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brockenspectre
20th Jan 2014, 09:03
WAKE UP ROSETTA!!!

Today, 20 January 2014, is the day that ESA (European Space Agency) wil try to wake up Rosetta after a 31 month nap. Rosetta had to be powered down because it was so far from the sun that an energy conservation mode was needed and it was the only way that it was possible to get to Comet Churyumov-Gerasenko.

LIVESTREAM now at: Space in Videos - ESA Live (http://www.esa.int/spaceinvideos/esalive)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OKb1FfwFEzA/UtzzEIuSjTI/AAAAAAAACvY/q44MMvcfCLE/s800/FB_COVERwakeupRosetta1.png

More info on the mission here: Rosetta / Space Science / Our Activities / ESA (http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta)

:ok:

Rossian
20th Jan 2014, 12:07
......what if it hits the snooze button and sends back a "b774er" off message?

Actually, I think it is a fantastic feat, on a par with the Voyager mission.

The Ancient Mariner

dead_pan
20th Jan 2014, 12:34
Fingers crossed for this one. What time is the wake-up call set for?

603DX
20th Jan 2014, 12:37
Must be a fascinating project to work on, the technology to make it all work as planned is mindblowing. The concept of chasing a comet, orbitting it and sending the Philae lander down onto the solid core is the stuff of yesterday's dreams, and today's reality. A bit like that hit song of decades ago, "Catch a Falling Star", brought to life by a team of very clever people indeed.

And I really like their choice of names for the hardware involved, Rosetta after the historic inscribed basalt rock of the Rosetta Stone, the key to deciphering ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics, is inspired. The god Osiris is also the name of some of the instrumentation, and the lander Philae is named after the island temples complex of Philae at Aswan. A place of wondrous things inscribed on the temple walls and columns, which it was only possible to read and understand by applying the information revealed by the discovery of the Rosetta Stone. An awesome place, which impressed me very much when I visited it 15 years ago.

Nemrytter
20th Jan 2014, 15:53
Fingers crossed for this one. What time is the wake-up call set for?If all has gone well then the signal from Rosetta should be picked up some time soon after 5:30pm UK time.

Pelikal
20th Jan 2014, 15:56
Hoping Rosetta doesn't have a deep space hangover.

Alan Price & Georgie Fame - Rosetta 1971 - YouTube

:)

B Fraser
20th Jan 2014, 16:38
The live broadcast from ESA shows happy smiling faces, it appears we have a signal.

G-CPTN
20th Jan 2014, 17:00
According to live (Beeb) radio there's no response yet.

G-CPTN
20th Jan 2014, 17:21
Rosetta has responded!

A guy who worked on Rosetta when he was a student has reported that the original plan was to return a sample of the comet to Earth.

Edited to add:- By 1993 it was evident that the ambitious sample return mission was unfeasible with the existing ESA budget, so the mission was redesigned,From:- Rosetta (spacecraft) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_%28spacecraft%29)


In May 2014, the Rosetta craft will enter a slow orbit around the comet and gradually slow down in preparation for releasing a lander that will make contact with the comet itself. The lander, named "Philae", will approach Churyumov–Gerasimenko at relative speed around 1 m/s and on contact with the surface, two harpoons will be fired into the comet to prevent the lander from bouncing off. Additional drills are used to further secure the lander on the comet.

Once attached to the comet, expected to take place in November 2014, the lander will begin its science mission:

Characterisation of the nucleus
Determination of the chemical compounds present, including enantiomers
Study of comet activities and developments over time

The exact surface layout of the comet is currently unknown and the orbiter has been built to map this before detaching the lander. It is anticipated that a suitable landing site can be found, although few specific details exist regarding the surface.

.

airship
20th Jan 2014, 17:27
On behalf of all the anti-EU folks here: "Just what have all these publicly-funded scientists etc. at ESA been doing in the 10 years between the original launch of the probe in 2004 and today? No. I'll tell you. Growing bio-vegetables in the gardens of their villas, staying at home raising their children and also claiming family allowances from social security. Whilst being paid fat salaries just to check their work email once a week...?!" :mad: ;)

ricardian
20th Jan 2014, 17:38
BBC report contact made (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25814454)

brockenspectre
20th Jan 2014, 17:40
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2Mw2HSWU6TU/Ut1rYdnuTaI/AAAAAAAACv0/I5QQXFotaNE/s640/FB_RosettaWakeup.png

well.... I had just commented that maybe, like animals after hibernation, waking into a cold world, Rosetta needed a little time to "come to" and... she woke!!

Fabulous achievement ...

Link to Press Release (http://www.esa.int/For_Media/Press_Releases/Rosetta_ESA_s_sleeping_beauty_wakes_up_from_deep_space_hiber nation)

:ok:

OFSO
20th Jan 2014, 17:43
all these publicly-funded scientists etc. at ESA

Dear Airship: as an ex ESA staffer, let me answer your question.

ESA currently has the following missions flying or in preparation for launch:-

Science and Robotic Exploration Programs
Hubble (participation)
SOHO
CASSINI-HUYGENS (participation)
XMM-Newton
Cluster
Integral
Mars Express
Venus Express
Rosetta
Herschel
Lisa Pathfinder
Microscope
Gaia
James Webb Space Telescope (participation)
BepiColombo
Solar Orbiter
Euclid
Juice
Cosmic Vison
Exomars

Earth Observation Program
MTG
MSG
METOP
CRYOSAT
GOCE
SMOS
AEOLUS
SWARM
Earthcare
Biomass
Sentinal 1
Sentinal 2
Sentinal 3
Sentinal 5 Precursor
Jason C5

Telecomms & Navigation Programs
Artemis
Alphasat
EDRS
SmallGeo
Hylas
GNSS/EGNOS
Galileo

Technology program
PROBA-1
PROBA-2
PROBA-3
PROBA-V

Human Spaceflight Program
Colombus
ATV
ELIPS ISS Utilisation (shared)
Transporter

Launcher Program
ARIANE 5 Post ECA
ARIANE 5 & 6
VEGA
SOYUZ (shared)
IXV

Of course different people have varying workloads - some constant - some varied. In my own case we had calm followed by several weeks of preparing mission documention, four to six hectic weeks of simulations (often 14 hours a day twice a week), launch and initial campaign (which is like nursing a new-born baby) and then back to routine.....

But if you look at ESA's immense workload and compare it to the budget, you see the tax payers get a great return on their investments. Most of that return goes into giving tens of thousands of people in Europe WORK, either directly or indirectly.

beaufort1
20th Jan 2014, 17:47
Very impressive. :ok:

OFSO
20th Jan 2014, 17:58
Just imagine if the Rosetta lander puts its probe into the comet, withdraws a sample, analyses it and discovers it is...Guinness. That'll increase Irelands annual contribution to ESA sine dubio. And will answer a question much more important than "where did our planet's water come from."

dead_pan
21st Jan 2014, 08:31
as an ex ESA staffer

As an ex-ESA contractor, I can tell a few stories of corruption and the like. Our client at ESTEC was sacked for embezzling - apparently he had been sending himself invoices to sign off. I'm sure you too heard the rumours about that lovely wooden-clad building at the site...

But on the whole you're right. ESA deliver quite a lot of bang for their taxpayer buck.

radeng
21st Jan 2014, 10:13
One questions the worth of Galileo, though.

dead_pan
21st Jan 2014, 11:14
And will answer a question much more important than "where did our planet's water come from."

Well - ish. This then leads to the much more difficult to answer questions "where did comets' water come from?" and "how did so much of it end up on comets?"

Nemrytter
21st Jan 2014, 11:34
MSG
METOP
Technically those are EUMETSAT and not ESA missions. ESA only had control during commissioning - the rest of the time they are under EUMETSAT control.

Still European, mind you :)

Airey Belvoir
21st Jan 2014, 14:13
My local town had a link to this programme. ESA needed a relatively radio quiet spot to put their satellite dish for the Rosetta mission. They had earmarked the perfect spot a short way out of town in a valley which was shielded from the radio noise of Perth. It was going to bring construction jobs and, some would say, a degree of tourism to the town as well as putting us in the world spotlight for a while (we did that with a big bush fire in 2009 which may well have cleaned up the dish as it started not far from that site!).


However, the NIMBY's got their teeth into it. It was going to fell the birds out of the sky; it was going to make us a nuclear target; it was going to depress house prices etc etc etc. Knowing the protagonists it may well have been a coincidence that they were all greenies and leftists.


So ESA did the only thing possible and said "Right. Sod you; the next Shire wants it so that's where we'll go"


Presumably the staff there have been working hard of late.

Loose rivets
21st Jan 2014, 15:44
Water is at once, very simple and yet an incredibly finely balanced mix of particles and electrical forces. Creationists might well surmise that a vast ball of water was created for each solar system and then a huge mass fired into it. The resultant blobs found their way to other blobs and were harvested by needy planets' gravity. Being in orbit would save some of it from being wasted in the suns.

Or, they just are.

OFSO
21st Jan 2014, 16:29
the rest of the time they are under EUMETSAT control.

True, but the METEOSAT boys are located just a couple of clicks down the road from ESOC.

Break, break, funny true story time. When the first METEOSAT was launched we found one command (which we will call 'A' ) actually did something (which we will call 'B',) and command 'B' did 'A'. Call was placed to the builders (not a million miles from Toulouse) and two guys turned up quite quickly. Situation explained to them, empty packet of Gauloise pulled from pocket with writing scribbed on the inside, reply came "ah mais oui, we 'ave thought zat it would work better that way, look....we ' ave changed this and that..."

When asked whether they bothered to document any of these changes we got a blank look.

airship
21st Jan 2014, 17:31
OFSO wrote: all these publicly-funded scientists etc. at ESA

Dear Airship: as an ex ESA staffer, let me answer your question.

ESA currently has the following missions flying or in preparation for launch:-

Science and Robotic Exploration Programs
Hubble (participation)
SOHO
CASSINI-HUYGENS (participation)
XMM-Newton
Cluster
Integral
Mars Express
Venus Express
Rosetta
Herschel
Lisa Pathfinder
Microscope
Gaia
James Webb Space Telescope (participation)
BepiColombo
Solar Orbiter
Euclid
Juice
Cosmic Vison
Exomars

Earth Observation Program
MTG
MSG
METOP
CRYOSAT
GOCE
SMOS
AEOLUS
SWARM
Earthcare
Biomass
Sentinal 1
Sentinal 2
Sentinal 3
Sentinal 5 Precursor
Jason C5

Telecomms & Navigation Programs
Artemis
Alphasat
EDRS
SmallGeo
Hylas
GNSS/EGNOS
Galileo

Technology program
PROBA-1
PROBA-2
PROBA-3
PROBA-V

Human Spaceflight Program
Colombus
ATV
ELIPS ISS Utilisation (shared)
Transporter

Launcher Program
ARIANE 5 Post ECA
ARIANE 5 & 6
VEGA
SOYUZ (shared)
IXV

It's therefore perhaps unsurprising that so many EU / ESA endeavours have often gone wrong, "too many cooks in the kitchen" as it were?! Specialists in their own domains perhaps , but seconded to other projects where they buggered it all up maybe...?! :ok:

Lonewolf_50
21st Jan 2014, 17:49
Can't we just say "well done!" to the team at ESA for their thing working and their mission continuing, and leave the political FOD to the side?

Well Done! :ok:

OFSO
21st Jan 2014, 17:56
so many EU / ESA endeavours have often gone wrong

Utter piffle and rubbish

seconded to other projects

What does this mean ? In 25 years at ESA I never knew anyone to be "seconded to other projects".

If you don't know what you are talking about, better say nothing. Or produce some evidence for these ludicruous statements.

airship
21st Jan 2014, 18:15
OFSO wrote: In 25 years at ESA I never knew anyone to be "seconded to other projects". Which sort of reinforces my original question / point about what all the scientists "in the 10 years between the original launch of the probe in 2004 and today" have been doing...?! :p

If you don't know what you are talking about, better say nothing. Or produce some evidence for these ludicruous statements. Apply the same rules to yerself then...?! :ok:

Pelikal
21st Jan 2014, 18:23
Hhmmm... I suppose thread drift but what are them lot doing within CERN that is going to make a fundamental difference to our existence?

Lonewolf_50
21st Jan 2014, 20:02
Hhmmm... I suppose thread drift but what are them lot doing within CERN that is going to make a fundamental difference to our existence?
They'll help you understand why people are overweight. What you've been taught in school and from the media gnashing of teeth regarding obesity will be turned upside down. :E






(The Higg's Boson allegedly explains why things have mass. ;) )

Nemrytter
21st Jan 2014, 22:41
Which sort of reinforces my original question / point about what all the scientists "in the 10 years between the original launch of the probe in 2004 and today" have been doing...?! ESA does not actually employ that many scientists. Most (but not all) scientists on the Rosetta mission are university lecturers, post-docs and professors. They'll have spent the last 10 years working on their research and teaching. Those that do work for ESA will have had plenty to keep them busy (Rosetta has been doing plenty of stuff for the majority of its journey).

Break, break, funny true story time. When the first METEOSAT was launched we found one command (which we will call 'A' ) actually did something (which we will call 'B',) and command 'B' did 'A'.
...
When asked whether they bothered to document any of these changes we got a blank look.Not much has changed, we still encounter those problems with MSG!

Airey Belvoir
22nd Jan 2014, 00:05
what are them lot doing within CERN that is going to make a fundamental difference to our existence?


They've been busy creating mini, very mini, black holes. These things are microscopic but are still black holes. Lurking. Gathering matter. And gradually, oh so gradually, getting bigger. And once they've reached a critical mass in about 150 - 200 years time then it's all over red rover as the planet is consumed.

TURIN
14th Aug 2014, 10:18
At the risk of opening up old wounds I just thought I would resurrect this thread as Rosetta is now in orbit and will be launching the lander within the next couple of weeks.

The Sky at Night had a very good 'special' program on it the other day. Available on iplayer for those who missed it.

OFSO
14th Aug 2014, 11:27
I'm surprised the JB Loonies haven't emerged from under their moon rocks and suggested the whole thing is as faked as the moon landings supposedly were...

SpringHeeledJack
14th Aug 2014, 11:57
Why was this asteroid singled out in particular ? When I watched a short segment on what was needed to get it to it's present position, my mind boggled and I was reminded of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAWJdXJvngU

Has this particular asteroid been flagged as a possible extinction level candidate some time in the future ? :uhoh:



SHJ

TURIN
12th Nov 2014, 08:14
Lander on it's way.

Rosetta Mission ESA (http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Operations/Live_updates_Rosetta_mission_comet_landing)

An amazing feat just to get it this far.

tony draper
12th Nov 2014, 08:28
I remember the mission control room during the Moon landing when they were handing of cigars,imagine the shrieks of horror that would cause nowadays,the arsoles in Brussels would prolly withdraw all their funding.
:E

mikedreamer787
12th Nov 2014, 08:36
And the handing out of cigars at the hossy by the proud dad when one's child got borned Mr Drapes. Back in them days the old man was told to wait outside the delivery room until the kid was out - probably a hygiene thing but I suspect it was to protect him from seeing his missus pushing out the equivalent of a pot roast from her quim. I did once, and like "Jaws" it was a long time before I dove into the ocean again so to speak!

tony draper
12th Nov 2014, 08:48
Yer sprogulating was strictly women's business once the blokes kept well out of the way, prolly as nature intended.
:rolleyes:

TURIN
12th Nov 2014, 08:49
I stayed at the other end and that was bad enough. If I was put in that position again I think I would have to make my excuses........:uhoh:

Anyway, Rosetta's lander will touch down in about 6hrs so I'm off to bed.

ricardian
12th Nov 2014, 09:59
Live coverage has just started (http://new.livestream.com/accounts/362/events/3544091)

OFSO
12th Nov 2014, 14:32
For ludicruous reporting, you should have heard the bimbo on Sky News this morning talking about Rosetta "firing" the lander at the comet as it "shoots past".

If she'd have been there (and I wish she had been) she'd have seen Rosetta stationary relative to the comet and the lander very very slowly descending to the comet with the journey taking seven hours.

In fact if she'd really been there she'd have been unable to detect any forward movement of the comet and Rosetta at all.

She also stated she "dislikes science fiction" which explains her ill-informed comments.

Sallyann1234
12th Nov 2014, 15:18
Amazing achievement. By Europe!

dazdaz1
12th Nov 2014, 15:25
I'm with you SpringHeelJack my thoughts exactly! Could it be that the little fridge sized thingy might in fact be a nuke?

Fortyodd2
12th Nov 2014, 15:28
Of course, you do realise that this is all being done in a hangar at a disused air force base in Nevada - who is going to check?? Won't even be any astronauts to interview afterwards :-)

G-CPTN
12th Nov 2014, 15:36
Apparently, this 'fridge' will detach from the comet next time it passes close to the sun - adding to the space debris.

ricardian
12th Nov 2014, 15:45
What really happened!


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2Ppyl9IUAEOB-5.jpg

G-CPTN
12th Nov 2014, 15:45
Apparently, the anchors haven't fired - so there is concern that the fridge might fall off prematurely.

sitigeltfel
12th Nov 2014, 15:55
the little fridge sized thingy

Hold on, they said on breakfast telly that it was the size of a washing machine? Hopefully it is performing better than OFSOs sick Miele!

rgbrock1
12th Nov 2014, 16:31
I sincerely hope the "fridge" is well-stocked with appropriate amounts of beer.

brickhistory
12th Nov 2014, 16:32
Well done!

G-CPTN
12th Nov 2014, 16:41
They make a point of stating that folk have been working for 'ten years' - yet during that time the Rosetta has been travelling through space - so what have they been doing?

igs942
12th Nov 2014, 16:45
Well done ESA! After the success of the Indian Mars Probe earlier this year can you imagine the heart sinkage as the first image arrives and there's an Indian flag on the hill in the background.

OFSO
12th Nov 2014, 17:04
They make a point of stating that folk have been working for 'ten years' - yet during that time the Rosetta has been travelling through space - so what have they been doing?

All this information is on the net. But there have been manoeuvres, multiple planetary fly-pasts, housekeeping and observations of scientific data. Even when I worked at ESA the amount of scientific date we received was such that it wasn't uncommon to still have staff processing this data ten years after a mission had been ended by reentry.

Rosetta did NOT travel in a straight line from the launch site to the comet ! Take one small period - May to August this year - regular thruster burns for spacecraft orientation and braking purposes to kill the 800 m/s relative velocity difference.

During quiet periods (if any) simulations are held involving the control centre and stations.

A COMPLEX JOURNEY

Rosetta could not head straight for the comet. Instead it began a series of looping orbits around the Sun that brought it back for three Earth fly-bys and one Mars fly-by. Each time, the spacecraft changed its velocity and trajectory as it extracted energy from the gravitational field of Earth or Mars. During these planetary fly-bys, the science teams checked out their instruments and, in some cases, took the opportunity to carry out science observations coordinated with other ESA spacecraft such as Mars Express, ENVISAT and Cluster.

Each of the fly-bys required months of intense preparation. In particular the fly-by of Mars in February 2007 was a critical operation: the new mission trajectory to 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko required that Rosetta fly past Mars at just 250 km from the surface, and spend 24 minutes in its shadow.

The spacecraft had been designed for the mission to Wirtanen, which did not include a period in Mars's shadow. The flight team had to re-programme the spacecraft completely in the months preceding the Mars fly-by, teaching Rosetta "not to worry" and to avoid potentially catastrophic autonomous reactions to the absence of sunlight on the solar panels and Sun sensors.

When the Rosetta signal reappeared after the passage behind Mars, shortly after the end of the "shadow" period, there was a collective sigh of relief.

SCIENCE ALONG THE WAY

En-route to the comet, Rosetta encountered two asteroids. These allowed the scientists and flight team to practise with the instruments and to gain more valuable experience about how to navigate the spacecraft. A highlight from the first encounter was Rosetta executing a manoeuvre that had originally been termed too risky.

Asteroid Steins is tiny, just 5 kilometres across; about the size of a large village. On 5 September 2008, Rosetta was to fly past at a distance of 800 kilometres, roughly the distance between Paris and Munich, and keep everything in the sharpest focus possible. To do this throughout the fly-by would have meant exposing one face of the spacecraft to the Sun for longer than allowed.
The original strategy defined by the spacecraft manufacturer, taking into account Rosetta's thermal and mechanical constraints, involved stopping before the closest approach to turn the spacecraft back to its nominal attitude. This would have led to significant loss of data. Naturally, the data-hungry scientists wanted to take observations all the way through.

So the flight control team invented and tested a new strategy, such that Rosetta tracked the asteroid autonomously all the way through the encounter, boosting confidence in the spacecraft enormously.

However, not everything went according to plan. The OSIRIS science camera and the navigation cameras did not work exactly as expected during the fly-by revealing another quirk of the spacecraft's personality. The team worked out how to ensure this did not happen again so that the next fly-by would be a success.

This paved the way for the mission's most celebrated science highlight prior to arriving at comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko: the fly-by of asteroid Lutetia in July 2010.

Whereas Steins was a small jumble of rocky debris that resembled a solid object, Lutetia was a miniature world, with a diameter of 130 kilometres. At the time, it was the largest asteroid ever seen in close-up.
Rosetta was going to fly past at a greater distance, 3162 kilometres this time in order to allow the full asteroid to appear in the field of view of the scientific cameras. Nevertheless, the spacecraft would be out of communications with Earth for about 40 minutes as it turned its attention to Lutetia.

The vigil was worth it. Rosetta began streaming back its data, revealing a mini-world of the most complex geology. Its pulverised surface appeared to be poor in metals but showed the presence of hydrated minerals. There were rockslides and giant craters covering this battered relic from the formation of the Solar System.
In terms of aesthetics, the beauty-shot was an image that Rosetta had snapped on approach, showing the looming bulk of the asteroid in the foreground. In the distance, more than ten thousand times further away from the spacecraft, was the unmistakable shape of Saturn and her rings.

Rosetta sped on. It had charged past the asteroid at a relative speed of 54 000 kilometres per hour and was heading for the comet.

Sallyann1234
12th Nov 2014, 18:40
It's good to see that there is some amusement here.

Personally I am seriously in awe of a group who can launch a mission into space that will meet up 10 years later with a comet moving at 34000 mph through 3D space, and send a probe that will land on its surface the correct way up to send data back to earth.

con-pilot
12th Nov 2014, 18:46
Personally I am seriously in awe of a group who can launch a mission into space that will meet up 10 years later with a comet moving at 34000 mph through 3D space, and send a probe that will land on its surface the correct way up to send data back to earth.

As well as I.

Very well done! :ok:

beaufort1
12th Nov 2014, 18:51
It is an astonishing achievement. Well done. :ok:

I really wish the US and the Europeans would forge closer links to enhance cooperation and thus make quicker progress within the sphere of space exploration. :)

Sallyann1234
12th Nov 2014, 19:33
What this achievement really demonstrates is that you do not need manned missions in order to explore the solar system. You can spend all your money on instrumentation and data gathering instead of life-support systems.

OFSO
12th Nov 2014, 19:45
I know this is going to annoy the Cousins but here goes.

Entering into a long-term project committment with US Government Agencies is extremely difficult. The reason is the relatively short period between elections, and what happens when the next President arrives in office, which is that he looks around for budget items to cut as being "unnecessary". In my time, NASA had several joint projects with ESA axed - whoa, don't complain, it wasn't NASA's fault, but the funding was cut.

Entering into a joint project with any European country is different. Why ? Because they don't want to lose face by pulling out or reducing their funding. Obviously this applies to Germany and France but also to Italy Spain and all the rest. And the UK ? Well they are the only country to increase their overall funding recently. The reason = obvious.

And Russia ? No problem at all. They are used to long-term projects, do not pull out, and have a way of ensuring that staff comply with requirements of their projects. In fact for many years Russia has proved a very satisfactory partner to ESA.

If NASA had the ability to commit to a "space project" - and we are talking here five to ten years design, ten to twenty years in-space-life including data processing - things would be satisfactory.

Incidently, there was a painful-to-watch NASA guy talking on SKY News tonight about the USA being the "junior partner" on the Rosetta project, "and we have to get used to it" he said. I would remind him it's nothing new. Which country couldn't afford to send a probe to Halley's Comet in March 1986 ? I quote from an official history:

Originally a United States partner probe was planned that would accompany Giotto, but this fell through due to budget cuts at NASA.

Says it all.

G-CPTN
12th Nov 2014, 19:55
Some interesting comments made by one of the 'frontmen' (BTW I didn't see any females) claiming that any specie would need to seek alternative places to inhabit and that this mission could be part of that exploration.

Is there any evidence that other lifeforms (other than plantmatter) have successfully travelled through space? Or were the ancient Egyptians and Incas really 'aliens'? If so, how did they lose the technology that brought them to Earth?

TURIN
12th Nov 2014, 20:29
There is NO evidence.

Fareastdriver
12th Nov 2014, 20:29
I hope that the robot on the surface has not affected the balance of space and altered the course of the comet so that it is now Earthbound. 300,000,000 miles at 34,000 mph means that it should arrive in the Pacific on 15th November 2015.

tony draper
12th Nov 2014, 20:34
Agree great piece of navigation,also agree unmanned is the way to go,manned spaceflight is just a branch of showbiz and Hollywood does it so much better,the stars are not for we talking moneys ourselves,our clockwork representatives perhaps
:)

Mechta
12th Nov 2014, 20:37
Or were the ancient Egyptians and Incas really 'aliens'? If so, how did they lose the technology that brought them to Earth?

They were in the B ship* and crashed it. Being hairdressers and telephone sanitizers, they didn't know any better.


*Golgafrincham Ark Fleet, Ship B - Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy

11Fan
12th Nov 2014, 20:37
There is NO evidence.

The only real evidence that intelligent life exists outside of our universe is that they have made no attempt to contact us.

TURIN
12th Nov 2014, 20:38
Mechta.

One's never alone with a rubber duck.

ChristiaanJ
12th Nov 2014, 20:58
But shortly after, scientists could tell that the harpoons, designed to fasten the spacecraft to the 4km-wide (13ft) ball of ice and dust, had not fired as intended.
And there I was, thinking only the Daily Fail was capable of that calibre of bludners.

tony draper
12th Nov 2014, 21:01
We were a patch added to the great program just 150,000 years ago, as we see time anyway,we were and are a very badly bugged patch.
:rolleyes:

OFSO
13th Nov 2014, 04:48
Or were the ancient Egyptians and Incas really 'aliens'?

Watch 'Stargate', Mechta, and you'll learn that actually they were harvested by aliens to work at less-than-minimum-rate wages on a distant planet. So nothing new there, then.

rh200
13th Nov 2014, 05:29
But shortly after, scientists could tell that the harpoons, designed to fasten the spacecraft to the 4km-wide (13ft) ball of ice and dust, had not fired as intended.

Should have had help from the Japanese, opps then sea sheppard would be protesting:E.

Watch 'Stargate', Mechta, and you'll learn that actually they were harvested by aliens to work at less-than-minimum-rate wages on a distant planet. So nothing new there, then.

Then they all got the right to carry arms and beat down their oppressive masters, and lived happily ever after.:p

TURIN
13th Nov 2014, 09:05
BBC now reporting a 2hr 1km bounce!!!! :eek:

OFSO
13th Nov 2014, 09:06
Guy on Sky News at breakfast time...."the European Space Agency Commission".

Still telling viewers how amazing it was to land a probe on the comet as it whizzed by.

Surprised the word "plunged" hasn't been used, let alone "scientists screamed in joy". But next year we'll be informed how the comet "narrowly missed the planet earth" or possible "narrowly missed an infant's school" although I don't see how they can work "oxygen masks were deployed" into the story.

Sky News of course wheeled out an American from NASA to tell us all about it. Well, if it's space, it's NASA, isn't it ?

Interested Passenger
13th Nov 2014, 09:13
surely smashing a fridge into a comet will knock it off course, plunging it into the earth and causing a dinosaur extinction event.

We're all gonna die!!!!!

Just need CERN to create an antiblackhole to repel it.


must send my CV to the tabloids:ok:

Mechta
13th Nov 2014, 09:17
Or were the ancient Egyptians and Incas really 'aliens'?

Watch 'Stargate', Mechta, and you'll learn that actually they were harvested by aliens to work at less-than-minimum-rate wages on a distant planet. So nothing new there, then. Making sandwiches, no doubt...
(For the benefit of our colonial and ex-colonial brethren, this week's hot topic in the UK... :ugh:): You Britons are just too lazy! After Mail reveals sandwich firm that supplies M&S and Tesco has been forced to find staff abroad, the Hungarians tell us why | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2829280/You-Britons-just-lazy-Mail-reveals-sandwich-firm-supplies-M-S-Tesco-forced-staff-abroad-Hungarians-tell-why.html)

rh200, Mechta Minor was obsessed with Stargate for quite some time, and I sometimes wondered if he spent more time in their reality than ours. I've not seen it myself yet.

Presumably its ok to dump this old fridge on to a comet, as there is no ozone layer to deplete when it leaks? In the old days we went to Comet* to get a new one.:}

*Now defunct UK 'white goods' retailer

OFSO
13th Nov 2014, 09:18
Just need CERN to create an antiblackhole to repel it.

CERN's black holes are already available on the black market. If you don't believe me, compare the size of a Toblerone chocolate bar purchased today with one from five years ago.

(Note to any Daily Mail on-line journalists reading this: that's a joke, geddit ?)

Keef
13th Nov 2014, 10:20
First pictures of the surface have arrived...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1467226_10152372692552821_9209708768031248180_n.jpg?oh=8ae23 e5e948036e0985f95165087b065&oe=551CB5F1&__gda__=1423963206_ddd1c450500e8cc34972edc1038e4f4b

It wasn't the Ark Fleet after all!

mikedreamer787
13th Nov 2014, 10:54
I knew it! I bloody knew it!

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--VxM5pk6e--/181r660s1ca5tjpg.jpg

G-CPTN
13th Nov 2014, 13:44
'Given' that the water on Earth arrived from comets, how many and of what size would be required to provide the quantity that now exists?

Why did the arrival of comets cease?

Earth’s early history, including epochs with high ambient temperatures and no enveloping atmosphere, implies that surface water would have evaporated and drifted back into space. The water we encounter today, it seems, must have been delivered long after Earth formed.
Read more: History, Travel, Arts, Science, People, Places | Smithsonian (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-did-water-come-to-earth-72037248/#jaeX7oyyWOV0S5EY.99)

If comets are, primarily, composed of 'ice', would they not vapourize during entry through the Earth's atmosphere?

How come that similar deposits of water have not evolved on other planets (such as the Moon)?

Just asking . . .

airship
13th Nov 2014, 14:08
BBC now reporting a 2hr 1km bounce!!!! :eek:

I understand that Philae weighs approx. 100kg and speed at final approach about 1m/s :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/3/f/03f882b7de498678b4a5a6987e261aa7.png
I'd really like to know the shore hardness of the rubber duck...

tony draper
13th Nov 2014, 14:19
It's not a Comet it's a Cometry Core, that's what's left after the Sun has boiled off most of the volatile materials that once clothed it,it's like the gowk of a apple after you have gnawed upon it.
I am also tad doubtful about the comet delivery of water to this planet,one shall give the matter some thought one of these days and come up with what really happened.
:rolleyes:

dazdaz1
13th Nov 2014, 14:29
Turin, may I guide you to books written by Eric Von Daniken.

wiggy
13th Nov 2014, 14:37
If comets are, primarily, composed of 'ice', would they not vapourize during entry through the Earth's atmosphere?

Make the comet big enough (and a lot of them are big), and a significant proportion of the mass will survive entry.

How come that similar deposits of water have not evolved on other planets (such as the Moon)?


AFAIK there may well have been of water on the Moon (perhaps) and Mars at some time but a combination of their low gravitational attraction, lack of atmosphere and/or lack of a magnetic field means most of it will have escaped back into space eons ago, though there's lot of evidence of surface features produced by water erosion on Mars. There's still a hope of sub-surface deposits of water ice being found on both the Moon and Mars

dazdaz1
13th Nov 2014, 14:39
I'm in total agreement with you Tony " I am also tad doubtful about the comet delivery of water to this planet" Maybe it was some gezzer called God, nee some advanced inter galactic beings. Makes one wonder.

tony draper
13th Nov 2014, 14:47
Actually heard one of the Astronomer bods trundle out the old 'The cloud was disturbed by a passing star' this morning,whenever you hear the words 'Passing Star' from a Astronomer's lips what it actually means is 'We haven't a feckin clue how it happened'
:)

Fareastdriver
13th Nov 2014, 15:01
Who made the ice cubes?

BOAC
13th Nov 2014, 15:06
implies that surface water would have evaporated and drifted back into space. - but what if it was 'heavy water'?

PTT
13th Nov 2014, 15:22
There's still a hope of sub-surface deposits of water ice being found on both the Moon and MarsThe Martian ice caps are mostly water ice, I understand.
polar caps of Mars (http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/M/Marspoles.html)
The knowledge that the martian polar caps consist almost entirely of water ice goes back only a few years. Until recently, it was thought that both polar caps consisted largely of frozen carbon dioxide, with a small amount of water ice. This idea dates back to 1966, when the first Mars spacecraft determined that the martian atmosphere was largely carbon dioxide. Scientists at the time argued that the ice caps themselves were solid carbon dioxide and that the caps regulate the atmospheric pressure by evaporation and condensation.

Later observations by the Viking orbiters showed that the north polar cap contained water ice underneath its dry ice covering; however, experts continued to believe that the south polar cap was made of dry ice. In 2003, California Institute of Technology researchers Andy Ingersoll and Shane Byrne argued, on the basis of high-resolution and thermal images from Mars Global Surveyor and Mars Odyssey, respectively, that the martian polar ice caps are made almost entirely of water ice – with just a smattering of frozen carbon dioxide at the surface.

dazdaz1
13th Nov 2014, 15:22
Fareastdriver Ice cubes...... Let us consider a very nice lady.

Your on a beach in the early morning, the sun is to the east, the lady lays down on her beach towel, slips off her bikini top, what do you see? East of her breasts, sun light!! To the left of her breasts, shade, are you with me? Think hot and cold.

603DX
13th Nov 2014, 16:08
The media are reporting that the designed fixing harpoons didn't work for some reason, and that the fridge-sized lander is worryingly insecure as a result. In effect it seems that it's only feebly in contact with the comet surface - just travelling alongside it at the same speed, virtually "in close formation" as it were, and unattached - almost "floating".

Since it has a weight of about 100kg on earth, but next to nothing in its present position due to negligible gravitational pull from the rocky mass, then I'm wondering how those harpoons were going to be "shot" down into the surface with enough energy to penetrate and achieve satisfactory fixings, without the corresponding recoil sending it shooting off into space. If it remains unanchored, then drilling down into the rocky surface seems fraught with difficulty, because drilling needs to have a reaction force available. This is what the media appears to be reporting.

The brilliant team who have achieved the stupendous feat of getting Philae to its present location deserve hearty congratulations, and with that calibre of intellect putting their collective minds to these apparent problems, it seems possible that ingenious "Plan B" solutions might be arrived at, and more of the desired set of data retrieved. :D

tony draper
13th Nov 2014, 16:13
Is this 'Fridge Sized' a new physical constant? still baffled by the 'Olympic Swimming Pool Sized' one as yet as I int got a feckin clue how big a Olympic Swimming Pool is. :uhoh:

BOAC
13th Nov 2014, 16:24
without the corresponding recoil sending it shooting off into space. - I guess the effect of the recoil on mass of 100kg would be such that the relatively 'light' harpoon would have penetrated the surface before the lander went very far, and then presumably it could be 'winched down'. I wonder if the 'recoil' of the harpoons, if the lander was not 'level' (so they glanced off the surface), could have helped the 'bounce'?

G-CPTN
13th Nov 2014, 16:28
Is this 'Fridge Sized' a new physical constant?
still baffled by the 'Olympic Swimming Pool Sized'
'Double-decker buses' are between-sized.

beaufort1
13th Nov 2014, 16:58
It's easy with hindsight I know, but they should have used tried and tested technology and employed a device the Ancient Greek sponge divers utilised, and tied a bloody great rock onto a length of rope and pushed it out. :rolleyes:

VP959
13th Nov 2014, 17:35
My understanding is that the harpoon mechanism is recoil-less. It accelerates a larger mass at slow speed in the opposite direction to the mass of the harpoons being fired at relatively high speed, then gently slows the anti-recoil mass down, to effectively cancel out the reaction force. The primary way of countering this recoil was to be the thruster system, designed to hold the thing down whilst the harpoons fired. This works very much like doing a Lynx deck landing, where you apply negative collective to hold against the deck (one of the virtues of a rigid head) then fire the harpoon (often repeatedly) to lock into the grid and hold the A/C in place until it can be tied down.

flying lid
13th Nov 2014, 18:06
Send for Wallace & Gromit !!

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071225074935/wallaceandgromit/images/b/bf/Cooker.jpg

TURIN
13th Nov 2014, 21:24
Turin, may I guide you to books written by Eric Von Daniken.


No, you may not.

I prefer my fiction written by the masters.. A.E.Van Vogt, Asimov, Heinlein etc. ;)

OFSO
13th Nov 2014, 21:42
the masters.

You omitted the greatest master of science fiction of them all: Iain M Banks.

However. Please bear in mind that not only the shock absorbing/sprung qualities of the lander's legs, but also the harpoons and the securing screws, were based on pure guesswork as to what the surface was going to be. Dust, gravel-size particles, vacuum-frozen ice (hard as granite) - the securing system had to work - maybe - on whatever it found. Likewise the legs had to reduce the vertical speed to zero without bouncing the whole package back into Space. Well, whatever they hit wasn't what was expected or had been planned for. That itself was a "result".

And, SKY News, stop saying the "Mission will End" if they can't get the lander secured. Go off and read (if you can) the specs for the mission and what Rosetta will be doing for the next year, eh ?

OFSO
13th Nov 2014, 21:45
Why did the arrival of comets cease?

It didn't.

How come that similar deposits of water have not evolved on other planets (such as the Moon)?

They have.

A more interesting question is why do comets leave the Oort Cloud and come and visit us now and then ?

tony draper
13th Nov 2014, 21:57
Passing Stars?
My own theory is that Planetary accretion from the original cloud was much less energetic and slower than mooted now, no need for a red hot molten Earth during its birth pangs, the water was always here.
PS,Nor do I believe the Moon was a lump of Earth that just fell off because summat else(a passing Planet this time) dunched it,so one is a astronomical heretic on two counts.
:rolleyes:

tdracer
14th Nov 2014, 02:20
According to recent news reports, in its current position Rosetta won't get enough sunlight to it's solar panels and hasn't long to live unless it's put to sleep, with the hope that it can be brought back once it's better positioned to the sun.:mad: Too bad the European Greenies wouldn't allow a nuclear power source :ugh:
Coincidentally, last night I was watching a program on the origin of life on Earth, and all that lead up to in (going back to the big bang). I've often heard people say things along the line that 'anyone who knows science can't possibly believe in god'. Yet when I look at how we got here - the billions of years (our world is basically made up of second generation stars :eek:), how incredibly fragile the whole eco system is yet how life seems to find a way to exist wherever possible, and how incredibly improbable the whole scenario is that created the current universe - I start to wonder how it all could have happened purely by chance - without "something" to guide it.
It may not be 'God' - at least not a God as we think of it, but to state outright that there couldn't be any sort of guiding force that got us (and the rest of the universe) to where we are strikes me as being naïve.

Dushan
14th Nov 2014, 02:48
First they said it was the size of a dishwasher. then thy said it was the size of a washing machine.

What the hell are these people dong there? Washing dishes or clothes? Why? What exactly is the purpose of all this? To prove that we can? Big deal?

Mechta
14th Nov 2014, 08:57
Likewise the legs had to reduce the vertical speed to zero without bouncing the whole package back into Space. Well, whatever they hit wasn't what was expected or had been planned for. That itself was a "result".The Rosetta team have had 20+ years of 'Results'.

Come up with plausible method of reaching comet - Result
Come up with a design that can be built with then current, or achievable technology - Result
Get funding to build it - Big Result
Build it within budget (or budget + allowable stretch) - Result
Get the rocket off the launch platform without blowing up - Result
Separate from launch vehicle - Result
Get on track to to comet - Result
Rosetta reach comet - Result
Rosetta 'wakes up' - Result
Rosetta wakes up Philae - Result
Rosetta launches Philae - Result
Philae arrives on comet - Result
Philae sends back photos and data - Result

Just counting the number of bits of ten year old electronics around the house which have given up or the rechargeable batteries have died, it is pretty amazing that they even got Rosetta to wake up. Given that from the moment the engines fired on the launch vehicle, any maintenance or rectification has had to be done remotely, no wonder the Rosetta team are so ecstatic. I'm quite sure they passed their 'anything past here is a bonus' point ages ago. I take my hat off to all of them!:D

Sallyann1234
14th Nov 2014, 09:20
I totally agree with your philosophy tdracer .

Having a scientific and engineering education hasn't taught me to disbelieve in 'God', to use a convenient tag.
The more I learn about the universe, the less I can accept that it all happened by accident.

rh200
14th Nov 2014, 09:30
The Rosetta team have had 20+ years of 'Results'.

You got that right. The calculations of positioning and intercept by themselves is amazing. The fact they got it to land is mind boggoling. Remember Mars, we have been doing calculations on that for yonks and still manage to stuff it up, though we do seem to be getting better at it.

Though disappointing if it [email protected] itself, it was a an amazing engineering feat.

MagnusP
14th Nov 2014, 09:34
tdracer, Rosetta itself is just fine, and still producing good science. It's the Philae lander mission which isn't quite going to plan.

mikedreamer787
14th Nov 2014, 09:44
You're right Mr 200, but it was all done with
computer modelling, all the mod cons and
no real time constraint.

Not taking anything away from the modern
day engineers, but in the late 60s they put
men on the Moon - and brought 'em back -
with nothing but basic rudimentary puters,
chalkboards, slide rules and a good deal of
originality and creativity, in a never-before
attempted endeavor of our specie. But yep
luck did play a part.

I call that an ever bigger engineering feat IMO.

BabyBear
14th Nov 2014, 09:56
They sure did, mikedreamer, albeit with a somewhat different attitude to risk.:)

BB

OFSO
14th Nov 2014, 09:57
but in the late 60s they put
men on the Moon

No, the moon landings were faked. They actually sent the Apollo missions to Mars and changed the background to make it look like the moon.

MagnusP
14th Nov 2014, 09:59
There's a wonderful comedy sketch by Mitchell and Webb on the faked moon landings which I think, concludes that they were faked, but on the moon. :)

rh200
14th Nov 2014, 10:02
I call that an ever bigger engineering feat IMO.

Don't get me wrong, what they did during the sixties and early seventies was beyond belief. The success of the Apollo program would have to one of mankind's greatest tehnical acheivments considering the technology of the time.

tony draper
14th Nov 2014, 10:29
I still reckon the cleverest bit of modern space engineering trickery was lowering that rover onto the surface of Mars by the sky crane,even we space shedites thunk it too daring a piece of engineering jiggery pokery to many things to go wrong but by the lord harry they pulled it off.
:rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-ImKz5IKYY

TURIN
14th Nov 2014, 11:59
Having a scientific and engineering education hasn't taught me to disbelieve in 'God', to use a convenient tag.
The more I learn about the universe, the less I can accept that it all happened by accident.

Accident implies that something went wrong.

Random alterations to the universe following scientific principles (physics, chemistry etc) is my preferred mode.

The more I learn about the universe the more I conclude that it could not have been created by design. If it was, the designer(s) is a right numpty. :ok:

Back to the thread. Astounding as this feat is, the moon landings are the equal as far as technological endeavour are concerned. As has been said, how many ten year old bits of electronics have you got that still work? This thing was designed fifteen years ago!!

OFSO
14th Nov 2014, 13:23
considering the technology of the time.

I don't think anyone designing a manned moon lander today would let any human being near the controls.

MagnusP
14th Nov 2014, 13:31
OFSO, that's why the soviets sent Laika into space in 1957, to see whether she was up to the task of biting any human who went near the controls.

Lonewolf_50
14th Nov 2014, 13:32
A more interesting question is why do comets leave the Oort Cloud and come and visit us now and then ?
Most likely reason (http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/550526-younger-women-7.html#post8740606).

603DX
14th Nov 2014, 13:52
OFSO, that's why the soviets sent Laika into space in 1957, to see whether she was up to the task of biting any human who went near the controls.

That reminds me of two things of note. First, there was an enormous wave of emotion worldwide about the sad fate that Laika was destined to suffer. And second, the Oxford Examinations Board GCE 'A' Level Physics paper that year included questions requiring candidates to calculate the speed needed to put a satellite into Earth orbit, and also to achieve escape velocity. Exam boards were right up to date, back then ...

And yes, I did both questions (and passed) :8

tony draper
14th Nov 2014, 15:09
I believe it was a English Boys School famed later for its interest in Space exploration who calculated the orbit and plotted from whence Sputnick 1 had been launched beating both the British and American Governments to the punch?:)

OFSO
14th Nov 2014, 15:41
Just think: if aliens had found Laika they would have landed on Earth by now, having assumed the population was friendly and had waggy tails. Instead of rotton b---s who sent animals into space to die.

Flight_Idle
14th Nov 2014, 16:16
I'm curious about the orbital period of the Rosetta mother ship around the comet. I guess it must be pretty slow, otherwise it would fly off.


As far as I know, they haven't given the height of the orbit, or its period.


I wonder how one choses the optimum orbital height? If the comet is rotating, does one put the mother ship into geostationary orbit?


Yet again, if one is aiming for a 'Flat patch' to land on, this might dictate the orbit chosen.


A lot of interesting stuff seems to remain unexplained.

OFSO
14th Nov 2014, 16:26
Try esa.int for this information. I know I saw it somewhere.

Here it is - hardly an orbit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNBUep7mPdI

Loose rivets
14th Nov 2014, 16:43
It accelerates a larger mass at slow speed in the opposite direction to the mass of the harpoons being fired at relatively high speed, then gently slows the anti-recoil mass down, to effectively cancel out the reaction force.

And the NET acceleration is cancelled, how?

The primary way of countering this recoil was to be the thruster system, designed to hold the thing down whilst the harpoons fired.

I feel better about this one.



When I penned my novel it was just a story, yet so many posters on forums like this seem to puzzle over concepts so easily answered by what were just my fun hypotheses. Some notions were penned after forty years of trying to understand gravity and genetics and everything. Or sometimes after just a few minutes and a glass of wine.

The disturbing thing is, both have the same validity to a species denied the answers by perhaps, the sheer randomness of the Universe, or maybe by the wisdom of creators outside spacetime who deem it wise to leave us in the dark. We are truly blind, not to what is going on, but certainly to the reason it is going on.

Put me down for a creator . . . and a band of helpers. Imagine a fine new universe all ready to auto-unpack, and then something lets it loose too soon. For the first time there were to be perfect material beings in a beautiful material universe, but imagine what might happen if it unpacked with vicious self-fueling power just a little too early. Well, on one speck in this void we might find a species that is a far cry from perfect. Some kill, some even eat each other. Some destroy entire cities and the collective work of generations, while others care for their fellows and give thought to wondrous things like cathedrals, the design of which might be just wisps of memory from the original creative minds.

Cathedrals. Perhaps of any material thing to do with humans, they puzzle me the most. Built before man had the sense to standardize his measuring rods throughout the land, and yet having the mathematical beauty of structures that seem to display a genius that must be hidden in our deepest dreams.

wiggy
14th Nov 2014, 17:47
I believe it was a English Boys School famed later for its interest in Space exploration who calculated the orbit and plotted from whence Sputnick 1 had been launched beating both the British and American Governments to the punch?

I suspect you might be thinking of Kettering Boys Grammar School ..they had a satellite tracking group that became active after Sputnik 1 was launched and it was they who deduced, from their analysis of the orbit of Cosmos 129 in 1966, that the Russian's were using a new launch site (Plesetsk). The site had been used at least once before (Cosmos 112) so it's possible that in reality the Brit and US "spooks" were well aware of Plesetsk but were keeping quiet about it for reasons various...There's no doubt the Kettering Group got credit for making it all public ( I think via a letter to Flight International).

OFSO
14th Nov 2014, 18:07
Too bad the European Greenies wouldn't allow a nuclear power source

Thanks for posting that, tdracer. Shall we discuss the IQ of those greenies - world-wide, not just in Europe - who consider that in the unlikely event of a launch failure, the planet will be brought to the brink of disaster by a few grams of isotopes descending to the Earth's surface ? This isn't the first time that a mission has been put at risk by spacecraft designers forced by the Idiot Community to use solar energy instead of the logical and reliable alternative.

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

OFSO
15th Nov 2014, 06:27
Over 80% of the Science Objectives have been achieved. (ESOC, Darmstadt)

tdracer
16th Nov 2014, 06:25
OFSO, sadly it appears there is something worse than the Greenies - it seems that one of the most amazing scientific achievements of all times is less important than the shirt that was worn at the press conference.


One of Humankind's Greatest Achievements of the Decade overshadowed by Hawaiian Shirt - TechRaptor (http://techraptor.net/content/one-humankinds-greatest-achievements-decade-overshadowed-hawaiian-shirt)


Seriously, you really can't make this $hit up. :ugh:

OFSO
16th Nov 2014, 08:03
Yeah right, it seemingly "insulted womanhood". More offensive was the fact that he apologised for wearing it.

I could tell you a story about a Renault 4 merrily rocking on its suspension in the ESOC parking lot at 4 p.m. one Friday, and how of the two occupants frolicking therein it was the male who got his contract renewed the next year and the female who didn't, rampant discrimination, but there we go.....

Thomas coupling
16th Nov 2014, 08:36
Congrats to ESA, of course - for its professionalism and its success, BUT:

what is all the fuss about inside ESA (never mind from the press). All of this has already been done and much much more:

Hayabusa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayabusa)

The spacecraft landed on the asteroid and even returned home with a sample. Head and shoulders above what this mission tried to do.

What's all the commotion about - anybody? :rolleyes:

ONE GREEN AND HOPING
16th Nov 2014, 09:07
OFSO, re your 'insulted womanhood' insight above, not sure whether 'ESOC' refers to the Edinburgh Southern Orienteering club, the European Space Operations Centre, or the European Symposium on Organic Chemistry, however just imagine how tricky the situation would have been for the organisation's PC adjudicators if it had been two males or two females.......we live in complicated times.

OFSO
16th Nov 2014, 11:01
All of this has already been done

One might also mention the first very near fly-by of a comet in 1986 by GIOTTO. Close enough to damage the multicolour camera.

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu287/ROBIN_100/450px-Giotto_spacecraft_zps99462dca.jpg


How quickly we forget past missions!

I'd never heard of the Hayabusa mission, Mr Coupling. Although the value of bringing a sample back to earth versus sampling in situ is questionable. Who knows what the Space Object might have picked up on its travels ? Remember Quatermass I ?

G-CPTN
16th Nov 2014, 13:07
There was a scheme whereby a Douglas DC3/C47 fitted with a 'sling' could scoop up 'survivors' from the ground without having to land (or were they picked-up by a hook whilst sitting in the 'sling'?).

funfly
16th Nov 2014, 14:44
I just don't understand why anyone would want to land a washing machine on a comet :ugh:

dazdaz1
16th Nov 2014, 15:02
Probably just media spin.

OFSO
16th Nov 2014, 15:14
why anyone would want to land a washing machine on a comet

Neither do I. They were normally delivered by truck, early in the morning, usually several being unloaded at a time outside the front door.

OFSO
16th Nov 2014, 18:41
Flight Idle, as of 16th November:

Meanwhile, the Rosetta orbiter has been moving back into a 30 km orbit around the comet.

It will return to a 20 km orbit on 6 December and continue its mission to study the body in great detail as the comet becomes more active, en route to its closest encounter with the Sun on 13 August next year.

TURIN
16th Nov 2014, 19:01
why anyone would want to land a washing machine on a comet

Neither do I. They were normally delivered by truck, early in the morning, usually several being unloaded at a time outside the front door.
16th Nov 2014 16:02

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSerM8tjPrP8AXbez1g4bl1fU1nm7xHbJ-cpOk3CmzoTbH_cITu

Just to labour the point. :ok:

Krystal n chips
16th Nov 2014, 20:01
Lifted off the ground, the pig began to spin as it flew through the air at 125*mph (200*km/h). It arrived on board uninjured but in a disoriented state. Once it recovered, it attacked the crew.

That would seem to be a perfectly reasonable and justified action by the pig...given the circumstances.

Subsequently emulated by many business class pax over the years.....

Windy Militant
16th Nov 2014, 22:24
Just watched the Sky at Night special on the mission.
At the end they played the sound of the comets fluctuating magnetic field.
I was trying to remember what it reminded me of, then it came to me.
Anyone remember Bleep and Booster that used to be on Blue Peter years ago! :}

tony draper
16th Nov 2014, 22:56
Gone are the days when blokes just worked away quietly in their sheds inventing stuff like the light bulb wireless the jet engine radar the steam engine ect and if thing went awry nobody heard about it.
Now they shout and over hype everything before they have even fired up their soldering irons,so naturally when thing go wrong the media swoop down and pounce upon em,as they used to say if you sup wi the media carry a long ere spoon.
:rolleyes:

ChristiaanJ
17th Nov 2014, 00:14
Meanwhile, the Rosetta orbiter has been moving back into a 30 km orbit around the comet.
It will return to a 20 km orbit on 6 December and continue its mission to study the body in great detail as the comet becomes more active, en route to its closest encounter with the Sun on 13 August next year.
Can you explain why they moved it away now, and will be moving it "back into harms way" on Dec 6 ? Seems a waste of propellant....

Loose rivets
17th Nov 2014, 00:41
If the lander weighed one gram, (the program tonight) then how can one quickly set up a realistic orbit of Rosetta? It has to be possible, but how, when just shoved to a new distance, can the minute forces be stabilized in an economic time?



The bloke's shirt? It pales into insignificance when compared with his arms. Yellow tattoo ink? Whoda thunk it?


Thinks . . . perhaps he had a shirt with pictures of tattooed arms on it. Well, anything's possible you know.














.

jolihokistix
17th Nov 2014, 05:14
Let's keep the shirt thing in perspective.
Matt Taylor (http://www.funnyjunk.com/Matt+taylor/funny-pictures/5355333)

chuks
17th Nov 2014, 07:14
A Rosetta is German slang for an "anus," while the Darm is the gut. So the German news had this Rosetta being controlled by the German Space Patrol or some such thing in Darmstadt, which my daughter's boyfriend and his friends all found to be quite amusing. The shirt did not come into this.

MagnusP
17th Nov 2014, 09:12
if you sup wi the media carry a long rifle

Fixed it for you, Mr D.

OFSO
17th Nov 2014, 09:50
Can you explain why they moved it away now, and will be moving it "back into harms way" on Dec 6 ? Seems a waste of propellant....

"They" are the engineers and techies you see on TV (and not 'scientists' as SKY & BBC call them). The scientists who tell 'em what to do are having a think about the data they have so far, so have parked Risotto, sorry Rosetta, "out of harms way" - next science due in December. Bigger "orbit" less manoeuvres less fuel used.....

mad_jock
17th Nov 2014, 10:48
Dr Matt Taylor?s shirt made me cry, too ? with rage at his abusers - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/11234620/Dr-Matt-Taylors-shirt-made-me-cry-too-with-rage-at-his-abusers.html)

You know, I know its not trendy but I actually quite like Boris's statements.

H'mm Boris for PM and Clarkson as Foreign Officer ministers

OFSO
17th Nov 2014, 12:39
Boris for PM

Not likely ! Google Crystal Palace and Chinese developer ZhongRong.

And if I add that Lord Coe's management firm CSM is involved, that's just the icing on the cake.....

ChristiaanJ
18th Nov 2014, 09:11
Bigger "orbit" less manoeuvres less fuel used.....
OK, thanks! Makes sense to this engineer....

ricardian
14th Jun 2015, 11:53
Lander wakes up! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33126885#")

VP959
14th Jun 2015, 16:48
The German Space Patrol* is located near Oberpfaffenhofen, in Bavaria.

It's the European Space Patrol** in Darmstadt, Germany.

Don't think there's a difference ? Ask a Bavarian !


I was reminded that Germans do have a sense of humour when picking up a hire car at Stuttgart. I was asked if I was taking the car outside Germany. I replied "No, I'm just driving down to Oberndorf and then on to Wertach for the weekend". Hire car chap, with big grin: "So, you ARE going outside Germany, to Bavaria!".

rgbrock1
15th Jun 2015, 12:57
Having lived for equal amounts of time in the German states of Hesse and Bayern I can assure you that Bavarians certainly do consider themselves "different" than the rest of Germany. But you also have to put this into an historical context: Bayern for many, many years always had their own King who answered to no one but himself.

rgbrock1
15th Jun 2015, 13:09
A little-known fact is that ESA only secured extra funding from the Kingdom of Bavaria by declaring Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko to be the site of a Weisswürst und Radi kiosk (with blue and white bunting) after the fly-by of the sun.

There had better be some Weissbier there as well. Preferably Franziskaner. :ok:

rgbrock1
15th Jun 2015, 13:14
Is Robert Bosch Strasse not in Langen? :Or do you mean the one in Gruendau? :ok:

G-CPTN
20th Jul 2015, 16:52
Philae Comet lander falls silent - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33596274)

rgbrock1
20th Jul 2015, 17:01
Philae Comet lander falls silent - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33596274)

Hijacked by aliens, undoubtedly. :}:}