Fires lit on Etihad flight

[Ken Borough]

The Sydney Morning Herald is now reporting that a 777 operated by a certain Middle East carrier diverted to Jakarta due to smoke in the cabin. After a 4 hour transit, the flight continued to its destination but further fires are alleged to have been lit (and obviously contained).
Tthe report is here: Etihad flight diverted to Jakarta after 'disruptions' (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/etihad-flight-diverted-to-jakarta-after-disruptions-20140219-32z8e.html)

Any comments on this report?

[moa999]

Seems bizarre that they weren't able to identify the culprit.

Trains and Buses have CCTV.

[Ultergra]

Some pax said "Airline of the year? What a joke!"
"Absolutely disgusted by Etihad treatment"

What they don't understand is 3 times someone set fire to the aircraft toilets.
3 times this aircraft was put at massive risk.
The risk of terrorism is still a massive threat, especially in Australia.

Be alert, not alarmed.

Claims a series of fires were lit on-board Etihad flight from Melbourne | News.com.au (http://mobile.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/claims-a-series-of-fires-were-lit-onboard-etihad-flight-from-melbourne/story-e6frfq80-1226831400670)

[Best Rate]

A friend of mine was on the flight and pretty much as the report states, he and his colleagues weren't impressed that the flight continued ex-CGK without identifying/searching/removing the arsonist/s onboard.... :=

Not a good scenario with multiple 'fires' being lit repeatedly. No other choice but to put the cabin in 'lockdown' mode I spose...

BR

[L-Plater]

Surely someone who goes to the toilet multiple times on the same flight would be recognised by a fellow passenger- especially if their toilet visit occurred within a minute of another fire breaking out. Perhaps the flight was not full and the culprit also playing musical chairs?

It's a shame the perpetrator couldn't be identified and thus charged under anti terrorism laws in Indonesia or UAE. Fire and aircraft are never a good mix. Sounds like the crew did a good job in quickly containing the fires.

I'm a little amazed that the flight was allowed to continue from CGK though if they couldn't identify a culprit after what had occurred on-board from MEL-CGK. Not sure what the answer is though- confiscating all lighters and matches from passengers as they pass through security and pat down of all passengers? A tough one for authorities. Thankfully, the flight ultimately arrived safely at AUH.

[Fantome]

when you read that news release you can but wonder what was the truth

if a nut case lit several fires in all the paper that accumulates in the waste bins
and if the fires were quickly put out then the cabin crew are doing what they were trained to do, proficiently. If the perpetrator was not identified and restrained by the pilots (who have handcuffs , baton, axe), then they might be found lacking

were not lessons learned from the Saudi DC-10 heading for Mecca in 1983?
the failure of that crew, led by the captain in denial, led to the deaths of all persons on board

the doco reconstructing that flight should be watched by everyone whose
job it is to act quickly and decisively to a major threat whether in flight or on the ground

[VH-Cheer Up]

Not sure what the answer is though- confiscating all lighters and matches from passengers as they pass through security and pat down of all passengers?
My wife has to give up her tiny little nail scissors for a 50 minute flight MEL-ADL. Of course they should remove all lighters and matches from passengers. Won't be needing them on board. Let them buy new ones on arrival!

[LeadSled]

Saudi DC-10 heading for Mecca in 1983?

Fantome,
Are you referring to the L-1011??
Tootle pip!!

[Fantome]

probably leadie . .. . . . if it was the one where the middle eastern captain (and later the actor playing him) kept saying to the quite ageing American F/E who came back to tell of smoke in the cabin . . . .. "WHAT?"

AH THINK WE SHOULD TURN BACK NOW

WHAT???

[doubleu-anker]

Yes that was the one. The crime was an evacuation was not ordered once on the ground as there was a "Royal" flight movement at the time. Everyone was so sh1t scared to even say boo, let alone evacuate.

It's the smoke that will kill you first.

[The Banjo]

Perhaps the culprit was identified and the company was simply waiting to get him to a jurisdiction that deals with such people rather decisively............:ok:

One can but hope that he suffers first.

[Torqueman]

I guess they were happy to continue the flight with a confirmed serial arsonist aboard!!!!!!


Speaks poorly of the safety and concern for all the other passengers aboard.

[Ken Borough]

A Fairfax journo is currently being interviewed on ABC Radio in Sydney. It seems that they are hitting the proverbial brick wall WRT a statement from Etihad. I suspect that Scott Morrison maybe on their payroll.

[Ollie Onion]

Everyone is ASSUMING that the three fires were the work of ONE person. Who says that this wasn't a bit more of a co-ordinated operation. I still don't understand why we allow people to board aircraft with matches and lighters :ugh: There is nothing more threatening to an aircraft than fire onboard, numerous fires at one time could be a disaster.

[Ken Borough]

I find it rather extraordinary that the flight diverted due to fire(s) and that it resumed flight with all of the passengers, not having seemingly taken any action to prevent a recurrence. What happened to their duty of care, not only to the pax but also to the crew? If I were a punter on that flight I know I'd be mightily disturbed. It won't be long now before Slater & Gordon or similar will be going after Etihad.

[Left Coaster]

Yeah…doubt it was ash…Too many indications that it was a fire starter. The pressure to continue on after a search turned up nothing would have been pretty strong. That's how most airlines work…get that jet home, we need it ASAP!

[slamer.]

Clearly no one here has done a Hajj charter ...

[500N]

In the local newspaper.

"A dozen passengers have been detained by Abu Dhabi security authorities after multiple fires were lit on board a flight that left Melbourne on Monday night, terrifying passengers for hours.

[Wally Mk2]

It just goes to show that all the security BS in the world won't stop a person or persons from doing what they believe is necessary whether it be for religious reasons, political motivation or just pure insanity.
One partial solution is to remove the toilet doors, then we shall see whom has a genuine reason to go into the smallest part of an Airliner:-)
As has been indirectly mentioned here already commercial pressure is everything when it comes to an Airline, safety takes a second place if it can be done so.


Wmk2

[Pappa Smurf]

Surely after the first lot of fires,passengers would definitely know who went in the toilets.

[Toruk Macto]

Have they positively identified it was a passenger ?

[airspace alpha]

Despite this incident making headline news around Australia (First item on Fairfax websites this morning) and in the international press the ONLY discussion going on within Pprune is here.
There was a thread on R&N but it vanished pretty quickly.


The reason for this may be found on the Middle East forum, posted by mods on 22 March 2012:


Etihad discussion prohibited


PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted.

So now you know.

[Don_Apron]

Summing up, said airline dosen't respond well to criticism. Even more cause for concern if you ask me.

[neville_nobody]

Being a US website wouldn't the First Amendment apply here?

[HighAndFlighty]

L Plater said:

Perhaps the flight was not full and the culprit also playing musical chairs?
Per CNN:


While the Sydney Morning Herald reports that a female passenger is a suspect (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/etihad-flight-diverted-to-jakarta-after-disruptions-20140219-32z8e.html), Foote said that two men "of Middle Eastern origin" seemed to be the subjects of investigation and were detained by police upon arrival in Abu Dhabi.
"One of the guys had a very nervous demeanor and intermittently changed seats throughout the flight from directly in front of me to another vacant seat with his travel companion," said Foote.
"During the first flight, when he entered the bathroom about seven staff members were congregated around the area, two of whom held fire extinguishers."Etihad flight diverted by reported bathroom arsonist - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/19/travel/etihad-fires-jakarta/)

[Aisle Dweller]

"Summing up, said airline dosen't respond well to criticism. Even more cause for concern if you ask me"

And 1 more reason not to fly with them:ok:

[VH-Cheer Up]

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Explore our onboard experience, our coach and limousine transfers, and our lounges in this interactive tour.



*World Travel Awards in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013. ...Sponsored by Philip Morris.

According to Wikipedia, Etihad comes from the Arabic word for 'Union'. More Union bashing....?

[mickjoebill]

First hand interview with a passenger on ABC radio 774 this evening
Passenger states

There were FOUR fires.
Two fires before landing at Jakarta and two after.
After the fourth fire the cabin crew manned doors so no breakfast was served.
At this point pilot explained why there would be no breakfast.
A women was suspected of lighting the fourth fire as smoke seen as she exited the loo.
The fires were in different parts of the cabin.
A "fire alarm" alerted the passenger that something was amiss.
Cabin crew were described as fantastic.
They disembarked and were screened at Jakarta but it was not well co-ordinated
Several people were separated on landing in Abu Dhabi.
Some passengers were very frightened.
Cabin crew used water bottles in the fire fight.

re the number of fires, there may have been four incidences and five fires.

Another passenger reported on ABC says crew said one of the fires had potential to bring the plane down had it not been let to run another 90 seconds.


Mickjoebill

[Ken Borough]

It would be interesting to know where the aircraft was when the second bout of fires became apparent. Should they have diverted to the nearest suitable airport rather than continue to destination if AUH was not the nearest suitable? And when I say 'suitable', i do not mean the most convenient for the operator.

[AEROMEDIC]

Has there been an identification of the ignition source or did the alleged passenger rub two sticks together?

[framer]

Why would you rub sticks together when you can happily carry a bic lighter through security in Melbourne. I'd guess that every tenth passenger has one in their pocket.

[onetrack]

Reports are that it was a passenger smoking, that caused the fires. I was under the impression that all toilets were fitted with smoke alarms that detected cigarette smoke? - or do the smoke alarms only activate with heavy levels of smoke?
Regardless, I would have thought that identifying and separating any passenger who was carrying cigarettes, then grilling them, would have produced the culprit. Perhaps cigarettes should be added to the non-flyable list?

[SOPS]

One fire from a smoker I can believe, maybe even two, but four....?? I think that's a stretch.

[mickjoebill]

If they were motivated by the T word, its hard to imagine that they did not come better prepared.

Their persistence points to a nutter or an extremist.
If multiple fires lit then rule out a lone nutter…



Mickjoebill

[aussiepax]

From CNN just now :

Suspects
While the Sydney Morning Herald reports that a female passenger is a suspect (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/etihad-flight-diverted-to-jakarta-after-disruptions-20140219-32z8e.html), Foote said that two men "of Middle Eastern origin" seemed to be the subjects of investigation and were detained by police upon arrival in Abu Dhabi.
"One of the guys had a very nervous demeanor and intermittently changed seats throughout the flight from directly in front of me to another vacant seat with his travel companion," said Foote.
"During the first flight, when he entered the bathroom about seven staff members were congregated around the area, two of whom held fire extinguishers."
Etihad flight diverted by reported bathroom arsonist - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/19/travel/etihad-fires-jakarta/index.html?hpt=hp_t3)

[underfire]

It appears the crew did what they could.

Why divert, what would that have solved?

Inform the pax, give them 50K freq flier miles to ID the perp.... :D

[onetrack]

SOPS - You've never seen a desperate heavy smoker on a long-haul flight, have you?
They'll do anything to get their fix on a regular basis.
The smokes were probably extinguished in the lavatory drawer, because the smoker thought they'd go out, without a problem, there - not realising the wax coatings burn as well as any tissue.

[Old Boeing Driver]

Actually, Saudia never operated DC-10's in their fleet. A few showed up later for special purposes.

The flight mentioned was a regularly scheduled Riyadh-Jeddah leg on a Tristar-200.

All 301 souls perished.

[500N]

OneTrack

"You've never seen a desperate heavy smoker on a long-haul flight, have you?
They'll do anything to get their fix on a regular basis."

You mean a heavy smoker who hasn't done anything to help themselves
from needing a fix of actual smoking a cigarette ?

And far easier today than even 5 years ago.

[SeenItAll]

There is no way that it was a clueless smoker that ignited all of these fires. Given that you are in a lavatory, there is water available -- so it is very easy to fully extinguish a cigarette. Just snub it in some water in the basin. Fully out.

Maybe a clueless smoker could have started fire #1 by tossing a lit fag into the trash bin. But after that, the smoker would have made sure to fully extinguish the cigarette, so would not have started fires 2-4.

[training wheels]

A women was suspected of lighting the fourth fire as smoke seen as she exited the loo.

Sounds pretty convincing who the culprit is if that was the case. As the saying goes, where there's smoke, there's fire.

BTW, will the ATSB be investigating this? Does it come under their jurisdiction? I really hope not as we'd all have to wait probably 5 years for the final report. I reckon give it to the Indonesian NTSC to investigate; they usually have their accident/incident reports out much quicker than the ATSB.

[blueloo]

Gives you pause for thought over our national carriers risk assessment of the minimal number of fire extinguishers on board....

Does anyone know what Etihad have on board other than the heat activated toilet extinguishers? Do the have both water and BCf (or equivalent?)

[wild goose]

Somewhat unusual that

1) The airline allowed the flight to proceed with all pax from CGK onwards.
2) The Captain chose to continue the flight from CGK with all pax.
3) Access to the toilets was only restricted after the last fire was set.

Very cavalier (or amateurish) attitude towards aircraft safety on the part of Etihad.

[moa999]

Reports that up to 12 passengers detained for questioning

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/passengers-held-after-fires-lit-during-scary-flight/story-e6frg95x-1226832410496)

[defizr]

Back again? :*

[mickjoebill]

Reports that bottled water was used at some point? Did they exhaust the extinguishers?


I've suggested before that there should be access points to the aircraft's water tanks so crew can plug in a hose with a nozzle or spray/mist wand.




mickjoebill

[compressor stall]

How long would it take to replace/replenish the extinguishers at a diversion port?

If not possible, then assuming the MEL says none required for dispatch, that's a big call to continue knowing you have a firebug onboard.

[tfx]

The law follows the state of registry. Something to remember if you are traveling foreign.

Cabin fires? Uncontained? You've got 25 minutes to get out of the air.

[nonsense]

Somewhat unusual that
...
3) Access to the toilets was only restricted after the last fire was set.

That's a bit like saying it's unusual that you found your missing keys the last place you looked.

According to The Australian newspaper, "lighters and matches were confiscated in Jakarta before passengers were let back on the flight" (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/passengers-held-after-fires-lit-during-scary-flight/story-e6frg95x-1226832410496)

Presumably the aircraft was also searched for lighters and matches, but even so, it seems quite extraordinary that in the face of clear evidence that an actual (not merely potential) arsonist with a faulty or absent sense of self preservation was amongst the passengers, the flight continued with the culprit(s) aboard.

You could argue there was little else they could do but continue on, since they were unable to identify the culprit(s), but this seems to fly in the face of the disruption routinely caused by minor security breach (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/passengers-evacuated-in-melbourne-airport-security-breach-20140223-339x6.html)es (Melbourne Airport's spokeswoman's phrase, not mine) at airports with no evidence at all of any malicious intent.

Seriously, it's OK to strand thousands for a few hours because someone turned their back on a door for 30 seconds, but it's not OK to strand several hundred people when you KNOW one of them has made several attempts to set fire to a long haul aircraft which is about to fly hours from land, because you don't know which one it was?

[wild goose]

Nonsense
Regarding your reference to point number 3:

The intention is that the access to the toilets wasn't restricted immediately after the take off from Jakarta.
This should have been the captains solution assuming that he had no other choice but to proceed with the flight from there, and assuming that the identity of the arsonist was not even suspected at that point.

Instead the toilets weren't monitored or restricted after departing Jakarta and everyone just sat there waiting for this clown to have another go :ugh: