Apple OS X upgrade ?

[SpringHeeledJack]

Luddite that I am, my 2008 dual-core 2.4ghz MacBook Pro runs 10.6.8 and all in all for my needs, I'm happy enough. However as time goes by I do wonder if it would it be worth upgrading my OS, as in to Lion, Mountain Lion, Mavericks (which Apple are prompting me to upgrade all the time) or would that make my faithful steed more bloated and slow ?



SHJ

[Sunnyjohn]

I would certainly upgrade to Lion. The difference between Lion and Mountain Lion is not exceptional and may not give you too much improvement in performance. A large proportion of improvements in Mavericks are aimed at synchronising your Mac with mobile devices; if you do not use any of these, you may not notice much improvement. However, as time goes by, new apps are often designed only for the latest version of OSX and you may find incompatibilities with an app you have seen and would like to use.

[Mac the Knife]

OS X actually slimmed down with Snow Leopard as the "Rosetta" support for PowerPC Macs was removed!

You may not even be able to upgrade - I have a dual-core Black MacBook of about the same vintage that seemingly won't go higher than Snow Leopard... :sad:

Yes, there are incompatibilities with some older old apps (Apple don't make a fetish of backwards compatibility) but if you can, do - there are lots of speedups and enhancements (and security tweaks).

Interesting that Mavericks was, (for the first time) offered as a free upgrade.

Mac

:ok:

[mixture]

10.6.8 and all in all for my needs, I'm happy enough. However as time goes by I do wonder if it would it be worth upgrading my OS, as in to Lion, Mountain Lion, Mavericks

Absolutely....

Everything from 10.0 to 10.7 was a work in progress..... perfectly good, but with improvements being made all the time.

10.8 and 10.9 are however a different kettle of fish. Much more refined, more optimised .... great iterations of OS X indeed.

Up until recently, I was running 10.8 on a 3.06 Ghz 2009 vintage MacBook Pro and it worked perfectly well (well, as well as you could expect on a vintage machine..... but it was not particularly slow .. intact, if anything, upgrading to 10.8 actually made a positive difference). But do check the tech requirements against your particular machine.

Yes, there are incompatibilities with some older old apps (Apple don't make a fetish of backwards compatibility)

Actually they do ! Apple gradually phase out APIs rather than just suddenly removing them. Its either lazy developers failing to keep up or lazy users who can't be bothered to update who are the problem.

[mad_jock]

As there are 386`s out there running linux its hardly suprising it works. As long as they can be bothered putting legacy hardware drivers in you will be fine.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Thanks for all the replies. Obviously the stable updated OS's will be an improvement from 10.6.8, but sometimes reading the problems of others who have upgraded and wish they hadn't for various reasons, one's slow adaption to progress is tweaked.

My steed has a 2.4ghz Intel Core 2 Duo and 4GB 667Mhz DDR2 SDRAM. Would any of you experts think that would be enough reasonable capability to stand an upgrade of the OS ? I know that I could look on line, but rather prefer the experiences and tips of people I know :p



SHJ

[Background Noise]

That should be fine - I have 10.8 on a 2008 MacBook (vice MacBook Pro) of similar vintage. Anyway you appear to meet the spec here: OS X Mountain Lion - Apple Store (UK) (http://store.apple.com/uk/product/D6377ZM/A/os-x-mountain-lion)

You don't need to worry that it won't cope - as has been said the OS has got better over time. There will be the usual frustrations which seem annoying at first but you soon realise that most changes are for the better. I think there was a reversal of screen scrolling direction in one of those updates, to match the way iOS devices scroll, which was one of those that you had to get used to. (Now I wonder how I coped without it).

The problem might be that you have to have Lion (10.7) installed to upgrade to Mountain Lion (10.8) which is a pain. I don't think you can go straight from Snow Leopard (10.6) to ML. Someone may correct that. They are not expensive, even if you have to buy both, it just takes twice as along. I recently started afresh on an old iMac and had to (re)purchase Snow Leopard just to get it back to Lion (because I'd lost my SL disc).

Other than time, the update process is simple. You lose nothing, settings and passwords etc remain, no starting again. Although it is obviously a good idea to have everything backed up just in case.

[mixture]

The problem might be that you have to have Lion (10.7) installed to upgrade to Mountain Lion (10.8) which is a pain. I don't think you can go straight from Snow Leopard (10.6) to ML. Someone may correct that.

Correct. Also bear in mind that the outgoing OS X 10.7 needs to be fully patched up too... you can't just bung in a 10.7 disk and then update to 10.8. It needs to be patched up to the latest 10.7.(x) iteration.

May be less hassle to jut backup files and go for a clean install instead of an upgrade (well, you should have a backup routine in place already anyway !).

I think there was a reversal of screen scrolling direction in one of those updates, to match the way iOS devices scroll, which was one of those that you had to get used to. (Now I wonder how I coped without it).


You can change this back to the old settings easily in System Preferences.

[Background Noise]

That was part of my question - can you do a clean install of Mountain Lion? Since it is app store only I thought you had to start with something already installed (and updated as you said).

[mixture]

If you've got access to another mac with App Store and the 10.8 / Mountain Lion installer downloaded, you can certainly create a DVD from that and do a clean install.

[SpringHeeledJack]

All very interesting, and like I say personal experience means a lot, or at least more than the company's info which although detailed is often slanted towards their favour.

So, bearing in mind one's spec, would it be better to stick with an upgrade to Lion OR should I jump again and go straight to Mountain Lion ? I just don't want to be suffering from the MBP not being able to keep up due to processor size and speed.


SHJ

[Background Noise]

Based on what Mixture says - that up to Lion was WIP, and Mountain Lion was the better system, and my experiences with Mountain Lion I think that's the one to aim for. As we say, you might have to do both so you can see what Lion is like as a first step.

[mixture]

SpringHeeledJack,

The honest answer is its hard to say.

From a technical point of view, since OS X is a BSD based platform, its quite efficient anyway. In terms of the OS X improvements 10.8, I think it was one of the best OS's yet in terms of optimisation and stability.

Perhaps the other important element to consider is software and security updates. 10.6 has almost certainly lapsed and OS X 10.7 probably heading that way although one or two updates were released for it in 2013.

I would probably go for it as I'm fairly confident there shouldn't be any performance issues. However I would say make sure you have good backups, and make sure you check with your third party software suppliers that their stuff is compatible with whatever you decide to (most stuff is and stuff that is not can generally be updated).

[SpringHeeledJack]

I would probably go for it as I'm fairly confident there shouldn't be any performance issues. However I would say make sure you have good backups, and make sure you check with your third party software suppliers that their stuff is compatible with whatever you decide to (most stuff is and stuff that is not can generally be updated).

By your command sir :8 However, after purchasing said software, Apple informed me that it would be 'delivered' in 1-3 business days :hmm: Bearing in mind that I paid last wednesday and we've just had a weekend, it is now the best part of 5 days gone without any satisfaction. The Apple/customer relationship has always been very good, so why on earth would they need more than a few seconds after being paid to send a link to the download instead of days ?


SHJ

[mixture]

SpringHeeledJack,

1-3 days for something you've purchased via AppStore ? Never heard of or experienced that.

Suggest you get in touch with Customer Service.... they're normally very helpful

[SpringHeeledJack]

It could only be purchase on the Apple Store, rather than the App Store and as the software is only downloadable, rather than physically delivered they seem to have a standard 1-3 business days mantra....Maybe I've slipped through the system ? I'll get onto customer service later after I deal with solid things instead of virtual ;)


SHJ

[mixture]

I'd be surprised if they're shipping it from China !

[Booglebox]

To run 10.9 you need a 64-bit EFI in your Mac.
Here is the official list:

• iMac — Mid-2007 or later
• MacBook
— 13-inch Aluminum, Late 2008
— 13-inch, Early 2009 or later
• MacBook Pro
— 13-inch, Mid-2009 or later
– 15-inch, Mid/Late 2007 or later
— 17-inch, Late 2007 or later
• MacBook Air — Late 2008 or later
• Mac Mini — Early 2009 or later
• Mac Pro — Early 2008 or later
1st-gen plastic Macbooks are not compatible :sad: (shame, they are great machines)

[SpringHeeledJack]

Maybe it's just me, maybe Apple like to make the 'download deliveries' above and beyond most internet fraud efforts but.........So after 3 days exactly I have received 2 emails, one with a code, another with a PDF that only opens with the code. Once opened the PDF has in not so obvious text a code that must then be entered on the AppStore 'redeem' quicklink and only then does it start downloading! FFS! :ugh: It's downloading as I type, but apart from seeing that something is downloading there is no indication where on the computer that this might be. All very difficult for a luddite :hmm:



SHJ

[SpringHeeledJack]

So…many hours later, ML is installed and the system seems nippier than my previous, which is good. Two questions to the panel 1) How do I make a hard copy of the install disk for future disk utility uses etc ? 2) where has the access to 'library' gone ? That is the library that gave access to all things.


SHJ

[mixture]

1) How do I make a hard copy of the install disk for future disk utility uses etc ?

OS X downloaded from the AppStore gets saved into your Applications folder. Although I can't remember if the installer cleans itself up after the upgrade, I don't think it does but if it does, you'll need to redownload from the App store (from memory its as simple as browsing your history and holding down the option key).

You've got two choices from here :

- Backup the installer App package itself through simple drag & drop

- Backup the ISO disk image contained within the App package. In order to do so you need to "explore" the App and dig out the ISO from its innards (Show Package Contents -> Contents -> SharedSupport -> InstallESD.dmg)... then you can either backup the ISO through drag & drop or burn the image to disk using Disk Utility if you want something bootable.

2) where has the access to 'library' gone ? That is the library that gave access to all things.


As in "library/Application Support" and all that jazz ? Its still there, just hidden by default.

Try Go -> Go to Folder (or shift-command-g) -> "~/Library" (or "/Library" for the system wide one).

No doubt there's a way to turn off the hiding, just I've never used it as I just go to the command line when I want to do serious stuff (a quick Googoo suggests the answer might be defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles YES followed by HUP'ing the Finder to refresh ..... again, at your own risk as I've never tried it)

[Sunnyjohn]

No doubt there's a way to turn off the hiding Lion Designer will do this for you. It's a simple and basic free app and also gives you options to change aspects of your Finder:
Moritz Wette - Lion Designer - Customize new features of Mac OS X Lion and Mountain Lion (http://moritzwette.com/liondesigner/)

[SpringHeeledJack]

An interesting feature happened to show itself earlier, when having to repair a volume the OS prompted me to restart with command R pressed and go straight into Disk Utility to repair said volume! I always had to do it from an external disk/whatever before to be outside the computer to do this, although fixing permissions/verifying volumes etc was possible.


SHJ

[ExXB]

As in "library/Application Support" and all that jazz ? Its still there, just hidden by default.

Try Go -> Go to Folder (or shift-command-g) -> "~/Library" (or "/Library" for the system wide one).



or, even easier, when in the Finder hold down the alt/option key and click on GO - its on the menu list about half-way down.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Well all things considered the upgrade has been relatively easy from the user point of view, pretty much all my older software has been upgraded and a few lesser used bits sent off to the trash. However, my FCP 4.5HD has a white circle 'no entry' symbol on it and 'this OS no longer supports power pc software' which makes me wonder. I've been using it sporadically on this intel machine and it was definitely working on snow leopard…..mysterious.

Assuming that I cannot use 4.5 again, is it possible to upgrade to a later version (paid) or am I now left in a no-man's land of old and the latest FCP X would anyone know ? The Apple pages for everything FCP seem not to show any path forwards except the latest version which needs Mavericks etc.


SHJ

[mixture]

I've been using it sporadically on this intel machine and it was definitely working on snow leopard…..mysterious.


There used to be something called Rosetta in the older versions of OS X.

This enabled Intel platforms to interpret PowerPC binaries. In technical terms it was a dynamic binary translator.... hence the name Rosetta in reference to that ancient rock some archeologist tripped over whilst playing in his sandpit.

The downside is that the impact on system performance as well as padding up the system with unnecessary code bloat. So after leaving Rosetta for a few years in order to give PowerPC both developers and users the chance to migrate to the Intel architectures, Apple eventually eliminated the Rosetta code entirely in the most modern releases.

So that's why it did and doesn't.

Its removal is a good thing, both developer and user, writing and using natively compiled binaries is always going to be better for both performance and stability.

As for FCP, I'll have a dig around and come back and update....

Update:

I think your chances are limited for upgrade pricing since you haven't bothered to upgrade since 4.x and there have been versions up to 7.x on the legacy branch and now X which was fully rewritten from the ground up. So it's not like you would be looking to upgrade from one or two versions back... you're quite a way back, few vendors would support that sort of upgrade policy.

Your options are to either bite the bullet an go for X or look at Adobe Premiere under the Creative Cloud programme..... I believe you can rent single applications from Adobe without having to rent the whole suite.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Thanks for the explanation mr mixture, as ever your encyclopaedic knowledge explained things so that they made sense to me. Rosetta, that was a good name whoever chose that! I fear that you are correct regarding the possible upgrade, but at least the price of FCP now is a 5th of that which I paid for the original one a good few years back.



SHJ

[mixture]

but at least the price of FCP now is a 5th of that which I paid for the original one a good few years back.

Tell me about it... I was doing some spring (well, mid-winter) cleaning and ended up disposing of one of those black cube FCP boxes for which you pay much less today !

Same thing with an old QuarkXPress desktop publishing box. Unlike Apple, Quark didn't put up much of a fight against Adobe and a hefty proportion of its users migrated over to InDesign.

I haven't used FCP X (only because I don't do much video editing any more) but from what I hear Apple have done a good job of it and are giving Adobe Premiere a run for its money. And indeed, with the advent of the Adobe Cloud, many people are looking around for non-subscription perpetual use options.

As I'm sure you are doubtless aware, you can trial FCP X by going here on the Apple website (https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/trial/)....

[SpringHeeledJack]

A question for the enlightened…..Whilst looking through my hard drive home folders in Mountain Lion I chanced upon the 'Lost and Found' folder and curiosity got the better of me and I looked inside. To my surprise there was a file called iNodexxxxxx and it was 4.45GB in size!!!. A quick look on the inter web didn't really fill me with joy, so I thought (as usual :8 ) that I might get a sane answer here.



SHJ

[rgbrock1]

SHJ:

The "lost and found" directory/folder usually contains files whose index may have been corrupted. This is usually output after disk health verification.
My guess is this is an archive file of the Mountain Lion installer.

I would recommend deleting the file - but don't empty the trash yet - and then restarting your Mac. After the restart if everything seems to function okay then you can go ahead and empty the trash with the file inside.

[le Pingouin]

"Lost and found" is where the broken bits found by a file system check are placed. You usually get them if you've had a system crash or power failure leaving a file not fully deleted. From the size possibly a disc image of some sort?

[SpringHeeledJack]

Thanks for the replies chaps, the 4.45GB size fits perfectly with the OS X installer file, but as to why it should be misplaced there I know not. I've not had any power failures, apart from letting the battery run down to 0% and then reconnecting the power cord. As of yet I'm not brave enough to delete it in case I make more trouble :hmm:



SHJ

[le Pingouin]

The file is sitting in "Lost and Found" so as far as your computer is concerned it's just a piece of unknown detritus awaiting deletion or retention by yourself and will just remain untouched until you do.

The idea is you examine the files to recover content you don't want to lose, such as something your were working on during a crash or if you've lost some important data with no back-up.

Assuming it is the Mountain Lion installer you'll need to verify the checksum is correct as the file may be incomplete, rendering it useless. You can always download another. The installation image is deleted as part of the upgrade process so if the system reboots before deletion is complete the image will end up in "Lost and Found".

[Mac the Knife]

Well, my recent experiences of an OS X upgrade have been "interesting"

Snow Leopard on my old black MacBook (2.4 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo/4GB RAM/500GB WD HDD)
"Nonstandard" in that I had 2 partions, one for System and one for Data (home)
SN support discontinued. Buy Lion for $20. Download (and make a copies) of the .app file.
Connect new WD 500GB HDD by USB - make single partition, install Lion, boot from new HDD, looks OK, use Migration Wizard, looks OK but still referencing Data\Home for my stuff. Copy over Home [cp -npRv "Volumes/Data/Users/andrew" "/Users/andrew"] and tell Lion that is where my stuff is. Reboot, Lion now very unhappy, can't find all sorts of stuff.

Hmm... Start again. Put new HDD in machine, start from old drive on USB, install Lion on new HDD.
Do import as part of install. Better, but Lion still using Data\Home for my stuff.
Copy Home over to Users again and tell Lion THAT is where my stuff is. Reboot.
Well, sort of OK but not really happy. Parallels has to be reinstalled because it is confused.
Repair permissions - takes yonks. Lion now want to "update" itself - huge "update" takes yonks.

Seems OK now, but Time Machine stalling/confused backing up to ReadyNAS (fine under Snow Leopard).

Hey ho - time to delete a .plist or two & see how we do.

Evidently the OS X install routines don't cater for ~\Users\yourname being somewhere else!

Mac

So not straightforward if you've split your data off from the system (which I personally think is best practice, though it is obviously better to have two separate drives)

[mixture]

Mac,

I think the problem is not necessarily Apple's but yours.

I mean, why on earth are you messing around with trying to move the user's home folder ? If you want your "data" elsewhere, and particularly if that "elsewhere" is a removable drive, then just store it elsewhere and symlink to it from wherever you want it.

It is very straightforward to split your data off the system... I keep hardly anything under ~/Users.... but just do it properly and within the constraints of a BSD/Linux type system.

Edit to add: I think I once upon a time saw a way to safely and properly tell OS X that you've moved your user's home dir somewhere else (I'm pretty sure I've definitley seen that option under OS X server, but whether you can (or should) do it on an unmanaged client is another matter).