ILS move in ZRH

[Few Cloudy]

The Zürich airport authorities have requested from the FOCA (Swiss CAA) permission to install ILS on RW28 and RW34. Better late than never - let's hope it gets the OK.

[noblues]

About time too !

Didn't an RJ crash on the VOR appr' for 28 last winter ?

I have done a few VOR let downs to 28 in foul WX and it would make life someone easier if they at least published step down heights on the Aerads ........Its very easy to be monitor the wrong beacon for distances there, more so when its a DIY job !

I'm sure the Swiss goverment can spare a bit of lose change to add an ILS !

[Air Bus Driver]

AZ404 crashed on approach to RWY14, which is the main landing runway at ZRH and is ILS equipped...

Cheers, ABD

[320DRIVER]

Will the RWY 28 approach have a normal 3.00 deg glide?

[Air Bus Driver]

To my knowledge, a 3 degree ILS will not be possible for the 28 Apch! Too many hills surrounding the airport to the east... As far as I know, same is the problem for a RWY 34 ILS!

[N380UA]

Well the FOCA won’t be a problem on the political stage, as long as all the tech. reqs. are complied with. The (much)bigger issue are the airport communities who are trying to get an injunction, forcing the airport authorities to abandon these projects. :( :mad:


ABD - you’re partially right. Actually it’s more of airspace and operator problem; apparently 3° is limiting vectoring capability in the south (Alps) and 3.5° is – according to operators too steep.
:confused: :confused:

[springbok449]

Well, I am sure that it is not just the FOCA's decision, the Germans will have to approve it too just like everything else in ZRH!!!

[gofer]

Only 12 & 14 come from Germany if memory serves correctly!

[Akro]

Sorry gofer,
memory doesn't serve you correctly! It's ILS 16 and ILS 14 that overflies southern German territory.
At the moment Rwy14 is used as preferential Rwy to land on (Rwy 28 for westwind situations). Rwy 28 is preferential Rwy for take off (16 for traffic that needs a bit more concrete). All this changes at night though (noise abatement which is a bl...y huge topic in ZRH).
Anyway, I've never seen a more complicated airport to fly in than ZRH! Everything's special!

[arcniz]

Prevailing winds around ZRH typically favor / allow 28 for jet operations, unless the length of 16/34 is required . Occasional high winds make 28 the only game in town. Problem with 28 is that it the numbers are very close to the old village portion of Kloten, so noise and 'wheel-views' bother the locals, reasonably enough, and they fight in their local councils - as only the Swiss can do - to keep a lid on it.

It would be hard to move the obstacles in the long shallow valley leading into 28, but interested parties - the Swiss govt and the airlines - might consider chipping in to move that part of town a KM or so off the centerline. That, plus a steep g/s (or two of them, to permit a threshold offset at certain hours) would likely increase 28 bandwidth and safety considerably.

[N380UA]

arcniz

It would be difficult to move the highway which is turning northerly right at the approach end of 28. To my knowledge, the Army has a large unit in the vicinity there as well, and other older and historical buildings which probably may not be moved. I highly doubt that such endeavour would even be contemplated.

[DontPanic_DontPanic]

I wouldn't put anything past the Swiss... Remember these are the folks who are planning to build an underground, very high speed, maglev type train to run from Zürich to Geneva !!! 300 odd k's in about 1 hour......

[Basil]

DP-DP,

So are the Chinese: HK - Beijing eventually;
whilst we consider T5 at leisure and continue the Wembley W^nk-up, mini-motorways etc! Grrrrr! :(

Anyway apologies for going off-thread.

[gofer]

Its the Emmental cheese - attacking my brain. Downhill from 30 I'm afraid................:p

[Few Cloudy]

Ah... Emmentaler - the only place you will find swiss-air - in the holes. As for a high speed link from Zürich to Geneva in a country where they don't even have motorway sign posts from one to the other until you get about halfway, I'll believe it when I see it.

[Alpha Leader]

Few Cloudy:

The idea of a "Swiss Metro" has been dragged out repeatedly - I can remember it being mentioned when I was at school (and that's quite some time ago).

Gofer:

Good to see you back on line. Returning to Honkers soon?

[arcniz]

N380UA -- I have great respect for Swiss adaptability and pragmatism. While it will be very disruptive to relocate parts of old Kloten, that may be the only way to save them. The airport has already spread so close toward the tiny former country town that the Lebensvergnuegen has surely diminished for residents.

Judging by the changes of the past 40 years, I expect Kloten Airport to look like a Schweitzer LAX in 40 more. As a major economic engine for the entire nation, ZRH is going to eventually win whatever ground it needs. The Kloteners would do well to work on a deal for graceful relocation while they have options.

[gofer]

You from ZRH ? ;)

Why do I ask, only ZRH thinks it needs ZRH, the rest of Switzerland can do fine without. And yes I'm only an honnary Basler (having done nearly 30 years there, with time out for good conduct sometimes). For outsiders the Gnomes of ZRH and the Industry of BSL don't quite see eye to eye.

Switzerland is too small to relocate anything anywhere really except the proposal for ZRH new airport which was to extend Payerne (Air Force Base at present) and use the faster trains - for those of you who don't get the map out that's 150+ Km away and closer to Geneva and Lausanne than any thing else, also it speaks foreign (French instead of Dialect German)!!!

Why do think Berne refused dual HQ's to Crossair (ups sorry -SWISS) because they want the traffic diverted to EAP (MLH or BSL if you prefer - its got to be the only airport in the world with 3 active codes!). :D

AL will mail - am collecting airmiles for a few more weeks - where were you last Sat ? Not at the Roo@1700. :p

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page the PPRuNe for an auto spell checker !!!!!!!

[arcniz]

gofer - Congratulations! - You have mastered the basic provincial snippityness that CH-ers do so well - even better than the French. Thirty years, eh?

The greatest difference is that Basel is a frontier town, inclined to import its airports from France, while ZRH is centrally located in the heartland of northern Schewiz.

I do confess to a teensy pro-ZRH bias - having enjoyed a few truly sweet times there - some of them going back to when it was a far simpler place. But the 28 tattoo is wholly coincidental.

Personal bias aside, Kloten airport is a well-situated high-capacity aerodrome in a region that lives on international commerce. Part freight-port and part gnome-port, ZRH is the 'port' of Zurich, with growth certain in its future as 'Swiss' reaches out to trade with the world.

[gofer]

Thank you kind Sir (?). Biases aside - that is a solid vote for SWISS and their (pseudo) home port. - OK so how much latitude arc ?

ILS has to be basically +ve. SWISS & their chances - a lot of the new Mgt. just don't have or get it (sorry chaps - the truth will out - as somebody far more erudite than all of us once said) and the product is now worse than in the deepest depression of 9-11 & crews just having received notice before starting the leg. Will check it out again tonight - but ... my guess is that having sold off what could have, to kept it afloat; when this lot of capital is gone, its bye bye PR & contry prestige, and leave the gnomes to ship their PAX in some other way. :(

[Alpha Leader]

gofer:

I was in town last Saturday, only got to the Roo @ 1800

I'll check for your mail

[arcniz]

Gofer

FWIW, I have recently been told that I have a bad lattitude in some areas, so by making my position too much clearer, I may lose the latitude to speak out on certain topics of interest. 'Plus or minus 170' pretty well sums it. 'Spin the compass, Rose, and thence we go!' ;)

Persistence and tenacity are eminently Swiss qualities - some would even hazard to include 'stubbornness'. Present difficulties notwithstanding, I'll bet my Rappen that SWISS comes out of it strong and proud. Hope so!

[vanman]

Somewhere here I remember a thread about the installation of ILS on RWY 28 in ZRH. Bloody good idea and about time too.

The sleepy residents of Kloten should realise that the ILS is for their benefit too. Without it, aircraft will still enforcedly land at night, over their heads, but without the guidance of a G/S on a steep approach, which is currently only catered for by a less than easy non-precision approach which has already brought down one aircraft within a few KM of their village.

It would seem for once, that the noise lobbyers of northern Switzerland's real complaint is with the noise lobbyers of Southern Germany whose will has displaced the traffic from the normally natural landing RWYs of 14 and 16.