flying after 65

[merlotsgood]

hi,
turning 65 this summer but need to continue to work, can you still fly executive jets after 65 or only as a "private pilot" to a jet owner?
any pointers apprecited like companies, etc

[Dufo]

You may fly privately :ok:

Age 65. The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 65 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport operations

[John Eacott]

However, in civilised countries we can continue with some restrictions such as more stringent medicals and more frequent flight tests :ok:

[ROSCO328]

I've had enough now!. Why should anyone who can still pass a medical be kicked to the curb! However I have been behind a few OAP drivers and most are simply dangerous :E.

[BALLSOUT]

The restriction at 65 is on commercial and public transport operations.
You can continue to be employed as a pilot and yes, you can continue to fly in the corporate sector.
You must not however be involved in commercial or public transport opps.
If a wealthy owner of a fancy business jet wants to pay you to fly him around, there is no age restriction.
You could also stay on in the employ of an airline and fly training flights, air tests and ferry flights. No restrictions there either.
Good Luck!

[captplaystation]

Crossing my fingers that I find myself (in 9 short years from now ) complaining about this rule.

If I can pass a PC & a medical, tell me why the Hell I should ground myself just to keep some whining "long term" FO (normally to be found on pprune whenever this is discussed ) happy.
In 30 odd years he will be whining again, the only difference being that he will be saying the same as me rather than the opposite.

It is a great gift in life to posses the ability to juxtaposition yourself into other peoples situations before jumping in with both feet, a shame so few of us ( & for the avoidance of doubt I include myself in this := ) have the ability to do so.

[RoyHudd]

Consult a good actuary, and see how the chances of strokes/infarcts/aneurysms
increase with age exponentially.
Then put yourself in the mind of a good litigation lawyer working for paying passengers.

There has to be a limit. For everyone.

[mona lot]

Why would you want to continue flying after 65, there is more to life :sad: Do you not have a pension :ugh:

[Mach E Avelli]

This subject has been debated ad nauseum in other threads. If you have a background in training or checking, it's easy enough to get simulator work. If you have been coasting along all these years as a line pilot, you won't find it so easy.
As for corporate, in my experience it's a bit of an old mate's club. Too many fragile egos there; don't want old crusty airline types urinating on their trees.

[Denti]

To be honest i dont want to fly commercially past 60. However to achieve that aim one has to start saving up early in ones career and delay that first Porsche order a couple years. But it is of course very much possible, even more so if there is an early retirement payout as part of your CLA.

[Wingswinger]

When I started I thought I'd be in well-heeled retirement at 55. When I was in my early 40s I knew I'd have to work until I was 60. By the time I reached my late 50s, 60 had become 65. With 65 on the horizon (I'm 63) I can see that if I want to continue to live well while I still can I need to work on in some capacity for a few years after retiring from commercial air transport. Such is the havoc wreaked on life-long financial plans by the various financial scandals, scams and general financial crookery and mismanagement over the last 15-20 years. It started with the endowment policy scandals, moved through G. Brown's fleecing of the pension industry and the banking collapse to the investment returns of today which are generally poor unless one is prepared to take some wild risks. It's some way short of where I'd hoped to be at age 63.

Fortunately I'm a TRI/TRE and it looks as though there will be plenty of work as an SFI/SFE. Of course I'll still fly for as long as I am able. Just not in CAT. My father was a pilot. I've been doing it these last 44 years. It's in my blood.

[MaximumPete]

I quit whilst I was ahead just after my 54th birthday and thirty five years of commercial flying.

[sky captain hero]

Good morning. I respect all the personal situation and I am pretty sure that it is easy to find someone (maybe me included) that need to fly professionally after 65 due to many reasons.
Generally speaking, I come from a civlized european country where people once used to have mandatory retirement at 60 but normally could get pension at 56. Thanks to the rise of mandatory retirement at 65 and teh rise of pension at 61 but ONLY for the new generations we had a lot of old fart retiring from a big airline at 56 and then goign to fly in the smaller airline till 65; these smart asses just offered their services at 2/3 of the normal retribution for captains because they had also the pension, often tax free because their residence was moved in Malta. I lost my job thanks to them, and with me other three captains who did not have pension and needed the full payment as per contract.
So I understand but for me 65 is more than enough and should be kept mandatory.
Kind regards.

[RetiredTooEarly]

Most pilots who want to fly beyond 65 either have something missing in their life or labour under the belief that they are viewed as a Walter Mitty with lots of hours.

The latter don't mean a thing these days. I have a friend who logged 36,000 on single engine aircraft doing circuits and bumps in General Aviation.

What a way to die!

Compare him to a guy who has say a total of a reasonably low 10,000 hours on jets and the latter kills the former in skills, experience etc.

Hours don't mean what they used to do, many Airlines now "weight" them for quality NOT quantity!

[partsvn]

I had to quit at 65 but have kept working in the sim. Keeps the brain active, no 18 hour slogs , salary to keep wife's horses in hay and my boat on the water. Life is good in the sandpit with sun shining and cold beer. Long may it continue. 70 this year

[Mach E Avelli]

Retiredtooearly, your point is?

As well as those who need to continue in employment to make it up to all their ex-wives for their wicked wicked ways, there are some who actually do enjoy flying. Sure, some of these characters have no life outside of aviation and personally I think that's sad because it does come to an end eventually. But plenty of us feel a need to maintain remaining neurons not yet destroyed by booze. Apparently, activities like flying are good for this, with the side benefit that money usually flows from selling a skill - to fund the very life you seem to think we don't have. Boats or motor bikes or vintage cars or hobby farms or whatever 'toys' tickle our pickles cost money. What's Walter Mitty got to do with those pursuits - he only imagined he was doing such ****.

Better all round for the economy if we do not raid that ever-diminishing pension fund until we really need to do so. Once that's gone it will be succeeding generations whose taxes will go to keeping us on life support. Someone said "when you retire, you die". Can't have that, can we?

[cavortingcheetah]

The myth that those over sixty five should give way to allow the young bucks to move up the cockpit food chain is a contradiction within itself.
One could as well argue that the lower age limit for an ATPL should be thirty five. Such a restriction would allow the younger pilot the opportunity for a career in the world of reality before he is allowed to escape into the cushioned and protected psychological confines of his aluminium womb substitution.
Furthermore, an ATPL age limit of this mark would place a safety check upon airline captains. It would ensure that they had reached a degree of life experience and maturity commensurate with the requirement to sit for long hours in a work environment with a totally inexperienced co-pilot. It would furthermore remove that bane of good CRM, the constant desire of the self inflated egotistical F/O to accelerate himself into the position of Commander long before he has the remotest capability for carrying out the responsibilities of that position.
I think that BALPA should seriously examine this proposal at the next meeting of the all important general council and recommend its adoption to British Airways and its franchise fleets with a view to influencing the CAAs of the world through such a sensible restrictive employment practice.

[seat 0A]

Wow, cheetah, you really seem to take it out on the copilots.
I have the good fortune to fly with mostly great copilots, who act professionally and who would be more than capable to become Captains. I feel very comfortable when I'm in the bunk, knowing that the aircraft is in their capable hands.
It would almost seem that somebody else's ego is self inflated, thinking that the responsibilities of the Commander are beyond the capabilities of mere copilots..

I hope to retire at 59, allowing others after me to get a shot at something approaching my lucky career.

[10Watt]

So.

36000hrs divided by 9hrs per working day.

Equals, l think, 4000 working days.

ln the air.

Unlikely.

[pukua]

800 hrs per year for 45 years unfortunately is not going to be that uncommon from now on if you keep your ass in a control seat for your entire career! :sad:

[stiglet]

seat 0A - The jobs of Commander and F/O are different and require different skills. I am glad you 'feel comfortable ... knowing the aircraft is in their capable hands' and so you should. Baring what should be more experience in the left seat there is no reason why the F/O should not be equally as good at handling the aircraft as the Captain. And, when you are tucked up in the bunk should something go wrong the F/O is there to cope admirably until you arrive to take control of the 'situation' and make the important decisions from then on; something the F/O is not yet licensed to do. Experience, training, qualifications, promotion and personality will eventually qualify them to be in your position. I concur with cavortingcheetah's view and feel that age and life experience do play a major part in preparing a F/O for command.

Three other points:
in my experience passengers generally have more confidence if the captain is a 'little more mature';
the older you get the less you have to prove and therefore the less 'ego' there is in the flight deck which generally makes for a more pleasant environment;
being the captain is not what everyone aspires to and there are many excellent F/O's who do not want / will not make captain but are just as much support and value in their operation as anyone else.

Personally I feel 65 is old enough to be in command of a commercial airliner.
Using your experience in the sim beyond that age may well benefit the next generation providing you don't lag behind as procedures and ideas move on.

[pilotchute]

A very senior Qantas Captain said once,

"It's not about the money it's just that I love to fly"

"Why don't you go and be a testing officer at a flying school then? You can pass on all that great experience you have and you get to go home every night"

"I don't love that sort of flying!"

[drfaust]

I don't think anyone should be flying commercially after 65 simply because the odds of them dying are too high. Even with a medical. At that kind of age and experience level, and if you are not a complete :mad:, I think we should use your particular skill-set in the simulator should one choose to make himself available. No need to be thundering around anymore. About the whole captaincy discussion; sigh and yawn. Done self-validating there gentlemen?


Just two cents from a lowly FO ;).

[clunckdriver]

drfaust, where did you get that from? I was involved in pilot loss of lic insurance for many years, here is some REAL data for you. During the above time I was made aware of nine in flight deaths of front end crews, average age 37 years. There were many in flight medical emergencies but I dont have the numbers handy, however I do recall there were very few amoungst the over fifty group, it seems that if one is cursed with bad genes they seem to cause problems between about 35 and 45, I will try to dig up the numbers. By the way, this was all in North America about the time obesity began to be a serious risk factor amoungst flight crews.

[cavortingcheetah]

It's a human right, to be able to work as long as possible, slaving in the salt mines in order to provide for the luxurious demands of fornicating ex wives and the equally luxurious but perhaps less fornicating demands of future ones.

[xray one]

I know we should all have a reasonable pension in place when we retire at 65, however, at the moment we are forced out of employment and won't receive a state pension until much later. In the future this gap will only increase.

Jobs outside aviation will be encouraged to work longer or have a good pension in place before pensionable age.

Years ago the 70 mph speed limit was introduced, the cars had crap brakes, infact crap everything. These days cars are so much better but we still have 70 mph...bodies and minds are also different these days.

[drfaust]

Clunkdriver,

That may well be the case. However, I am afraid the data you are providing is not exactly relevant to the discussion. Statistically there will always be a certain percentage of people who will die of whatever cause before their 65th year because they are, as you say, blessed with those type of genes.

However, I'm pretty sure that both of us will agree that in any population the odds of people dying on the job are dramatically higher if your population is exclusively above 65 compared to a population that is say 20 to 65 years old.

People get old. With old age, the risk of death increases. At some point it's time to retire I'm afraid, especially in an industry where the lives of people are dependent on you. I can understand that people might wish to continue working, but a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

[clunckdriver]

dfaust, yes, death and taxes are the only two certain things on earth, but I think with the human species its hard make firm rules as humans are all so different in many ways. I recently purchased an aircraft from a ninety six year old pilot, who drives every day in big city traffic {Toronto} who retired as an experimental Chief Test Pilot for a major aircraft builder and still enjoys doing aerobatics in his beutiful Chipmunk, and leads a very full and productive life, is also computer literate by the way, on the same trip I visited one of my contempories in his mid seventies who is a bloody wreck, so I think one has to go case by case, this of course requires tough medicals and and life style monitoring , although we had an "in house joke" when I flew the heavy metal that one shouldnt fly for three days after ones pilot medical as quite a few fell dead in this period! Myself? late seventies, sold our companies and aircraft, live on the familly farm, but still fly one corporate aircraft {two crew by the way} and fly our personel aircraft for fun, as does my wife, the only thing I find really tough is four AM starts, but then they were ever thus! By the way, as an end note our insurance underwriter would be charging over 75% more for a low time { less than 800 hours on type } 25 year old pilot, and this for less coverage, make what you will out of this, its still too much bloody money for a little 10,000lb twin!