To all Qantas Staff

[Jack Ranga]

It can't be easy sitting and waiting for the 'announcement' tomorrow. Knowing that due to a corporate thug's incompetence and psychopathic behaviour, getting paid millions of dollars, may make you redundant. Thoughts are with you. Everything changes tomorrow...........

[nitpicker330]

Ditto to all everyone in Qantas.

[Fliegenmong]

What Jack said! :ok: ;)

Remember it has TA's and LC's blessing!:ugh::{

[Ken Borough]

I wouldn't describe Alan Joyce a corporate thug but my thoughts are with all those loyal and faithful servants who, under extreme pressure, keep the good ship Qantas going, day in, day out. Without its dedicated staff, Qantas would be a mere shell of a company. Good luck and good fortune! :ok:

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Well said. Good night, good luck and fly safe.

[Tankengine]

Thank you all!:ok:
I will be only one of many hundred crew flying through the night after tomorrow's announcements.:ouch:
I am sure many are more stressed now than when we were locked out.:ugh:
The others are just over it and couldn't give a **** anymore.:ugh::p

[The The]

Best of luck everyone. Look out for your colleagues. I am optimistic, when one door shuts, another one opens.

[LeeJoyce]

Will be fun on the staff bus listening to all the angry workers....


Wait... Just like any other day...

[wiggy]

Yep, a +1 to what Jack said, good luck fellas.

[smylie]

Best wishes to all at qantas Our thoughts are with you today.

[SilverSleuth]

Yes good luck all.
Is it true what the papers are saying in this mornings paper that pilots were last night offered counselling.

[Ollie Onion]

Yes guys and girls, good luck to all. I never like to see anyone under such stress and threat with regards to their job. I have been through this at another large airline and it is not pleasant. Hang in there!

[WorthWhat]

At last -an Analyst with common sense.Qantas Airways will need to prove to investors its future cost-cutting efforts will be more successful than previous moves, CLSA analyst Scott Ryall says. “When its plans are released, our focus will be on differentiating between genuine efficiencies versus whether there are offsetting costs and risks [such as from outsourcing].”

Mr Ryall said the airline should think about sharing the benefits of the restructuring with remaining staff, given many already did not appear to be engaged or aligned with the management’s strategy, and morale could worsen after a round of job cuts.

“We cannot believe there is not a way to negotiate a win-win between staff and management, for example, in the form of lower wages in return for equity, that would better align both parties in facing up to the challenges faced by Qantas.”

Both sides would face the burden of restructuring and it was only logical for them to share the upside as well, although Mr Ryall noted there was probably a question of trust.
To those soon to leave Qantas employment, my sincere condolences.

To those who get to make a choice about staying, my very best wishes.

[Worrals in the wilds]

What Jack said.
Good luck all, people are thinking of you and wishing you all the best. :)

[Oakape]

in the form of lower wages in return for equity

I'm not sure many would accept this arrangement if it was ever offered, as they would see what would be effectively further cuts in pay, as their 'equity' was eroded by the falling share price, due to further poor management by the current team.

[Oakape]

Good luck everyone. I've been there, done that & it still sucks many years later.

[Aisle Dweller]

Good luck to all of you today!

I wrote yesterday on the Qantas Face Book site that you guys, the pilots, engineers, flight attendants, ground staff are the reason I fly Qantas and not Alan Joyce. I further wrote that the only person who should loose his job today is Alan Joyce. Guess what? My entry was deleted within the hour!

What a sad company Qantas has become. A total disregard for his loyal employees and customers!

Today I feel like returning my FF card and QF Club memebership, but this want help you and therefore I will not do it.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Thank you all. Even though this forum can sometimes be a pretty unedifying spectacle, you realise at times like this that there are a lot of very nice people out there. The contrast with what's coming out of Coward St is very much appreciated. :ok:

[Harbour Dweller]

I echo the sentiments of Jack's post. Good luck ladies and gentlemen of QF.

Lets not forget all the innocence families and children that will be going to their workplaces, schools and uni today coping with the unnecessary stress at home.

This has been brought on by AJ, the QF Board and past corporate psychopaths that should be held accountable for their criminal performances in the past. Today should be their judgement day, not the workers that make QF and its rich history.

Keep your heads high :ok:

[tail wheel]

Qantas confirms 5000 jobs to go (http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/newsbusiness/aappr/8806379/qantas-confirms-5000-jobs-to-go)

The article does not indicate whether the CEO is included in the redundancies.

Interesting comparison: Air New Zealand profit leaves Qantas in the shade (http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/air-new-zealand-profit-leaves-qantas-in-the-shade-20140227-33j29.html)

[airsupport]

Yes, good luck to all involved. :ok:

Just watching AJ live now, a reporter actually asked him was HIS job safe, apparently it is. :(

[Jabawocky]

Ailing Australian airline Qantas has announced a big half-year loss and thousands of job cuts, but Mr Luxon says Air NZ is "not fixated on our competitors".

He says having a commercial engine to the business, developing markets, improving operations and investing in their people is a critical dimension for a successful airline.

And Mr Luxon says the airline is continuously working on simplification and taking complexity out of its business which is being run as an independent commercial entity.



This sums it all up really. Dont fixate on competitors. Develop markets. Improve operations and investing in your people. Work on simplification and remove complexity.

Some of the complexity is government imposed and we as a nation need to push back on some of the BS, but the fat of middle management needs attention.

Hmmm B787 and B777......Qantas? :ugh:

Clearly this CEO and the last have had a completely different approach to the two at QF. The results speak for themselves. The above notes from the article also sound like the words of Herb Kelleher.

[Fantome]

With the company rapidly approaching its centenary you cannot but help wonder what will be there then to celebrate.

Many many 'innocent bystanders' not directly affected, looking on from the wings, so to speak, have in their thoughts today all who have been mercilessly shafted and those who grimly wait for the other shoe to drop.

[Pinky the pilot]

Concur with Jack and others.

The article does not indicate whether the CEO is included in the redundancies.

An interesting thought Tailwheel.

Just watching AJ live now, a reporter actually asked him was HIS job safe, apparently it is.

What a pity.:*

[XPT]

not really a fair comparison comparing QF loss to NZ profit.

NZ had to be saved by NZL govt, as it's the only airline.

We do have VA here & we all managed to survive AN collapse.

[Spanner Turner]

We do have VA here & we all managed to survive AN collapse.

Mate, not everyone survived the Ansett collapse.
Indeed, many lives were lost!

[Willie Nelson]

Fleet and Network

After a detailed review of network and schedules, the Qantas Group will re-assign aircraft to better match demand, defer aircraft orders, dispose of aircraft, increase fleet utilisation and exit under-performing routes.

Qantas Domestic will increase utilisation of narrow-body aircraft, allowing Airbus A330 aircraft in the domestic market to concentrate solely on East-West services and peak services on the Sydney-Melbourne-Brisbane triangle.

A330-200s will be freed up to enter the Qantas International fleet as replacement aircraft, helping to accelerate the retirement of older Boeing 747 aircraft.

All six of Qantas International’s non-reconfigured B747s will be retired ahead of schedule, by the second half of FY16. Nine reconfigured B747s with A380-standard interiors will remain.

Qantas’ final two B737-400s have been retired this month and all B767s will be retired by the third quarter of FY15, resulting in cost and passenger benefits from fleet simplification.

Qantas International’s eight remaining A380 orders will be deferred, with an ongoing review of delivery dates to meet potential future requirements. Schedule changes will allow maximum use of Qantas’ current 12 A380s.

The final three of 14 Jetstar B787-8s on firm order will be deferred.

Jetstar’s A320 order book has been restructured.


In total, more than 50 aircraft will be deferred or sold.
By FY16, the Group’s passenger fleet will have been simplified from 11 aircraft types to seven aircraft types, with an average age of eight years.

Over the next 12 months, Qantas will exit under performing routes and make aircraft changes on certain routes to better match capacity to demand.

[The The]

Just watching AJ live now, a reporter actually asked him was HIS job safe, apparently it is

Ross Greenwood asked him this question directly. Joyce was very evasive and gave a long winded answer about how good management are. I got the opinion his job is very much on the line.

Would it really be possible for all the senior execs to escape the cull. Surely there has to be a fall guy or two.

[mickjoebill]

ABC business report that the share price fell a further 5 cents during the press conference when it became clear that there was to be no change at the top.


Mickjoebill

[XPT]

wouldn't it make sense for QF to do some of their LAX flights via somewhere like NAN & do a splash & dash especially in low season?

eg. MEL/LAX is a long sector. There's no FJ daytime flight MEL/NAN, so if a QF 330 were to fly MEL/NAN in daylight, FJ could free up some 737's.

Only catch with this is UA are flying 787's nonstop MEL/LAX from 28 OCT, but lots of Australians won't fly UA as considered airline of last resort.

It would also give an option for a Fiji stopover.

By stopping briefly in NAN, QF could carry full load without any weight restrictions.

OR one of 2 daily SYD/LAX's go via NAN ?

OR introduce CBR/NAN/LAX ? (wouldn't have to be daily. If someone wanted to fly CBR/LAX or v.v. on other days, they simple transit BNE, SYD or MEL, as they have to currently)

No one from CBR wants to transit bloody terrible SYD.

FJ from memory is back in profit.

QF owns something like 47% of FJ.

>>>
A330-200s will be freed up to enter the Qantas International fleet as replacement aircraft, helping to accelerate the retirement of older Boeing 747 aircraft.
>>>

[Lodown]

Customers will not take an intermediate stopover if another airline is flying non-stop. Some will, but most won't, making a viable route non-viable. You're correct about no one wanting to transfer via Sydney. The 787 is a hub-buster, taking out the need for intermediate stopovers. It also allows increased frequency of flights. One A380 per day with a lot of passengers on a route by one company can be more than matched with 2 or 3 flights per day in a 787. Other options being equal, customers will vote with their bums to less crowded terminals and multiple travel time options.

[bodybag]

Does anybody think that Australias militant Industrial relations law and Union greed have had anything to do with this? I certainly do.
There are a lot of staff at Qantas that get paid a lot of money to do next to nothing (and by that I mean literally next to nothing). We've seen this all before.
I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of other significant factors at play.. No doubt that management in recent years has been woeful but you've got your head in the sand if you truly believe there is no dead wood at Qantas (from the top to the bottom!)

[XPT]

how long does a splash & dash take ?

Add 60-80 min to total duration from SYD to LAX ?

If it means being about to carry more freight & less fuel & being able to offer some cheaper fares, surely would be worth looking at.

NZ does it via AKL. Plenty of Australians fly NZ to U.S. mainland.

FJ does it via NAN now, but is not a quick stop.

SYD/NAN/LAX total transit on FJ now is approx 17 hours 40 mins with 3 hours on ground in NAN. Take out 2 hours & you're down to 15 hours 40 mins, whereas a QF SYD/LAX nonstop is 2 hours less.

Thinking further ahead, it would also mean that QF could reintroduce SFO & YVR (& other ports such as DEN) much like NZ does out of AKL.

Many Australians go to YVR via AKL & via NAN would be shorter.

It would be 1 way of offering cheap fares & getting ff points, or instead make one of the 2 daily SYD/LAX flights a JQ 787, so all those who are price sensitive fly JQ, but offer them some ff points, maybe 50%.

[maggot]

XPT, what are you talking about? SYD/MEL-LAX is all A380s and the majority of the punters would tell you to stick an unnecessary transit where the sun don't shine. It may add a small amount of time but it's a PITA for the punter.

[500N]

Agree. Direct far more preferable.

Price is not everything to quite a few people.



Joyce is getting a bit of a lashing in The Age.

[XPT]

plenty of punters fly FJ direct on their now daily SYD/LAX on their new 332's !!!

FJ is back in profit.

Sure their wages are lower, but they probably pay more for fuel.


+ plenty of punters fly via AKL on NZ, via HNL on HA & on TN via PPT or even via China or Taiwan.

+ lot more fly JQ SYD/HNL & then get on any number of carriers to mainland including LCC like Allegiant, which them gives them the option of a stopover.

Where do you think all the former QF pax to USA have gone ? They haven't all gone to VA.

Some have gone to DL, but only out of SYD.

Even poor old UA MEL/LAX is via SYD until 28OCT.

[1a sound asleep]

"Jetstar’s A320 order book has been restructured."::ugh: Lets just gloss over the huge losses over at Jetstar

[XPT]

500N you'rs getting confused between direct & nonstop.

>>>Agree. Direct far more preferable.

Price is not everything to quite a few people.
>>>

& as cost of living has gone up in Australia, price is becoming more important, which is why QF are losing out.

Look at holidays & peak seasons,when load factors are very high & airlines make money to carry them over low seasons.

A few hundred dollars, times a family of 4 to 6 people, makes a huge difference.

It's only business types & public servants, who don't pay their own fares, who don't care about costs, but have seen plenty of businesses since GFC, cut back from business class to economy, bypassing premium economy.

+ what we call the wank factor.

Some pax out there, love to tell all, they flew bus cl, but fail to mention it was not on nonstops.

You can fly bus cl SYD/LAX return for $4k or less but not on QF.

[Toruk Macto]

I can remember we operated one stop to a destination . Many preferred to drive 2-3 hours to go direct in 75 mins than drive 30 mins for a 2 hour flight . Go figure ?

[500N]

xpt

Maybe I am eating confused but to me direct is Mel to LAX and Non stop is Melb to LAX. Mel - Syd - LAX is one stop and a PITA one at that. I'd fly via Aukland before Sydney and Have done so.

Not sure where you get $4k from apart from the most expensive fares.

Mel - LAX return, QF93 and QF94 is sub $2000 if you book right, A380 aircraft. A bit more if you go up a level. Unless you tell me otherwise, that is Qantas. Those figures are for April / May this year, 2 months out.

[snoop doggy dog]

CEO earnings last 5 years $3.66M, $2.9M, $5.0M, $2.28M, 3.3 M!!!

Must be tough to survive in Sydney on $3.3M AUD or just under $63,500 per farkin week!!! :mad: This is totally disgraceful!

We've all heard the rubbish over the past few years, Qantas workers are overpaid compared to 3rd world countries and how little the CEO is paid in comparison to the wealthiest countries!

Workers don't need the over management that airlines instill on their workforces. Engage the staff and get them on side. Look what Fife done with Air New Zealand.

All the best the Qantas staff. :ok:

[XPT]

500N

corrections to your comments below.

>>>
Maybe I am eating confused but to me direct is Mel to LAX and Non stop is Melb to LAX. Mel - Syd - LAX is one stop and a PITA one at that. I'd fly via Aukland before Sydney and Have done so.

Not sure where you get $4k from apart from the most expensive fares.

Mel - LAX return, QF93 and QF94 is sub $2000 if you book right, A380 aircraft. A bit more if you go up a level. Unless you tell me otherwise, that is Qantas. Those figures are for April / May this year, 2 months out.
>>>


QF used to fly BNE/AKL/LAX which was direct BNE/LAX.

FJ fly SYD/NAN/LAX which is direct SYD/LAX.

$4K OR LESS SYD/LAX/SYD business class not economy.

[Pinky the pilot]

CEO earnings

I know that is the phrase used when describing such things but I prefer the word pay instead of 'earnings.'

They might be paid several million per year, but they don't earn it!:ugh:

[XPT]

Joyce is paid too much, but paying him nothing does not solve things.

Everyone at QF is paid far too much + job demarkation.

Seriously, QF flight attendants won't even clean up cabin or toilets.

"No that's cleaners job."

[booglaboy]

Go back to your train set xpt. You know not what you talk.
Wages are not the issue at qantas. Nor unions or out-dated work practices or global conditions, geographic location, Aussie dollar or fuel costs etc etc.
Ask a current staff member what the truth is and you will discover the agenda from the top is wrong and has been for over 5 years. Joyce, Clifford and board must go. They are complete failures with no vision, intelligence or or any coherent plan

[XPT]

boy oh boy r u in denial or what ?

[Aisle Dweller]

QF has to re-introduce flights to mainland Europe, especially the QF 5 service to Frankfurt via Singapore or Bangkok but not on EK planes! , start up services to KL and HCMC.

[XPT]

FRA was a financial disaster wasn't it ?

+ EK has most ports covered in Europe.

[King William III]

Hi XPT....is that you Olivia??

Say hi to your Uncle Greg, haven's seen him since you helped manage him out of the business two redundancies ago.....

Sheesh

[canonball1]

Joyce needs to push much harder. The sad thing is workers feel they should have a say over the capital. QF and all businesses should be able to pay as low as the market dictates and get rid of workers at any moment to maximize the efficiency of capital. Workers will never understand risk if they are not forced to face it like the holders of capital. A sleek and powering airline offers those that survive any cull a better life going forward. There is no security in failure.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
I watched the whole Joyce performance, and what surprised me was the almost total lack of real detail. A good proportion of what Joyce had to say was little more than generalities, already flagged.

Other than shrink, there was no credible plan to really address the problem Qantas has in the market, or address the issue of having the wrong aircraft, versus the growing fleets of B777/787.

The fuel efficiencies of modern aircraft cannot be ignored --- except by Qantas.

The availability of a few hundred pilots will be a bonanza for the Gulf carriers, and rapidly expanding Chinese airlines.

Tootle pip!!

[dragon man]

Well said. Joyce is like a rabbit in the headlights. Stunned. He's on a bike pedalling and knows that if he stops he will fall off. He has to be seen to doing something in the future. The trouble is this is not a creditable plan. The fact is he has no idea what to do. Where is Clifford? Doesn't want the **** to rub off I guess. When will the major shareholders wake up to the fact this bloke is a prize goose.

[Capetonian]

I spent a few months in Sydney about 12 years ago doing some contract work for Qantas. Happy times, although it took me a little while to get used to the Aussie way of doing things, very direct and to the point. I also found that if you made even a small effort to be sociable, it was more than repaid, but if you did nothing, you got nothing. I met a few new immigrants from ZA who said the Aussies are unfriendly. I found nothing could be further from the truth.

Sad times now for Qantas and I hope you all have better times ahead, and to those of you with whom I'm still in touch, you'll get an email from me.

Can AJ really be as much of a moron as he appears whenever he opens his mouth? Maybe they should replace him with MoL to turn the airline around.

[pull-up-terrain]

.Everyone at QF is paid far too much + job demarkation.

Well, for a start, I know i can earn more working overseas as a LAME especially in the Middle East and Asia, I know that's the same case for pilots as well. Especially with the Australian dollar at its current price, there are quite a lot of gigs paying the equivalent of $30k to $40k AUD more than what I earn at Qantas and in some cases it's without doing 12 hour night shifts! I should add that is factoring in housing and medical allowances.

If you compare apples with apples, in some cases virgin and jetstar staff are paid more than Qantas staff in some positions, and in other cases virgin and jetstar are within 5% of Qantas staff (which is barely anything).

Unfortunately when the media publish these "supposed" $500k pilot incomes and $200k LAME incomes, they forget to mention that 99% of pilots and LAME's would be earning a **** load less than that.

[SPEEDI]

Dont mean to start a massive pay dispute but are second officers on close to $200k at QF? Where in airlines like ANZ they start on a respectable $90k?

[Oakape]

Dont mean to start a massive pay dispute but are second officers on close to $200k at QF? Where in airlines like ANZ they start on a respectable $90k?

Maybe, but what did the QF S/O's start on? Apples with apples please.

[noip]

This is not a good time to start picking at people working at QF.

CB ... troll or moron .. pick one. You have NFI what you are talking about. If you want to follow a religion, I suggest you go to church ... from the sound of your rant, Westbo Baptist would be a good choice.

Speedi ... once again .. you have NFI what you are talking about. (yes it was only a question, but not a good time to ask it). I am sick of people picking on S/Os ... NO S/O earns a higher rate than ANY F/O at QF. All the vindictive attacks on S/Os simply do not reflect what they do. In any other airline they would be F/Os ... (and QF F/Os would in many cases be Captains).

And no, I do not choose to justify what I or any other QF Pilot earns. If anyone wishes to fall into an alternate reality ... GT offers all you are after.

HOWEVER ... no matter what your slant. The truth is the truth and unless we all recognise what IS the truth ... it will be even worse for all.

Pity a few people (including politicians) don't recognise that.


N

[SPEEDI]

noip... Time to get back on the meds mate I havent made a post in 3 years so your "once again" comment made little to no sense and of course I have NFI that's why I ASKED a question, Genius!

Oakape answered my simple question with a head on his/her shoulders, I was under the impression they were starting on such a high salary. So Oakape thanks for answering it like a respectable individual.

On a different note to all those that will be affected by this my thoughts go out to you.

[noip]

Speedi,

Nothing against you but the "once again" was the reference to the second part of my reply .. and as I qualified later I recognised your question. The S/O thing has come up time and time again and it gets REALLY tiresome.

As I also said .. this is not a good time for people to crap on about Mythical rivers of gold that QF people supposedly have the secret key to ....


N

[ditzyboy]

XPT -

I am a Qantas flight attendant and can think of at least two occasions where I have tidied the cabin in Darwin due to cleaners being busy due to multiple arrivals at the same time, thus minimising costs to the company and delays to customers. I have also done it once on a morning flight out of Sydney where the overnight clean was overlooked and fleet presentation sent ONE cleaner to do it.

We are also responsible for the cleanliness and presentation of the toilets in flight.

I think you will find that we generally don't clean cabins on the ground as a team of cleaners is on hand and paid to do it!!

Your comments are ill founded and offensive.

[Ertimus]

Qantas has never recovered since Geoff Dixon left.

[Valdiviano]

Qantas IS a listed company, EVOLVE with the times or DISSOLVE.

[noip]

Ditzyboy,

Fwiw ... I know how hard you guys work.

+1 from a guy up the front.


N

ps ... Valdwhatever ... wrong forumn .. you are after the amateur CEO's forumn ....

[emal140]

Ertimus
Wasn't it Dixon who put Joyce there....?
E

[Valdiviano]

noip

You are wrong, Qantas is not a toy for pilots, flight attendants, ground staff or engineers.
Good night, DREAMERS :ugh:

[noip]

Valdwhatever,

And that is where YOU don't get it. The STAFF at QF WANT it to be successful. They KNOW that it is not easy. This has nothing to do with a plaything. They WANT to finish their careers knowing that they contributed to something that was remarkable and successful.

As I said before ... you are after the Amateur CEO's forumn....

N

[bodybag]

Offensive to you ditzyboy..
unfortunately not to the majority of your co-workers.
Qantas has a very real problem with its workforce.. A whole lot of rott and they feed off each other!
I'm sick of hearing Qantas staff at large blaming it on management for not engaging them properly.. seriously??
A lot of egotistical, lazy and greedy people.
Unless they lose some of their trouble makers and make the remainders realise that they DON'T have a job for life they are on borrowed time.
I'm so sick of hearing excuses.. They start with AJ and they continue through the entire workforce.

[noip]

Amazing ... a thread that started out to support QF staff and the trolls are out in force.

Bodybag .. what an appropriate name ...

N

[TIMA9X]

Fwiw ... I know how hard you guys work.

+1 from a guy up the front.


N

ps ... Valdwhatever ... wrong forumn .. you are after the amateur CEO's forumn ...Spot on Noip, sad that some people want to make comments like above, particularly on a day like today and it's a pilots forum...

I wonder how some posters on here would have handled this car sized situation..?

The pilots & cabin crew did a wonderful job that day, in the true spirit of Qantas, just ask anyone who was on that flight! :ok:

GY0LdtfA98A


A bit of respect please....

[Square Bear]

I wonder how some posters on here would have handled this car sized situation..?

Probably like an overseas Airline Pilot handled US Airways Flight 1549.

Whilst I understand the emotion and note that you politely ask for a "bit of respect", but please realise that respect is a two way street.

"Best Practice" is not the sole domain of your airline.

However, all the best...

[AEROMEDIC]

"Best Practice" is not the sole domain of your airline.

Au Contraire,

Best practice should be the sole domain of EVERY airline.

[bodybag]

noip,
You are genuinely delusional..
Assuming you work for Qantas.. I can tell you now, you are not special.. You were led to believe that sometime ago but you weren't then and you definitely aren't now.
You are an over-paid, under-worked burden on a publicly listed company.. (Generally speaking)
What you have had (collectively) in the past is not sustainable in this environment.
Don't get me wrong.. I think that AJ should go.. He has failed in his job.
However.. Anyone that tries to manage Qantas with its current inflexible, over entitled and egotistical workforce (backed by unrealistic, greedy unions) is going to struggle before they've even stepped up to the plate.
The workers at Qantas have the ability to turn this around.. but I guarantee they won't. They are too greedy, too selfish. It's easier to blame everyone else..
WAKE UP! It's not the 1980's / 90's anymore..

[Wally Mk2]

'baggy' yr in the minority here thank God but having said that there is some realization to be had here to.
The stable working world as we once knew it is fast finishing, the good 'ole days as they say are coming to an end in all industries BUT & here's the catch 22 situation. The QF workers 'might' be able to turn the Co around by way of working more, getting less $$ basically being more productive with the product they have but those same workers still live in an ever increasing cost base world outside of their own working world, there in lies the problem for any worker, their world continues to cost more so you can't expect anyone to on one hand take a pay cut & with all that it entails yet on the other hand expect to put bread on their families table with less.

Nobody wins here other than the fat-cats at the top, the rich get richer & the poor get poorer, always been that way always will.
It's the law of the jungle, survival of the fittest.


Wmk2

[noip]

Bodybag,

So full of hate, with no credibility. Sad.

I did you the courtesy of checking your profile .. nothing .. at least I have put the essentials of my credentials on my profile.

Like I have said on other threads .. don't let hate and ideology blind you to the truth. Sadly I think that may be in your case.

N

PS .. whilst I'm sure my message will fall on deaf ears ... that is the truth .. people just don't want to believe that the QF workforce really want to make this whole thing a success. And yet they have to be subjected to the abuse that Bodybag has let forth on me a couple of messages ago.

Why, as I get older I am less tolerant of people ....

N

[ditzyboy]

I do love it how observers are so quick indicate that the "majority of my coworkers" don't share my vested interest in the long term success of the company.

I think you will find that we try damn hard to keep our workplace sustainable and the customers coming back.

Thanks for the support.

[Capt Quentin McHale]

bodybag,


Your 1st 5 words say it all...."YOU... ARE GENUINELY DELUSIONAL ASSUMING"... QF staff are a bit cranky at the moment, and there's good reason to be that way.


A few tit bits for you to try and consume...


1..At last years AGM AJ announces a meagre profit, yet the very next day pours $60M plus into JETCANCER JAPAN. Where did the $$$ come from???


2..JETCANCER ASIA,JAPAN,HONG KONG,(RED Q) aircraft sitting idle on the ground all over the world(out of pollies eyes) earning zip but accruing enormous parking fees. Where is the $$$ coming from???


3..Massive cargo cartel fines. Where did the $$$ come from for the payment of fines???


4..I won't bore you with the fuel efficient qualities of the B777 because according to my Batchelor of Arts degree holding manager, the Trippler is "old technology". What the :mad: would humble I and the rest of the worlds B777 operating airlines know??? We got it wrong and my "manager" is right!!!


5..So in a nutshell bodybag, that is just a small bit of the $$$ wasteage and why we workers at the coalface are to blame for all of this mismanagement and $$$ wasteage. Because obviously we make all the decisions around here and the board just carry out our orders.


6..So, bodybag, could you please back up your assumptions with some COLD HARD SET IN CONCRETE FACTS!!!


McHale.

[The The]

The day the Qantas credit rating was reduced to junk status in Dec, the AFR reported that Chairman Leigh was out enjoying a few rounds at Royal Melbourne.

Qantas today announced the biggest financial loss and restructure in its' history with massive politically sensitive staff cuts. Where is Chairman Leigh today?

Chairman Leigh earned about $700k in fees and benefits in FY13. What exactly has he been doing for this remuneration? Why has he not sacked Alan Joyce, based on Joyce's failed performance? Why has Chairman Leigh not stood down?

In December QBE Chair Belinda Hutchinson, fell on her sword ahead of a big profit downgrade and potential shareholder backlash. Why is Qantas so different? Why is the board not accountable?

Clearly Alan Joyce does not have the intestinal fortitude to admit his errors and resign. The focus of this train wreck should therefore be squarely placed on one Leigh Clifford and it should be shouted from the rooftops!

[cattletruck]

There is always hope that AJ's name will also make it on the list of workers to be sacked.

Working for another company I used to support two of Qantas' websites which serviced about 13,000 Qantas staff. It provided me with a glimpse of life inside Qantas from the outside. Dedication was a trait that I regularly came across when I worked with Qantas staff on issues that needed resolution.

It saddens me to know that many of these 13,000 staff will have to deal with a very unsavoury future situation. Some of them are people I knew before I landed the gig.

Chin up and keep a positive mindset in the face of all this soul destroying corporate vandalism that is not of your making.

[Jack Ranga]

I have more confidence that Joyce will be gone sooner rather than later.

Neil Mitchell is now calling for his resignation, powerful friend there :ok:

And Nathan Safe (sorry, is that his name?) Did a sterling job this morning on today :ok: Keep it up boys and girls. Get rid of this dark stain on Australian aviation.

[EchoNovemberTango]

Anyone catch Joyce's interview on Sunrise? :yuk:

Well done to either Andrew/Samantha for asking the question, 'should you be sacked' directly to Joyce :ok:

[canonball1]

You guy's are all dreaming if you think Joyce should go. It's just a way for you to avoid looking in the mirror. QF need to cut all costs and leave the taxpayer alone. Unless you are the sort of idiot who voted labor and got us all a carbon tax, RET, restrictive EBA's...

[canonball1]

"The unions have been - they’ve stonewalled Qantas at every turn when they’ve tried to get productivity. Some have been very co-operative. Other ones have been extremely belligerent and it’s time that some of these unions smelt the aviation coffee, if you like, of global aviation, and that is: you’ve got to be competitive.... Their average wage cost was $92,000. In the international space, Emirates’ wage cost average is $47,000, Singapore Airlines: $42,000. So Qantas is way out of step with their international competitors, and in the domestic space, their wage cost is about 16, 17 per cent higher than Virgin Australia."

[Keg]

Got a source of that quote?

[BNEA320]

this time of year is a very busy time for agents booking flights at Xmas.

With the Winter Olympics just over, skiing advertising was up & many people thinking about skiing earlier than usual.

But, people aren't booking Qantas.

Why cos they fear, QF will close down soon.

Even if you pay by credit card & get your funds back when an airline closes down, it doesn't help you find cheap seats, in peak season.

So to avoid the stress people fly VA or any airline but QF.

Got to get QF off the front page of news.

Unions stop talking nonscience about strikes & start talking about multi-tasking of jobs & ways to save Qantas money. Any strikes will bring the end so much closer.

[booglaboy]

How could anyone in their right mind defend Joyce, the board and senior management. Look at the track record since his tenure. Facts can't be denied. The truth will set you free. Efficiencies and work-change have occurred in every single department in qantas. Wages/staff/unions are not the issue. Failed strategies, fleets,jetstar are some of the core issue. Tired of repeating myself but will continue as long as the trolls try to defend abject failure by aj etc

[piston broke again]

A management troll that's who...

Posted the same thing on two different threads. Come on mods - step in and ban them!

[Fantome]

http://m5.paperblog.com/i/55/559892/quarantine-station-monash-light-tower-and-lon-L-QZaIVB.jpeg (http://en.paperblog.com/quarantine-station-monash-light-tower-and-london-bridge-point-nepean-victoria-559892/)

[Not Nightowl]

Quote (bodybag): Offensive to you ditzyboy..
unfortunately not to the majority of your co-workers.
Qantas has a very real problem with its workforce.. A whole lot of rott and they feed off each other!
I'm sick of hearing Qantas staff at large blaming it on management for not engaging them properly.. seriously??
A lot of egotistical, lazy and greedy people.
Unless they lose some of their trouble makers and make the remainders realise that they DON'T have a job for life they are on borrowed time.
I'm so sick of hearing excuses.. They start with AJ and they continue through the entire workforce.

Well said bodybag. :ok:

[bmam7]

Ditzyboy

I'd ignore the unnecessarily rude comments from a few of the posters on this thread. They probably don't fly QF anyway - just want to stick the knife in.

As a mere passenger I appreciate very much the job done by the cabin crew. I always make a point of a friendly "hello" when I board and to those stationed at their respective positions as a trudge my way down the back. I also thank the crew on disembarking. I have also, on occasion, written letters of appreciation for that little extra that I may have experienced. I have no idea, however, if the crew ever get to hear of those commendations as it usually results in a "form" email response but I do it anyway.

Thanks!

[BNEA320]

quoted in paper 2 days ago.

How can any airline survive when people get paid so much for doing so little.

[Fantome]

a post from RampDog in Feb 2010 -

In all jobs and professions, only the select few ever get recognised for their contribution. It is usually the endeavours and labours of people with passion and dedication that although unacknowledged, bring success and harmony (and of course healthy profits).

In the race to the bottom line, I hope that these people don't fall by the wayside. I'm at QF and every day I see many people in "menial" but essential jobs, who feel they are being forced out. Management should start at this point and build morale and the business back into shape, aim sky high, because that's what aviation is all about!

[Jack Ranga]

You guy's are all dreaming if you think Joyce should go.

He is Gooooooornnnn :ok: matter of time ;)

[Lodown]

Yep! I agree. Joyce is done. If for no other reason than the board needs to divert attention from themselves. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out. Then again...lots of padding in the form of a bonus will make sure it doesn't hurt.

[rh200]

Joyce is the patsy, he was always meant to be. Standard practice when you want to restructure something like QANTAS.

Bring him in, get to a particular point where every one will do anything to save it, give him the boot, appoint a new one and mold the company how they want it to be.

Joyce will keep a low profile for a while and then get appointed as CEO to another cushy spot proving he's a executive team player and prepared to take it one for the team.

You are all just falling into their hands.

[indamiddle]

Thanks for your post, crew do receive letters of commendation some times many months later but that is just paperwork winding its way through the bureaucracy. We always appreciate your thanks as we actually get very little encouragement from our managers. Hopefully you're on one of my flights and I get to do a little extra for you.
Cheers from all the cabin crew

[VH-Cheer Up]

Keg, According to Aunty, it was GT. Here's the link (http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2014/s3953990.htm).

[aupilot]

Agree with the sentiments of most in this thread. However using terms such as "jetcancer" add no credibility to the thread or the poster. Real Australians work for the various Jetstar entities and their jobs matter too. Or are only mainline pilots relevant?

[jack diamond]

that's the wages , lets not talk about the staff travel for the auntys next door neighbours cousin whose best mate who left Qantas ................

[Tankengine]

Qantas makes money out of Staff Travel.
Next!:hmm:

[stubby jumbo]

I consider myself one of the "lucky ones" who bailed 7 years ago. Qantas was/is and always (hopefully) will be one of the worlds great airlines.

BUT- courtesy of poor decisions (not buying the 777's :ugh:), govt backed competitors, air fares not keeping up with costs etc etc.....the business model is Fckdeu !

I still recall sessions in the late 90's when a certain GM would bang on about the PAN AM diagram -when operating costs and revenue were 2 lines heading towards a delta. Well -sadly it was true :{

So what next:
1. Sack AJ .
2. Bring in someone who can -engage staff, speak english and understands that aviation is a people business with skilled Pilots, Cabin Crew,Airport Staff, Ramp Staff,Engineers & Office staff etc
3. Sack LC and some of the Board
4. Get on your knees and pray that this nightmare will come to an end- we bottom out and climb out with full thrust into infinity and beyond.:E

[Oakape]

Joyce is the patsy, he was always meant to be. Standard practice when you want to restructure something like QANTAS.

Bring him in, get to a particular point where every one will do anything to save it, give him the boot, appoint a new one and mold the company how they want it to be.

Joyce will keep a low profile for a while and then get appointed as CEO to another cushy spot proving he's a executive team player and prepared to take it one for the team.

You are all just falling into their hands.

Agreed! Will be interesting to see how it all plays out. If there is enough pressure for him to go, he may be sacrificed early & that will change the game! Time will tell.

[Lodown]

Joyce a patsy? I doubt it. You make it sound like they (the board?) deliberately chose someone to drive the company into the ground.

[Mstr Caution]

Joyce sold the board a plan.

The Board bought it & supported Joyce.

But it was a terrible plan.

I reckon they have past their PNR & they are just riding it out with a serious degree of Group think amongst the Board & CEO(s).

[Lodown]

From my take on the matter, the board selected a candidate based on what they saw as important at the time: taming the unions and returning shareholder value through cutting costs and expanding revenue. AJ has to work with the board and is part of the board, so while AJ may be the CEO, he has not operated independently of the board's agreement. What many on Pprune have noticed for years now is that the priorities have become a little scrambled. Shareholder value has been placed above customer and employee value, and in doing so, customer and employee value have headed south, rapidly followed by shareholder value. The board keep trying to tweak with the shareholder value, not comprehending that it is tied inextricably to the lead of the other two. They're trying to keep the fuselage airborne while the wings are disintegrating. The entire board deserves the blame. That's what they're paid for. They'll work it out in a few years time when they no longer have to concern themselves with the day to day running of an airline.

[Oakape]

You make it sound like they (the board?) deliberately chose someone to drive the company into the ground.

That may well be the plan. Time will tell.

[mostlysedated]

Its just as well that the staff uniform is interchangeable, and as bad as, KFC's

[Metro man]

If Singapore Airlines can fly Singapore - Perth return four times a day and make money, yet Qantas fly Perth - Singapore return once a day and manage to lose money there must be something wrong with the business model.

Other industries have virtually disappeared from Australia because the cost of doing business there is too high, and international airlines based in Australia could easily be next on all but a few routes where they don't compete head to head with Asian and Middle Eastern hub airlines.

QF could have been a successful small airline along the lines of Air New Zealand had it moved with the times and operated the B777, and maintained it's reputation for quality and safety which is now trashed.

Alan Joyce isn't totally responsible for todays mess, the rot set in long ago. Unfortunately he isn't capable of fixing it.

[Ida down]

D-I-X-O-N, I believe is the name you are looking for. I call it white collar crime.

[ramius315]

BNEA320.

Your posts always provide me so much to smile about. They keep showing how green you are. Of course, because it was in the paper it is true..... go back to Flight Sim version whatever it is now.

autopilot.

The term 'jetcancer' is not offensive. It is an incredibly accurate analogy. QF is dying, and it is self inflicted from pursuing the folly of Jetstar. Like the smoker who dies from lung cancer buts keeps smoking cigarettes seemingly ignorant to the cause, so too are the QF management and Board in their pursuit of Jetstar, which is in the process of killing the entire QF Group. You mightn't like the term, but it is very very accurate.

[p.j.m]

Alan Joyce isn't totally responsible for todays mess, the rot set in long ago. Unfortunately he isn't capable of fixing it.

but he's spent the past 5 years promising he will, and only making things worse.

I can't believe HE still has a job.

"Its not acceptable" - that's right Joyce - and you its all your fault!

[spelling_nazi]

Can someone point me to that impassioned letter sent to Clifford and his brush off response?

[Ollie Onion]

Elements of Jetstar are sound and would compliment the Qantas group nicely. Jetstar Singapore / Hong Kong / Vietnam and Japan should have been 'gone' on the 27th. Jetstar Domestic and New Zealand including the Tasman should have been frozen at current levels and Jetstar International (330 / 787) should have been shutdown, no one will ever convince me that low cost longhaul is a good idea (and I work for them).

The 787's should have been immediately rebranded to Qantas with the 747 and 767 being completely replaced. This would have given a return to profitability much sooner and also given Qantas time to pursue the staff efficiencies and cost base they seek. It makes me sick that staff are suffering whilst the company continues to pursue non sensical businesses.

[finestkind]

BNE320. Ask yourself why there is so little to do. I love the analogy that was told to me too many years ago to state.

“As a surgeon I can teach you how to take out an appendix in 10-20 minutes but it will take years for me to teach you what to do if something goes wrong.”

Yep those boys and girls just walked in and said give me a job up the front and pay me $110k and that’s how easy it was. I take it you still believe in Santa and the Easter bunny?

[Angle of Attack]

Good Post Ollie, I am not Pro or anti Jetstar but the 787's to Jetstar was a extremely poor decision. The A330's are fine and the synergies of an Airbus only fleet must outweigh the perceived advantages of the 78? The A330 is a pretty damn effiient aircraft, thats why they have been so popular.. The 787 would be a perfect replacement for the 767, and hell if management are hell bent on not putting it on the Long haul award they could make a new contract and at least offer it to the longhaul pilots..

[The Professor]

Consider:

The CEO is not there to win a popularity contest.

The company is not there to employ people.

The staff of QF is of no better quality than the staff at similar airlines.

The business will not support the wage disparity between QF staff and staff at other airlines forever especially considering the above point.

QF is not a profitable business. Do the employees of QF think change will not occur?

[Boe787]

Metro man,

Re singapore fly 4 times daily perth Singapore, Qantas once,

Can everyone please get over this carry on about how many more frequencies singapore and Cathay have to/from Australia to their hubs!

For example take a look at singapore to Dubai, emirates 3 daily, singapore one!

Osaka Kansai to Hong Kong, Cathay 4 daily, code share with Japan Airlines, but all Cathay metal, All Nippon one!

London to Dubai, British two, Emirates five, and all A380s!

So on a global basis it is not uncommon for another airline to operate greater frequencies out of another airlines home base!

So yes singapore and Cathay have greater frequencies ex australia to their hubs, and a lot of that traffic is onward transfer to other destinations.
But in other markets they do not provide the greater frequency!

[noip]

Prof,

Sorry, I can't stand it ...

You once said that Dixon was a brilliant CEO ... well that turned out well, didn't it ..... .

You don't think QF staff KNOW the CEO is not there for a popularity contest? They want proper management, not what we have .. please stop with your condescending f*&^g attitude. And please stop this banging on about QF wages. It is largely false and REALLY tiresome.

Oh, and QF's troubles wouldn't have anything to do with it being neglected? Keeping the aircraft fleet contemporary (oh that's right, the money was spent on J*) would make QF profitable overnight. (and I won't go into the alleged bill paying)

I think that's about it ....


Sigh ....


N


PS .. oh and as a retired airline manager ... how do you feel about a couple of billion spent on consultants, rather than managing the business yourself. If memory serves I believe that is what the bill comes to over a number of years? Willing to be corrected ...

PPS .. and regarding a CEO being popular. General Patton comes to mind. Not someone the line troops would feel comfortable slapping on the back and buying a beer for, however he was revered because they KNEW he had hard decisions to make and they TRUSTED him to not needlessly throw their lives away. The fact he led from the front on occasion didn't hurt either.

[Metro man]

Frequency is less important than profitability. SQ, CX, EK, QR and a few others manage to operate a Perth route internationally because of their onward connections but QF can't.

Unfortunately Sydney is located in the wrong part of Australia for connectivity with flights from most other cities going in the opposite direction. If Sydney was located around Broome it would be a reasonable connection from other cities for travel into Asia or on to Europe on QF, however being where it is it's too much of a detour when the competition are going more or less in the right direction. PER - SYD - LAX yes, PER - SYD - LHR no way.

QF seem to have followed the wartime strategy of the "Brisbane Line" and abandoned the rest of the country to foreign airlines.

[Not Nightowl]

Professor......right on! :ok:

[Not Nightowl]

Noip....?? :rolleyes:

[noip]

NN ... ???

[Chris2303]

Was it Dixon or Joyce who refused to buy the 777?

[noip]

Dixon......

[Tidbinbilla]

Folks,
This thread has drifted into a similar vein as the Joyce thread. In order to keep us all on the same page I'm going to close this one.

Please feel free to continue there :)

TID