Jetstar NZ pilot needs a break! Give me a break...

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

We used to be the laziest nation on earth many moons ago.

Now I know who wears that crown!

Un-fricken-believable!

Jetstar pilot wins battle for breaks (http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11209616)

:ugh::ugh::confused::confused::mad::mad:

[Wally Mk2]

Good on 'em I say:ok:

J*'s reason behind it was pure commercialism, the humans involved don't figure in their reasoning, congrats to the pilots:D
No doubt this will open up a whole can of worms for both sides!


Wmk2

[Daysleeper]

Operator I worked for had some roster days which were all sub 1 hour flights and 20 minute turns. So one extended turn was put in so the cabin crew could eat.
Hungry grumpy cabin crew do not make a great customer service experience nor a particularly safe work environment.

Admittedly I've not seen it applied to pilots, usually had enough time in the cruise to eat, but it's the same concept.

[PPRuNeUser0184]

It's law here in NZ and therefore required.

Simple as that.

[Livs Hairdresser]

Since when did it become unreasonable to ask for a break on 10+ hour day? What other industry would accept these working conditions?

I guess you win the blue ribbon in the race to the bottom, Rad Alt. Sometimes we're our own worst enemies.

[framer]

At the link carriers you get to wander into the crew room once a day for a 20 minute break. It makes a big day a hell of a lot easier. I think it's a good idea.

[The Green Goblin]

I applaud him for his win.

However a LCC with wafer thin margins requires high utilization and fast turns. It certainly doesn't have fat in the system for operational spares and legacy turn around times :P

If there will be a greater return on the asset elsewhere, guess where it will go?

[waren9]

rad alt

educate yourself on the realities of domestic jet work in nz and nz employment law before getting too carried away.

[The The]

Most shorthaul guys hate longer transits and would rather get straight back in the air and finish the duty period sooner. They also don't get paid for sitting around on transit. Be careful what you wish for, to enjoy that meal break, you might end up working more days in a roster.

[haughtney1]

Good on him I say, just enough time to wander into the terminal, resplendent in uniform and sunglasses to order an over priced latte' and a choccy muffin..yummmm :E
Much easier to get a rest with 7hrs in the bunk :E:E

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

Density? How will it now be effected?
I'd rather eat whilst operating than sitting in the airport cafe not being paid. I can't disagree with the premise, but I just think there may be some very detrimental consequences to the quality of the rosters as a result of this. That being said, I've never seen a Jetstar NZ roster, so maybe it won't.

As always, be careful what you wish for.

[carbonneutral]

As always, be careful what you wish for.

I'm guessing that all the guys and girls in JQNZ really wish for is that they worked for an operator that respected the rules in NZ labour law and their own contract.
All of JQNZ's competitors comply, so why can't they? According to the judges summary JQNZ say they may find it so arduous to comply that it may force them to leave the country.
As pointed out by the judge though:
"As Mr Harrison aptly observed, it is no more a defence to an airline operator to contend that provision of statutory entitlements is inconsistent with its low cost operating model than it is for a garment sweatshop operator to do so. "

[Gate_15L]

Fine.. No meal break then....


Cost index 0 and a lap of the hold till I finish my meal thanks...

[waren9]

carbon

thats about as succinct and well put as it gets.

nicely done.

[apache]

So.... Does this mean that guys on NZ contracts working in OZ are affected too? Maybe JQ will leave Australia as well?

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

I don't think anyone understands my point. There will be No extra hold's, No extra meal breaks etc..... The company will find a way around it, and it won't be to their detriment.
If that's the way you want it, more power to ya. Longer duty days for the same pay, or shorter duty days( but more of them) for less pay, which is worse? I would rather be at home with the family.

I wonder how pilot's used to live?

[waren9]

everyone else seems to be able to comply with nz ir law

what makes jq think its special?

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

Waren9, thanks so much for your kind comments.

Having been based in CHC for some time flying A320s, I think I have some idea of NZ IR laws. They are archaic.

What makes a 4 sector day with 30 minute breaks more difficult in NZ v. the rest of the world (and Oz in particular).

A little soft, I'd say.

And I do get that of the 16 replies so far, most are supportive of him. But it's going to be impractical to implement. FAs have been covered by this kind of rule for some time, but still find it impossible to achieve.

If you guys try and enforce it, you will do your own part in making it just so much harder for JQ to stay competitive; for them it's all about fast turnarounds.

After a little stint in more salubrious operations with much greater turnarounds (anything up to 6 hours...), I'm back enjoying the challenge of 30 min turns. There's no time for a break; nor is there room for the softies that want them.

Good luck with it long term. Can't wait to see how it goes.

[Oldmate]

Rad alt alive. Thanks for your comments. Your own version of "toughen up princess" to be sure.

Archaic industrial laws you refer to came into effect in 2009, just after captain cook landed on these shores to be sure.

As far as I am aware, F/A union has not tested this in the employment court, but am sure they will follow suit.

In using the NZ marketplace as a way to lower terms and conditions, local laws must also be respected.

Good luck in your management aspirations.

[haughtney1]

RAD ALT, angling for the CP or fleet managers job eh? maybe you could earn a nice little bonus if you keep this under control?
Either way, you are ignorant of the industrial law landscape in NZ….if you want archaic…1100nm west is a good place to start :D

[Angle of Attack]

RAD ALT , everyone I have known has got the hell out of Jetstar NZ because of the crap pay and rostering, but I respect you for sticking around I guess. Have you looked elsewhere? I honestly dont know anyone that has hung around in Jetstar NZ, unless they are local kiwis close to retirement.

[carbonneutral]

If you guys try and enforce it, you will do your own part in making it just so much harder for JQ to stay competitive

So JQ can only stay competitive by picking and choosing the laws they want to operate under, regardless of the jurisdiction the contracts are based in? I hope they don't find Australia's 9% super laws 'impractical' compared to NZ 3%...

[ANCPER]

Hey FatGuy,

Ansett NZ crews had a meal break all those yrs ago as the time in flt was insufficient.

As to those kissarses whinging about how much longer their duty will be, I'm guessing an extra 30 mins, fcuk, that'll kill anyone compared to working say a 12 hr day without the time to eat a decent meal without having to scoff it down:ugh:.

[waren9]

rad alt

forgive me if you were upset by my comments. perhaps if you were a little more accurate with the location under your name...:hmm:

anyway, youre entitled to your view and fair enough. i did meet the applicant once but it was a long time ago. not sure that soft is word i'd use to describe him.

is jqnz's position so tenuous that 30min breaks will kill it? afaik the link guys and airnz domestic get breaks. is that still the case?

[Lindstrim]

Yep after a certain amount of duty time first tho.

[Mstr Caution]

A pilot couldn't expect to walk into JQ NZ flight operations and say I know of a regulatory limit. However, due to commercial reasons I choose not to abide by the regulation.

So what makes JQ NZ think they can walk into court and say they are aware of NZ employment law however due commercial pressures don't want to abide by them.

Says a lot about the business model.

[KRUSTY 34]

Says volumes about the calibre of the people running the show!

[Ollie Onion]

This wasnt about rest breaks. It was about an employer who had all the 'right' clauses in a contract and then chose not comply with them because they said they couldnt afford it! No employee should put up woth this, Jetstar setup the NZ crewing company to undercut its other pilots with little understanding of NZ employment law. They only have themselves to blame as this was pointed out to them years ago and they chose to ignore it.

[waren9]

along with trying to employ pilots in nz forgetting about the 500hr rule and that pay for training nonsense thats just been sorted. add it to the pile.

[GoDirect]

All this hype of saying that giving a crew a 30 minute break to comply with IR law is going to push the company over the edge is a bit much. If they can't give a crew 30 mins clear of the tin can when they were going to have a 20 min turnaround anyway it's a bit poor - they have more than one aircraft and more than one crew - they could easily slip another crew onto the inbound a/c that is not due for a break yet, or a crew that has just completed a break, and then the inbound crew takes something else out after their 30 mins at the table. It's not difficult. The managers who talk this nonsense enjoy their extended lunchbreaks usually while formulating this type of policy.

[toolish]

Good work Richard.
I thought from our flight deck conversation many years ago you had given up on the IR stuff.
Thankfully I was wrong:D:D:D

[The Green Goblin]

Every Richard I know is a dick :P

[Lookleft]

I think RG's idea was not to get mad but to get even!

[framer]

There's no time for a break; nor is there room for the softies that want them.
The softies that want them......spare me. I'm pretty sure that if conditions warranted it the " softies" could dig deep and work straight through....ie if we were at war.....but we're not. It is the law of the land and if JQ can't comply then their position is tenuous to say the least. I see today they are offering up $39 fares to Wellington Auckland and Christchurch. Do they need to be $41 fares?
They wouldn't go to Brunei and expect to serve booze so why come to NZ and not comply? Maybe Air NZ could start a "Level Playing Field " campaign whinging about how they have to let their pilots wander into the terminal once a day but the competition doesn't?

[tfx]

Very pyrrhic victory, guys. Very pyrrhic. It might be consistent with NZ labour laws, but it is going to cost you in the long run. Efficiency is everything.

And before you start throwing stones at me I've done thousand of hours in that sort of operation, some of them in airplanes which took a lot more attention than the ones you are flying.

[waren9]

it only becomes pyrrhic if a cost greater than the victory ever eventuates. we shall see i guess

[Ollie Onion]

And it is because of 'pilots' who accept these breaches of the law that the whole industry is disappearing down the sinkhole. These 'rules' are a cost to doing business in NZ. The judgement stated, these are the minimum standards to which you must comply, the fact that you run a low cost operation gives you no more right to ignore these minimum standards than a sweat shop owner!

I have to agree, they could have avoided all of these sorts of issues by putting our colleagues in NZ on the Australian EBA as originally planned, funnily enough with the current exchange rate that would have been cheaper!

Just like Qantas, the way this company is run at times borders on negligence, and for that the staff should not need apologise or accept illegal practices no matter how minor!!

[Not Nightowl]

Hey rad alt.....are you sure you're not a management suck up? :p

[amc890]

Hey rad alt.....are you sure you're not a management suck up?

Well he thinks NZ IR laws are archaic and can be ignored, perhaps he can provide a list of other laws which are OK to break?