Phantom Pages

[Lon More]

Will you please do something about the phantom pages plaguing this site?

[SpringHeeledJack]

Agreed, all those extra seconds realising that there isn't any next page all add up to enough time that could be used for better purposes.


SHJ

[vulcanised]

Also agree.

It really is a dismal performance that has been going on for far too long.

[Wholigan]

I have reported this to the admin people and asked them what the problem is.

[Sunnyjohn]

I don't seem to have this problem. What do phantom pages look like? (I know that seems a silly question but since you have asked to have something done about them, I assume they must be visible to some people).

[The SSK]

Sunnyjohn if you are following a thread you will regularly be using 'last page' or 'go to last post'. If you are then told that you are on the second to last page, the natural reaction is to look at the last one, but that just returns you to the first post on the one you are already on.

This can be mildly irritating (me) or absolutely infuriating (others not so laid-back)

[uffington sb]

Sunnyjohn.

On the Sir Jimmy Saville thread, there are 69 pages, but if you click on 69, you end up back on 68,

[SpringHeeledJack]

On the Sir Jimmy Saville thread, there are 69 pages, but if you click on 69, you end up back on 68,

That happened to me a couple of times with the ex.....:uhoh:


SHJ

[Lonewolf_50]

68 was generally described as "you eat me, and I'll owe you one." :eek:

[MagnusP]

@Lonewolf: :D :D :D

[airship]

It happens when posts are deleted...

Ahhhh, so the mods might well be wholiganly responsible, ghostly forms they resemble here sometimes...?! :uhoh: :)

[Wholigan]

Nope. I am told that the "fix" is for IB to run a scheduled task to correct the database, and nothing to do with deleted posts.

However, IB is probably only just getting in to work, so we'll have to wait to see what they can do.

[Lon More]

Thanks Wholi, couldn't ask for more.

Repeated complaints by others though appear to have had little effect so I won't be holding my breathe,

[wings folded]

And the advert for a Pilot's Atlas is too big, I imagine, because when it pops up, all the thread titles get smaller (or at least for me they do).

I thought a pilot's atlas was called a navigator anyway.

[onetrack]

The Phantom Page syndrome is an inbuilt problem with the vBulletin forum programme, and it requires a regular database cleanup to correct it.
The webmaster has to be on the ball, when it starts to happen.
I'm not sure that it requires screaming in 28pt bold, though - I always thought Lon More had a pretty good sense of humour.
It must have deserted him for one frustrating moment. Computers that constantly say 'no', can do that to you. :)

[unstable load]

The Bristow pictures thread currently has 2 ghost pages and has had at least one for a long while now.

[Sunnyjohn]

Sunnyjohn if you are following a thread you will regularly be using 'last page' or 'go to last post'. If you are then told that you are on the second to last page, the natural reaction is to look at the last one, but that just returns you to the first post on the one you are already on. Thanks SSK and uffington. I just assumed it was a vagary of Pprune but it doesn't seem to worry me. Should I be worried about that?

[henry_crun]

Alternatively you may be on the penultimate page and notice that another page number is shown but assume that it is a phantom, only to find after you posted that it did actually exist and you have used the last letters of the wrong word to start your excruciatingly funny next word. :{

[dazdaz1]

I use to enjoy finding hidden pages on web sites (nothing on here) best entertainment was entering page numbers (non screen display page numbers) on the old BBC ceefax. Found some interesting ones where the Gov/BBC updated any security threats as to BBC broadcasting studios, and a page for UK updates to the security services. Bet the Russians never sussed that.

Alas it's all BBC red button now. If I don't post again in a few days:{

[Wholigan]

Response received:

In any event, I can ask tech to run a cleanup script that can (but does not always) temporarily correct this pagination error. BUT, bear in mind that this is an issue of appearance only; there won't be any actual posts missing from anyone's view -- rather, it will appear as though there is another page in a thread that you can't get to. Don't fret -- that is a phantom page and there isn't really anything there.

So it seems that probably the most effective way to deal with the phantom pages is to post something, as you have been doing, and live with it.

[Lon More]

Thanks again, Wholi.

are any other sites affected I wonder?

[vulcanised]

AV Forums had so many problems with VBulletin they dumped it altogether recently.

[Wholigan]

A small update. It seems that the above explanation may not be entirely accurate and that there may indeed be some posts that are on the next page.

Could I please ask you all to do something for me to check what they are telling me?

If you see a phantom page, then before you post a reply could you please make note of the last post number and the post content on the last page visible. Then when you have posted please note if there are other posts already on the new page.

Not sure if that will help them but it would help me.

Many thanks.

[rgbrock1]

Wholigan wrote:

If you see a phantom page, then before you post a reply could you please make note of the last post number and the post content on the last page visible. Then when you have posted please note if there are other posts already on the new page.

i read this before my first coffee. After the second sentence my brains exploded all over my LCD, due to incomprehension. Thanks Wholigan! :ok:

[Wholigan]

Got you awake though eh? :E;)

[BOAC]

I'll post this again from the previous thread on this topic:ugh:

IF YOU SELECT 'POST REPLY' YOU WILL NORMALLY BE ABLE TO READ ALL THE 'MISSING' POSTS

Note to IB: The posts are normally 'there' and it is thought to be the usual heavy-handed, often quirky, moderation and deletion of posts that causes the problem with the database. I believe it was claimed it would be sorted on the next db run.

[IBobi]

Hi all,

Thanks for reporting this issue. I had thought that the "phantom" pages were actually just a pagination error, and there were no posts that could not be seen -- just a page number that had no posts, that could not be reached.

For instance, in the Saville thread mentioned earlier, I see page 69, it has 2 posts on it (since my posts per page is set to default -- 20), the last post being #1362 by vulcanised

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/467660-sir-jimmy-savile.html

If you are saying that you know there are posts that you can't see, I'll need to reproduce that so tech can fix it. Please post links to any threads you're seeing this issue with.

Thank you

[IBobi]

Is this still happening? Tech have run the cleanup script for this.

[unstable load]

I was on the Bristow photos thread earleir and there was a ghost link that returned to the current page I was on.

[Lon More]

Had one on TRABB yesterday

[henry_crun]

We are currently one post in arrears on Last Two Letters, the phantom page turns up on the penultimate post. But please don't fix it, we use it to add to the humor of the game. (US spelling of humour intentional)

[IBobi]

We are currently one post in arrears on Last Two Letters, the phantom page turns up on the penultimate post.

Hmm. I'm not able to replicate any of these. This thread:

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/471029-last-two-letters-start-next-word-529.html

...lets me go to page 529 (the past page for me, at 20 posts/page), final post being Henry Crun's Erdinger-Dunkel photo at timestamp 14th Feb 2014, 10:54.

No?

[Quizling]

At this time the "Jimmy Savile" thread has 1393 posts, but is showing a "ghost" page.

ie. seven posts before it should show a new page.

Good luck sorting this.

[IBobi]

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/467660-sir-jimmy-savile-70.html

I show latest post #1393 timestamped 14th Feb 2014, 13:33 by SpringHeeledJack (http://www.pprune.org/members/214527-springheeledjack)

Page 70 for me, (20 posts/page), no phantom.

[probes]

Dunno. What could possibly be SO annoying about it? You click on the last one, appears it isn't, you know it's the phantom, so...? Wonders someone who's really picky about the No of clicks needed and speed also. :uhoh:

[IBobi]

I have seen similar behavior from other VB sites and assumed it was the same, i.e. phantom pages but no actual additional posts (so nobody is really missing anything, it's just a pagination error). In that case, we'd just live with it, because as you say, no big deal.

But some members have reported that there are in fact posts that have been made on the phantom pages that can't be seen (how they would know that is still not clear to me...), so I'm continuing to investigate.

[llondel]

http://www.llondel.org/jpgs/jb-phantom.png

This is what I currently see in the Jimmy Savile thread. Clearly another post has been added from the previous 1393 and then there's a link for a page 71.

Possibly admin accounts see something cleaner than non-admin accounts?

[Quizling]

Ibobi, another observation which I hope may help.

Jimmy Savile thread again at this time stands at 1395 on page 70, with a link to page 71 as shown in llondel's post above.

Jet Blast Main Menu (currently page 2) shows "Sir Jimmy Savile" thread as having 1402 replies. Clicking on "1402" brings up the "who has posted" window which correctly shows 1395 posts, so clearly there are two counters involved, one of which has lost it's way.

I've checked under two O/Ss in case this was all the result of Windoze, but got the same result with both.

I agree with earlier posters the "phantom" page issue is a very minor inconvenience to us as users, and indeed has been the source of some lighthearted fun in the TRABB thread, but I once did a job somewhat similar to yours and can remember how irritating niggles like this could be. :ok:

[henry_crun]

IBobi asked us to report phantom pages but I can't find the thread - so here's a new one.

Aircrew - Rotor heads - Police helicopter:
Phantom page 118 currently showing.

Social - Jet Blast - Last two letters:
We love phantom page jokes, please don't fix :p

[dubbleyew eight]

aren't the phantom pages just the pprune software preparing a new template for continuation of posts ?

[Saab Dastard]

They aren't phantom pages - there are real posts that are not easily accessible.

The problem is known and under investigation. Please report:

1. A link to the thread it's happening on
2. Your browser and version number
3. The time stamp of the most recent post you are able to view, and the member who made it
4. The page number of the most recent post, and the # of last page of the thread
6. We assume that when you are seeing this issue, you're logged in as the username you're reporting it as; if you're not logged in or logged in under another name, let us know
7. Any browser add-ons or plug-ins installed - e.g. ad blockers.
8. Your physical location (country)

Thanks

SD

[IBobi]

Henry, I am also seeing page 118, last post at the moment is #2345, timestamp 19th Feb 2014, 08:38by Lonewolf 50.

Is that not what you are seeing? I have never seen a phantom page and I'm trying to track one down. Please also report the data that Saab posted if you could -- it will help a lot in determining what the issue is.

[henry_crun]

IBobi - yes, page 418 is now filling up nicely. It was a phantom but now the posts have caught up and started to fill it.

What happens is the page generator gets a few posts ahead. For example on Last Two Letters we know it is one post ahead. Suppose we are on page 500. The phantom page 501 appears when we get to post 20 and then of course the next post is the first on page 501, no longer a phantom.

To view a phantom, simply go to a known phantom thread, usually a long one, and add posts until you get to post 20 on that page.

We suspect the page counter confusion originates from a deletion, either a post deleted by a mod, or a post deleted by the person who posted it. Part of the software thinks it is there and provides pages accordingly. Another part of the software puts posts on pages and knows that one is gone.

Pease don't fix Last Two Letters, we love our phantom and nurture it :p

[IBobi]

I just added posts until http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/520538-really-really-boring-totally-pointless-snippets-information-thread-xxii-472.html filled up to the end of the page, and it did not generate a phantom page.

Have you tried this? I did it in such a short period of time, there is no way it was corrected by the cleanup script. Having a really hard time reproducing this.

[henry_crun]

Hurrah - got one, it's kicking and struggling a bit but I trapped it in a zz-spiral-z-alpha spookomatic camera:

http://mike-wsm.org.uk/zpp127.jpg

As you can see it is on page 118 but is showing a phantom page 119 which will not actually appear until post 2361.

[IBobi]

Link to the thread please?

EDIT--scratch that, I got it and I can see the phantom page. But there are no "real posts" on that page -- it is the existing error we're aware of.

Thank you

[henry_crun]

Glad to help :ok:

[david1300]

Here's a live one today, just experienced:
http://i62.tinypic.com/2ep125g.jpg

1. A link to the thread it's happening on: War in Australia in JetBlast
2. Your browser and version number: Google Chrome - don't know version number
3. The time stamp of the most recent post you are able to view, and the member who made it - see piccie
4. The page number of the most recent post, and the # of last page of the thread - see piccie
6. We assume that when you are seeing this issue, you're logged in as the username you're reporting it as; if you're not logged in or logged in under another name, let us know - only 1 username: David1300
7. Any browser add-ons or plug-ins installed - e.g. ad blockers. Not that I'm aware of
8. Your physical location (country) Australia

[IBobi]

Thank you for that report David -- please keep them coming if you see them, everyone!

[coldair]

There's a few phantoms here ;

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/483614-top-world-photos-nepal-82.html

[BOAC]

ibobi - if you stick your head under the bonnet again, at 0948GMT http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost.html is showing 3 'missing' posts on a 'phantom page' (559 in my case) and if I click on the 'last post' blue icon it takes me to the top of the last active page.

Win7,64bit, Firefox28

Make this thread a sticky?

EDIT: For bonnet read 'hood', sorry..................

[PPRuNe Towers]

I use a cache cleaner and it's never so far failed to instantly get rid of a phantom page in the last few months. There has been a significant number, especially on the thread BOAC mentions, and has been an absolute boon.

Rob

[Booglebox]

Phantom page report! :8
1.http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/148910-global-jet-luxembourg-9.html
2. Firefox 24.6 ESR
3. 5th Aug 2012, 21:11 / "zerograv"
4. 9 and 10
6. N/A
7. Adblock Plus
8. Austria

[BOAC]

That's bizarre. The last post is the one shown by zerograv in 2012.

Let's hope IB can fix this like they did the 'search'.

[IBobi]

We'll take a look. I also see no evidence there are posts in the Global Luxembourg thread newer than 2012 -- are you sure they're there? I can't even fin the thread in the forum list at all either -- have to do a forum search to locate.

FYI, phantom page issues will continue to pop up and can't always be remedied. There is a glitch in VB and sometimes there is nothing to be done. But I will ask tech to job the server and see what happens.

Paul

[BOAC]

are you sure they're there? - no - that's the point - they ain't!

I can't even fin the thread in the forum list at all either -- have to do a forum search to locate. - just click on Boogle's link to save the pain.

[IBobi]

From tech:

This is running, should correct within 24 hours.

[BOAC]

Sorted, thanks IBobi - does tech know what the problem is in VB?

[IBobi]

Yes, and it's a core glitch that they can't address directly, thus the workaround of periodically re-running a cleanup script.

P.

[BOAC]

IBobi - your mods have been about with their machetes again on R&N - can tech run the script again soon?

[IBobi]

It has run again last night.

[Kbboca]

Can someone remind me how to clear my browser so as to view a "phantom page?" I seem to recall some workaround being posted once upon a time in either one of the AF447 threads or the MH370 thread.

Tonight, page 18 in the GermanWings crash in the French Alps thread will not display.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/558654-airbus-a320-crashed-southern-france-18.html

Instead, page 14 shows up.

Any help?

[PPRuNe Towers]

Find yourself a cache cleaning utility

Rob

[Dingo63]

Is this a Firefox thing, because I've been having trouble after reading a few pages.. I have to clear the cache/history and then start again and it fixes it. Weird.