Heathrow congestion charging

[Hartington]

The gist is that there is a proposal to impose Mayor Livingstones' congestion charges to Heathrow. People will be encouraged to use buses and tube and Hex. That's fine if you're coming from London but what about anyone coming from the many places that don't have good public transport links (most of the Thames Valley a prime source of passengers).

[essouira]

I think it's a brilliant idea ! There is really good public transport to heathrow and it will encourage people to use it.

[under_exposed]

No public transport links from Thames Valley to LHR! I used to live in the Thames Valley and had no problem reaching LHR. Several links to rail via coach.

[SLF]

What a brilliant idea, that'll help Heathrow's stance as the premier European gateway. :( :(

There's no incentive for the government to invest our money on public transport improvements, when all they have to do is come up with whacky ideas for new taxes instead!

essouira and under_exposed - I live in Melton Mowbray, 110 miles from Heathrow, 2 hours drive off-peak, generally 3 hours during the day. Have tried all methods of access - eg minicab £160 for drop off and collect in a battered Nissan, great for 14 days down under, a little harder to justify for a 2 day trip. Trains - 3 and a tube required, or 2 and the Picadilly line. I can drive to Leicester and catch a coach (do I really want to park overnight in the centre of Leicester?), ditto BHX.

I'm sure if you live in London, there's plenty of choice, for the rest of us mere mortals this promises to be another tax we'll have to stump up for. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[payingpax]

Proposed congestion charge for central London is £5.00. The cheapest quote on the BAA website for one day’s car parking at Heathrow = £25.00. The congestion charge seems rather small by comparison.

I am not overkeen on tolls or charges, but traffic growth in London can’t continue as it is – what alternatives to congestion charging are there?

The real issue is what the cash raised is going to be spent on.

[sokoyu]

As Payinpax pointed out, Heathrow already has congestion charges. They call them parking fees.


Seriously, I don't know if congestion charges are the answer, but something has to change. The traffic at Heathrow (and everywhere else in the SE of England) is appaling.

[kala87]

Ken should know that the majority of pax travelling to/from LHR don't travel to/from central London. LHR's catchment area is the entire southern half of the country (and beyond).

Has Ken ever tried getting the family and luggage from a village in the depths of the west country to LHR and back by public transport? I doubt it.

I've just read an article about LHR dating fron the early 1950's in which the comment is made that, due to two major rail lines running close to the northern and southern edges of the airport (the Paddington and Waterloo lines), no doubt before long Heathrow will be tied in to the national rail network, with direct trains to all parts of the country. Some hope!

If Frankfurt, Paris CDG and even Manchester can have this kind of air/rail interchange, its scandalous that our premier airport doesn't, especially with the existing main lines running so close to the airport.

The realistic solution is to provide high-quality affordable public transport that people want to use, with proper rail/bus/air interlining facilities - something that most other European countries take for granted.

[Dr Jekyll]

Paying Pax, the governments own figures show that traffic in London is not growing, it has been stable for years.

Congestion is increasing simply because so much money is being spent on bus lanes and speed humps that there is nothing left to spend on filling in the potholes.

In any case, congestion is only a problem in that it makes it harder to travel by road. But people only drive the Heathrow because it is the least worst way of getting there, if they are priced off the road then this makes the journey harder not easier. So what is the advantage?

I used to use the heathrow tube line to travel to work, and that was overcrowded. Frequently I would have to let several full trains go past until there was one with room for me on it.
Nobody suggests that therefore commuters must be discouraged from using public transport by an increase in fares. Congestion charging on the tube anybody?

Come to think of it, if it's sensible to reduce traffic in order to avoid congestion, perhaps we should reduce the time lost through train delays by preventing people using trains. Why not reduce the divorce rate by preventing people getting married?

[Hartington]

Having started this subject, I'd like to add some more comments. In principle I agree with reducing traffic and moving people to public transport. If congestion charging is to be one of the tools, so be it.

I live no more that 20 miles from Heathrow. To get to Heathrow I can:

1) Drive
2) Take a taxi (GBP20.00?)
3) Take a public bus (not a coach) fare unknown, journey time over one hour, runs every 30 minutes but only between 0700 and 1800.
4) Take a train, change to a public bus.
For options 3 and 4 I have to make my way to the appropriate departure point (with luggage) before I start the journey proper.

Given the cost of parking at LHR I tend to take a taxi for anything more than a 3 day trip. Very convenient for me and the extra GBP10 isn't going to make a significant difference to my calculation. But congestion wise, it's a nightmare because, talking to the taxi drivers, it is clear that don't always get return fares.

In the past there was a coach service and I used it. The times didn't always work (it ran about once an hour) and traffic delays could be an issue but, given the fact that a stop was only 10 minutes walk from home and it's no great walk from the bus station at LHR to T1, 2 or 3 it was totally feasible (T4 was a different issue).

If a railway link was built I would expect to use it provided:

1) They didn't make the fares as stupid as HeX
2) There was a train about every 20 minutes
3) The service operated from about 0500 to 0100 every single day.
4) I don't have to change (well, all right, if I do have to change then I don't want to have to climb stairs (with baggage), escalators, lifts and the like are fine) and I don't want to wait at the change point more than 5 minutes.)

[PAXboy]

I live North West of LHR in the area called 'The Chilterns' which is itself north of the Thames Valley.

I have been using LHR from this neck of the woods (West Hertfordshire) for nigh on 18 years and will not bore you with the details.

Suffice to say, I have tried public transport but, living in a village means that I start at a disadvantage. Taxi and coach get me to LHR in about 1.5 hours. A car takes me between 35 and 55 minutes depending on time of day. A taxi ride is about GBP50, depending on company. If I pick up a black cab from LHR to home - it is GBP65.

After all these years, I know every possible alternative route when one of them clogs up, whereas the coach driver has to stick to his route and sits in the jam.

When I meet someone off an 11 hour flight at 07:00, am I really going to inflict British/London Transport on them?

Congestion charging at LHR is a good idea in principal BUT the practicalities mean that business will be hit with higher charges. Regular folk that use it once a year will mind - but will pay.

Which leaves those free-lance and small biz people (like myself) who then have to pay everything out of their own pocket. Sometimes I use/visit LHR only six times in a year but 10 or 12 is the more common figure.

Congestion charging for London itself is reasonable because all roads and railroads lead to London. They do not all lead to LHR.

[payingpax]

The irony about public transport in London and the London area is that its more extensive than anywhere else in the UK – but still isn’t up to the job.

The interesting thing about congestion charging is that cash raised is supposed to be used to improve public transport.

For this reason I still think that the issue is - what will the money raised by a Heathrow congestion charge be spent on?

Will it improve the range and quality of public transport options available for getting to and from the airport?

BTW If you park in a BAA car park, in addition to the daily charge you also have to pay a one-off levy of 30p “to help improve public transport”. 30p is of course a very nominal charge – but does anyone know what this levy is currently being used for?

[GE 90]

All the contributers so far have missed a simple way of avoiding paying the exorbitant fees for Heathrow. Fly from Gatwick. Its easier to get there from London and much less crowded. The parking is half the price and there is a frequent bus and coach service to other parts of the country.
If you asked whoever you get your tickets from to book you through Gatwick maybe the airlines would get the message. At the moment your choices are limited by the misconseption that London's other airport is miles away.
The BAA and London Transport want to keep this a secret as this way you pay through the nose and spend a small fortune sitting on a tube train that stops at every station. Instead you could be spending 30 mins on a fast train straight into Victoria.:)

[Hartington]

GE 90 - you're right, Gatwick is a viable alternative, so are Stansted, Luton and even Bristol/Southampton/Birmingham for me. Well, sort of. To get to LGW, STN and LTN the best way for me is to go up the M4 to the M25 and the junction where I change motorways is right next to Heathrow and I can't help asking whether by doing that I'll be passing through the charging zone. And, in all cases, the time and cost of getting to those airports is much more than LHR so even though the fares are often cheaper the overall cost of flying from LHR is cheaper than the alternatives.

I've been out of MAN(!), SOU, LGW, LTN, STN, SEN over the years but LHR is nearer for me and (despite charging) it looks like it will remain cheaper for me to get to and with no viable public transport alternative I'm just going to pay the fee.

And that's the point. If the congestion charge is intended to reduce cognestion by forcing me to use alternative means of transport (e.g. public transport) it isn't going to work because there's no viable alternative.

[PAXboy]

LGW may well be easier, for some but LHR will always retain the 'crown'. Note that I am not saying what the crown is for ...

I live these distances (in miles) from airports:
LTN = 11
LHR = 36
STN = 52
LGW = 75
So you can see why I do not wish to travel double the distance on the M25, or take a taxi/train/train to get to LGW.

As to where the congestion charging zone might start, the intention is for central London only, at a point inside of the North and South circular roads. How far inside - I do not know.

Since LHR is about 6.5 (approx. 10Km) from the Circular Road (different to the M25 circular motorway, for overseas readers!)

[Someone Else]

Mayor Livingstone wants a congestion charge at Heathrow to raise money for rail link within London.

The public transport links from London to Heathrow are reasonable, from elsewhere in its catchment area they are crap. Its people from outside London that will pay the charges.

So… good old Ken wants to tax those outside his area to pay for a transport link for people in his area.

I expect he is popular with his electorate. :rolleyes: