Cabin blinds closed on a daylight flight.

[KING6024]

My daughter recently flew Bangkok to Heathrow on a daylight flight leaving Bangkok at about 1330.She was disappointed that the cabin crew insisted on the blinds were kept closed on the early part of the flight whilst overflying Northern India as she had hoped to have a view of the Himalayas.Could anyone tell me why ??

[thing]

Singapore do the same when flying Heathrow-Changi or the other way round. Must be something to do with people sleeping when their body clock is out of kilter? I find it annoying too.

Or maybe the CC just want the pax to nod off...

[Basil]

If you are sitting at the window and you want the blind open then open it.

[Chris Scott]

KING6024,

I greatly sympathise with your daughter's disappointment. For many of us who (nowadays) travel but rarely, the dictatorial attitude of some cabin crews can result in our missing a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Whatever happened to the wonderment of air travel?

Four years ago I was on a routine day flight from London to SFO, leaving about midday - a great opportunity to see the Greenland coast, etc.. Although many pax tend to doze intermittently on a long daytime flight, it's quite inappropriate to simulate night-time when the flight is due to arrive in the late afternoon. In fact, it's a recipe for jet-lag.

I tend to agree with Basil, but naturally one prefers not to be in a minority of one. The trouble is that most cabin window blinds slide open from the bottom upwards, so opening them a slit doesn't normally allow you to peep out. If they were in two sections, you would create a slit at a comfortable level, minimising the light ingress. (In my childhood, a/c usually had curtains! They were much more user-friendly.)

[thing]

In fact having thought about it I would much rather be zoned out gazing at the world going past than watch a movie. Not much help to those not in the window seats of course.

[KING6024]

Hi Basil,
That was tried and they were firmly instructed to close the blinds.

[Chris Scott]

thing,

Hear hear!

[finncapt]

Chris

Having flown over Greenland many times, I thought I would take a cruise and see what it was like at ground level.

One of the more interesting things I have done in my lifetime.

Some of those icebergs we gazed down on are HUUUUUUGE.

[edi_local]

Same thing happened to me on Emirates DXB-PEK last summer. We left DXB at around 4am, landing in PEK at 3pm. It was daylight for most of the flight.

I was at the window, the other two people in my row were pretty much dead from the minute they sat down, yet I was instructed firmly to keep my blind shut. I was very frustrated as, like your daughter, OP, I flew over the Himalayas and very much wanted to see them for the first time. I managed a few peeks, but kept having to close them when the CC walked by. Eventually as the rest of the cabin woke up I was able to open the blind fully again and saw nothing but flat Chinese desert for about 2 hours before landing. :ugh:

I am flying LHR-SFO in May, I hope this isn't repeated on that flight, I have been TransAtlantic numerous times and never had it happen.

[strake]

No..no..please no. Not again...

[PAXboy]

If you'd like to search for threads on this subject, you will find MANY, MANY of them!

One hint: When by the window, you can always put a blanket over your head, put your sunglasses on and enjoy the view!

[Shack37]

No..no..please no. Not again...


Why not? Advice often offered on Prune, if you don't like it or it doesn't interest you, don't read it. Or better, let the Mods decide.

[DaveReidUK]

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/424210-passenger-window-blinds.html

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/402221-window-blinds.html

http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcony-spotters-corner/144601-window-blinds-down-immediately-after-t-o-why.html

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/491968-window-shades.html

:ugh:

[PAXboy]

KING6024 If you check the Forum FAQ - sticky at the top of the page? You'll find the links in there too. It's not your fault that the question gets raised every year - but the FAQ and Search are your first port of call.

[meadowrun]

That's what sleep masks are for. Don't bring one? Tough.

Spoiled by flight deck seats, I suppose. Flew over Greenland at night one trip and Capt said I should stand and get a good look out the windshield. Spectacular sight on a clear night with pinpoints of light dotted here and there from FL410. Asked Capt. if he ever felt the urge to take her down for a closer look? Said yup.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Fly the 787....... it addresses this issue!

[DaveReidUK]

If you check the Forum FAQ - sticky at the top of the page? You'll find the links in there too.You're confusing

"why do I have to keep my blind closed mid-flight?"

with

"why do I have to keep my blind open during takeoff/landing?".

It's the latter that's addressed in the sticky, not the former.

[joy ride]

For hundreds, perhaps thousands of years people dreamed of flying and many died in the attempt, but once achieved it took just a few score years for the wonder to go and the Blinds to be ordered to shut. Sad.

[DaveReidUK]

I agree. If I wanted to fly without being able to look out of the window, I'd book on FedEx or DHL. :O

[One Outsider]

Yes, being Emperor of the window blind, Master and Commander of all that you survey, just to be told you can't wield your new found powers must be a sad experience.

[PAXboy]

Rather than being 'Master and Commander' some of us have always advised:

Place a blanket over your head to shield others who do not share the delight.
Open the blind half way for, most of the time, you are looking down.
Have your sunglasses to hand.
DON'T fly the 787. :ok:

[joy ride]

Perhaps airlines should fit blinds which have a central "letter box" slot, perhaps with a fabric covering flap.

1 or 2 days ago the BBC news site had anarticle about using Virtual Reality sims to reassure nervous passengers during turbulence, and part of this research includes using the whole interior space as a screen to project images on to, including virtual images of the scene outside.

I quite like the idea of seeing the virtual view of the plane and surrounding view from a virtual viewing position on the wings or tail, but would soon want to revert to looking at the real world! This aspect of VR projection would of course require the plane to have no windows, but to be fair was described as a research project.

[Hotel Tango]

•Place a blanket over your head to shield others who do not share the delight.
•Open the blind half way for, most of the time, you are looking down.

Exactly PAXboy. Sometimes I'm simply astounded by the lack of initiative of some of our fellow pax on this forum. :} Oh-oh, guess I'm going to get flamed now (makes hasty retreat) ;)

[joy ride]

I certainly do try to minimise light spill but have still been told to shut the blind; and let's not forget the other type of "Master and Commander of the Blind", the one who books a window seat to ensure that the blind is kept shut for the entire flight! I have often had to book at the last minute and get fed up with not being able to get a window seat then noticed virtually all those who did get a window keep the blind down.

[Tray Surfer]

Can I just say, as cabin crew… I never tell anyone to close a window blind on a day flight.

After all, it IS a daylight flight, and I know that a lot of people who chose to sit next to the window do so because they wish to look out of it, or prefer natural light.

We still carry eye shades for people who wish to have them and I will even defend the "right" (if you want to call it that…) of the people at the window to keep it open.

There are odd occasions where I may ask someone at the window to lower the blind some what, say for example, when bright direct sunlight is shining directly onto someones IFE screen, or something like that. I, however, never ask them to close it, just pull it down a little.

I was once shouted and screamed at by a French man in Club, because some people had their window blinds open. He was telling me that it was BA policy to close window blinds on daylight flights, which it is not, and that he would never sleep because of the light in the cabin… Needless to say, he slept for about 6 hours, snoring like a tractor for most of it, so the light must have been very bad.

Either way, we are not all bad when it comes to things like this.

[Hotel Tango]

KING6024 and joy ride, it comes down to individual airline policies (if they actually have one) and even more often the individual policies of the CSMs. Some airlines are a little more relaxed about blinds during daytime operations. I recently returned from NRT to AMS (in C), on a daytime flight. The pax in row 1 had their blinds up the entire trip. They were not bullied to close them by the CC.

[joy ride]

I have never felt "bullied" to close the blind or do anything else by CC, quite the opposite, a polite request is all!

[Hotel Tango]

I have never felt "bullied" to close the blind or do anything else by CC

Hmm, you haven't flown on certain U.S. carriers (who shall remain nameless) then :);)

Of course I am generalising, as I have had good experiences on U.S. carriers. But, equally, I've had some real dragons :eek:

[joy ride]

HT, your last post got me thinking about all my flights and I realise that 3 of the 4 times I felt genuinely let down by any aspect of an airline's service happened on US carriers, and 2 of these on the same carrier; however, even those airlines were fine on other flights with them. The other poor service was with an Eastern European airline in the 1980s, but then things over there did need a different level of expectations back then!

[Espada III]

Flying into Newark about three summers ago aboard a Continental B757 we were requested to close the blinds after landing to stop heat soak into the plane.

I was puzzled about this as the sunshine was clearly hitting the exterior of a long metal tube which would heat up nicely thank you without the additional help of a few small portholes.

One wonders what the real reason was....

[KBPsen]

One wonders what the real reason was.... To stop heat soak into the plane.

[strake]

In third world countries, people are sitting round fires holding their heads in their hands. A child cries, 'Tell me Father, tell me please, how do the rich men handle the terrible problem of the window-blinds on aircraft?'


Tightslot, Tightslot..., wherefore art thou? Why have you forsaken us..?

[Sobelena]

If it bothers you that much, perhaps an intelligent 'Directeur General' would simply ignore the thread?

[strake]

Ah well, what is the point of a forum if you don't comment?
I just don't understand how over the years I have looked in on this particular forum, the subject has just repeated, repeated,repeated....
So many interesting things to talk about,to question,to comment on and to help with for those of us lucky enough to spend our days flying around the world and yet..window blinds, simple window blinds create so much angst and hand wringing.
However, always obliging, I shall now do as you suggest.

[BOAC]

strake - if you click your mouse on the blue bar at the top of the page you will find you can drag that down and close the window. Then you can sleep without having to read about window blinds.

[joy ride]

Projected projected views of the world:

BBC News - Screens to replace windows on S-512 supersonic jet (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26258971)

[grounded27]

Thanks for the link, very interesting. This was one of the hurdles that stopped the Boeing blended wing from getting going. There has been a great advancement in both camera and display tech as of recently.

[mikkie4]

IF i have payed for a window seat,i expect to be able to see out of the window.if not i want my money back

[joy ride]

I cannot imagine ever getting the same level of interest and enjoyment from seeing an electronic version of the world, instead of the real one, but sadly I think many people only respond to anything if it's on a screen. Go to any concert or performance and most of the audience prefers to watch it on their phones!

[grounded27]

I disagree completely, a large screen with high definition could give you a sensation of flight that you just can not get out of a small window. 4 years spending thousands of hours sitting next to a very large observer window behind the CAPT of an MD-11 is what I think of when I say this. In a low level bank you get a very interesting perspective. It is said that the only reason Gulfstream has not enlarged that narrow fuselage on their G series aircraft is that they would lose their trademark large windows. I for one believe a fine detail large display would be preferred over straining your neck to look out a porthole! The only negative is that some may see more than they want to but then again they did give you the option to turn it off.

[DaveReidUK]

I'm not sure how looking at a screen that's showing you what you would have seen by looking out of the window, if there was one (i.e. what the camera is seeing) is going to give you more of a sensation of flight than an actual window.

Personally, I have no difficulty in realising that I'm flying when I look down and see the world moving past at 600 miles per hour.

[Tinwacker]

IF i have payed for a window seat,i expect to be able to see out of the window.if not i want my money back

Mmmmm but I think you have probably just paid for the seat not the window, unless of course you are flying with dear Ryan...

[joy ride]

I have had plenty of experience of computers, projectors and other electronics failing, but I have to encounter any window suddenly become opaque!

If a windowless plane DID have an electronic failure, something which seems relatively common on complex modern aircraft, the dark interior would be pretty unpleasant.

Copper is needed for wiring and due to demand around the world its cost is increasing dramatically, glass remains relatively cheap and plentiful.

How long would it be before many passengers started complaining about projected views of the outside and demand wall-to-wall movies? Then no-one would be able to see out.

Concorde designers looked at the problems 50 years ago and decided that windows were a good idea despite their problems, and I think they made the right decision!

[Hipennine]

Long before Concorde engineers, the Victorians who built the Central Line underground had the same dilemma. They thought that nobody would want to look outside of the tube train, because everything outside was black blank wall, and introduced the "padded cell" carriage without windows.

Punters hated them, and tube trains have had big windows ever since..

[joy ride]

^ Good point! And before that we had the "Submarine Lock" on one canal in the west of England, where the barge went into a cylindrical steel drum, the doors were bolted and up or down it went, perhaps sometimes with people in too, not nice at all!

[Hartington]

<anorak mode>
The "padded cells" were on the City and South London Railway, not the Central London Railway.
<anorak mode\>

[joy ride]

<<Less well-informed anorak mode!>> Cheers for that, I was pretty sure they were not on the Central Line but thought they might have been on the Metropolitan Line!

[Peter47]

Referring to an old book I have, and yes I am being very 'anoracky' you are probably referring to 'Padded Cells' which were used from 1890 on the City & South London line, now part of the southern end of the Northern line which was entirely underground. As you said, they were nor popular for not having proper windows.

[WHBM]

Referring to an old book I have, and yes I am being very 'anoracky' you are probably referring to 'Padded Cells' which were used from 1890 on the City & South London line.
An interesting comparison, because looking in the one in the museum, although there are no windows, the seats are a sight more "padded" and comfortable than nowadays (easily rectified on the second series built, by the way), and they expected that everyone would have an upholstered seat, even in peak hours, for their two pence fare (and that was the "old" pence as well) rather than swinging on a pole in close proximity to all those unwashed armpits........

Sort of similar to what aviation has done with cabin furnishings and seat spacing and comfort in recent times.

[NWA SLF]

Specifics of the OPs question - open window would have been toward the north and away from the sun so I can understand the complaint. I have been on several flights, however, when the request to close blinds has been due to direct sun glaring into the faces of many passengers. It's not just having a sunlit cabin - its the direct sun glare on the side of passenger's face.

[airsmiles]

On a recent LHR-LAX flight with Air New Zealand I suffered the passenger from hell. Little brat in the row ahead without a word just leant over and closed my blind! This blind was right next to me, not even spanning little brats seat, I opened it again where upon Mother brat rounded on me as little brat didn't have enough darkness to watch her computer game.

If we'd have had a pleasant discussion about it first I'm sure we could have worked something out. Unfortunately civility seems to be a lost quality to most people and little brat missed some of the best views of Greenland, Canada and the Rockies that I've seen for some time.

My worst experience of this 'closed metal tube' problem was a lunch time flight with Delta LHR-DTW. Before we even pushed back at LHR, the Delta Police systematically went down the plane closing all of the blinds. A few protests ensured but Delta Police insisted it was a security requirement. Guess which US airline I never fly with now.

Generally I don't have many problems with the window blinds and it just seems to be the occasional paranoid crew or passenger who know their rights.

[Rwy in Sight]

Before we even pushed back at LHR, the Delta Police systematically went down the plane closing all of the blinds. A few protests ensured but Delta Police insisted it was a security requirement.

I thought it was a requirement to have the blinds open for take off. Maybe you did get a reprieve for the take off but I do get your frustration.

Guess which US airline I never fly with now

Delta although I think there are reasons to avoid all US carriers over the Pond.

[Skipness One Echo]

A few protests ensured but Delta Police insisted it was a security requirement.
I would have just opened it and see what happened next :) One has to obey lawful instructions of the cabin crew but not made up bollocks. It would have been a very brave cabin attendant that would request the Police to be summoned for that!

[KBPsen]

Meet the modern airline passenger:

O-3i_auSk5Q

[Wannabe Flyer]

Spent 32 hours on a dreamliner this week...

These windows will close out this conversation for ever once implemented across aircraft.

I saw some of the most beautiful views in bright sunshine without flinching as one can imagine.

[PAXboy]

Very interesting W.F. The built in sunshade feature works! What of the ability for the crew to remotely 'close' the windows?

[Wannabe Flyer]

The crew can dim all and did so to a level as if one were wearing blue glasses. You can choose one of 8 shades from black to open at any time. The blue look along with a sunset light glow in the cabin while flying over the andamans with sun setting on one side was a treat to believe. If an unreasonable person still chooses to go all bright then they need a tight spanking!

[EEngr]

while flying over the andamans with sun setting on one side was a treat to believe.Unless you were supposed to be flying from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. There's more then one reason PAX might want to look outside from time to time.

[joy ride]

Armstrong and Miller, brilliant!

[aergid]

Fly the 787....... it addresses this issue!



Aye when it does fly lol

[Wannabe Flyer]

Thankfully, mine flew both ways without incident....

Eegr.... Tried looking and would suggest the next edition of windows incorporate a zoom function! :cool: