Record Profit for Air NZ

[Ollie Onion]

Air New Zealand announces record profit - Business News | TVNZ (http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/air-new-zealand-announces-record-profit-5852662)

Enough Said!!

[The Green Goblin]

Well timed :D

Gotta love the kiwis!

[waren9]

wonder what it wouldve been if they hadnt ploughed their share of that 300m into virgin?

[Oakape]

300 million profit for ANZ & a 300 million loss for QF. Mmmmm. Must be a conspiracy theory in there somewhere. :ok:

[Kiwiconehead]

They must be telling fibs - everybody knows you can't make money as a legacy end of line carrier.............

[Roj approved]

They must be telling fibs - everybody knows you can't make money as a legacy end of line carrier.............

Using old technology 777's!!!:ugh:

[blubak]

well done to all,it takes all the workforce from the highest to the lowest paid to get a result like this along with having the right leadership,the right fleet & the belief that if things get tough in this ever changing business world you need to get on board & grow with the change-not retreat from it & leave your competitor(s) with what used to be yours.

[Condition 1]

The big difference between AIr NZ and QF? The three Js

No Jetstar
Better Jets
No Joyce

[Sunfish]

Flying ANZ this easter for a South Island tour that takes in Wanaka......All accommodation and motorhome booked and paid for via easy to use ANZ website.

Qantas? Who are they?

[thorn bird]

Lets not forget the Kiwi's have a much more business friendly regulation suite to work with as well. Contrary to the skulls waffle and outright lies in his submission to the trussed up inquiry most Kiwi industry people seem to have little trouble understanding them, unlike the unadulterated piffle CASA serves up in Australia and has the hide to claim is being used as a guide by regulators overseas.
Qantas will be gone inside ten years and the Australian public will be back in the two airline days of $300 one way fares Syd to ML, or cheap fares on foreign registered carries operating on foreign AOC's. As much as Qantas business model is unsustainable the ever increasing cost of over regulation in the pursuit of the safety myth is equally unsustainable.
I believe the Air New Zealand profit adequately illustrates this.

[Captain Garmin]

Kiwi's are a smart bunch who are pretty reliable at punching above their weight in tourism, IT and aviation (excluding the AirNZ acceleration of the decimation of Ansett) . Any ideas why?

CG

[er indoors]

Captain Garmin said,

Kiwi's are a smart bunch who are pretty reliable at punching above their weight in tourism, IT and aviation (excluding the AirNZ acceleration of the decimation of Ansett) . Any ideas why?

Yes, but we're not telling.....Like you said, we are a smart bunch.

[neville_nobody]

Lets not forget that this airline should be bankrupt. Massive government bailouts of businesses should not happen.

[empacher48]

I take it Neville, that you'd be more than happy with QANTAS going to the wall?

Yes there was a government bailout, but the government has been completely hands off the company since. To the point they sold down their share in the business last year.

[waren9]

except that nev if airnz went to the wall, it wouldve done massive damage to the nz economy.

the govt of the day obviously thought a bailout was the lesser of 2 evils.

[XPT]

yes but only 1 airline in NZL (not counting Junkstar of course).

We've always had 2 & no major loss when AN fell over & boosted VA overnight.

[747-419]

Shame Keating did'nt let ANZ fly domestically in OZ as the then Labor party promised then reneged all those years ago

Now ANZ has successfully screwed both the Aussie airlines from that era.

[XPT]

NZ must be picking up lots of Australia flying to LAX, SFO & YVR. Understandable out of BNE & MEL & to lesser extend ADL & PER.

[Kiwiconehead]

NZ must be picking up lots of Australia flying to LAX, SFO & YVR.

My sis flew AKL-SFO with Air NZ last year and there were a lot of thru passengers from Australia on the flight.

[TBM-Legend]

Don't forget who really owns Air NZ...

3 November 2001
Air New Zealand has joined the growing list of airlines around the world that have either collapsed or are on the brink. The country’s Labour-led government was forced to step in last month with a $NZ885 million rescue package to prevent the airline being dragged under by the failure of its Australian subsidiary Ansett. Having purchased an 83 percent stake in Air NZ, the government is now engaged in extensively restructuring the airline in a bid to keep it afloat.
Prime Minister Helen Clark argued that the move was essential to the national interest. A national carrier was needed, she said, to ensure a measure of control and certainty over such vital economic activities as tourism, overseas trade and domestic and international travel. The country’s other main airline, Qantas New Zealand, a privately-owned local franchise of the Australian carrier Qantas, collapsed in April with the loss of 1,100 jobs and debts of over $NZ20 million.

[empacher48]

Yep, Air NZ is 53% owned by the NZ Government, now as it was sold down by the National government along with numerous power companies.

How much more money did the NZ Government put into Air NZ since that bailout? About $0.

Stands on its own two feet, gets no special benefits from the government here, has to pay full taxes in NZ and even pay the government dividends just like any other shareholder. There is no government debt assurances, discounts on fuel, landing fees, airways charges or CAA charges. They are the same charges as any other airline in NZ get charged, except for Jetstar. They don't pay NZCAA charges, security charges.

The main difference is post bailout, they have found exceptional CEOs and board members who have done a great job transforming the airline to what it is today. They have been smart, innovative and open to opportunities as they have presented themselves to run an efficient business.

[TBM-Legend]

I agree that the Board of Qantas is the sub-standard problem here. More interested in the title than tightly running the show.

However the point is that Air NZ is majority Govt owned and therefore the banks are comfortable...it was baled out from some bad Board and management decisions years ago...

[slamer.]

sounding familiar ...!

[27/09]

empacher48: How much more money did the NZ Government put into Air NZ since that bailout? About $0.

A better question would be how much money has the NZ government got back from Air NZ since the bailout, both in dividends and their recent share sell down? I'd say they've done pretty well.

[Kiwiconehead]

A better question would be how much money has the NZ government got back from Air NZ since the bailout, both in dividends and their recent share sell down? I'd say they've done pretty well.

Some NZ$360m from the last 20% sell down - not bad.

[plainmaker]

Quite clearly TBM you do not understand the concept of ownership of shares. Shareholders do not guarantee an organisation's debts. You seem to think that by the NZ Govt holding the shares, that this transcends into some form of debt guarantee that lenders feel happy with.
Wrong. Shareholders provide the capital, are there as investors, and when you look at the returns the NZ Govt has extracted from it's ANZ shareholding, you would have to say it was quite an astute move in retrospect.
Glass half full / Glass half empty. The ANZ board, under their Corporations Law obligation, are the ones charged with ensuring the shareholder's interests are maintained. No safety net for them about back-up guarantees.
Which just goes to show - not only do they appear to be running a better airline operation, but they also seem to have a smarter Board. perhaps QF should take a look at how they are doing it - they had the chance a few years ago when they too held an ANZ shareholding.

[neville_nobody]

The point is in so called free markets you go broke. You fail. Then someone else can start afresh.
Ansett was let to go broke, yet Air Nz gets a bailout then comes in and starts flying in our airspace. It's ridiculous.

[Gravox]

Typical tall poppy syndrome from some of the Aussies here.

Hopefully Qantas can get rid of their board and start over, and wouldn't be a great if the government come in to bail out Qf, that way we can stop hearing how NZ was given a hand out blah blah blah. :rolleyes:

Good work Air NZ what a great result. :D

[cnsnz]

Ansett was going broke through a similar situation as QFs current troubles, poor management and decisions with aircraft etc.
Air NZ was flying in Aus airspace a long time before Ansett went broke so a pointless comment grow up and stop trying to bag a company that's well run.

[Potsie Weber]

Quite clearly TBM you do not understand the concept of ownership of shares. Shareholders do not guarantee an organisation's debts. You seem to think that by the NZ Govt holding the shares, that this transcends into some form of debt guarantee that lenders feel happy with.
Wrong. Shareholders provide the capital, are there as investors, and when you look at the returns the NZ Govt has extracted from it's ANZ shareholding, you would have to say it was quite an astute move in retrospect.

Almost. The Export-Import Bank of the United States provides cheap credit facilities to Boeing customer airlines, it is designed to assist US company exports. Generally, these airlines have to government backed/owned or investment credit rated. ANZ has used the Export-Import Bank for aircraft financing.

[Massey058]

Almost. The Export-Import Bank of the United States provides cheap credit facilities to Boeing customer airlines, it is designed to assist US company exports. Generally, these airlines have to government backed/owned or investment credit rated. ANZ has used the Export-Import Bank for aircraft financing.

Generally perhaps, but the significant support that EXIM has provided in financing Lion Air's large Boeing order book (a privately held, Indonesian airline competing with majority state owned Garuda Indonesia that in all likelihood would have an 'interesting' credit rating) I suggest happens a fair bit.

Got to love the "free market" bahahaha.

But good on Air NZ, it's hard to knock Fyfe in how he took the batton from Norris and kept things moving forward. But I think Luxon really sees a plausible growth strategy for the 'end of the line carrier' and I think it's exciting times ahead.

[Not Nightowl]

Nev, air nz flying domestically in aussie airspace yet? No, except as owner ship in Virgin.
Ansett were flying domestically in NZ decades ago.

Keating stopped air nz flying domestically in aussie when he crapped all over the Open Skies Agreement to protect who??

In desperation air nz made a bad decision and bought into a dead duck called Ansett, top heavy with internal rip off ( remember the story about 300 staff in the dept which handled rental vehicles for Ansett staff on leave?).

[Not Nightowl]

747-419.....well said!

[sfoxs]

Hey nobody we'd gladly send your 9 VH a320s home out of "Our" airspace.
How ridiculous is that!

[Tosspott]

Well isn't Air New Zealand shares about to be floated or maybe sometime in the near future.Purpose the Government to get there money back.So if you have Million in spare cash would you put into this Airline or any Airline.So is the balance sheet going to show anything other than a profit.If you looked at and were able to ask would you find that future costs such as Engine overhauls and Airframe checks are included.So what are there liabilities.I have not looked closely have you.They want there money back.One of the problems today is Standard dont start from the bottom up they start from the top down.So what did the NZ Government say to the accountants.Have you really found a real Gem here or are we looking at fools Gold

[Galdom]

Air NZ shares have been on the NZX for a very long time

[mostlytossas]

Since ANZ is now so profitable perhaps they would like to pay back the $millions to the Aussie taxpayer and travelers who had to pay out the Ansett workers redundancy payments after ANZ walked away from their obligations.Quote "we owe those workers nothing" after the Ansett collapse. Easy to make profits when you don't pay your bills.

[Oakape]

Since ANZ is now so profitable perhaps they would like to pay back the $millions to the Aussie taxpayer and travelers who had to pay out the Ansett workers redundancy payments after ANZ walked away from their obligations.

Sorry, but the taxpayer & travellers didn't pay a cent to the Ansett workers. The government 'lent' the money to the receivers to immediately cover the statutory entitlements & then took first dibs at any money raised by the receivers to pay the 'loan' back. They then put ticket tax in place to cover any shortfall if the receivers didn't raise enough cash. However, the receivers ended up paying the entire amount back, so the government put the ticket tax money into general revenue.

Neat cash grab, with the Ansett workers as the fall guys. And the bulk of the Australian public thinks that they paid for the Ansett worker's entitlements to this day! By the way, the receivers fell short in their asset sales & Ansett workers did not receive all the money they were entitled to under the various wages agreements.

[mostlytossas]

Either way ANZ did not pay what they should have. So again,it is easy to make a profit when you don't pay your debts.

[waren9]

didnt know that oakape, thanks.

workers got paid but some will always find a reason to be angry i guess.

[billyt]

So if you held shares in company that went broke and could not pay it's debts, you would ask how much you owed to the creditors.

Not likely I think.

[empacher48]

That is why they are all limited liability companies. The shareholders are not responsible for the debts or legal issues of the company.

I'm sure whatever legal statute is used in Australia would be similar to NZ in that regard.

[mostlytossas]

So am I to think that in Kiwiland it is ok for say Holden,Ford or Toyota to decide as the Australian arm of the business can't make money they should be able to just walk away from any of their employees entitlements. Let the Government (taxpayer) loan them the money then recoup it from future car sales from other brands?
Very interesting business ethics in NZ I would say.
By the way I am not an ex Ansett worker so have no axe to grind but remember well the fiasco when Ansett went down.

[waren9]

tossas youre confusing moral with legal. and your example is not analogous. debts dont go up the chain in aus either same as nz in that regard

and oakape already explained how folks got paid. the point is moot.

[c100driver]

So Tossa that would be like Ansett Aussie paying the bills left over the failure of Ansett NZ, or Qantas paying the bills of the failed Qantas NZ?

Guess what, that didn't happen! It is business!

[Oakape]

When a company buys another company, they don't necessarily merge them. Sometimes they are kept as separate entities, as I believe ANZ & Ansett were. Synergies are sort for cost savings & the profits flow to the company that did the acquiring (the owners). But all the income, expenses & liabilities are quarantined in the individual company.

ANZ may have had a moral obligation to look after Ansett & its staff when things went bad (people will have different opinions on this), but they had no legal obligation to do so. And in order to save themselves, they wrote off the acquisition & left the company to fend for itself. Sort of like ignoring pleas to purchase more shares in a defunct company (throwing good money after bad) & dumping the currently owned, useless share certificates in the trash.

[maui]

Anyway you are all venting against the wrong entities.


Ansett was a dying dog before ANZ bought in.


It had been sucked dry by those vermin Murdoch and Abeles.


ANZ's only crime was not doing a proper due diligence, and should be reamed for that.


Good on you ANZ, good to see someone prove the lie to Joyce's continual wailing and gnashing. SLIC indeed.

Maui

[Kiwiconehead]

ANZ's only crime was not doing a proper due diligence, and should be reamed for that.

It wasn't so much that, as Cushing and Brierly having a cunning plan that if they bought Ansett (which Singapore Airlines were looking at) then Singapore Airlines would buy Brierly's chunk of Air NZ to get Ansett.

Unfortunately they proved to only be the smartest guys in the room - and their cunning plan failed and we all know the rest.

[deadhead]

Yup ... "Sir" Selwyn Cushing gets knighted after a long struggle where he nearly failed to destroy 16,000 families. And, (the cheek!) getting that poor boorstard Toomey to fall on his sword a mere 5 minutes after Toomey opened the door to his office for the first time. But I digress. These are much happier times :rolleyes: