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SpringHeeledJack
2nd Feb 2014, 17:58
BBC News - Actor Philip Seymour Hoffman dies (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26009575)

Wow......To my mind a serious and committed actor who loved his craft and took on really diverse and deep roles. My favorites though are in lighter hearted efforts "Boogie Nights", in the lame "And along came Polly" where he stole the show and yes even "The Big Lebowski" RIP dude.



SHJ

Hempy
2nd Feb 2014, 18:14
Found with the heroin needle still in his arm...

I don't get it, I wont even get a flu shot!

Ozzy
2nd Feb 2014, 20:01
Found with a needle in his arm on the bathroom floor. Heroin found in the apartment. He was on and off addict just out of rehab. What a waste of life. It hits some of the worst and some of the best. Not judging.

Ozzy

West Coast
2nd Feb 2014, 20:18
Feel sorry for family and friends, but given this was a choice, I don't feel sorry for him.

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK
2nd Feb 2014, 20:22
Just occasionally, West Coast and I agree on things.

What a waste of talent and quite selfishly. I'll never understand hard drugs or the need to take them.

NRU74
2nd Feb 2014, 20:54
It's quite common for drug users to recover consciousness after injecting drugs to find the needle still in their arm
In the UK the 'good' feeling after injecting prior to going semi or completely unconscious is known as 'gauching' (not sure of the spelling).

BenThere
2nd Feb 2014, 21:00
What I always said about crack and heroin, "if it's that good I don't want to know".

Sympathies for his family who must have seen him as their bright star. Sadness for yet another victim of the drug trade.

TBirdFrank
2nd Feb 2014, 21:04
Yep - I wasted three years trying to save a friend from her addiction to the bottle.

Or did I?

Perhaps it was a frustrating challenging optimistic fight against the inevitable that no-one else would try.

Thank God neither the powder nor the bottle got to me! but boy did I learn a lot - but I still don't understand!

bcgallacher
3rd Feb 2014, 05:20
T bird - I know what you experienced as I lost my first wife to the bottle,it leaves an immense sense of failure along with the grief. As far as the actor is concerned - he made the choice to take drugs,in spite of being called a genius etc in obituaries ,he died on his toilet floor with a needle in his arm leaving 3 children without a father - hardly a genius - just another addict that miscalculated.

Burnie5204
3rd Feb 2014, 05:47
The strange thing is that 2 days ago (Saturday) he is reported to have been the victim of one of those online death hoaxes.

So on Saturday his management are being hounded about claims he is dead which they obviously deny and then Sunday they have to break the news that he actually is dead.

SpringHeeledJack
3rd Feb 2014, 07:22
Perhaps the news of the hoax death tipped him over into a depressive cycle and he decided to 'try his luck' at the heroin roulette wheel ? Sad whatever....



SHJ

Alloa Akbar
3rd Feb 2014, 09:38
I liked him as an actor, and I was saddened to read of his death.. right up to the part where I saw "heroin overdose".

I thought he was brilliant in Charlie Wilson's War.. hilarious.

G-CPTN
3rd Feb 2014, 09:44
Hoffman revealed that he had suffered from drug and alcohol abuse after graduating from college, and went to rehab for drug and alcohol addiction, recovering at age 22.
He said he had abused "anything I could get my hands on. I liked it all."

sitigeltfel
3rd Feb 2014, 09:52
He said he had abused "anything I could get my hands on. I liked it all."

Still waiting for Woody Allen to admit to that! :hmm:

aviate1138
3rd Feb 2014, 10:44
Movie making involves many supporting technicians, camera, make up, visual effects, costume etc.

Technicians views are often opposed to the media manipulated ones that are rarely true.

A technician pal in Hollywood sent me this email recently.

"I worked with him twice and believe me he was a self centered arsehole, rude, obnoxious, and a recovering alcoholic that really didnít want to get sober. He died as he lived, with a needle stuck in his arm. I think that about says it all."

His partner probably deserves a medal or two. The three kids deserved better in a father.

Why do so many actors chase demons and yet provide some 'movie magic' scenes?

A sad end to glittering series of roles....

SawMan
3rd Feb 2014, 11:48
Why do so many actors chase demons and yet provide some 'movie magic' scenes?

Artists of any kind- actors, painters, musicians etal- are a different sort of people than most, and especially concerning their art. I don't know why but many are drawn into 'feely-good' things and it takes many of therm from our midst :( These folks seem to think it enhances their abilities, but knowing some artistic types well I never saw that. All it did for them is make them feel good which made it easier for them to do their thing, not make it possible in the first place. Being a recovered alcoholic myself I have to agree with West Coast- he did it to himself totally oblivious to how it would affect the people who loved him. That's pretty selfish and pretty unforgivable to me. That does not diminish the greatness of what he did.

I've saved a few from addictions and lost many more- my best friend of 23 years was an artist and died from drugs. Nothing I could do or say or try worked to save him and it still hurts many years later. He knew the risks, he took his chances, and he lost the game but he knew what he was betting and it was his life to live however he saw fit. Sometimes these people give up on themselves, so it's up to those close to them to never do that- without our support and caring they won't have any chance.

A loss and a needless one. A shame that it happened. But life goes on for the rest of us with a lesson to be learned- nobody is immune to having an addiction.

Lonewolf_50
3rd Feb 2014, 13:01
A loss, and a needful one.

Every so often, a high profile celeb becoming dead due to drug abuse is a wake up call to those who could use a reason not to use and abuse.

Decent actor, threw away his own life. Feel sad for the kids. :uhoh:

airship
3rd Feb 2014, 13:38
Hmmm, no reports yet of Dustin Hoffman making any comment. Apparently they're unrelated.

From the depths of my convoluted mind, I can already feel some here reaching for their quick-draw keyboards and replying: "Sorry to pour cold rain on your snide comments man. But..."

dazdaz1
3rd Feb 2014, 14:52
With all due respect, I've never heard of this actor. Seems to be big in the US, movie fan I am. I'm 'scratching my head' trying to recall main stream movies of this actor?

With respects to his family.

SASless
3rd Feb 2014, 14:58
No pity whatsoever....not bothered in the least by his death related to drug use.

On the human side I do have regret his Children shall have to carry this with them the rest of their Lives.....Parents.....set the right Example for your Children!

As I see it....he was a gross failure in the most important obligation he had in this World....doing right by his Children.

No amount of success as an Actor can make up for that.

Mariner9
3rd Feb 2014, 15:14
Sad for his family undoubtedly, but just another pointless drug-related death, 99.999% of which barely make even the local news in the area concerned.

Quite why this is front page headline news in the UK is beyond me.

Tankertrashnav
3rd Feb 2014, 15:49
Same here dazdaz - the name (or the face) meant nothing to me either. My daughter nagged me into watching The Talented Mr Ripley, but I never made it to the end, much to her amazement. Must be a generation thing. Anyway, I never cease to be amazed at how ignorant I am!

Mechta
3rd Feb 2014, 15:52
Nothing I could do or say or try worked to save him and it still hurts many years later. He knew the risks, he took his chances, and he lost the game but he knew what he was betting and it was his life to live however he saw fit. Sometimes these people give up on themselves, so it's up to those close to them to never do that- without our support and caring they won't have any chance. The above could equally apply to fast jet, agricultural, bush, aerobatic, hang glider, paraglider, homebuilt and even light aircraft pilots. Unless you are the aircraft's owner and maintainer, the drug user and the pilot are both reliant on the honesty of another for the quality product they are using. In one case, the 'other' is more likely to be a selfish scumbag with no morals though.

Andy_S
3rd Feb 2014, 16:18
With all due respect, I've never heard of this actor. Seems to be big in the US, movie fan I am. I'm 'scratching my head' trying to recall main stream movies of this actor?

He generally avoided 'blockbuster' type movies, but nevertheless had roles in some well known films; Boogie Nights, The Big Lebowski, Magnolia, Cold Mountain, Charlie Wilsons War, Doubt, The Boat That Rocked.....

Many of those featured PSH in supporting roles, but he did win the Oscar for best lead in Capote.

dazdaz1
3rd Feb 2014, 16:43
Andy.... " Boogie Nights?".... Mark Kermode (film critic) dissed it more than 'Holiday on the Buses' I've seen film extras who should command more recognition.

Again, all jumping on the band wagon for the publicity of a past actor passing.

Lonewolf_50
3rd Feb 2014, 16:53
P.S. Hoffman was in a movie with Al Pacino (Scent of a Woman) in which he portrayed an annoying prep school jerk with no backbone.
He was believable.

I have a slight warm spot for him, only recently, because of the role he played in the Tom Hanks film about supporting the mujahadeen in Afghanistan: Charlie Wilson's War.

He played the role of Gus, a character built around a very real person who worked that mission. I have a few friends who know Gus personally and professionally. Their take was that he did Gus justice ... which is hard to do, given how Hollylwood so often takes obscene liberties with facts and people. For his efforts on that score, my estimation of this particular Hollywood person was more positive than negative.

I have not seen that Mr Ripley movie, but my wife has. She likes Matt Damon, but she found that movie a bit difficult to swallow.

SpringHeeledJack
3rd Feb 2014, 17:35
As an actor he was one of the few who could totally make you empathise with the character that he was portraying. Due to his physique and looks he was almost never going to get the leading man role, and therefore had supporting roles. However, within those roles he often stole the show from the so called A-list thespians.

As to keeping up a dangerous habit with a young impressionable family at hand, you have to wonder what was going on around him to support such a course of action. Who knows what goes on behind anyone's private door.



SHJ

Curious Pax
3rd Feb 2014, 17:54
Interesting to contrast the lack of sympathy for an apparent victim of addiction on this thread with the much greater sympathy for victims of addictions on various other threads - ie drink/pilots vs drugs/actors. I would have said both were deserving......

Hadn't seen him in much, but had seen the most recent Hunger Games film he was in a couple of months ago which was quite good.

Mechta
3rd Feb 2014, 19:22
Interesting to contrast the lack of sympathy for an apparent victim of addiction on this thread with the much greater sympathy for victims of addictions on various other threads - ie drink/pilots vs drugs/actors. I would have said both were deserving......

The culture from which the commentators come probably has a lot to do with this. A lot of flying clubs have a bar, so drinking is part & parcel of the apre-flying. A pilot who develops an addiction to alcohol has through his body's make up fallen foul of what the others do, although they are able to control themselves. A pilot with a drug problem would no doubt be seen in a very different light to the alcoholic by his peers.

Despite being illegal, drugs are part and parcel of the performing arts profession. Hence it would appear they are more likely to look on a drug addict amongst their number in the same light as the pilot/alcoholic. To the rest of us he is just a **** for trying the stuff in the first place.

11Fan
4th Feb 2014, 02:04
As Woody Allen was mentioned earlier, and with the recent events surrounding his relationship in a "tell-all" letter released by his step-daughter now bringing him back into the spotlight, I don't think that it is helping his defense by saying that "Yes, I know she was seventeen, but she had the body of a twelve year old."

ExSp33db1rd
4th Feb 2014, 02:21
I'm with dazdaz1 - who was he, never heard of him until yesterday ?

That doesn't lessen the personal family tragedy of course, but just as you can't feed all the starving beggars that approach you as you walk through Bombay ( sorry, Mumbai ! ) you can't mourn every unknown drug addict that dies each day.

Better things to do.

Richo77
4th Feb 2014, 02:43
Just another dead junkie and another wasted life. Shed a tear for him as you do for all the other junkies or don't. Nothing special to see here.

fitliker
4th Feb 2014, 02:49
Not all accidents are accidents.
Some people may have an accident and some are accidented.
The rich guy who stole a wack of cash from the stock market and was found drowned off the back of his yacht was rumoured to have been accidented.
The nephew of an illegal arms/drug dealer was rumoured to have been accidented in a tunnel in Paris.


Why would anyone want this guy to have a junkies death ?
Did he gamble ?
Did his politics or his movies upset any particular hate groups ?




Might make a good movie.

chevvron
4th Feb 2014, 03:53
Never heard of him until news of his death broke. Then blanket coverage on Sky News for hours for a comparatively unknown actor who self destructed by drugging himself. Was such coverage, to the detriment of more newsworthy stories, (eg hardships of people in Somerset and the heroes who are trying to help them) justified?

SpringHeeledJack
4th Feb 2014, 05:56
There's always the tendency of the rolling news channels to go for the next sexiest thing, the fluff rather than the meaty stories. As to the UK flooding, it's happened, they've done the hard-luck angle and as nothing is happening, it's no longer interesting for those uninvolved, sadly for those that are.

I read yesterday that PSH's personal life was disintegrating and he was estranged from his partner and kids. Even though he had much, perhaps he felt that he didn't and his old faithful 'friend' Heroin was there in his hour of need ?



SHJ

cuefaye
4th Feb 2014, 09:53
No disrespect to the man, or his family, but as with some others I'd never heard of him, nor recognised him. Must stay in more.

Ogre
4th Feb 2014, 10:00
I recognise him from Scent of a Woman, and while he appeared to play the part of the student trying to weasel out of the disciplinary charge quite well, he was completely overshadowed by Al Pacino.

Amazing how the media says he was one of the greatest actors ever, just like every other actor who dies.....

G-CPTN
4th Feb 2014, 10:01
BBC News - Philip Seymour Hoffman: '70 bags of heroin' in dead actor's home (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26025780)

angels
4th Feb 2014, 10:38
The drugs he was sold were cut with Fentanyl. The same batch seems to have killed over 20 addicts up and down the East coast.

They were also unknown. Wonder if Sky will do a piece on them?

racedo
4th Feb 2014, 10:57
The fact he was a smack head probably helped him act but he had a choice, took it and ended up how he did.

I just compare and contrast Hoffman and Paul Walker, 2 actors who died in recent months doing what they loved best...................one a smack head and the other who did tons of charity work at personal expense all over the place. Walker seems to have been universally liked which cames not as a surprise, Hoffman seemed always cold.

M.Mouse
4th Feb 2014, 15:43
Interesting so many claim to have never heard of him, perhaps those people are generally not avid movie watchers. He was a very talented actor and played a variety of very difficult roles extremely well. Two spring to mind when he is mentioned, his portrayal of Truman Capote and as a priest in 'Doubt'.

Junkie or not his death is a tragic loss to his wife and children and like any drug addict the addiction itself is a tragedy in that it ruins and often ultimately destroys an otherwise productive life.

Dak Man
4th Feb 2014, 15:55
I've often pondered whether or not that the entertainment industry (be it film, music, TV etc) and hence celebrity status, attaract a certain type of individual that is liable to succumb to addiction or does the industry drive a person to addiction?

RIP, great actor but irresponsible or inevitable (see above)?

vulcanised
4th Feb 2014, 16:45
My first visit to this thread and I've only read the two preceding posts, so I had better confess I too had never heard of the chap until he died.

probes
4th Feb 2014, 20:30
ditto.
And I guess Dak might have a point.

Lonewolf_50
4th Feb 2014, 20:44
Yes, he does. But there is another way to look at this.

A successful star/celeb has access to money beyond what average Joe or Maggie might, and is in a sub culture that runs amok with recreational drug abuse. Movie types and music types often associate freely, and socialize in similar circles.

It may be that more opportunity is there to fall into temptation.

Or, one could dig into drug OD records and find out how many per capita, and compare to population of actors/actresses. Could be a pretty representative sample. The reason a lot of us even hear about their OD's is that they are public. We don't necessarily hear about the thirty per week in the ER in a given city ...

probes
4th Feb 2014, 20:57
It may be that more opportunity is there to fall into temptation.

dunno. Maybe it's just chemistry. Inside one's body, that clicks with something. It can't be that one wants the whatever-substance more than anything in the world.

ShyTorque
4th Feb 2014, 21:14
It seems to me, that some, often those who choose to put themselves in the publicity spotlight, for whatever reason, lose sight of reality, or fail to come to terms with the adulation, or sometimes not being in it all the time, and try to find a synthetic alternative.

I lost a brother to addiction. I lost sympathy for him because he refused to face up to reality, too. He also left behind a young son, who had also reached the same conclusion as me. Addict or not, there's no excuse for not putting your offspring first.

I had never heard of this actor, either.

BenThere
4th Feb 2014, 21:32
The opiates have fueled many of our creative minds for a century or more. While they tend to die tragically young, they have left their mark on mankind.

Morrison, Poe, Hendrix, Joplin, Carroll, and many other bright stars flashed and burned out early. We're richer for their drug-induced art, and they paid the price for their chemically enhanced visions.

I can't judge them. Neil Young, who has survived to a ripe old age, wrote, "It's better to burn out than fade away". As for me, I've chosen to fade away. But I respect those who chose to burn out, if they made a contribution.

Byron, Shelley, and many more burned out early, but still live in the words they put together. And the brightest stars among them achieved immortality in the art they gave us. You can't put a price on that, even if it cost them an early grave.

ShyTorque
4th Feb 2014, 22:23
You can't put a price on that, even if it cost them an early grave.

The ones more directly affected by their passing so early, might hold a different view.

bcgallacher
4th Feb 2014, 23:50
Ben There - Do you not think that you are making a rather large assumption that the talents of the musicians and writers you mentionedwere enhanced by drug use? I think you would be hard pressed to find supportive evidence of that.

SpringHeeledJack
5th Feb 2014, 06:49
The opiates have fueled many of our creative minds for a century or more. While they tend to die tragically young, they have left their mark on mankind.

Morrison, Poe, Hendrix, Joplin, Carroll, and many other bright stars flashed and burned out early. We're richer for their drug-induced art, and they paid the price for their chemically enhanced visions.


There is no doubt that drugs have allowed 'artistes' to step outside of the normal parameters of thinking of society and opened up 'our' minds to other ideas/impulses/directions for the better or worse depending on one's viewpoint. Sadly this often addictive substance abuse has very negative effects on those taking and those within the orbit of said taker.

Some sentient observations from one who decide to 'fade away' instead (Willy Nelson) :)

"I think it is just terrible and
disgusting how everyone has treated Lance Armstrong, especially after what
he achieved, winning seven Tour de France races while on drugs. When I was
on drugs, I couldn't even find my bike."



SHJ

Evanelpus
5th Feb 2014, 14:00
He was in Mission Impossible 2, right?

In death, it's always the ones left behind who have to pick up the pieces. Sorry but he was a junkie and if you live by the needle, chances are, you will die by it too.

No sympathy for the individual, he got what was coming to him.

Matari
5th Feb 2014, 14:22
Frank Zappa was a wise man:

a7Vi1zusI3s

Lonewolf_50
5th Feb 2014, 20:08
Zappa made some very common sense points:

"We have yet to reap the beneftis of the acid generation."

Indeed.

The benefits of the cocaine generation, which seems to have gotten its grips on the "teens and preteen" group watching the acid generation go loopy, are easily seen in the destruction of so many lives by nose candy for about two decades. Not sure how it is doing now, but coke seems to retain its pride of place. It just has more competitors.

The "E" generation is alive and well, less a few who died from dehydration and cardiac arrest, but generation "meth" seems be spending a lot of time in prison or in rehab.

Generation dope? As Zappa points out, drug overuse robs you of your ambition.

It's interesting to see how Zappa was such a success in that era of musical evolution, but happily refrained from immersing himself in that element of the sub culture. He knew a trap when he saw one.

PS: Some good news in the Hoffman death. Apparently, PS Hoffman ran out to an ATM to get about 1200 in cash to buy his various chemicals, which afforded the cops some video of who was selling him smack.

They have made four arrests, and recovered a tidy little stash of smack that now won't be on the streets.

Silver lining, and all that.

SpringHeeledJack
5th Feb 2014, 20:38
One has always been too much of a wuss to partake enthusiastically of drugs, but from my extensive experience of observing those around me over the years, of those who haven't spiralled off into death and destruction it seems that the pot/hash smokers all puffed all the enthusiasm out of themselves, despite words and plans to the contrary, the coke users to a wo(man) all became lairs and cheats and manipulative maggots with the morals of an alley cat, the ecstasy users partied until they felt stupid amongst the youth of the day and then stumbled into various unfocused avenues and the few heroin and amphetamine users seemed to 'disappear' into a self made hell and/or death.

Alcohol being socially acceptable gets you slowly when taken to extremes and most seem to croak in their 50's and 60's of related/direct ill health. Blimey, it makes you want to drink water and think good thoughts :)



SHJ

Richo77
5th Feb 2014, 21:32
Far too many generalisations being made here. Were you to look closely you would probably be surprised at the drug users you encounter every day. Like alcoholics, or gamblers or many other forms of addicts there are various kinds.

Most of the chatter here seems to be focusing on the negative push it to the extreme types however there are always functioning-addicts. Those who can maintain jobs, families etc and still feed the habits, i have known several.

Equally as sad, just not as tragic.

Lonewolf_50
5th Feb 2014, 21:40
Fair point, Richo, some families break up/divorce early on in the cycle.

Two of my relatives, in fact, marriages ended over substance abuse.

Richo77
6th Feb 2014, 04:04
A fair point also LW.

My older brother was addicted to Heroin for 10 years+ and I've seen and done some things i never EVER want to see or do ever again. Made us both stronger i think and definitely a much stronger bond between us. He is clean, he smokes pot and dabbles with other substances from time to time (occupational hazard in hospitality), but he stays away from the Big H cause he knows if he even gets close it wont kill him, I WILL.

He was lucky that his family never gave up on him, but i can understand how some do Elvis knows I've been close.

I had to cut loose one of my best mates because he got hooked on it. His engagement broke up, he had to sell the apartment they shared, lost his job etc. I got him a job, let him move in with me and he knew the one golden rule. Stay away from the H because i wasn't going to go through with him what i went through with my brother. But he couldn't and i couldn't support him any longer. Like a band-aid i cut him right off.

This poor actor was just no different to the rest, just somewhat better known (or so it would seem).

mickjoebill
6th Feb 2014, 10:06
Screenwriter Aaron Sorkin who knew Hoffman and had been a heroin addict commented Aaron Sorkin's Tribute: Philip Seymour Hoffman's Death Saved 10 Lives - Us Weekly (http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/aaron-sorkin-tribute-philip-seymour-hoffman-death-saved-10-lives-201452)

"he did not die from an overdose of heroin -- he died from heroin..we should stop implying that if heíd just taken the proper amount then everything would have been fine.
He didnít die because he was partying too hard or because he was depressed -- he died because he was an addict on a day of the week with a y in it,"


Whilst I didn't recognise the name I certainly recognise his face and recall his superb talent.

Mickjoebill