Virgin Atlantic cutiing HKG-SYD route.

[Dan Winterland]

It seems a lot of the HKG based cabin crew will lose their jobs as well.

Virgin Atlantic to quit Australia, says Sydney flights ?unprofitable? - www.travelweekly.co.uk (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2014/02/04/46848/virgin-atlantic-to-quit-australia-says-sydney-flights.html)

[Near Miss]

Apparently V Australia (or whatever it is called) will be taking over the run. The HKG based crew will be taking part-time, or if not enough volunteer, half will be let go. :(

I wonder if CX can pick up a fifth SYD flight?

[cpahka]

the 5th ops SYD may go to HKA likely not Jet*!

[Freehills]

Presumably the traffic rights are UK ones, can't see them going to HKA/ CX/ Jet*HK

[Yonosoy Marinero]

Question is: who will be taking that LHR slot?

Time for a 6th London flight?

:}

[FERetd]

Yonosy Marinero Quote:- "Question is: who will be taking that LHR slot?"


I don't believe that there will be a LHR slot available. The HKG-SYD sector was a continuation of the LHR-HKG sector, which Virgin will continue to operate, I expect. I can't see Virgin giving that up.


You may have heard something different?

[Yonosoy Marinero]

Absolutely not. Just talking out of my arse.

The day I have any substantial or concrete piece of information, I won't be posting it here...

:ok:

Sucks for the based crew though. Are they locals or Brits? (Or both?)

[Killaroo]

cpahka the 5th ops SYD may go to HKA likely not Jet*!

Could indeed. Might even be part of a deal to allow Jet* an AOC in HK. I've said it before, I think a HK carrier getting additional rights to Australia is the most likely solution to that impasse.

[Fly747]

There is rumour of the furry worm being given some heavier weight 330s.

[Cpt. Underpants]

For those of you who have been around a while, you would recall that the CX trans Atlantic service (freighter) was contingent on a UK carrier being given 5th freedom Freedoms of the air - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air) to Australia.

If VS gives up the traffic rights from HKG to Oz, it falls to another UK carrier to pick them up. There is also a "use it or lose it" rule to consider - it takes a year of "neglect" before it's lost by default.

If it's up for grabs at all, my bet is on BA taking it - with the dugong.

[MrBernoulli]

On behalf of all dugongs out there, I would like to say that dugongs object to being likened to the Fuglybus A380.

[From a distance]

I think the reason Virgin has discontinued the HKG - SYD route is similar to the reasons that Qantas discontinued the kangaroo route via HKG, and for that matter also Air New Zealand stopping their through service to Heathrow. The Gulf airlines have made significant gains on the kangaroo route. The traffic that was being served by Virgin will now migrate to the Gulf carriers. I don't know that CX or any other HKG carrier will be able to take advantage of the cessation of Virgin's service.

[Basil]

my bet is on BA taking it - with the dugong
Woohoo! Suit me nicely, Sir! I fancy a little stop off in the Gay Bar en-route SYD :}

[Killaroo]

For those of you who have been around a while, you would recall that the CX trans Atlantic service (freighter) was contingent on a UK carrier being given 5th freedom Freedoms of the air - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia to Australia.

If VS gives up the traffic rights from HKG to Oz, it falls to another UK carrier to pick them up. There is also a "use it or lose it" rule to consider - it takes a year of "neglect" before it's lost by default.

If it's up for grabs at all, my bet is on BA taking it - with the dugong.


Really?
How would the HKG authorities dictate to the Australians about who can operate from London to Australia? I can see the argument for the London to HK route being grandfathered to another UK carrier. But the HK to Australia leg? Surely that's up to Australia?
And while such an arrangement might have been hammered out when CX was the only HK airline with long haul capability, that situation no longer applies. Why should the HK authorities negotiate bilaterals solely to facilitate CX?

Does CX still operate that TA freighter?

[Freehills]

Yep, really, if the flight is going via HK that is.

The OZ-UK and UK-OZ agreements will both have provision for UK airline to fly HKG-OZ, and OZ airline to fly HKG-UK. The HKG agreements with them will also allow it.

But unlikely any OZ or UK airline will bother. With ME carriers, MH/SQ/TG etc, lots of competition

[XFR8]

ZZZZzzzzzzz

[crwkunt roll]

Apparently V Australia (or whatever it is called) will be taking over the run. The HKG based crew will be taking part-time, or if not enough volunteer, half will be let go. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sowee.gif

I wonder if CX can pick up a fifth SYD flight?
There's still no extra flight if VA pick it up.

[Killaroo]

Yeah, but VA won't be going to London, and Freehills point seems to imply that it's a package deal. No cherry picking?

And does the airline picking this up have a slot ex LHR?
Landing rights only half the story.

The Jetstar AOC issue adds further potential complication to the mix.

Whatever might seem 'right' or 'fair', it's political, and I'll bet a lot of politicing is going on right now. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.

[Killaroo]

Nice article here from CAPA: Virgin Atlantic's withdrawal leaves BA as only European airline in Australia (http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/and-then-there-was-one-virgin-atlantics-withdrawal-leaves-ba-as-only-european-airline-in-australia-151240)

Virgin's future partnership option for Australia – and Asia – is unclear

European carriers have exited Australia physically but not virtually – codeshares proliferate, and the Australian government is reasonably liberal with codeshare allocations. KLM for example serves Australia with codes on China Southern, Etihad and Malaysia Airlines. (In a powerful display of virtual strategy, Etihad’s Sydney service carries eight codeshares, not counting Air New Zealand or Virgin Australia.)

So does Virgin create a partnership for Australia? One seemingly obvious answer is to link Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Australia by having Virgin Australia serve Hong Kong – which it had considered in the early days of its Virgin Australia long-haul operation, when Virgin Group influence in the Australian airline was greater.

But this is far from clear-cut. Virgin Australia would be entering a competitive market: Cathay has four daily flights from Sydney alone, and can show fierce competitive responses to new carriers. Cathay's size and network also means such responses can be relatively aggressively priced. Qantas’ Hong Kong network is also in an adjustment phase with the discontinuation of service to London; Hong Kong is sold as a destination or for Qantas’ limited onward traffic options.

Even aside from the competitive element, London-Sydney traffic is likely too small for Virgin Australia to rely on with just Virgin Atlantic. Onward feed to other cities could be limited. There is little justification for Virgin Australia to enter Hong Kong. And if it did, some fundamental problems would remain, such as the range of destinations that could be served.

Being without a global alliance, there is no logical other partner for Virgin Atlantic to turn to. Theoretically, as a new satellite of Delta, SkyTeam is a logical place to look; but KLM and Air France already have their positions in the market, as do the other SkyTeam members in Asia, so working with the always tough Virgin Group will not be a preferred choice.

Virgin Atlantic has its history of commercial relations with Malaysia Airlines, but Virgin no longer flies to Kuala Lumpur. In Hong Kong, Cathay is working with BA while Hong Kong Airlines has Australian ambitions but lacks traffic rights. Elsewhere in Asia, Virgin flies to Shanghai, but locally based carrier China Eastern partners with Qantas. Virgin also flies to Tokyo, but only JAL – another Qantas partner – flies to Australia. Virgin’s other points in the region (India, with limited Air India service; Dubai, where Emirates partners with Qantas) present no straightforward solution.

Alliances and partnerships have expanded outside of traditional lines, but Virgin would ultimately need a creative solution for what is a small market. This would come as Virgin faces enough internal tasks as it restructures its business. From a revenue perspective, an Australian solution should be low on the list of priorities.

[Pontius]

If it's up for grabs at all, my bet is on BA taking it - with the dugong.

BA, until fairly recently, had two 744s per day to SYD; one from SIN, one from BKK. The SIN service now uses a 777 and the BKK has been cancelled. So, two jumbos to one 777 and you think BA would increase capacity on the route with a dugong? I, personally, wouldn't be putting too much money on that scenario :)

With the OneWorld capacity available through CX and QF (flying with EK/QF), my prediction is BA won't be adding any capacity to Oz.

[SMOC]

Plus BA code shares on I think every CX flight to Australia except Adelaide.