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sluggums
19th Jan 2014, 03:20
From today, Cat C Wider Eligibility tickets have become Special tickets. You can book 15 Special tickets in a year – January to December – for your friends, for yourself, and for any of your family members.

:ok:

Pequena_Inquieta
19th Jan 2014, 04:01
Wow.

Anyways, I'm still hoping for a big announcement of the possibility to get J tickets for cabin crew. Why is it that hard?!? Maybe it's part 2 of the announcement? :(

OnceBitten
19th Jan 2014, 04:09
That will be announced right after it's announced F/o's can travel in Business and Captains in First with their young kids. :rolleyes:

Pequena_Inquieta
19th Jan 2014, 04:45
Kids are kids and not allowed in premium cabins. Period. But I think as an employee I should be allowed to at least BUY discounted J tickets. I'm not asking for anything free.

Wizofoz
19th Jan 2014, 04:58
My kids are allowed in the J cabin, firm space, because I have four stripes on my shoulder.

FOs kids can't even be upgraded to J, because clearly, being the offspring of someone with three stripes, they aren't as well behaved :rolleyes:

(ETA- I know I have to spell this out for some here- the "Rolleyes" indicates SARCASM :rolleyes::rolleyes:)

170to5
19th Jan 2014, 05:32
It appears that the new ST fares aren't exactly the absolute best fares in the world...

three eighty
19th Jan 2014, 05:41
I did a test run on the fares. The new special tickets were more expensive than a regular ticket off emirates.com

pilotday
19th Jan 2014, 06:03
Wizofoz My kids are allowed in the J cabin, firm space, because I have four stripes on my shoulder.

FOs kids can't even be upgraded to J, because clearly, being the offspring of someone with three stripes, they aren't as well behaved

(ETA- I know I have to spell this out for some here- the "Rolleyes" indicates SARCASM )

There is always a hint of truth in sarcasm.

myekppa
19th Jan 2014, 06:06
We've potentially just 'lost' Cat C WE fares.

A fare online for a particular sector is 10% LESS than an equivalent 'Special' fare, not that the special fare was available anyway.

J class or Y, fares about the same.

No doubt there will be sectors where it will be a 'benefit', just nowhere that my friends/family would like to travel.

On the bright side, it's good yield management that could equate to a bumper profit share.:hmm:

gehenna
19th Jan 2014, 06:14
These 'Special' fares are just that for EK; vastly more expensive than can be found on the www.

Other fares have also gone up as of today, so thanks EK for asking us to hold back for applying for tickets until the announcement.

I await further good news ...........:}

BigGeordie
19th Jan 2014, 06:14
Ah, I recognize that last line as sarcasm. In both of the above posts.

givemewings
19th Jan 2014, 06:17
Hate to say I told you so but it was pretty likely this was just giving with one hand behind the back...

I agree it's a joke that CC cannot even buy a discounted J fare when staff of other companies can and do.... Getting to the point that staff "travel" is a useless perk coz you can never get on if you are from certain places....

sluggums
19th Jan 2014, 06:27
Have the Cat C WE prices risen as a result of this announcement?

gehenna
19th Jan 2014, 07:10
Maybe we should ask that they revoke this 'improvement' to staff travel, as all that appears to have happened is for basic fares to have increased - and as I said earlier, it's pretty poor that it was suggested we wait to apply for tickets until the announcement. Just more taken away.

airbusgirl66
19th Jan 2014, 09:05
So glad I waited to buy my ticket until they posted the big announcement...now I can pay 255 Dhs more for the exact same ticket. :* Please do us all a HUGE favor EK and rescind these wonderful new fares!

JAYTO
19th Jan 2014, 09:08
hahahahaha thanks very much

what a great opportunity to raise the prices of all tickets and cloak it in the fanfare of "expanded staff travel benefits"

Here is a piece of shit, with a nice red ribbon around it.

three eighty
19th Jan 2014, 09:27
Cat A up by 30% in some cases

pilotday
19th Jan 2014, 09:47
Is EK the only airline that charges its employees more than just taxes to fly standby?

thatwasclose
19th Jan 2014, 10:28
Nope. Lots do. Sadly it's the way it is. Really really pissed off though that they are charging us more on the other stuff. Before I send futile email, can we have some exact examples.

Sheikh Your Bootie
19th Jan 2014, 10:38
Have a wee look at Groupworld community section, some truly upset staff on there. EK management, what special Shisha are you smoking Habibis!

On a typical sector that I use every 2--3 months, fares have increased on a CAT A, by 20+%. I thinks its time to say stuff EK Standby fares and all the hassle that ensues and get a Full Fare other Airline, confirmed ticket, for less money!
As for the fares for friends and families, no thanks, ID 90 would have been better!

SyB :zzz:

Saltaire
19th Jan 2014, 10:58
That's what came up with... Roughly a 20% increase on Cat A fares. 2200 drm now in First for most ULR flights. "special fares" are certainly special. Try about 11,000 drm for adult business on a ULR flight. WOW.

My sisters kids want to come out for a visit later this year. The change from CAT C Wider E to "special" just cost us about 4000 drm extra for 3 kids.

A ULR adult "special" ticket in econ is now 3600 drm. Kids under 13 is 2500 drm. Not so special...

SimCity
19th Jan 2014, 11:15
This is about as cruel as you can get towards your hard working staff, who give 150% day in and day out, to keep the program chugging along. Sometimes, it isn't always about the money.

MR8
19th Jan 2014, 12:03
Not only did tickets get more expensive, what's more worrying is that on many sectors I checked, special tickets are available while CAT C firm (concessional) are not available. So it looks like friends have more priority on a firm ticket then staff and close family…
Of course I can book a special ticket for myself, but the Special tickets are about 500Dhs more expensive and I only have 15 of them per year.

It's obviously a great scheme for the single cabin crew that want to get their friends over, but for the 'loyal' EK long timers with family, it is a pathetic change.

PS: did you also notice that the cheap CAT99 firm tickets aren't available anymore??

EK380
19th Jan 2014, 12:09
DXB-CDG-DXB
CAT A SUBLOAD FIRST

+25% (dec 2013 compared to now) !!!!

OnceBitten
19th Jan 2014, 12:36
Price rise is due to Expo. :E

three eighty
19th Jan 2014, 13:26
It's obviously a great scheme for the single cabin crew that want to get their friends over

It is not. A check on the emirates.com website will reveal a regular ticket is in fact cheaper than the "Special fare"

These seats are hard
19th Jan 2014, 14:25
Ek is getting so Greedy!!!!
I bet our pay dosn't go up as much as the tickets has. You can hardly use staff travel these days anyway because everything is full or you cannot get enough days off in a row to go anywhere. Won't be long before they start charging for crew meals.

L1011
19th Jan 2014, 15:23
First DXB-Melbourne/Sydney used to be Dh 780.

Now Dh 920.

Keep Discovering.

Gulf News
19th Jan 2014, 17:03
The thing that I find so abhorrent about the announcement is that it was couched as an enhancement and increase in benefits. It is insulting at least that the senior management assume that the rank and file staff are so dim. Indeed there are many because that's what EK likes, unquestioning robots but everyone that I have spoken to is dismayed at the sheer condescending arrogance of the communication. I may be wrong but I think that the 9th floor may have pushed this one a bit too far and it will come back and bite.

no sponsor
19th Jan 2014, 17:27
Just select the gear down a few miles earlier...

BYMONEK
19th Jan 2014, 17:38
no sponsor

Ah yes, the gear early and no single engine taxi routine, works every time. :rolleyes:

I've got a better idea. Write your comments on the staff travel comment section (the bit where they ask you to tell them what you 'love' about the new launch) then follow up with a letter to that katrina bird from HR and copy JA in.

Mach_Krit
20th Jan 2014, 04:10
You can paint shit green...but it still stinks. Truely shocking. Like all of dubai, greed greed and more greed.

Epiphone
20th Jan 2014, 04:16
don't complain about it here, get on the group world website and leave a comment. If the company gets 100 replies they may not care..... if they get 10000 they may have another look at this new policy.

fatbus
20th Jan 2014, 04:24
This must be the part where the 42000 + EK family will be well looked after! Greed Greed and more Greed welcome to the ME. Don t even think of coming here.

harry the cod
20th Jan 2014, 06:48
I agree with the comments about posting on the EK website. Go to 'NEWS' link in menu bar at top of the home page, open the what's new in staff travel link then sit back with a coffee (make it a large one) and see how, in one foul swoop, the Company has managed to piss off 99% of it's workforce!

Feel free to add your thoughts, they're better placed there than here.

Harry

VLS with ice
20th Jan 2014, 06:59
Can't find it. Seems to be removed. How very odd....

donpizmeov
20th Jan 2014, 07:39
Its still there and going strong. On portal go travel, the on the first page you will see something saying trips has changed, there is a link saying read more. Take that and, well ....read more.


The Don

ManaAdaSystem
20th Jan 2014, 07:49
OMG!

920 dhs for a first class ticket DXB - Aussieland! You'll be ruined!:{

Lowest full fare round trip 1 adult in first: 27385 dhs, lowest one way 17500 dhs.
Lets be gentle and divide the round trip by two: 13692 dhs.

6.6 % of full fare is what you are paying. Hardly anything to get excited about.
Unless you are a cheap bxxxxxx.

falconeasydriver
20th Jan 2014, 07:52
BYMONEK, why bother? if you don't like it etc etc

I suspect many will merely follow no sponsor's idea....

I also suspect this will lead to increased costs in other areas that will offset any perceived short-term increase in revenue.
The mantra in customer service is a happy customer tells 2-3 people, a p1ssed off one tells 10-15, how many customers will continue to fall into the second category?
Happy, valued staff contribute more to the bottom line than exploited ones, just ask Michael O'Leary (in light of recent events).

Desertweasel
20th Jan 2014, 07:54
MR8 Not only did tickets get more expensive, what's more worrying is that on many sectors I checked, special tickets are available while CAT C firm (concessional) are not available. So it looks like friends have more priority on a firm ticket then staff and close family…
Of course I can book a special ticket for myself, but the Special tickets are about 500Dhs more expensive and I only have 15 of them per year

this is the big thing, don't mind paying for firm tickets as we are always on fixed schedules but now the only firms being made available are the so called "specials"
Not good :sad:

harry the cod
20th Jan 2014, 08:59
Mana

You're missing the point. Sure, what we pay for a First ticket is a fraction of the cost but I'd guess that only about 5-7% of EK employees could avail of that perk anyway.

There are several issues here. Firstly, Cat A subload fares have risen around 20-30%. I don't think actual full fares have risen that much so why the large increase. An extra 70 dirhams to Europe may not seem much but when you're a family of five and you add the return fare, that's suddenly an EXTRA 700 dirhams.

Secondly, the majority of EK staff are expats. It's obvious therefore how important staff travel is to most. You only have to read the comments on the staff travel website to realise that many accept a lower pay in compensation for rebated staff travel. Many relied on cat 99 and wider eligibility tickets for visiting families. This has been replaced by a supposedly improved system offering greater flexibility. The principle is great, the reality is less so. Why would you book these 'special' tickets knowing that a simple visit to Emirates.com will achieve cheaper results! Staff friends are being charged MORE than the public. Calling it absurd is an understatement.

Which leads me onto the final issue. Why send that announcement from HH to tell us what a wonderful job has been done by ST and it's a reward for our loyalty and commitment. Really? Either he's not aware that we've just had a reduction in benefits or he's treating the staff as ignorant fools. I doubt it's the latter so something's gone horribly wrong somewhere.

Staff travel is one of the easiest and cheapest ways to keep moral of an airlines workforce high. Screw that up and things will go rapidly down hill, guaranteed!

Harry

millerscourt
20th Jan 2014, 09:20
I am very concerned about the " morals " of EK Pilots. Wonder how they compare with others?

Emma Royds
20th Jan 2014, 09:38
When you consider that half of Kerala is in Dubai, it is a little suspicious that the following has happened:

BLR, CCJ, CMB & COK previously in Group 4 have been moved to Group 3, effective 19 January 2014.

Now, maybe I have missed something in the news but I don't recall the southern half of India being subject to a massive earthquake that has moved it closer to Dubai? Or perhaps it's just the head wobblers manipulating the system for their own gain - as they always do! :D

Saltaire
20th Jan 2014, 09:53
The quote is wrong for the Ozzie Cat A sub flights in First. They are now about 2300 drm return, previously about 1800.

The "special fares" have drastically increased the wider eligibility fares for extended family. It's now about 3500 drm return from OZ in ECON for an adult. Previous Wider E was much cheaper. Nothing special about it...

SOPS
20th Jan 2014, 09:59
You can buy a normal ECON return airfare from Oz for cheaper than that!

falconeasydriver
20th Jan 2014, 10:45
The cynic in me views it like this....

Hypothetically speaking of course.
It's bad news hidden amongst a supposed bunch of good news, a variation of the good old bait and switch.
The good news? a better user interface, special family and friends fares for all!
The real intent, removal of most WE and CAT99 fares along with a 20-30% increase for CAT A's.
The intended outcome, no more having to issue WE or CAT99 fares, increased revenue from CAT A's and of course more revenue from friends and family who use due diligence and book a fare via www or are careless and pay too much for the special fares.
The reality as I see it. Staff using fly zed etc etc and other carriers, disenchantment, poorer levels of customer service, damage to the brand and of course higher levels of turnover....which compounds the issue.
But that's merely a cynical view.

harry the cod
20th Jan 2014, 11:00
Miller/OnceBitten

Thank you. :ouch: I shall not bother editing, merely hang my head in shame. Hard to believe I got an A level in English. I Blame it on the emotion of it all! :O

Harry

Christmas Beetle
20th Jan 2014, 13:11
Thought I'd been here long enough to be immune to ek smoke screens and hype, but when I contacted my friends about the new "special" fares *cough* I became an instant laughing stock

Hadn't checked a full fare ticket in years. As it turns out, the special fares are in fact a rip off. Even more of a rip off when you factor in all the catches and conditions, in taking what is in effect a Cat C ticket

The smoke screen after a light breeze: eliminate Cat99, WE price gets doubled, Cat A up 20-30% & Cat C now even harder to get

This is a whole new level of patronisation

BANANASBANANAS
20th Jan 2014, 14:00
I just booked Cat C firm for myself and Mrs Bananas for mid Feb and the system accepted it.

gehenna
20th Jan 2014, 14:09
Yes, I too have just booked Cat C Firms for May - Bl***y expensive though!

DCS99
20th Jan 2014, 14:38
Avail the new cheaper flights to Kerala which has now moved to Zone 3.

Avail the seismic shifts that have occurred.
I guarantee a holiday to remember - and that's before you have cleared Customs.

Buford
20th Jan 2014, 16:23
I remember being told by someone in management that they were shocked by how much revenue Emirates makes from staff travel... and that was two or three years back. Looks like they've decided to really milk that cash cow.

BigGeordie
20th Jan 2014, 22:56
Milking a cash cow is one thing, strangling the goose that is laying the golden eggs is another.

BDiONU
21st Jan 2014, 02:33
Milking a cash cow is one thing, strangling the goose that is laying the golden eggs is another.You can skin a sheep once, you can fleece it many times.

Christmas Beetle
21st Jan 2014, 04:58
Just did a quick google search and found expedia.com

DXB-LHR 14 July 2014 RETURN 31 July 2014

Tickets were as low as 501.36USD = 1841.24AED

EK was around 1000USD admittedly, but you have to factor in:

Any Korean GR2 can report your friend for raising his voice and sponsors staff travel will come under review

Same conditions as Cat C with regard offload, dress code, etc

aussiefarmer
21st Jan 2014, 06:37
Been doing some tests with emirates.com and our new special tickets.

On average, special tickets (staff tickets) are 25% more expensive than emirates.com commercial fares.

How is this possible??? Check the announcement website on the group intranet, is full of comments regarding the issue.

TheDarkHorse
21st Jan 2014, 06:50
9th - Granted its an extra 1k AED roughly but what about the skywards mileage accrual that you will get, that fare will go down closer to the time - around 42 days before is the optimum time. If you book on EK now it will be more expensive than say 2 months before hand give or take
Lest we not forget that if you're on full fare you will get treated as such, being on "special" fare you'll still be considered STF so they'll treat you as so.
Last time I flew on an ID ticket I was treated like garbage in comparison so I'd pay the extra 1k AED all day long.

Sheikh Your Bootie
21st Jan 2014, 06:54
Fly Virgin Atlantic for 3000dhs on those dates, confirmed and they have a nice Frequent flyer programme, which I know you do get upgraded from.

SyB :zzz:

dubaigong
21st Jan 2014, 07:01
My way of dealing with it is to NEVER fly Emirates staff travel or full fare.
Usually the full fare economy with any european airline ( KLM , Air France , Austrian etc.. ) cost almost half of the full economy fare with Emirates and the staff travel is just a little bit cheaper ( around 400 to 500 Dhrs ) BUT with the full fare I am treated as a customer and I am sure to travel....
If everybody was doing the same , maybe things would change....

TheDarkHorse
21st Jan 2014, 07:12
DG - My last trip to Far east, took CX. Full fare with them for 2 in J was 12k AED. EK wanted 20k.
Next month, North America for 2 in J, EK want 48k AED, CX want 22. So why on earth would I pay "special" fares for J for 2 or even possibility of waiting at for a flight for 2 days when I have a confirmed seat, get miles, lounge access and get treated well and not like garbage by those because I'm traveling on a ticket as STF.

dubaigong
21st Jan 2014, 07:58
TheDarkHorse ,

I have the same experience as you , each time I look for a ticket , it's ALWAYS more expensive with Emirates so how comes their aircraft are full ?
Who are all these people crazy enough to pay more and sometimes a lot more than with any other airlines ???

Does that mean that the prices are just more expensive for US here stuck in the UAE and that prices would be less for people traveling from abroad ??

I really don't understand the success of this airline when I see the cost of the tickets , I really don't get it.

I must be really stupid , I guess...

TheDarkHorse
21st Jan 2014, 08:21
DG,
Ex DXB fare basis is higher than Ex wherever else. The same fare for example CMB-LHR instead of LHR-CMB is cheaper and likewise ex LHR is usually cheaper than ex DXB.
So yeah for those of us here in UAE, its more expensive.

How they fill these flights? There are a lot of people who travel because of the name I think, but also because they know that they can get away with s**t on board.
When you sell 500 Y class tickets but need to upgrade 50 people where is the money? I have no idea :ugh:
Either way - my travel goes to other airlines, CX going east, BA/LH going west. If I have to stop in FRA or LHR then so be it but I'd rather give them my money than EK.

I wouldn't call you stupid - I'd just say that you probably wouldn't raise fares to hugely inflated prices to public and you're own staff alike - even telling them to wait before booking fares so that you can get some extra money outa them.

givemewings
21st Jan 2014, 08:39
1. Don't worry, they ARE complaining to the higher ups
2. "Those who give a sh!t"???? Um... clearly they don't, hence this latest development
3. Real names are being used
4. By posting here it gives prospective employees tge real deal vs the PR machine shiny version
5. The page containing the negative comments mysteriously stopped working.

Hmmmmm.....:hmm:

TheDarkHorse
21st Jan 2014, 09:03
Banana - Clearly there are people here who do care judging by the varied amount of responses and lack of responses such as yours.
How do you know I haven't written?

I guess you're thrilled at the prospect of paying more for your tickets? Or do you even work for EK? I mean surely if you do then you can't be happy at these changes? If you are then wow you will be severely in a minority or perhaps one of those whom had their ticket prices reduced :E

myekppa
21st Jan 2014, 10:09
The comments are still there, including the odd one or two looking to impress...

Epiphone
21st Jan 2014, 10:09
there seems to be some other places that have moved closer to Dubai. Just 3 examples..... Venice, Zurich and Vienna have moved from group 5 to group 4 making them cheaper on the new system. Maybe some others too that I have not mentioned.
Unfortunately Australia has not drifted closer :(

Snake man
21st Jan 2014, 10:36
"Unfortunately Australia has not drifted closer.".....
A collective sigh of relief echoed throughout Dubai. Tears of joy seen in the eyes of millions.....

SM

TangoUniform
21st Jan 2014, 12:04
Now that's funny :ok:

Straight & Level
21st Jan 2014, 12:46
A collective sigh of relief echoed throughout Dubai. Tears of joy seen in the eyes of millions.....

Brilliant! :D

flaphandlemover
21st Jan 2014, 13:12
Thanks SM.... you made my day... still giggling:D:D:ok::ok::ok:

flareflyer
21st Jan 2014, 14:50
Sorry guys, i am limited i know...... but i cannot find the page in group world where employees complain about the new tickets......:ugh:

SubsonicMortal
21st Jan 2014, 16:13
Can't find it either...

gehenna
21st Jan 2014, 16:25
To access the complaints page, on the portal, select the 'Travel' tab at the top. On this travel page, there is an option that is entitled something like 'TRIPS is changing' ; select that, then scroll down the page to read the comments, and at the bottom, you are able to add your own thoughts.

Kamelchaser
21st Jan 2014, 22:09
Wow...what a reaction. Pages and pages of the stuff.

Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

As with some earlier posters, I can't understand why HH would put his name to an email launching this so called "reward for hard work".

It's a dressed up pig. Pure and simple.

I'm quite sure the top fella must be being misled by his management team. Surely?

We have had so many "rich rewards", and "staff will be looked after" promises..but it seems those comments only apply to the upper echelons whose job it is to find savings that inevitably come out of the back pockets of those at the coal face.

v1r8
21st Jan 2014, 23:01
I don't want to sound like a stupid American here, but what I don't get is why won't EK let it's own pilots fly stby for free if the seats are not taken? Or in the cockpit, "Jumpseat" if all seats are taken ? (extra pair of eyes for free)... This is a cost neutral measure and increases QOL tenfold. :ugh:

SOPS
21st Jan 2014, 23:17
Wow, there is a lot of unhappy campers..not that I blame them, what a slap in the face for us all.

Christmas Beetle
22nd Jan 2014, 04:57
I like the person on group world who said the 'Special' tickets should be renamed Cat125 asap, so people know what the tickets really are

There was also over 12,000 hits if you follow the link from your inbox/everything you need to know about special tickets, with the humourous title "fly everywhere with everyone". Also found under the news tab

jack schidt
22nd Jan 2014, 07:07
A number of years ago a daughter of a VSenior EK manager was refused the jumpseat by the flight deck. Ever since then the jump seat was lost to the FD.

ONLY THE CRAPIEST of destinations has any concessional tickets, what a mess this staff travel is. I have just been looking for the first time for some flights on other airlines due to these price rises as there are NOT any concessional tickets available on more popular routes. This is not a perk or a benefit, it is selling off empty seats to employees for more money than they were before. If you dont want to buy the seat for yourself, enjoy the genrosity of the company to charge you that higher fee to fill the empty/spare seats up with friends.......do they think we are all as mad as them.....SIGH!!

As an employee of well over a decade I am sad to say that I am finally being treated the way Emirates wants to treat its employees (without care or respect) and I have to buy tickets in Economy now due costs, thats what you get for a 30yr flying career!

gardenshed
22nd Jan 2014, 10:17
If this is their idea of EK looking after us, I can't wait to see how they will look after us come pay review/bonus time.
After all it's only a couple of months until the end of the financial year.

aussiefarmer
22nd Jan 2014, 10:35
Wow, the comments posted by the staff in the intranet make me feel that we are not the only ones that feel unhappy and totally demotivated in the company. 20k views and counting...

EK is committing the mistake of forgetting that employees should be the n1 asset for any company.

Accumulated inflation in Dubai in the last 2 years is around the 25%-30% range. How long are they going to remain impassive?

I think staff travel was one of the few things that people didn't complain about (til today). I hope management reconsiders.

Desert Dawg
22nd Jan 2014, 11:01
@gardenshed

Don't expect any bonus/profit share... That ship sailed a while ago....

Rim-job
22nd Jan 2014, 11:01
Just booked a CAT C Firm for the in-laws. Almost 1000 AED more per sector then it was when I book my parents on same itinerary.

Complete crap!!! :ugh:

gardenshed
22nd Jan 2014, 11:39
Desert Dawg,

Not only did it sail along time ago but sank as well.

fliion
22nd Jan 2014, 12:02
It's the dichotomy of, on the one hand publicly - "we are doing you a favor" while surreptitiously doing the opposite privately - that is most offensive.

My initial reaction was: the Company's complete underestimation of the intelligence of the staff to quickly checking myself and realizing...

...we are powerless...it's a dictatorship.

It's one thing for them not to care about anything else but the bottom line...but it's an entirely different proposition for them not to 'respect' our intelligence and treat us with contempt.

Another sad day.

f.

Dropp the Pilot
22nd Jan 2014, 12:31
Pardon the thread highjack but to get excited because staff tickets cost more obscures a much larger financial hit you have been taking for the last five years or so.

Trawl your previous rosters and find one that contains a week or so of vacation. If you compare your roster for that month to some of your colleagues who had no vacation at all you will likely find that you worked just as many hours as them and had no more time free from work than them. You did not get a vacation, you were merely graced with a compressed roster.

Eh voila, the company helped themselves to a week of work from you they were not entitled to. Direct cost to you of somewhere around 12,000 dirhams, depending on your grade.

Thanks for helping out.

170to5
22nd Jan 2014, 12:54
Dropp

True, but I will add that most of the unionised carriers I know of, including the one I used to work for...who are one of the most unionised in the world...do the same. There, part time CC did the same hours and just worked longer days when they were in work, and only when you got a full two weeks of leave did you not do 90+ hours...the same applied to pilots on part time. In fact, they had to be on less than 4/4 to actually lose hours.

It gets to me as well that companies skirt around the truth of 'leave' and 'part time', but this time, Emirates isn't the trail blazer!

They are pretty revolutionary with the whole ST thing. Everyone else would have just scrapped it outright!

Genii!

olster
22nd Jan 2014, 14:32
Essentially all expat staff are marooned in Dubai and need some method of taking leave / leisure travel. As they are a ' captive ' audience it is somewhat unscrupulous to exploit this predicament. Other non - expat airlines can offer discount travel as a ' perk ' but it is not the same as travel to your domicile . Morally dubious and particularly so when proclaimed as an improvement - an insult to intelligence.

airbusgirl66
22nd Jan 2014, 14:34
I'm currently looking over the old EK fare matrix versus the new one. How is it that several of the destinations have moved closer geographically? :confused: Does anyone care to elaborate on that? If the destination was in group 4 and moved to group 3 distance wise, then those are the only people who actually get to pay LESS for a ticket. Wish my home or popular choice of destinations was in the group that was moved back. AND why the huge jump in cost in first class from group 7 to group 8. I guess they figure the North Americans in group 8 deserve to pay more for their first class tickets (which most of the time, are the only seats remotely available on the flights). :=

gehenna
23rd Jan 2014, 06:35
Would be nice to know if this staff travel debacle has been brought up at one of the sim ground-school meetings with management, and their reaction. I am not due in there for some months, so maybe someone could bring this up, and post a reply?

thrustidle74
23rd Jan 2014, 08:45
Gehenna,

I had a wash up recently. ST was the top subject.
Fleet didn't comment.
HR lady was also disappointed as everybody else.
Her recommendation was to compare the prices with Expedia,kayak etc before making a firm booking on ST. :ugh:

gehenna
23rd Jan 2014, 09:10
Thanks Thrustidle74

Shows how much they do not care, and I suspect that nothing will be done. Just wait until EK start asking us to help them; they can go to H*ll.

Christmas Beetle
23rd Jan 2014, 09:44
Emirates has been on a downward spiral closing the gap with all the other Middle East carriers for some time now

After this Staff Travel announcement, surely Pilots looking to leave their country can not see Emirates as their first choice anymore

I am not sure about the cost of living in AD, Oman, Qatar or Turkey, but our real income has gone down at least 30% since the financial crisis

BANANASBANANAS
24th Jan 2014, 03:44
I joined EK just over a year ago and came with a 3 year plan (bond), 7 year plan (Prov Fund) and a 10 year plan (retirement). Three year plan is favourite at the moment.

Buckshot16
24th Jan 2014, 10:08
A poet amongst us - as posted on the Staff Travel site ;

From the 9th deck of this great ship, the leadership decides to covertly reduce the rations of the sailors onboard. The sailors take wind of this, and become angry. “We labor so hard, by day and night, to make this ship move swiftly through rough seas! The ship’s rations are plenty. The forepeak is filled with supplies! Why then do you reduce our keep? We need these rations to maintain our strength in order to move this great vessel through these perilous seas!” say the sailors in a desperate plea to their masters. The leaders look down below decks at their sweaty minions, and in disgust scream, “Keep rowing! Keep rowing!”

Oceanic
25th Jan 2014, 00:24
Has anyone e-mailed HH directly to protest this further deterioration in staff travel? I have calculated a 30% increase in Cat A ticket prices (to Oz.) As a frequent traveller/ family away it is a considerable amount.

FUSE PLUG
25th Jan 2014, 09:08
That's my real worry Xulu, and if I were you, I would stay as far from this airline as you can. The company is making BILLIONS of $ profit, and for the last 5 years or so have continued to reduced terms and conditions of those doing the brunt of the labor.

My question is this: if the company has been making record setting profits yet cutting staff compensation and benefits, what will they do WHEN (not if) they start to lose money? It is bound to happen. Even Rome fell. I want to be far from this place well before that happens.

The very thought makes my stomach turn.

Forget Keep Discovering...

Keep Rowing!

-FP

CaptainProp
25th Jan 2014, 10:33
I know I'm stating the obvious here but still, they do it because they can.

This should also be a reminder to those thinking that EK will have problems recruiting enough bodies with a pulse to fill those seats in the pointy end of the tube - EK have no concerns whatsoever that they will get enough "pilots" through the doors.... I guess too many South American, Indian and Italian (Alitalia) and RYR pilots looking for a job, or a better paid one, for this to become an issue for EK.

CP

Craggenmore
25th Jan 2014, 12:06
There was always a plan to introduce Friends to staff travel.

HH did not know that an increase to the Matrix had been implemented, hence the email from him to all of us with this supposed good news.

Now its a blame game at HQ central as HH seeks to find out who painted him in this light.

Last weeks emergency 'meeting' between Sir Tim and HH could be heard some way down the corridor.

777boyo
25th Jan 2014, 13:02
Crag,

Now its a blame game at HQ central as HH seeks to find out who painted him in this light.

Last weeks emergency 'meeting' between Sir Tim and HH could be heard some way down the corridor.

And you know this how exactly? My sources tell me Mr President was away last week....:ugh:

7B

flareflyer
25th Jan 2014, 13:03
Craggenmore,

And did you really believe it???.
Or you wre invited at the meeting as well????

Mach_Krit
25th Jan 2014, 21:47
Not sure if craggenmore is right..but i cant see HH putting his name under such utter crap.

Murrenfan
25th Jan 2014, 22:26
For your information brits, aussies and americans are by far the largest pilot group in Ek. Think twice before you post bullsh1t.
Mfan

thatwasclose
26th Jan 2014, 04:26
Excellent point ! I think, not including locals, it is Brit , American, Aussie , Canucks .

Christmas Beetle
26th Jan 2014, 06:03
We all knew that EK could wipe out staff travel with a phone call. There are some naive people here who think they won't take a nice short term contract towards the end of their career for fear of losing their retirement tickets (sometimes I weaken and think this way also)

Hopefully this latest effort puts any hope of retirement tickets to rest, so anything beyond a seven year plan is gambling

Find it hard to believe there are any cirisis meetings going on about this, given the disingenuous way the company approaches everything else. More like slaps on each other's backs, villainous laughs, and roars of 'we've done it again'. TC says "now I can afford to buy a Lordship or Baronry"

CaptainProp
26th Jan 2014, 10:15
or your information brits, aussies and americans are by far the largest pilot group in Ek.

Probably correct, and your point is? Did you wake up on the wrong side this morning?

If Brits/Aussies/Americans, and other nationalities for that matter, stopped coming here and started leaving the company due to eroding conditions then the company would sooner or later have to change the way they treat employees, right? So as long as the employees accept the current status then don't expect anything to change.

So what did I write that was such BS?

CP

thatwasclose
26th Jan 2014, 10:27
There was a suggestion in your post that the reason why the company can continue to erode our conditions is because people from India and south america etc are willing to replace us. The vast majority of the people who will replace us is in fact American, European Aussie etc. I think that's the way he read it, it was the way I read it too. Perhaps that's not what you meant . No big deal anyway

CaptainProp
26th Jan 2014, 13:11
There was a suggestion in your post that the reason why the company can continue to erode our conditions is because people from India and south america etc are willing to replace us.

That was exactly what I meant.

The vast majority of the people who will replace us is in fact American, European Aussie etc.

Not so sure. For pilots from EU/AUS and the US the package is slowly reaching levels where people will think hard and long before packing their bags. For many other pilots, from for example India and South America, the EK package still represents an increase in T&Cs when compared to their current ones.

As a result I believe we will see fewer EU/AUS/US pilots joining the ME circus over the coming years. Just my two cents.

CP

fliion
26th Jan 2014, 14:14
Let's call a spade a spade here:

This was a company wide pay cut for everyone. Perhaps for locals a lesser extent as they do not need travel to visit aging parents and attend sibling weddings.

But for everyone else, we have to travel. The ALT would be an excuse if they gave us our vacation in one chunk. They do not and now we pay the company more to avail of our vacation at home. And for those who say "Dubai is your home". At how many years am I eligible for citizenship?

Billions to the owners this year...a pay cut for the everyone else...delivered with a letter of celebration.

Below is the Co.'s core values per the website:

"A strong and stable leadership team, ambitious yet calculated decision-making and ground-breaking ideas all contribute to the creation of great companies. Of course, these have played a major part in our development, but we believe our business ethics are the foundation on which our success has been built. Caring for our employees and stakeholders, as well as the environment and the communities we serve, have played a huge part in our past and will continue to shape our future."

I like the first & last sentences the most...."Great companies"..."Caring for our employees"

...That's the spirit

f.

zolcano
26th Jan 2014, 14:24
its going to be revised soon not as much we want but as a token.

Gulf News
26th Jan 2014, 15:23
This was a company wide pay cut for everyone. Perhaps for locals a lesser extent as they do not need travel to visit aging parents and attend sibling weddings.

I flew with a local yesterday who didn't know anything about the changes and didn't really care. Might have to pay a few more dirhams for a weekend in Casablanca but for a 21 year old who drives a Porsche Cayenne turbo as a second car its pocket money.

The Guru
26th Jan 2014, 15:35
Craggs has a point. Whether of not there was a vocal meeting on the ninth floor is ultimately irrelevant, but we all know that HH does not like bad publicity nor having the company openly painted in such a bad light.

I don't think he or any of the hierarchy could not have predicted the open backlash and revolt that just keeps rolling in on the company website from the rank and file.

aussiefarmer
26th Jan 2014, 16:22
Fares have been amended today again. I believe they have come back to the old ones, but I have no data to compare.

Anyone can please share????

Both CAT A, CAT C, and Special fares have been reduced. Still awaiting for official confirmation.

Mrs Mangels
26th Jan 2014, 18:49
Somethings happened. The fares are changing as of the 27th, (down, but still a bit up) and the Special category has gone from the TRIPS "Flight Status" page.
Don't tell me the squeaky wheel finally saw a dab of grease!?!?!?!??!:eek::eek::eek:

donpizmeov
26th Jan 2014, 19:50
Good find Mrs M. On a quick look I noticed that Oz/US flights are still at the high rate. But India has dropped Aed 400 to Aed800ish from the Aed1260ish it was on the 19th for a Y class cat C.
They have dropped the special ticket bit off the seats available, and replaced it with Firm concessional seats available, which is good as I guess that means Cat C as well. As of the 19th Special tickets were offered on Oz/US flights where the cheaper Cat C were not.


the Don

fliion
26th Jan 2014, 21:48
Had a big turnout of crew tonight at dinner (no, not me ...the FO looks like Beckham)

Anyhoo, all had "Kevin's Blog" out on their smartphones (wtf is that says I?) it's the feedback blog on CC portal to CC leadership team and usually it's civilized ..,

...well gents I had a laugh, they all got pissed and started blogging away 'sans etiquette '..so Here am I chuckling
as they are punching and slagging away...and suddenly a response from K himself ..

It went Something like this:

"Dear CC , we are aware of the situation and will be arranging a meeting with upper mgt to pass on your concerns..."

Looking fwd to the email tomorrow from Fleet underscoring same concerns of pilot group to upper mgt and how they will express our concerns...anyone with a sac on the 3rd floor care to hit 'send'...or will 'Kev. do it for you?

Standing by...

f.

Kamelchaser
27th Jan 2014, 00:23
Fliion that's hilarious.

Was it the twelve rounds of Jagermeister and Red Bull that you and FO Beckham put on that encouraged the team to start giving Kev the stick?

As the visa ad once said...Priceless :ok::p:D

General Dogsbody
27th Jan 2014, 02:45
Not so sure the Fares have been revised, just checked against a 2010 Fare Matrix and Zone 5 still looks like 10/20/30ish% in Y/J/F:ugh:

Dirigible
27th Jan 2014, 04:05
No revisions to Cat A tickets. I've tried 3 different destinations and all up by 20%-30% over fares prior to staff travel 'special announcement'.:{

gehenna
27th Jan 2014, 04:51
Could someone give the log-in details required for "My ID Travel" on the Emirates private page, please?

Thanks

fliion
27th Jan 2014, 06:19
Kamel...was that you in the corner watching!!

; >

f.

airbusgirl66
27th Jan 2014, 08:45
Cat A fares remain UNCHANGED, which is unfortunately the only category we can afford. Thanks for nothing.... :*

Craggenmore
27th Jan 2014, 12:13
1629: They met somewhere in the middle after the feedback.

And you know this how exactly? My sources tell me Mr President was away last week....

I guess my sources get out the lift on a higher floor than yours 7B.

777boyo
27th Jan 2014, 12:36
Crag,

Unless you know someone on 10th, then I doubt it. And that's my last comment on the subject.

7B

Rich8a10
28th Jan 2014, 11:04
Check your inbox, some changes made....

Saltaire
28th Jan 2014, 12:41
Changes to the sub contingent which is nice to see, but the rest of us...:ouch:

This paragraph is very telling -"At times, market fares may be lower than Staff Travel due to short term promotional initiatives. Other airlines might offer lower fares but have a weaker product, smaller network and often charge for extras like baggage and food."

We are talking about STAFF TRAVEL, are we not?? What on earth does other airlines rates and product have to do with our STAFF travel? Silly me, I thought it was a cost neutral essential benefit as an expat and not another source of revenue.

Tight Seat
28th Jan 2014, 14:24
At least we know what the company thinks the inflation rate is. All they need to do is increase wages by the same rate as the CAT A cost increase and we'll all be happy :)

fliion
28th Jan 2014, 19:08
Funny isn't it.

The Co. wants us to save them money on CDAs, S/eng taxi, cruise mgt, discretion, APU use...and the reward:

0.5% increase in two years and 20% increase in Cat 'A's

What am I missing here ?

f.

Xulu
28th Jan 2014, 19:27
Fliion. At least we now know the reason for all those poor crew turn outs downroute.... Ugly FO's. :ok:

Rich8a10
29th Jan 2014, 04:51
I have to say , even when I am not 100% happy, the Special Ticket fares are very different now.

1,700usd instead on 9,000usd for a LAX-DXB-LAX on Buisiness Class or 780usd instead on 1,300usd in Economy its a good disscount from the full fare, at least my friends are not laughing in my face now.
Last week it was like triple of this

I agree regarding the increment on cat A.

whossorrynow
29th Jan 2014, 05:55
1,700usd instead on 9,000usd for a LAX-DXB-LAX on Buisiness Class or 780usd instead on 1,300usd in Economy its a good disscount from the full fare, at least my friends are not laughing in my face now.

Will we really be able to buy these tickets for our friends? Or will they be the same as the ID50s and SRC Firms that in reality can only be booked on flights that we would get on with Standby ID90 anyway. Even if these 'Firm' tickets can be bought the company has already reminded us about who will be bumped off first if the flight becomes overbooked. Expect frantic calls in the middle of the night from 'friends' stuck down route.

And if the tickets are really available I would sooner have a better chance of getting home on an ID90 knowing that the aircraft wasn't being filled up with dizzy GR2s wide social circle on firm bookings.

In fact this benefit is no benefit to the staff who just want to get themselves and their families home and back.

Oceanic
29th Jan 2014, 08:37
Cat A tickets remain up by 30%, the only tickets the majority of us use, Rentals up 50% in a year, Salary increase 0.5%. :ugh:

myekppa
29th Jan 2014, 09:54
Keep looking.

Praise Jebus
29th Jan 2014, 15:59
Oh I don't know about that, some flight deck crew actually have a few friends, strange but true...

Jet II
29th Jan 2014, 16:39
Even if these 'Firm' tickets can be bought the company has already reminded us about who will be bumped off first if the flight becomes overbooked. Expect frantic calls in the middle of the night from 'friends' stuck down route.


You can get bumped off with a full fare commercial ticket. The advantage of 'Firm' and 'Special' tickets is that (as with commercial tickets) you become the problem of the airline if you are offloaded.

theidler
29th Jan 2014, 17:11
Oh I don't know about that, some flight deck crew actually have a few friends, strange but true...

If my chances of using staff travel benefits have been knocked back by a revenue generating 'enhancement' disguised as a philanthropic gesture, and they have, then nobody is getting onboard using my staff number. Staff travel is already a victim of this airlines success, it should not be made harder for EK staff to get about the network but this policy will do just that.

Even TCAS had to bag a jump seat out of the UK recently, we can't do that.