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Zapatas Blood
4th Feb 2014, 17:08
Thought I would vent my frustration with aviation and airline flying in particular.

No, Im not a nube and these don't apply to me but:

Why do airlines have requirements of hours instead of sectors. I can understand hours were important in the days of hand flying a DC3 but in this day and age, wouldn't you think the number of sectors under ones belt is more important to a prospective employer than the number of hours spent counting the waves in a straight line?

Do you ever need to know the formula for aquaplaning? Has that information ever been of assistance to you?

Do you really need to know the temp at which the engine overtemps? Isn't an overtemp when it goes . . . . . . RED?

Feel free to add more . . . .

cavortingcheetah
4th Feb 2014, 17:15
Quite agree!
All those long haul auto pilot adept androids who number their achievements in hours sitting whilst reading the newspaper rather than those with trillions of sectors and zillions of take offs and landings, the short haul gods of the skies.

Fantome
4th Feb 2014, 17:45
Joe Kovacs spread countless thousands of tons of super phosphate out and onto the wide brown land. For something like forty years he applied it and himself. Without a scratch to the man or his mount. He logged about 38,000 hours but in fact probably did something nearer 50,000 or 60,000.

Yep . .. . it shouldn't be allowed to count for much . .. . sitting there for hour after hour after hour just seeing the ship stays on course and pressing hostess call for refreshment . To alleviate the boredom.

Mac the Knife
4th Feb 2014, 17:52
"...sitting there for hour after hour after hour just seeing the ship stays on course and pressing hostess call for refreshment..."

And wondering what the fcuk all those computers are up to and what the fcuk you are going to do when they get confused...

Mac

:ok:

Quizling
4th Feb 2014, 19:46
And wondering what the fcuk all those computers are up to and knowing you will fcuk it all up when they get confused...

Fixed it for you. :ok:

Gertrude the Wombat
4th Feb 2014, 19:59
Yep . .. . it shouldn't be allowed to count for much . .. . sitting there for hour after hour after hour just seeing the ship stays on course and pressing hostess call for refreshment
Ah, but think of the responsibility.

The real job is to make sure you treat an iced-up pitot as a non-event, and refrain from stalling it into the ocean. Much more of a challenge than all those boring approaches, landings etc.

ExSp33db1rd
4th Feb 2014, 20:06
Isn't an overtemp when it goes . . . . . . RED?Red ? what, the gauge or the engine ?

.......wouldn't you think the number of sectors.........or just count the number of take-offs ( if you're still around to do the addition, this would also equal the number of landings )

Not just aviation, how many have ever used Algebra since they left school, or Latin ( except to participate in the Roman Numeral Thread ) ?

Shaggy Sheep Driver
4th Feb 2014, 20:14
I have heard that many airline pilots are actually not allowed to fly these days. Their company bean counters have mandated that the computers can do it more consistently, more smoothly, and more cheaply (less wear and tear on engines, lower fuel burn).

So if they don't need to fly they don't need to learn how to. Or to stay current on stick, rudder, and throttle if they do happen to have some aviating skills.

Big problems then if the computers chuck in the towel (AF447)

Or even if they don't (Colgan 3407).

A problem that's got to get worse as the old hands (the 'Sullenbergers') retire.

Maybe they should be reading 'Stick & Rudder' during all those hours behind the AP?

500N
4th Feb 2014, 20:20
Shaggy

Hence the bean counters putting a dog in the cockpit ? :O

Checkboard
4th Feb 2014, 20:20
By the time you have enough experience to worry if you are counting hours or sectors it no longer matters.

Mechta
4th Feb 2014, 20:34
Many decades ago I read in Uncle Roger's column the two most used phrases on the flight deck:
"What's it doing now?"
and
"Did you make it do that?"
Time stands still.

I was under the impression that the second phrase was, 'She's new, isn't she?' Maybe Uncle Roger revised it for further increases in automation and locked cockpit doors? I wouldn't mind betting that whichever version you go for is not far from the truth.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
4th Feb 2014, 20:52
Don't know if it's true or not but this was supposedly heard from an Airbus crew to Tower, when on short final:

"It's going around, Modair 592"

"Modair 592 roger. What are your intentions?"

"Go with it, I suppose, Modair 592".

parabellum
4th Feb 2014, 21:14
Checkboard has it in one - after the first 5000, sectors/hours are completely irrelevant.

axefurabz
4th Feb 2014, 22:02
"It's going around, Modair 592"

"Modair 592 roger. What are your intentions?"

"Go with it, I suppose, Modair 592".

My keyboard (and monitor) are hugely grateful that there was no liquid in my mouth when I read that!! :D

Metro man
4th Feb 2014, 23:44
easyJet factor applicants hours to gauge their "real" experience when applying. for example hours flown on short haul airline jets are most highly regarded and count at the rate of 90% of the time logged, where as single pilot helicopter time is less useful and only counted at 10%. Long haul airline time comes out at 60% or 70% as it is less intensive and fewer take off and landings are logged.

Two's in
5th Feb 2014, 00:14
Take some time to read the AAIB and NTSB archives before you confuse experience with competence. Sometimes the same, sometimes very different.

gupta
5th Feb 2014, 00:14
Hence the old saying:

Do you have 25,000 hours experience or one hour's experience repeated 25,000 times?

Pontius
5th Feb 2014, 01:27
What would be interesting is to see how many of the posters here have actually flown longhaul or, for that matter, shorthaul or even an airliner. There's so much crap written nowadays on the Internet that becomes, first, common 'knowledge' ("a mate told me") and then law that many simply regurgitate the same crap without having any experience of actually doing it.

Loose rivets
5th Feb 2014, 03:13
Nine times the square root of the tire pressure!

I'm soooooooo glad I learned that. You have no idea how impressed folk are at the dinner table when I come out with factoids like that. In one case, a young lady was completely overwhelmed and instantly stripped and covered herself in mayonnaise, knowing my salads are in fact a single leaf of spinach pushed into a jar of Hellman's.

Mmm . . . was it nine times, or seven . . . or fourty-two? It's the mayonnaise, it affects the headbone's contents. :confused:

cavortingcheetah
5th Feb 2014, 03:46
Pontius:
It's a fair point of interest although it little affects the content of the writing.
Various short haul airliners, thousands of sectors, thousands of hours.

parabellum
5th Feb 2014, 03:46
helicopter time is less useful and only counted at 10%


How utterly stupid, (not having a go at the messenger), the blades rotate in excess of Mach .73 and the flying is all hands and feet on with a high degree of coordination as well as being relatively close to the ground, requiring maximum attention, surely such flying is worth infinitely more than sitting in the RHS at FL350 guarding the radios and running a fuel plot?

MagnusP
5th Feb 2014, 10:03
how many have ever used Algebra since they left school, or Latin

Well, I used algebra (and the rest of the mathematics and some of the physics and chemistry) a lot as an engineer, and now have to use some Latin in a law library. French is handy when in Paris, Russian was only ever used to get an easy humanities subject at uni, I maintain an interest in history and geography. Not much of my school time was wasted except the hours I spent trying to get May J******* to go out with me. Complete waste of time, that was. :{