A380-900 ever going to happen?

[scudpilot]

I see Airbus have just sold another 20 A380's, along with the big order by Emirates at the back end of last year, I wonder if they have any plans to take the -900 plans off the back burner?
Anyone have any thoughts / info?

[PPL Hobbyist]

Only time will tell. I think it's possible.The Boeing 747 project had a very slow start in the late 1960s, but look at how many 747s Boeing has built to date, and is still building them (747-800 coming soon). Airbus could do the same with the A380.

[wiggy]

...........look at how many 747s Boeing has built to date, and is still building them (747-800 coming soon)........


:confused:

The 747-8 is already here, has been for a while.....but it would appear that the passenger variant is not selling in great numbers.

[scudpilot]

I am sure that I read that they have a number of them built, but with no customers.

[Libertine Winno]

Lots of rumours of a re-engined and improved version of the A380 to be planned in the next few years (Emirates in particular are keen) so a stretch would logically fit in if they were planning on that (see link)

No rush on A380 re-engine: Airbus - 2/19/2014 - Flight Global (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/no-rush-on-a380-re-engine-airbus-396089/)

However, Airbus' to-do list is pretty well stocked right now, with the A350 and A320neo plus discussions over a possible re-engined A330...!

[wiggy]

I am sure that I read that they have a number of them built, but with no customers.

If you mean A380-900, no, none have been built. This link gives background ties in with LW's comment:

Airbus Explores A380 Superjumbo Refresher to Help Rekindle Sales - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-20/airbus-explores-a380-superjumbo-refresher-to-help-rekindle-sales.html)

OTOH if you mean the 747-800 then AFAIK, that doesn't exist, even as a paper study.

OTOOH ;) if you mean the 747-8i (passenger variant) then that does exist - Lufthansa (and probably others) have been flying fare paying passengers aboard them for a while. The 747-8 freighter has had a few more customers and has also been operational for a year or two...

I think that covers all the possibilities.......

[Alan Baker]

"The Boeing 747 project had a very slow start in the 1960's" !!! Well, if you call nearly 200 orders from 26 airlines by first flight date a very slow start! And that at a time when the market was much smaller than today. Airbus would have been ecstatic to have had a start like that for the A380.

I very much doubt that Airbus are keen to do any significant development on the A380 which would push break even further into the future than it is now, the sales prospects are simply not there. The A380 is a one airline aircraft, take Emirates out of the equation and it would be a disaster, financially speaking, and I doubt that even Emirates is prepared to underwrite future development costs. There are far more profitable ways for Airbus to invest it's money.

The assumption that the natural way to go is ever bigger may turn out to be as mistaken as the early sixties assumption that the way to go was ever faster. I imagine that few airlines are prepared to take the chance of being the first to lose 1,000 passengers in a single accident.

[Evanelpus]

if you mean the 747-8i (passenger variant) then that does exist - Lufthansa (and probably others) have been flying fare paying passengers aboard them for a while.

Nope, just Lufthansa, you can't count the BBJ's that head for the sand as catering for fare paying passengers.

[wiggy]

you can't count the BBJ's that head for the sand as catering for fare paying passengers.

Fair enuff, thanks ..:ok:, I've seen Luftie's 747-8i's around the network...but not very often, wondered if anyone else was actually operating scheduled services with them...guess not.

[DaveReidUK]

Both Korean and Air China are due to take 2 or 3 747-8i deliveries this year, plus a few more for Lufthansa, but I would agree that the orderbook for the passenger aircraft is looking pretty dismal.

[llondel]

but I would agree that the orderbook for the passenger aircraft is looking pretty dismal.

They could always see if Lion Air is interested. Now the art of bending 737s is pretty advanced, they could try it on something more challenging.

When it comes to larger aircraft generally, how many routes would benefit from more capacity? Is it more cost-effective to send two 777s or one A380 with the same total number of passengers, given the opportunity for more paying freight compared to paying for two crews and two sets of landing fees?

[awblain]

Various routes East Coast-Europe. Internal Chinese flights, if the new trains aren't quick enough. Tokyo-Osaka, SA-Europe daily. LAX/SFO Europe once a day. Sydney-Melbourne--US-Europe.

I'm sure Emirates would like to shuttle more slaves from Bangladesh all at the same time.

Since the money's been sunk, another generation of engines and a fuselage matched to the wings would make sense. It'll sell steadily for 50 years.

[NWSRG]

The only aircraft that could compete with an A380-900 would be an A380-800...so for me, the question would be, why would Airbus develop a 900 when the airlines wanting it really have no other viable option than an 800. Airbus may well be competing with themselves. Now, if a 900 would have better margins, or if it could attract sales that an 800 couldn't, then that's a slightly different proposition. But somehow I don't see it. An upgraded 800, with engines from A350, would make sense...a 'minimal change' that would deliver a few percentage points improvement. But I think Boeing read this market right...400-500 frames over 20 years. And that wasn't enough for them to go with a clean sheet.
Twenty years from now, I have a feeling Boeing will do something in this sector, but by that stage, demand may be a lot higher, and the A380 will be looking weary!

[Groundloop]

OTOH if you mean the 747-800 then AFAIK, that doesn't exist, even as a paper study.

OTOOH if you mean the 747-8i (passenger variant) then that does exist -

The 747-800 DOES exist. It is the official designation for the 747-8. A lot of FAA documentation refers to the 747-800, but some refer to the 747-8.

[DaveReidUK]

This one seems to come up pretty regularly on PPRuNe.

When the project was first launched, it was indeed widely referred to as the 747-800. For example here:

BBC NEWS | Business | Boeing wins $5.5bn Lufthansa deal (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6215648.stm)

But the fact remains that, for certification and airworthiness purposes, the passenger and freighter aircraft are generically referred to as the 747-8 and 747-8F, respectively (for example on the Type Certificate).

Part of the confusion arises from the fact that individual variants are still designated with the appropriate Boeing customer codes, so the TC does indeed list the 747-830, 747-8JA, 747-8JK, etc. But they aren't 747-800s.