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Mike6567
28th Jan 2014, 18:49
I am trying to pinpoint this photo taken of my dad in about 1932. I think it is somewhere in Dorset. Any suggestions appreciated.Thanks.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/1932Rock2_zps72884349.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/1932Rock2_zps72884349.jpg.html)

Cpt_Pugwash
28th Jan 2014, 18:56
Could be the Pulpit Rock at Portland Bill. Or another stack at the Bill which has since been lost. The Pom Pom stack collapsed in the storms of early January this year.

superq7
28th Jan 2014, 19:08
I think your correct Cpt here's a pic.

http://i60.tinypic.com/2vwgt4z.jpg

500N
28th Jan 2014, 19:14
Superq
I can't match it up to that pic.


Mike
Just in searching, the rocks seem similar to those on Dartmoor
which is Devon, not Dorset.

(You may need to scroll down to see the photo of Hound Tor)

Dartmoor National Park, England -- National Geographic (http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/travel/parks/dartmoor-england/)

superq7
28th Jan 2014, 19:41
500 I'm not sure but here's a better picture of Pulpit Rock anyway, cheers stu.

http://i60.tinypic.com/2i9ovwk.jpg

G-CPTN
28th Jan 2014, 19:47
The OP's rock has 'folds' that look like stacked mattresses.

Cpt_Pugwash
28th Jan 2014, 19:50
Looking at the original pic,due to the monochrome , it's difficult to tell if that is vegetation at the base. 500N maybe on the right track with a Devon Tor, perhaps Combestone Tor.

Alternatively, maybe somewhere in the Peak District.

500N
28th Jan 2014, 20:07
I think the Devon angle is worth investigating further looking at a few photos of rock outcrop on Dartmoor and very similar rock shapes.

Cpt
I thought of the peak district as well but haven't had a chance to look.


The folds in that rock make me think it might be a soft rock like
layers of sandstone.

superq7
28th Jan 2014, 20:23
Another the Agglestone Rock it's in Studland.

http://i62.tinypic.com/nv16kp.jpg

superq7
28th Jan 2014, 21:17
Bingo it looks like the one henry. :ok:

stagger
28th Jan 2014, 21:45
Another pic from before it fell over...

http://www.exmouthtomilfordonsea1800-2000.info/files/EastDorset/swanageOHRstudland/agglestone_1900.jpg

I'm not sure it looks quite right.

500N
28th Jan 2014, 21:49
That makes two of us.

Doesn't look lie the right strata or wear patterns to me.

im from uranus
28th Jan 2014, 23:42
Could it be Brimham Rocks in N. Yorks, near Harrogate?

popstar
29th Jan 2014, 00:19
Another vote for Brimham Rocks. These are wind sculpted sandstone rocks.

Clare Prop
29th Jan 2014, 00:34
It looks a bit like Haytor or one of the other tors on Dartmoor?

wiggy
29th Jan 2014, 00:42
Haytor crossed my mind since I used to live very very near to it and have scrambled up it a few times (cue jokes about a certain Prison :hmm: ). That said I've had a good look at various pics but I can't match anything on Haytor with the OP's photo - I can't see any similar overhangs. There are one or two others that might be candidates in the area, such as Hunter's Tor but I can't pin anything down that matches the pic.

I do agree it does look very Dartmoo'rish but I guess there are a few areas in the UK/British Isles with similar geology.

FWIW ...

Dartmoor Tors (http://www.davebellamy.co.uk/Views/tors_near.php?Min_Easting=275005&Max_Easting=277005&Min_Northing=81475&Max_Northing=83475&Tor_Name=Hunters%20Tor%20(Lustleigh))

and

Lesser Known Tors and Rocks of Dartmoor - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bridgemarkertim/sets/72157624642103575/)

That reminds me, I must remember to renew my subscription to "Tor Spotter's Weekly" :eek:

Clare Prop
29th Jan 2014, 00:53
Most of my visits to the tors were as an agric student from Seale-Hayne fuelled by home made cider and/or a hearty meal at The Rock Inn, so a bit blurry, but I think this looks a bit more like saddle tor than the others?

Love Dartmoor :)

500N
29th Jan 2014, 00:54
To the OP

Have you tried posting it on a climbing forum in the UK.

Someone is bound to know this rock outcrop and might
answer if it is at the top of a cliff, mountain or just a stand
alone Tor like on Dartmouth.

It is a very obvious shape and direction so should be easy to pick.

Like the others, I went through all the Tor photos but couldn't
match it exactly.

DX Wombat
29th Jan 2014, 01:13
Idol Rock, Brimham Rocks? -it's bound to have suffered some erosion since that photo was taken.

http://www.amazingplacesonearth.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/BrimhamRocks.jpg

Airey Belvoir
29th Jan 2014, 04:15
Having done a fair bit of climbing in my youth I would say that the rock is millstone grit which would put it somewhere on the Derbyshire "edges" or similar Pennine location.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Salt_cellar_2_%282%29.jpg/220px-Salt_cellar_2_%282%29.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Salt_cellar_2_(2).jpg)

Mike6567
29th Jan 2014, 07:21
Two more photos. I still think it is possibly Dorset.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/1932Rock1_zpse7ca812a.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/1932Rock1_zpse7ca812a.jpg.html) http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/1932Rock_zpsb9e700a5.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/1932Rock_zpsb9e700a5.jpg.html) http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/1932Rock2_zps72884349.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/1932Rock2_zps72884349.jpg.html)

Pelikal
29th Jan 2014, 08:32
Mike, I'm really not so sure about Dorset. My Mother has lived in Dorset for 30 years and we have never been to visit such a feature. She would certainly have suggested a visit if it was in Dorset, given her interest in local landscape. Could be wrong of course.

Airey Belvoir
29th Jan 2014, 08:44
I'd stake my life on it being in the Peak District. This is a good example (Cowper Stone, Stanage Edge)


http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4547353680086429&pid=1.9&m=&w=300&h=300&p=0


and Curbar Edge


http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4840579730113980&w=189&h=145&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7

dead_pan
29th Jan 2014, 08:53
Not sure about Dorset either - I know the county quite well and there aren't many rocky outrcops like this apart from on the Isle of Purbeck.

If this clue has come from an elderly relative, its possible they may be thinking of Devon rather than Dorset. This then opens up the possibility of it being a Dartmoor tor, maybe something like?

http://philsorrell.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/P4240080.jpg

The central 'buttress' in this image looks similarly exposed, however the rock formation doesn't look right, although who knows what it looks like from the other side.

Pelikal
29th Jan 2014, 08:59
dead_pan, my thoughts as well. Muddled Devon and Dorset.

wiggy
29th Jan 2014, 09:04
Looking at the middle pic with the subject sitting and waving I'm struggling to think of any Tor with such a vertical extent so close to what looks like a Main Road anywhere on Dartmoor proper( FWIW the field/road configuration rules out Haytor for that particular pic.).

Wonder if AB ;) is right with the Peak District/Pennines?

Pelikal
29th Jan 2014, 09:32
Could be two or three different places. Chap in middle pic looks younger and clothing is not the same.

Mike6567
29th Jan 2014, 09:42
I always thought it was Dorset as they lived in Putney and would usually go south for holidays outings etc.
His parents were in Singapore at the time and I have their letters back expressing horror at the "wisdom of the standing on the edge of a rock with a 500ft drop is very doubtful!"
Dad did travel around a bit (doing audits as he was an articled accountant) and one of his parents letters refers to his letter on "Old Court Hotel paper Bradford on Avon but posted in Bath". Will have another think with anywhere now a possibility.

Later. Have just seen the remark about the middle picture and different clothing. Will now have to get out the old albums to check chronology.

Airey Belvoir
29th Jan 2014, 10:00
I reckon the bloke on the top rock is dressed exactly the same as the sit-down pic - even down to the belted raincoat and half-mast trousers. The schoolboy pic could, however, be in a totally different place and time.

handsfree
29th Jan 2014, 10:23
Having spent a lot of my youth walking and climbing in the Dark Peaks I agree with AB that it is very similar to the millstone grit outcrops that abound in that area. The colouring and texture looks just right.

DX Wombat
29th Jan 2014, 10:43
Don't forget weathering will have changed the appearance of the rocks from when that first photo was taken over eighty years ago so an exact match is probably impossible.

Mike6567
29th Jan 2014, 10:55
I have now found and checked the album and discovered another shot. First these two photos together
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/cd2f83ba-30dc-4978-b484-def37b7bd5f4_zpscf5abd79.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/cd2f83ba-30dc-4978-b484-def37b7bd5f4_zpscf5abd79.jpg.html)http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/1932Rock_zpsb9e700a5.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/1932Rock_zpsb9e700a5.jpg.html)

Then further down the page these two
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/1932Rock1_zpse7ca812a.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/1932Rock1_zpse7ca812a.jpg.html)http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/1932Rock2_zps72884349.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/1932Rock2_zps72884349.jpg.html)

Thanks for all your help and suggestions. Mike

cockney steve
29th Jan 2014, 10:56
I reckon it's a trick photo of a puff-pastry Cream Slice, with the bloke superimposed on it.

FSL Draper is an expert on cream cakes, no doubt he'll be able to elucidate.

airship
29th Jan 2014, 13:15
Another avenue of investigation may be to identify the brand / model of Mackintosh / Gannex etc. rainwear / overcoat the person in the photo had on. It's quite possible that the person in the photo might have sent, and/or the manufacturer otherwise acquired the photo if the situation / surroundings were exceptional?! Most of these manufacturers still hold photo archives of their old models (not always available online)... :ok:

Airey Belvoir
29th Jan 2014, 14:09
Definitely Peak District.

603DX
29th Jan 2014, 14:35
From faintly remembered engineering geology lectures and field trips, I also very much doubt that the OP picture was taken in Dorset. The strongly featured banding of the rock suggests a coarse sandstone characteristic of Millstone Grit outcrops in the Peak District and elsewhere, much further north. These were often formed along cold fast-flowing rivers, and also in the wide delta areas. The distinctive rocks of Dorset such as Portland stone and Purbeck marble, although also sedimentary formations like sandstone, were formed under quite different climatic conditions, and generally have a stronger matrix structure due to the concretionary action of limestone formation on the beds of relatively warm, limy seas. Their jointing pattern is quite different, as a result of their much higher cohesive properties, not at all like the picture.

Tankertrashnav
29th Jan 2014, 15:27
I have no idea where this is but like airship I was drawn to the clothes.

Those were the days when you went out for a little light scrambling on the moors in a collar and tie, flannels, brogues and a belted mac! None of this anorak, boots and woolly hat nonsense ;)

Mike6567
29th Jan 2014, 15:29
This is the next photo in the album that may give a clue

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Townnearrock_zps0f9edf50.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Townnearrock_zps0f9edf50.jpg.html)

But then it could have been taken days or weeks later.

AtomKraft
29th Jan 2014, 15:46
A tram?

Surely that should narrow the search down a little.

wiggy
29th Jan 2014, 19:06
Might be my imagination but I think there's something lurking on the skyline just to the left of centre - a distant group of trees on a hill or a building such as a castle? Castles plus trams would fit the likes of Nottingham or Edinburgh ...........

That really narrowed it down :\

500N
29th Jan 2014, 19:08
Wiggy

I did a search of English locations with Electric Trams.
Gave up as far too many and even if I had added Castle,
it would have been the same.

Sirikit
29th Jan 2014, 19:12
Similar perhaps - High Tor, Matlock (Matlock Bath) which also had tramcars and Riber Castle on hilltop?




http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/19/0a/f6/190af678f38cb175780529e89f1b2ca8.jpg


http://www.matthewfedak.co.uk/images/2013/April/top-of-high-tor-matlock-bath-peak-district.jpg

izod tester
29th Jan 2014, 19:15
Two millstone grit crags close to roads and near towns which had trams are the Cow and Calf on Ilkley Moor and Armscliffe Crag between Leeds and Harrogate. Of the two, Moor Road close to the Cow and Calf looks similar to the road in the background of the OPs photographs. None of the images which are provided by googling either location looks an an exact match though.

ex_matelot
29th Jan 2014, 19:44
Hangershell Rock, Dartmoor.

wiggy
29th Jan 2014, 20:00
That one crossed my mind earlier but having looked at one or two other images I'm not convinced...I'm now with the probably "not Dartmoor" school of thought ....that said I hope we do find out....

500N
29th Jan 2014, 20:03
Nor am I.

I also looked at it.

That Rock outcrop will jump out at you when we find the rock.
It is unique in shape and the fact that nothing is under it.

ShyTorque
29th Jan 2014, 20:07
Can anyone post a rock?

This has the makings of one of the most interesting recent threads on PPRuNe..

The "name that airfield" one got a bit boring.... ;)

500N
29th Jan 2014, 20:11
Shy

re "
Can anyone post a rock?"

do you mean can anyone post a photo of a rock and ask if someone can identify
where it is ?

Yes.


I did it a while ago, a pic of a location asking if anyone could identify it.
Every man and his dog came out of the wood work to solve it :O

ShyTorque
29th Jan 2014, 20:21
Sirikit, Aha, a bikers' haven! Yes, the entrance to the aquarium is though the arched door.

I have been a regular visitor to Matlock Bath for many years. I sometimes stop just to the left of there for a fish and chip lunch (not from the aquarium).

I remember some nasty fights there between "Mods and Rockers" in my younger day. I once saw a Lambretta scooter being thrown over the railings into the river Derwent just out of frame to the left.

ShyTorque
29th Jan 2014, 20:22
500N, the dog is in one of the pictures posted earlier! :ok:

ShyTorque
29th Jan 2014, 20:57
Sorry to say I have none of that location! In my younger days on motorbikes in leathers one travelled very light and cameras were large and expensive.

wiggy
29th Jan 2014, 20:58
Not convinced it's Matlock, that's Mrs Wiggy's part of the world and from visits I recall at that point the valley is quite narrow, with the river on the left, oldish houses along the road on the RHS and then the ground rising very steeply behind them. On the OP's photo whereas it looks quite open on the right with the higher ground in the middle distance. Also the road on the old picture is too wide, IMHO of course.

Having seen my parents efforts at landscape photography with a box Brownie I wonder if the photo was meant to be a general view that contained some notable castle/stately home in the background. It also looks to me as if there might be a flag/standard flying to the RHS of the building ?????

handsfree
29th Jan 2014, 21:01
Matlock Bath and Riber Castle immediately sprang to mind when I saw that photo.

ZOOKER
29th Jan 2014, 21:02
Looking at the rock, I'd definitely go for Millstone Grit, the dark weathering and rough cross-stratification are highly characteristic, as is the 'tor' like shape of the exposure. It could be anywhere in Derbyshire, the South Pennines, (Lancashire/Yorkshire border), or even The Roaches area, which is in Staffordshire NE of Leek.
The bend in the road, in one of the later pictures could be a good clue. I think one of the Derbyshire/Staffordshire 'edges'.

ShyTorque
29th Jan 2014, 21:13
I don't think it's Matlock Bath.

I wondered about Millstone Edge, above Hathersage...

Pelikal
29th Jan 2014, 21:14
Intrepid explorers discover a previously unknown strata formation which can best be described as resembling a puff-pastry cream slice.

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g412/RobJHP/Rock%20outcrop/Creamslicestrata_zpsed6c2359.jpg (http://s1100.photobucket.com/user/RobJHP/media/Rock%20outcrop/Creamslicestrata_zpsed6c2359.jpg.html)

500N
29th Jan 2014, 21:19
These photos remind me of my grand father.

Everywhere we went, he always had a shirt, tie, jacket and if windy / cold like along the Cliff top in Bournemouth, a Mackintosh like in the photos.

and a cap or a hat !

ShyTorque
29th Jan 2014, 21:26
Sirikit, sorry, as I said, I didn't carry a camera back in the day...

But trams like the ones shown in the second photo were running in Sheffield around that time......and access to Millstone Edge is off the Sheffield road.

wiggy
29th Jan 2014, 21:29
Matlock Bath and Riber Castle immediately sprang to mind when I saw that photo.


Still not convinced the building in question is the actual Spa building at Matlock but........having had a tinker on Google Street view could it, just possibly, be a view of Riber castle taken from the vicinity of Matlock Station? The foreground area is completely different nowadays, trees and buildings gone and road system changed, but assuming the station hasn't changed location, and given that railways were the most common form of transport when the photo was taken was it a quick snap of the castle taken with a basic camera immediately on arrival? ...........................Will we ever know?

ShyTorque
29th Jan 2014, 21:39
Wiggy, I'm fairly certain it can't be Riber Castle in the background of the tram photo. The topography looks totally wrong.

Also, having looked up Sheffield trams, the paint scheme looks very similar to the one in the photo.

wiggy
29th Jan 2014, 21:42
Fair enuff....I'll run it past Mrs Wiggy when I get home....she's not of that era you understand :ouch: but she's a local and may be able to come up some other ideas.

Also, having looked up Sheffield trams, the paint scheme looks very similar to the one in the photo.


Ah, now I'm way beyond my area of expertise ( not that there's a lot of that)

Sirikit
29th Jan 2014, 21:50
Can you imagine how silly we will all look if someone proves it to be some arbitrary rock formation in the Gobi Desert?

Cpt_Pugwash
29th Jan 2014, 21:52
I'm currently searching Curbar/Froggatt Edge in the Peak District, but wondering how much the formation may have changed since the 30's.

ShyTorque
29th Jan 2014, 22:11
Ah, now I'm way beyond my area of expertise ( not that there's a lot of that)

Same here. I searched Sheffield trams using "&oogle" and clicked on "images" :p

Sirikit, Did they have trams in the Gobi desert? ;)

Sirikit
29th Jan 2014, 22:14
Um, I know they had canoes.

Tankertrashnav
29th Jan 2014, 22:40
Can't help thinking that bloke would look a lot better in plus fours and a tweed jacket!

ShyTorque
29th Jan 2014, 22:45
Just done a bit more research. The trams in Matlock (only two) only went from Crown Square, up and down Bank Road, which has a 1 in 5.5 gradient. They were pulled up by cable in a tube under the road. So it's almost certainly not Matlock in the tram photo.

500N
29th Jan 2014, 22:48
" Can't help thinking that bloke would look a lot better in plus fours and a tweed jacket!"

Agree, but somehow the brogues just wouldn't cut it as climbing shoes like "stickies" do :O

500N
30th Jan 2014, 01:53
I'm a bit confused now as to where we should be looking,
what has been looked at and discounted etc.

Airey Belvoir
30th Jan 2014, 02:34
I think that the general agreement seems to be that it is millstone grit so concentrate Peak District/Pennines either Lancs or Yorks where the millstone grit outcrops.

izod tester
30th Jan 2014, 08:07
I have looked carefully for crags located close to a road with a straight stretch with a sharp bend followed by a gentler bend. I have found a stretch of road very similar to that in the OPs photographs close to Fallinge Edge and Raven Tor about 6 km ESE of Bakewell. There are no specific images of the rocks on Fallinge Edge which match the original image, but the background vista of the Derbyshire Heritage website for Raven For shows an outcrop which might be the one. Confusingly, there is another Raven Tor in the Peak District which is Limestone and does not match our criteria.

stagger
30th Jan 2014, 08:15
izod tester

You mean the outcrop in the distance - in the middle of this photo...

http://mike-wsm.org.uk/zpp107.jpg

handsfree
30th Jan 2014, 08:16
Stanage Edge was a possibility that came to mind. It has a long straight road running below and has the right type of rock - and lots of it - but I can't find anything that matches the photos.

izod tester
30th Jan 2014, 09:53
Good Spot Henry, in my defence, I was scanning maps on a 7 in Tablet and didn't zoom in to check what the contour lines said. Now using a bigger display, the road to the South of Fallinge Edge, which looks like the road in the original photo, is plainly higher than the rocks on the edge.

ZOOKER
30th Jan 2014, 10:47
The road looks wide enough to be an 'A' or 'B' road at the time the pictures were taken. It is also fairly level and appears to descend just right of the gentleman's head.
There is no Millstone Grit in Dorset. It runs up the whole of the east side of Derbyshire to just north of Castleton where it meets similar strata which run up the west side. It then continues north as far as the Craven Lowlands.
All the high moorland west, south-west and north-west of Sheffield is part of this outcrop,

Duckbutt
30th Jan 2014, 11:13
Going back to the tram picture, could I tentatively suggest that the location is Castle Hill, Dudley, West Midlands with the castle visible on the hill?

The large building behind the tram (which if I am right would be a Birmingham Corporation vehicle) may well be the old Opera House which burned down in 1936.

ZOOKER
30th Jan 2014, 12:00
Success, well partially.
The gentleman waving is sitting on Ramshaw Rocks, N.E. of Leek. Grid Ref, SK020624 The road behind is the A53, the picture is looking roughly south-west towards Leek.
Zooks. BSc Jt.Hons Geology/Geography, (Nottingham 1979). :E

oggers
30th Jan 2014, 14:09
Well done Zooker. Yes Peak District is best fit.

Dartmoor, Brimham, some of Wester Ross and a few other places including Stone Farm in the mountainous south east offer similar rock and photo opportunities as the image in the OP. Definitely not Dorset though.

ShyTorque
30th Jan 2014, 14:59
But we must discover where the tram photo was taken. Obviously, it's now a thing of vital importance, seeing as so many airlines are grounded due to lack of crews. ;)

The sooner we get this tidied up, the better for everyone.

Maybe the Crich Tramway Museum can help?

Actually, having looked at a few photos on Google Earth, I'm not fully convinced it's Ramshaw rocks because of the orientation differences in the rock strata. Sorry, I seem to be going all geological.

Mike6567
30th Jan 2014, 16:03
OK chaps I have had another look in the album.
In between the first couple of rock photos and the next there is this photo of some ruins
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Castle_zps7973e19b.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Castle_zps7973e19b.jpg.html)
Using the clue from Duckbutt (post 89) I have found a picture of Dudley Castle that matches
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/DudleyCastle_zpse1ae949b.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/DudleyCastle_zpse1ae949b.jpg.html)
So I think the tram picture is probably Dudley

stagger
30th Jan 2014, 18:37
Success, well partially.
The gentleman waving is sitting on Ramshaw Rocks, N.E. of Leek. Grid Ref, SK020624 The road behind is the A53, the picture is looking roughly south-west towards Leek.
Zooks. BSc Jt.Hons Geology/Geography, (Nottingham 1979). :E


Not precisely the same rock - but the same general view of the A53...

http://ludchurchmyblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/myths-legend-pictures-240.jpg?w=300&h=225

TBirdFrank
30th Jan 2014, 23:22
The tram is obviously narrow gauge, tall and thin - in fact if you take the picture and blow it up there are two of them - Birmingham trams.

That theatre or mill is quite distinctive and it stands out well with its new roof in the panoramic shot from Darby's Hill by Alan Atkins on the list on this URL

SO9490 :: Browse 662 Images :: Geograph Britain and Ireland (http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/SO9490)

The shot itself - I reckon somewhere near Longnor in the Peak District - more anon.

TBirdFrank
30th Jan 2014, 23:45
The Roaches above Upper Hulme n/e of Leek looks most promising - but - there are so many rocks photographed on Google Earth that I could spend all night looking.

ZOOKER
31st Jan 2014, 00:26
oggers and henry,
thank-you for your support and best wishes. Sorry for the delay in replying, but a pub quiz here in Cheshire was calling.
T Bird, might work on the urban shot later, and 'stagger', that's fairly close. If you Google 'Ramshaw Rocks', you'll find that Hindley and Brady took photographs of themselves hereabouts, (along with a dog).
The angle of dip of the Namurian strata here is unusually high. Most of the Millstone Grit locations in Derbyshire exhibit fairly shallow angles, related to the Hercynian orogenic compression.

Airey Belvoir
31st Jan 2014, 00:27
I think that the waving lad on the rock is a different location to the other pix. Shy explains the reasons why http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/nerd.gif

ZOOKER
31st Jan 2014, 02:00
The dry-stone wall field boundaries, left of the gentleman waving, identify the location precisely. The trees, south of the road have been thinned out.
I'll have a look at the other pictures over the weekend.

Airey Belvoir
31st Jan 2014, 04:44
Absolutely no question that the pic of the 'waver' is Ramshaw Rocks. However, the strata of the rocks in the other pics suggests another location; and, given the change in clothing (assuming it's the same person), supports that hypothesis.

Mike6567
31st Jan 2014, 08:42
The photos are all 60mm x 43mm and I would think from the same camera.
I attach photos of the lot taken this morning (some problems with photobucket where some photos are 90 out - sorry no time to sort this)

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Rock1_zps23039fa1.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Rock1_zps23039fa1.jpg.html)

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Rock2_zpse5a59fc2.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Rock2_zpse5a59fc2.jpg.html)

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Rock3_zps471a0a44.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Rock3_zps471a0a44.jpg.html)

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Rock4_zpsd2beccc3.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Rock4_zpsd2beccc3.jpg.html)

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Rock5_zps3fb5ce36.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Rock5_zps3fb5ce36.jpg.html)

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Rock6_zps9b687308.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Rock6_zps9b687308.jpg.html)

Mike6567
31st Jan 2014, 09:00
Second row (for some reason the landscape photos rotate on upload from photobucket?)

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Rock7_zpsf3303b65.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Rock7_zpsf3303b65.jpg.html)

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Rock8_zpsbf68cb04.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Rock8_zpsbf68cb04.jpg.html)

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Rock9_zps16a78eac.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Rock9_zps16a78eac.jpg.html)

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Rock10_zps179474b2.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Rock10_zps179474b2.jpg.html)

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Rock11_zpsa1e4e764.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/mike6567_photos/media/Rock11_zpsa1e4e764.jpg.html)

Pelikal
31st Jan 2014, 09:24
Nothing to contribute further other than to say what a fascinating thread. Just shows what a group of people can collectively achieve and 'anonymous' people at that. From the beginning I was sure it wasn't Dorset and probably more than one place, got that much right! I then bowed out to the greater knowledge and experience.

Mike must be pretty chuffed at the response here, well done.:D

Checkboard
31st Jan 2014, 11:04
If you go to that old album, and left-click on the photos, you can select "View Image Info" and gain a few clues ... :)

sitigeltfel
31st Jan 2014, 11:31
Nice big rock, free for uplift..........

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72644000/jpg/_72644320_020843727-1.jpg

BBC News - Boulder smashes through Italian farm (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25975251)

500N
31st Jan 2014, 11:36
Nice viewing platform for the vineyard - or what is left of it :O

I think maybe a drill and a small amount of PE is needed to
"fracture" it into smaller pieces !


Anyway, back to the task at hand, seeing all the photos together helps.

Mike6567
31st Jan 2014, 13:20
Thanks Checkboard.
I have now updated the security but still not sure how to eliminate the left click on photo giving the information?

Pelikal
31st Jan 2014, 13:36
Mike, what security are you worried about? The images are on Photobucket and the Album has to be Public for them to be seen.

A right click> view image info will give image details. A left click shows the image in Photobucket.

Checkboard
31st Jan 2014, 13:37
haha :) Sorry - It was supposed to be a joke, showing the dichotomy between our new world digital age and your old, paper, photo album ;)

Airey Belvoir
1st Feb 2014, 00:42
There must be someone on here from Pommieland that is willing to take a trip to Ramshaw Rocks and check it out for us ......... isn't there???

wiggy
1st Feb 2014, 01:02
Gentlemen (?Ladies)

Since I bowed out at an early stage, having gone off at a tangent I reckon it's a :D :D :D:D to the sluths who cracked the case. Even the likes of Morse or Poirot would have been impressed. Take the rest of the day off.....

In all honesty an example of the inter wait thingy at it's best......:ok: now if I post a picture can anybody tell me where I put my false teeth last night?

handsfree
1st Feb 2014, 09:57
Some kind soul has made a video of Renshaw Rocks from the air.
This would seem to confirm it to be the location of the waving young lad. The road and field layouts seem to match for the lad to have been sat on the outcrop which appears in the distance and in closer view right at the end of the clip.

Vibration Trials on Go Pro at Ramshaw Rocks - YouTube

ZOOKER
1st Feb 2014, 16:08
Love the 'quad-copter' footage.
Sirikit, et al, many thanks again for your comments.
Looking at all the pictures together, I'm convinced all the rocks are 'Millstone Grit', from the Namurian Stage of the Carboniferous period.
The roadway with the tramcar has been driving me mad. For some reason, it's screaming 'The Peak District', and I'm sure I have been there, but in spite of much 'Googling', still no joy.
Similar-age rocks outcrop around Bristol, so it could be down that way.
I'll keep trying.

When I worked in ATC, our unit 'Ops Section' received an envelope containing 20 photographs taken out of a/c windows by a violinist with The Halle Orchestra, on her way to and from various 'gigs'.
The accompanying letter asked us to identify the areas photographed. I think we got 18/20 after about 3 weeks. The lady who sent them was delighted and even came on a visit to see what we did.
Great fun.

jumpseater
1st Feb 2014, 18:06
The tram is almost certainly standard gauge 4 ft 8.5in gauge as all uk systems that i can think of with double decks were of that gauge. I'll copy the pic across to a geek site to see if anyone I know can ident it.

Further to above I've just looked through one of my books and I think Derby Corporation Tramways may be a possible operator. Putting aside the geographical connection they have a similar livery in a 1904 image and ran until the mid 30's, a google image search shows similar liveries but not an identical tram. Any derby locals recognise the location? I can think of a way to route check it using google street, but no time at the mo as making the kids tea!

ShyTorque
1st Feb 2014, 19:27
I have driven round the Ramshaw rocks area in the past, in my little homebuilt car and on my motorbike. By retracing my route from Tittesworth Reservoir via Google Earth, I may have found the actual location.

I think it's called "Hen Cloud".

@Grid reference: SK009614

Here's a link to a climbing website. It's the fifth photo. The top of the pinnacle has changed a bit, but the lower part looks the same.

UKC Photos - 'hen cloud' gallery (http://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/search.html?text=hen+cloud&x=0&y=0)

ZOOKER
1st Feb 2014, 20:08
I knew the building to the right, behind the tram, was somewhere I'd been to.
Many thanks to henry-crun for pointing out something I'd missed.
The view is looking due west along the A461, from west of the Burnt Tree roundabout towards Dudley Castle.
The pointy-roofed building is now the location of JB's, a small concert venue, where, on the 24th April 2007, I saw Steve Winwood play an absolute belter of a set. Everything from Spencer Davis to 'About Time'. :ok:

TBirdFrank
1st Feb 2014, 21:45
Mr Jumpseat - Birmingham and other midlands tramways were narrow gauge - 3' 6" - hence the pronounced tall and thin appearance of their vehicles.

That location and the operator is a done deal.

Here's Dudley with same castle on the same hill






http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7064/6793410844_6ded623a87_b.jpg


And here's a Birmingham car showing the narrow profile


http://thebirminghampress.com/bpress/wp-content/uploads/4393938937_c8f567f987.jpg

jumpseater
1st Feb 2014, 22:36
Tbf
Yes, so I found earlier after zookers post, apologies for doubting your earlier comment. I was surprised to find that it was narrow gauge, trams not being a specialist interest in my chuffer library :0)

So we've solved the puzzle off a rock and a tram from a couple of pictures, what's next, the Middle East?

Duckbutt
1st Feb 2014, 23:16
TBF thank you for the backing re the tram location. The (somewhat geekish I know) reason for the positive identification of the Birmingham tram car is that the bottom half of the window to the right of the driver's position of all their trams had a white square which is clearly visible in the picture and as far as I know this feature is exclusive to the Birmingham fleet. With regard to the location, at first I thought it might be somewhere the Lickey Hills terminus of their route to Rednal just south of the city (that is actually the location of tramcar no 769 in Frank's second picture above). However after Googling various pictures I couldn't find a match.

I then recalled that there was a castle on a hill at Dudley near the zoo and having noted that this town was also a Birmingham tram destination started looking there. Eventually I came across a picture of the old Dudley Opera House which burned down in 1936 and could be matched to the large building behind the tram(s). After the fire it would seem that the wrecked structure was demolished and the Hippodrome variety theatre was built on the same site - this later became a bingo hall and is now derelict I believe. It is next to JB's that Zooker mentions.

TBirdFrank
2nd Feb 2014, 00:15
So all we need is some happy snappers to park up on the A53 - in the February gales - yeah! and prove the other location as Ramshaw Rocks, Upper Hulme, as also suggested yesterday.

In all truth I am amazed that from the hundreds of images on Google none are a match for the outcrops that appear to have been a mere walk for the 1930s photographers

Airey Belvoir
2nd Feb 2014, 00:39
I am not convinced that the two close ups next to the big rock are at Ramshaw Rocks. The bedding planes are somewhat different to that at Ramshaw. They are more akin to those found slightly further north. Whilst, as far as I can tell, they are not at Stanage or Froggatt they have very similar characteristics.


Like I say.....we need someone in pommieland to get out to Ramshaw Rocks and take a bit of a walk. The drone pics are good but no substitute for shanks' pony http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

ShyTorque
2nd Feb 2014, 08:30
AB, Did you check out the link I posted to the "Hen Cloud" photo? The bedding planes are more horizontal and seem to match the rock in the first photo from the OP much better, albeit with some differences to the top layer which might be expected with folk climbing on there for decades.

Hen Cloud lies to the south of the area, known as "The Roaches". I think the road might not be the Leek Road, but a minor one that runs WNW, just off it, to the south of the rocks.

Airey Belvoir
2nd Feb 2014, 09:09
Yep - checked that out. Hen Cloud and the 30s photos are different. The formations in the Roaches tend to dip down from face to hillside whereas the 30s photos tend to dip hillside to face and/or horizontal.


In any event Hen Cloud is rather a big piece of rock (40' plus) whereas the 30s ones are only 10'.


Also rock like that does not change much over time. The rocks on Stanage and Froggatt are exactly the same as when I was climbing them almost 50 years ago.

Airey Belvoir
2nd Feb 2014, 09:22
I've put a plea for help on the UK Climbing website.


UKC Forums - The Pub (http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=577396)


Maybe it will turn up trumps?

Airey Belvoir
2nd Feb 2014, 23:23
With only a few replies so far the general consensus on the climbing web site is that the rock is probably in the more northerly gritstone area.

Mike6567
3rd Feb 2014, 17:51
Well done Airey. They seem to have found it up at Kinder North Edge.
Hope this link works

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=53.40407,-1.876709&spn=0.003297,0.006539&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.40407,-1.876709&cbp=12,0,,0,0&photoid=po-51345586

TBirdFrank
4th Feb 2014, 00:05
Pah! All of three miles from where I bought my chinky tonight! But I havent been over Kinder since 1967, and don't suppose I ever will again now!

As I type I have my back to the hills - but I can't quite see Kinder for Coombes Rocks

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk231/45596/20131110002LongdendaleImg_3042_zps1d9f518d.jpg

My place is just behind the bush to the left of the picture looking up at Coombes Rocks. Kinder is the larger mass visible from the Memorial on top of Werneth Low. This shot was Remembrance Day last year

Airey Belvoir
4th Feb 2014, 00:13
The pic on Mike's link is:


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c92/allan907/Therock_zpsf422dc50.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/allan907/media/Therock_zpsf422dc50.jpg.html)

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mike6567_photos/Rock10_zps179474b2.jpg (http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13914764725586&key=1e857e7500cdd32403f752206c297a3d&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pprune.org%2Fjet-blast%2F532886-help-locating-rock-please-6.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fs186.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fmike6567_phot os%2Fmedia%2FRock10_zps179474b2.jpg.html&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pprune.org%2Fjet-blast%2F532886-help-locating-rock-please-7.html&libId=40de40b3-1570-4838-9d7d-aaec7017c86d&title=Help%20in%20locating%20this%20rock%20please%20-%20Page%206%20-%20PPRuNe%20Forums&txt=%3Cimg%20alt%3D%22%22%20src%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fi186.photo bucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx167%2Fmike6567_photos%2FRock10_zps179 474b2.jpg%22%20border%3D%220%22%3E)
This is definitely the rock - and confirms what I thought about it being in the more northerly gritstone regions.


Ain't the internet a wonderful thing!

500N
4th Feb 2014, 00:18
It sure is.

That is what I have been waiting for, a current photo.

I figured "rock apes" would get it quite quickly.

Little cloud
4th Feb 2014, 08:40
Airey Belvoir- currently being recruited by MI5, MI6 and the CID!

Great team effort/expertise and tenacity.

handsfree
4th Feb 2014, 08:46
I think that particular rock out crop is known as The Edge and the stream and gulley at the bottom is Ashop Clough.
I may be wrong as it's the best part of 40 years since I've wandered that way.

TBirdFrank
4th Feb 2014, 16:55
Me and you both - Summer 67 walked from Glossop over Kinder to the Snake.

Can't remember for the life of me how we got back from there!

Thank God I live somewhere with a horizon!

And well done team!

Mike6567
5th Feb 2014, 15:03
Update to confirm the tram photo (I have cheated a little by corresponding with the Dudley Archives Centre who were very helpful).
The photo is Birmingham Road with the bus garage just to the left of the picture. The large building in the centre of the picture is (as pointed out by Duckbutt earlier) the Opera House which burnt down in 1936.
The long wall on the right is where the train line goes into a tunnel under Birmingham Road (the railway station was behind this wall).
Unfortunately it is a little far otherwise I would have taken a modern photo.
Once again thanks to all for your help. Mike

G-CPTN
5th Feb 2014, 15:24
So now you can enjoy 'closure'!