What's next for virgin

[bangbounceboeing]

If Qantas does make a number of pilots redundant I would like to hope virgin would give them first dibs at any jobs going at virgin. If Qantas does park up the 767 fleet as mooted and I reiterate I hope this isn't the case, would virgin look to add capacity or allow capacity to reduce and try and actually make a bloody dollar out of it.

[maui]

I would be hopeful that Virgin would conduct their recruitment on the basis of experience and suitability,in a transparent manner.

But tell me Bang Bounce Boeing how you would set a policy in light of how Q mainline, with active support of AIPA, have treated applicants from Eastern, Southern, Qlink, et al

Maui

[Sand dune Sam]

Bang Bounce Boeing... How many Ansett guys got recruited by QF when the collapse happened?.. I can tell you, not allot...only a small percentage of Ansett guys made it through the Qantas psych and skills testing..I wasn't one of them.. But QF knocking me back was the best thing that happened in my career!!!!:D

[boocs]

Ditto Sand Dune

b.

[bangbounceboeing]

Sure I understand what your saying but it wasn't QF pilots saying lets not employ the Ansett guys and girls, it would be such a refreshing change for Aussie pilots looking out for other Aussie pilots when **** hits the fan for once in generation.

[crosscutter]

So I guess it would be a shock should Virgin also announce job cuts? Sooner the CEO pissing contest ends the better for everyone

[maggot]

re ex AN @ QF... didn't take too many pilots on but FFS WHY DID WE TAKE ON ALL THE MANAGEMENT OF A DEAD AIRLINE?!?!
JOYCE INCLUDED

yeah I know, caps, but I am yelling
:ugh:

[Normasars]

A large proportion of JQ are ex AN. The truly gifted ones are running the show :yuk:

[Anthill]

Anyone who starts at Virgin will go straight to the bottom of the seniority list, just as the AN guys did at QF in 2002. Date of joining is a sacred cow in VA. Any new starters can expect 10-15 years to a command. It doesn't bode we'll for a palatable outcome if there are retrenchments. Hopefully, it will be sorted by war of VR offers.

[Square Bear]

Sounds like a great idea.....Lots of experience, DEC sounds good!!!

That would do the Australian aviation industry as a whole a great service..NOT!!

it would be such a refreshing change for Aussie pilots looking out for other Aussie pilots when **** hits the fan for once in generation.

Like that will happen....in that unmentionable year I saw grade three instructors get replaced by Airline pilots who had "resigned" their airline job.

bangbounceboeing, sorry just cant see that happening.

Perhaps what will happen is that airfares will climb to a realistic value and instead of my travel from BNE to MEL being cheaper than my travel to the airport might allow our Aussie Major airlines to at least break even.

Anyway....am really hoping that it is not as bad as the doomsayer news organisations are wishing it to be.

[Solid Gold Dancer]

The next battle front will be for staff travel $$$$$.

Virgin could offer all QF employees staff travel rates on VA, now that would be funny.

[Ramjager]

Actually i think Virgins first priority is to start making money rather than losing which they are quite good at right now.

[boofta]

Virgin has NEVER made a single dollar of profit, its been a game of equity
transfers and sale to overseas interests. Qantas has been profitable until
an irish git appeared on the scene and tried to set up a clone of ryanair.
Where it all ends will probably be soon, as the said git is desperately trying
to push his agenda onto the government, he wants a crisis, couldn't get
one by grounding his airline, so now a financial crisis will have to do.

[White and Fluffy]

They can if they want, here is the link to start the process:

Job details - Regional Flight Crew - ATR First Officers - Expression of Interest | Virgin Australia (http://careers.virginaustralia.com/cw/en/job/493651/regional-flight-crew-atr-first-officers-expression-of-interest)

[KRUSTY 34]

Chatting to a senior QF Captain the other day, both of us lamenting the ruin that has been rained on a once great airline. He commented that after today he may have to look for another job! At the time I thought he was being glib, but now I'm a little concerned.

Back in '94, or whenever, did the provision of a scope clause regarding seniority disappear? I mean can a fleet be liquidated without the requirement for redundancies strictly from the bottom of the entire pilot group?

I hope I'm wrong, but what may have seen to be unlikely (in the extreme) at the time, could result in a serious experience drain from a once proud airline. If it does come to pass, good one AIPA.

Not that Joyce, Clifford, or any of the board would have the capacity to truly see the folly in that!


Edit: Sorry for the thread-drift, just had another look at the title.

[SHVC]

Bang bounce Virgin should do this why? Believe someone has already posted this link.
Job details - Regional Flight Crew - ATR First Officers - Expression of Interest | Virgin Australia (http://careers.virginaustralia.com/cw/en/job/493651/regional-flight-crew-atr-first-officers-expression-of-interest)

[Oakape]

The seniority list is a real comfort when, through no fault of your own, you suddenly don't have a job - not!

Whether it be through redundancy or airline collapse, if you are in your late 40's or older, it is usually financially impossible to start at the bottom of the list at a new airline, unless you have done particularly well with your money over the years and/or have an excellent redundancy package (although, often the redundancy package isn't worth the paper its written on if the airline collapses).

So all the experience leaves the country as people just try to put food on the table for their families & pay the mortgage. Lives are thrown into turmoil & some families disintegrate.

Seniority is fine when you have stable, long term employment. Unfortunately, that seems to be something that has been lost forever these days when any company, no matter how large & successful, can go out of business almost overnight.

This is one of the few, if not the only, industries where movement to higher positions is almost guaranteed by a seniority list. Perhaps it is time to find another way, so as to allow people to move within the industry by merit, as circumstances dictate. Everyone else in the working world seems to cope without a seniority list.

[KRUSTY 34]

Guess those Quals' don't apply to Cadets!


BTW, the Captain in the add, is a B737 Captain. At least he was last time I spoke to him.

[SHVC]

No they do not but let's not get started in that.

[XPT]

VA will probably go for the kill.

1/2 of Australia thinks QF will close down tomorrow & some will shy away from booking with QF, which will only play into VA hands.

Spoke to a travel agent just now, who said she's already fielded a dozen calls from pax booked on QF,asking what happens to their tickets when QF closes down "shortly".

QF needs to announce some +ve's & fast.

[Oakape]

Regarding the QF announcement today, the common theme from the financial analysts is that there has been no positive information in the announcement, like how are they going to deal with the things they can control?

The announcement was all about how the mess they are in is everybody else's fault & their only response is to cut, cut, cut.

If booking start to collapse due to public unease about the security of their ticket & the money the paid for it, like happened when the Ansett 767's were grounded twice, the downward spiral will continue & the financial situation could become dire.

Once again I have to think - is that what the real objective is here?

[Cost Index]

Borghetti has hit the mark with strategy and well done to him. :D

In other news... Well said Oakape. Seniority has served it's purpose. As I've said elsewhere it's time to retire this aged method. Timelines in every facet of life have been compressed. One needs to be flexible, not stagnant. Eliminate seniority world-wide.

[Open Descent]

Cool your heels everyone!

It's not even known how many pilots, if any, will be given their marching orders, and to be squabbling about who will sit where in a seniority system if a few deck chairs are shuffled is a touch over the top at this stage.

And who is to say Virgin are in any sort of position to extend a helping hand to any out of work pilots? In case you missed it, we aren't doing all that flash either at the moment.

What next for Virgin, bloody hell..... nobody here can even answer that question..... but here's a start... the flying program here is set to reduce over the next 6 months and you will see more 737 parked up against the fence as a result.

I guess what I'm trying to say is let's not get too ahead of ourselves.....

[ohallen]

There is no way that VA and its shareholders are going to back off now having invested all the $$$ they have to gain a position of strength, the rewards are just too great if they can pull it off (whatever "it" is).

I am not gloating but this is solely the result of QF Board and AJ doing what they did on so many fronts and unfortunately it is the staff who will pay the price and the financial pain is just starting.

The only hope for them is to show dramatic change now (ie jettison AJ and major board changes) to buy some time to shore up their customers and hope like hell that the SOE don't feel the need to fight to the death which realistically no one can afford.Better to have an orderly market now and share the spoils with a severely weakened competitor.

[ANCPER]

If it wasn't for the three airlines Virgin would looking at emulating Ansett.

[gaunty]

Who knows?

But if it was to be judged by who has the best leader on the evidence of the pressers by Joyce and Borghetti it has to be Virgin running away.

Hypothetical is where woud Qantas be today under Borghetti. Probably. Right up there.

Having said that Borghetti is smart enough to understand the deep QF structural problems.

[Berealgetreal]

All I know is every day I wake up and read that Alan Joyce is the CEO of Qantas is another day I get to keep my job at Virgin.

Seriously, how can you go from the position of total monopoly to their current one?

3 years ago it was the same announcement of 5000 job losses at QF which coincided with Red Q and other industrial arguments which ended in the closure of the airline for a period of time. No pilots were made redundant that time. I wonder what's behind it this time. Words like "work choices" and "wharf dispute" come to mind.

Interesting watching Jeff Kennett sprouting his two cents worth the other day. I guess the ultimate end game are American low cost conditions.