Qantas To Split Into Two Airlines

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Another rumour guys but they tell me this is where rumours are discussed. I love reading the input of all on these threads and it helps me learn for the role the ALAEA plays in our industry.


I really would like some discussion about the effects of a split of Qantas into two airlines under two AOCs. Qantas International and Qantas Domestic. I've heard it is likely from several sources.


Also some documents fell into our hands recently that seem to maybe have turned this into something a little more than a rumour. I will try and post some of them here.

[Nkosi]

Steve,

If the suggested rumour turns into fact would that mean that, from an engineering point of view, it would be a case of 'Blue Shirts' and 'White Shirts' again? Probably not but then what would be the point of having Jet* as a quasi domestic operator? All sorts of questions come to mind.
Nkosi

[B772]

Very interesting to read about Matthew Lee. No mention of his Ansett career prior to joining Virgin Atlantic along with Lyell Strambi.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Red and blue team again? Who knows. They haven't advised us. I don't know what the impact on our members will be but they appear to be pretty advanced in their plans.


My take on it is this.


Yes they want to split off Domestic. They will do so to sell it offshore. It has been a couple of years in the making. The Govt and public would go bananas about it. They have deliberately created a situation where they lose money to try and convince people it is the only way forward.


They couldn't get their grubby mitts on Qantas through their Texas Pacific failed attempt so they are trying another ploy. I reckon the major shareholders are in on this and intend to make a few quid personally out of the plan. The entire thing hinges on the current Board remaining in place.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

What did Lee do around the time of the Ansett collapse? Was he part of the team there?

[Australopithecus]

I imagine that the eventual structure will decouple the domestic division from the QSA and leave international 51% Australian as required by most if not all international bilateral agreements.

All of this is by way of undoing the original merger of TN and QF. Remember way back then the govt wanted a float with a 25% trade sale. There were no takers for QF, but three expressions of interest for TN. The solution was to marry the two.

BA eventually had 25%, many mums and dads the rest, much like Telstra back then.

Qantas has had many barbarians inside the gates since then, and now we will witness another attempt to re-invent the wheel. International airlines need their domestic divisions. Any attempt by this wrecking crew to sell off domestic unfettered will scuttle the international division. (Sorry for the mixed metaphor)

[CoolB1Banana]

So Peter Doble holds Airframe and Engine Licences?

Do you think he has carried out aircraft maintenance in a CASR Part 145 approved organisation for six continuous months in the last two years?:E

[dch63]

Hmmmm, Fed Sec your lack of awareness of this project (which was announced to the ASX) throws serious questions on the veracity of anything else you post on this forum!!!

[Silverado]

Hmmmm, Fed Sec your lack of awareness of this project (which was announced to the ASX) throws serious questions on the veracity of anything else you post on this forum!!!

This has been well known for sometime both within and outside of QF. I find it hard to believe that the Fed Sec has only just been alerted to this development. As the slides show, this is no rumour.

[emergency000]

And to throw another rumour I heard last night into the mix: Emirates is looking to buy (yes, BUY) Jetstar. Can't give anything further than that, so no idea of the authenticity but, as Fed Sec said, this is where we share rumours.

[Angle of Attack]

Emirates will be in the spider web somehow that's for sure after the announcement.

[roundsounds]

Surely this whole thread is a wind up? This project has been subject to regular updates for many months.

[Keg]

Agreed. The decision to duplicate many functions and add significant costs to the 'group' has been well known for months. The question as to why has never been satisfactorily answered though I reckon the answer is obvious. They want to do a Virgin.

[V-Jet]

Pump and dump. I was away when the split was announced. It was shattering news to me, but no one else seemed interested.

Hockey specifically mentioned 'Qantas DOMESTIC' today which went right to a very raw nerve.

They are flogging it as APA would have I suspect.

The ones who want jobs will move (as many have) to Domestic and the unknowing or brave will turn the lights out.

They have finally wrecked it.

Its not 2 airlines. Its Domestic/int routes/FF/any number of Jetstars/terminals etc...

[VR-HFX]

I think I've seen this before. Wasn't it called TAA. 0/2=?:ugh:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Hey hang on. It may be ok to say that this is well known or they announced it to the ASX but I'm wondering how long ago this arrangement was decided and why there has been no consultation with the ALAEA about it (as required by the WD).


When was it announced to the ASX? Is there a link to it?


I know when Virgin split off they wrote to us and then they meet with us to explain the consequences. Qantas haven't told us anything about this.

[Divided One]

Qantas group restructure started 22 May 2012.

Link :- http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01299329

They haven't gone to all this expense for nothing. I believe the separate AOC's are still a work in progress. Perhaps the announcement will reveal all?

[Sunfish]

The Australian public is about to be royally screwed by Qantas yet again.

My guess would be that Vrgin has been shown "the ine in the sand" as well.

[oicur12.again]

"The Australian public is about to be royally screwed by Qantas yet again."

How on earth is the public going to be "screwed" by QF.

It's a business, the company is suffering and is taking steps to make it more viable in the market place.

If customers don't like the result, they can chose to fly another carrier.

Screwed?

[busdriver007]

Done by April at a cost of over $128 million! Wow no wonder Qantas is losing money. Couple that with all the Jetstar losses and no wonder our credit rating has slipped and it is nothing to do with the employees except for a few at the top!

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Isn't Qantas already two airlines?

Jetstar and that benefactor we all call mainline.

[Ertimus]

When you run out of ideas look in a history book. TAA sounds good everything worked in those days even though it was under a mountain of legislation and the Management earned peanuts.

[Qantas 787]

Agree with Keg - the cost of duplicating positions due to the split in the business is never answered. I would love someone to ask senior management the question in a public forum so everyone can hear the answer.

[The Big E]

[Emirates is looking to buy (yes, BUY) Jetstar.]

Why would they buy, when they have the where with all to just start up with a fleet of their choice, and then run them out?

Regards to ya all on 'ere, Big E.

[gear up job]

Looks like it's starting to happen.......

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/emirates-signs-codeshare-deal-with-jetstar/story-e6frg95x-1226826940670)

[airsupport]

As I have been predicting here for some time, on other threads, I still believe the ultimate plan is for an Emirates takeover of Qantas, getting closer and closer............. :uhoh:

[Divided One]

One might say Joyce is playing the Pollies this time. If you look at it he's lost shareholders, executives, staff, other airlines. Who's left? Canberra!
The death threat has moved from himself to the company. If canberra investigated like the NSW police, they may find nothing to act upon!!

Worth a read could have been written today.

Qantas splits, and spits out Joyce rivals in restructure | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/05/22/qantas-splits-and-spits-out-joyce-rivals/)

[V-Jet]

God in heaven.

Non-reference to Allah unintended.

Why wouldn't they give it away? The Australian taxpayer gave it to Jetstar for nothing, so it's theirs to give to EK. Makes perfect sense....

[DUXNUTZ]

They will also enjoy a range of full-service features such as food and beverage options and the same luggage allowance they would on Emirates.

So kinda like QF!

[SeldomFixit]

To every Soldier, Sailor, Airman and woman who fought and died for this Country. For every parent who suffered a life of loss or hardship, I apologise.
That successive Governments, black, white or brindle, have put a huge for sale sign on this country, disgusts me.
Lest We Forget :(

[V-Jet]

I am absolutely disgusted, appalled etc etc. but the Govt. is in a difficult position. ASIC is a waste of space and that is a separate issue, but it is NOT (nor should it be) the governments job to 'interfere' with business. The boards job is to ensure the business is being run properly. Without a thorough understanding of the Aviation business (and I mean thorough, as in more thorough than most upper management staff at QF) you would simply believe the unending lies, mistruths and blame changing that emanates from 'Kool Aid' Coward St. As a professional politician, or even a lucky but incompetent business person like Clive, you either wouldn't care (Clive) or simply find it preposterous that people paid millions by a company to run it would be deliberately asset stripping on the sly. Also, these lovely people are constantly assuring you everything is fine, on track to outperform the latest Glorious Five Year Plan and you also get to use the beautiful lounges that have just been built at great expense - what could possibly be untoward? All the staff you meet are very happy, it quite possibly is (as you have been assured by even proven leaders like Cosgrove) just those obstreperous overpaid staff that are ruining progress. If your house is broken into, you do not sue the police or the government for allowing it to happen, but you prosecute the burglar. Maybe BGA got the job specifically because of his stature? He is perfect cat-burglar size, hard to spot and shifty!

Do not think I agree with the above, but I can understand how the lies and theft is being perpetrated.

[woollcott]

Peter Doble as head of Airworthiness?

Now I do have to laugh at that - those in the know will be aware of certain incidents in recent times........

[Romulus]

Also some documents fell into our hands recently that seem to maybe have turned this into something a little more than a rumour. I will try and post some of them here.

Seems the document has been removed, but didn't Matt Lee figure quite prominently in the new plans?

[Cost Index]

The cost to employees health and the toxic culture which exists at QF is a disaster. Ultimately though, these pawns are just being moved around whilst a bigger picture is in play.

So in regards to ALAEA Fed Sec's first post on what splitting the business means, I would also like to stimulate discussion on the same topic but ask what effect the various possible outcomes of this would mean for the share price? Discuss..

[Ida down]

Once bitten, is that JQ domestic, and longhaul?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Looks like the sackings of today are seeing them reverse some of this separation madness. We were hearing there were massive internal debates about the cost to run on two AOCs, doubling up on maintenance departments etc....

[fruitloop]

Is that a split into 2 or 3 ??

[XPT]

why on earth would that mean doubling maintenance departments ?

It seems most of the maintenance is going offshore anway.

[XPT]

what will happen to QF INT once split ? Wither & die fast ?

Probably, with no redundancy payments either.

[ratpoison]

To every Soldier, Sailor, Airman and woman who fought and died for this Country. For every parent who suffered a life of loss or hardship, I apologise.
That successive Governments, black, white or brindle, have put a huge for sale sign on this country, disgusts me.
Lest We Forget
It's Friday arvo and I'm buying you a drink :D:D
Bloody well said:p

[noip]

SF and RP,

Yup ... I think that pretty well sums it up.

What was that bit about failing to learn from History?


N

[Australianguy]

Out of interest what is stopping QF management from sending all future aircraft to its subsidiaries like Jetconnect (in Nz) or Network. They paint them up in QF colours, the staff wear QF uniforms and management pay far less to the subsidiaries to fly them on their behalf.

Could this happen with future QF aircraft deliveries?

I'm not trying to wind anyone up, but it would seem that this is the next step in their master plan to outsource what used to be QFs bread and butter.

[Cactusjack]

Forget splitting the airline in two, the human wrecking balls responsible for this mess need their heads split in two, so to speak.

[Mstr Caution]

AJ initially termed the QF / JQ relationship as "One Airline Two Great Brands"

There has been absolutely no internal relationship between the two as far as one airline entity was concerned.

Two AOC's
Two pilot groups
Two Management Structures
Two business units

No wonder AJ's strategies and policies have been lost on the employees.

Employees have never understood let alone achieved 'buy in' to the airlines strategies.

Recent example is the return of Mainline to Hamilton Island. Employees and the general community didn't buy in to the withdrawal from the route.

AJ withdrew QF installed Jetstar and attempted sell the move as more choice to the consumer.

Premium passengers lost the premium sector offering of the Qantas Group and chose Virgin.

MC.

[2Plus]

Out of interest what is stopping QF management from sending all future aircraft to its subsidiaries like Jetconnect (in Nz) or Network. They paint them up in QF colours, the staff wear QF uniforms and management pay far less to the subsidiaries to fly them on their behalf.

Could this happen with future QF aircraft deliveries?


Absolutely nothing!

Watch this space. :mad:

[SeeBee]

Covered by the Workplace Determination. Qantas colours have to be flown by that award. Existing exceptions are covered by the WD.