Dreamliner rattled landing at Cairns

[garpal gumnut]

Rumour that a Jetstar 787 Dreamliner in Cairns has endured major cracks In windows and wings after a heavy landing. More to come.....

via twitter @StevePurvinas

[DaveReidUK]

Doesn't appear to have made any of the mainstream media.

[nitpicker330]

I know this is a new fangled composite airframe but a heavy landing cracking windows and wings????????? If it was that heavy it wouldn't have left the runway without a truck....:D

[A A Gruntpuddock]

Seems to be fit to fly

Jetstar 787 Dreamliner takeoff from Cairns - YouTube

[nitpicker330]

Nice video taken on the 14th NOV 2013 and not relevant to the current subject about the 787 parked in Cairns during JAN 2014.:ugh:

[ampclamp]

Rumour has it that it have a heavy landing but is now Ok. Insufficient staff or similar to start ops over the new year.

[Wally Mk2]

Easy fix those cracks, stop drill them, & ya good to go:ok:


Wmk2

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Anyone know the rego of the aircraft that was in Cns? Wondering when it flew in and how long before it flew again.


VKA is the one that has been flying to DPS
VKB has its first commercial flt tomorrow
VKD was delivered 10 Jan, not sure where it is.

[Ken Borough]

See here, and do yer own 'fishing'!! :mad::ugh::ugh::ugh:

http://www.thejetstarsource.com

[waren9]

pieces of the puzzle

from mgmt on the 10th

Dreamliner number three on its way

This weekend we welcome our third Boeing 787 Dreamliner into Australia. Our first 787 has been operating from Melbourne to Bali over the festive season, allowing thousands of Jetstar customers to experience this game-changing new aircraft.

Next week we will commence 787 services from Sydney to Bali with our second 787, which has been undergoing its AOC validation activities since arriving in Australia. Our third 787 will commence Phuket services at the start of February.

afaik it was the 2nd one that was up in cns. vkb. up there on ny eve, back to syd on the 13th.

VH-VKB ? 31-Dec-2013 ? YMML / MEL - YBCS / CNS ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHVKB/history/20131230/2030Z/YMML/YBCS)

vkd appears to be in cns
History ? VH-VKD ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHVKD/history)

[hotnhigh]

Lucky they have that hangar in Melbourne for all that non core maintenance work.
Heavy landings perhaps.
RAT infestations.
AS Bill says, "its all happening out there."

[Goat Whisperer]

Just fishing through the aforementioned http://thejetstarsource.com indicates that the same 787 has operated MEL-DPS everyday since 18 Dec. Not bad intro to service for a new and very different type.

[onetrack]

Who does Steve Purvinas work for? Air Asia?? :suspect: Besides, a few dabs of epoxy works wonders on this new-fangled composite stuff, don'cha know?? :suspect:

Would this be the same bloke, who was reportedly urging people to avoid making Christmas holiday bookings on Qantas?? :suspect:

[AnQrKa]

SP and his world view are part of the problem. Union thugery old style is alive and well and will be the end of QF in its present form.

Viva la old days huh!!!!!

[dragon man]

Rather than personal attacks on Steve wouldn't it be better to try and find out if the rumour about a hard landing on the 787 is fact or fiction.

[AnQrKa]

"Rather than personal attacks on Steve wouldn't it be better to try and find out if the rumour about a hard landing on the 787 is fact or fiction."

and

"via twitter @StevePurvinas"

Dont you mean wouldn't it be better if Steve found out the facts before tweeting it?

[Australopithecus]

Someone had better tell Southwest Air that they are doing it wrong.

You'd think that a guy who had been at Ansett, Qatar and Korean would have learned by now not to be a management stooge.

[Solomons Son]

Another empty Jetstar flight! Amazing Business!:D

[Capn Bloggs]

Don't those new-fangled plastic thingees land themselves? :uhoh:

[Boney]

. . . is still sitting there!

[onetrack]

Maybe some of the more negative speculators could just do everyone a favour, and read the local rag?? :rolleyes:

Jetstar Dreamliner parked at Cairns Airport for several weeks as it undergoes certification | Business News | Business and Finance News | | Cairns Post (http://www.cairnspost.com.au/business/jetstar-dreamliner-parked-at-cairns-airport-as-it-undergoes-certification/story-fnjpusdv-1226794622728)

[Boney]

You are probably 100% correct but doesn't Murdoch own The Cairns Post?

I would not believe a word said in any of his papers unless verified by another source.

Did they get this info from "phone tapping"?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Qantas has told me that there was no 787 heavy landing in Cairns. There is a slight chance it may be true.

[underfire]

I dont know the process, but why Cairns for certification/validation of a delivered ac?
Kinda out of the way up there.

[Logohu]

Kinda out of the way up there.

Exactly.....out of sight out of mind.

The last thing AJ and his cohorts will want is too many of those pesky journos from down south taking an interest in yet another parked jet :=

[spelling_nazi]

It's parked in cairns because jetstar didn't have their shiz in a pile and don't have the staff/paperwork organised to certify it.

[717tech]

I just can't see why a new (not first of type) has to spend so long being "certified". Same story with VKB... I thought that the paperwork would've been completed prior to the aircraft arriving here. Unless I'm missing something, other new aircraft don't seem to be parked long before thrown out onto the line?

[training wheels]

VKB was in Bali yesterday. This photo was taken at about 5pm local. Strange to see a widebody Jetstar aircraft at this time in Bali (unless there's been a change in their schedule).


http://imgur.com/T9YY3m8.jpg

[ponyboy13]

Probably just delayed.

[blueloo]

I heard heavy landing too from engineer up there. (Non JQ ENG)

Can it be that hard to find out? Wouldn't it be reportable to ATSB? Surely someone knows an engineer with jetstar who knows an engineer who knows an engineer who knows the Townsville refueller?

[Suck&Blow]

Like your work, blueloo!

[OneDotLow]

The rumour of a heavy landing is false. The certification process is taking a long time, but they need to check all the serial numbers etc and CASA take there time over these sorts of things.

There is talk however, of crew shortages, which is plausible.

Does anyone know how to fix a transponder in Bali though?? ;)

P.s. looks like someone worked it out, and it came back as JQ1038 last night.

[OneDotLow]

Blueloo said :

Can it be that hard to find out? Wouldn't it be reportable to ATSB?

Oddly enough, JQ pilots do not report to the ATSB or fill in ASIRs. It is all done internally via an "OSCAR" which the company then reviews and decides whether it is worth notifying the authorities over.

The standards for reporting are pretty flexible... I remember an A320 south of Cairns that had an IRS hiccup (similar to QF's A330 event according to the crew) and ended up descending around 1'000' uncommanded, about 3 years ago. Did the report ever see the light of day? Nope.

[FYSTI]

It is all done internally via an "OSCAR" which the company then reviews and decides whether it is worth notifying the authorities over.

“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.”
― Joseph Stalin (https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/138332.Joseph_Stalin)

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

95% of Qantas reports are scrapped before they get to CASA.


I've spoken about the 747 ex HAECO which had 4 engines bolted on incorrectly. Never reported via the mandatory SDR program even tough we have the form 500s which were submitted by the LAMEs.


When we raised it with CASA they covered for them by saying it was ok because Qantas called them about it.

[George Glass]

ASIR's are classified reportable or not reportable as defined Flight Admin. Manual. They are not"scrapped".:=

[Flowerpot Man]

OneDotLow is the only person in this thread who knows what's going on.

I don't know who started the heavy landing rumour but they must be laughing at how well it propagated, considering there is not a shred of truth to it.

[waren9]

it was a throwaway 1 liner post (#300) from the jetstar 787 thread

[CAR42ZE]

Who looks after the JQ 787s now? Is it the skeleton crew left at JHAS, or is it Korr? Either way - seems somewhat strange to have the aircraft in Cairns and the hangars (and most of the engineers?) in Melbourne...

[Capt Claret]

Mebee it's got a melted battery box & they're waiting on spares? :E

[captplaystation]

Oh dear. . . the dream/nightmare continues :ooh: (it seems) I fly for NAS (but on the 738 ) & we noticed on Monday on flightradar24 2 a/c subbed in (an A330 & a 777) that one hasn't made the press yet. . .but the intro to service sure ain't smooth thus far.



Just checked my "google alert" Fuel leak on Boeing 787 delays Norwegian Air flight | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/21/boeing787-norwegian-idUSL2N0KV1JK20140121)

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Again hearing that they have massive problems with VKB due to my unconfirmed rumour over the heavy landing. Has been sitting on deck for 3 days now in Mel with techo Engineers all over it trying to work out what to do.

[onetrack]

Well, unconfirmed rumours are just that, and they develop a life of their own and won't die until they're stabbed in the heart with a wooden stake.

With engineers all over a new aircraft - that has a number of known "bugs" - for 3 solid days - wouldn't you think this was just a case of making sure that all the areas of known bugs, are being double-checked?

[doug606]

I think jet* have had a lot of engineers on their 787's because they are assisting thai airways with training their engineers

[Mstr Caution]

One has to ask, why is it sitting around for 3 days?

Shouldn't it be out flying earning revenue.

Enough down time to allow training opportunities for other airlines.

How is the JQ 787 returning the cost of investment?

[blueloo]

Onetrack - you seem very quick to defend on every mention of this. Are you paid for such services?

I too, from a separate source only yesterday heard a QF snr manager express surprise at how this information had escaped the inner circle.

So maybe, just maybe there is some truth to this rumour. After all where there is smoke......


Better go back to check with that Townsville refueller.....

[rmm]

Peering into the hangar from the whiskey taxiway there was an engine change taking place on one of their 787's yesterday. Too far away to see a rego.

[onetrack]

Blueloo - Paid?? I wish! No, I just have a need to refute rumours that don't have anyone providing some independent proof that a certain event happened.
After all, the aviation industry is a pretty close-knit group, and surely someone - even the Townsville refueller, would have produced something by now, backing Steves rumoured hard landing.

We all know that management like to BS and lie and cover their arses when things don't go as planned - but the simple fact remains we have here, a brand new aircraft being certified and checked and double-checked to ensure it meets all the requirements of a vast bureaucracy - and the demands of a manufacturer and owner who are, no doubt, both still nervous about the Dreamliners less-than-smooth introduction.

I personally don't think JQ or Boeing would be putting someone with minimal skills into the LH seat of a new jet upon delivery - particularly one that has been plagued with niggling problems, and one that both companies are keen to talk up.

Personally, I'm looking forward to a flight in the latest offering from Boeing - and no, I'm not a journo, and not an aviation consultant - and I'll have to pay to place my bum in the seat of one, if I want to experience the Dreamliners supposedly superior comfort.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Appears to have last landed in Mel early morning on the 15th. 4 1/2 days seems to be a long time for a piece of machinery like this sitting around. We are aware it at least has massive TCAS issues with every component replaced and unable to fix. That may be the reason it is on the deck but the issues with a heavy landing are still circulating. It could almost kill the 787 if true so the security and secrecy over the matter would be a high priority.

[Jabawocky]

If one heavy landing did enough damage, how could they justify flying it to Melbourne?

Seems it would have needed a major repair in Cairns first.

If it had some major avionics issue, a day to find, two to source at best, it could be grounded for a week. It is not like a 737 fleet with lots of parts all round the globe just yet.

[chockchucker]

Rego of engine change aircraft is VH-VKA. Doesn't seem to be the most rapid engine change ever carried out either. A few hiccups perhaps?


Rego of aircraft parked on the fence at Tulla is VH-VKB. And its been there for a lot longer than three days. More like a couple of weeks now.


And yes, the paranoia and secrecy (from within Jetstar and Qantas Management) surrounding everything that is Jetstar Engineering, the QANTAS hangars at Tulla, and 787 problems is something to behold.

[waren9]

how long did it take casa to get the first vh- 777 into service?

surely the process is exactly the same?

[Going Boeing]

Very early to require an engine change - would be interesting to find out the reason for it. As VKA has been mainly doing flights to DPS, volcanic ash ingestion would put the spotlight on the operational decision makers at JQ.

[A Comfy Chair]

I'm not sure why everyone is getting so worked up about maintenance issues/heavy landings on the 787's just because they are sitting around. There may be some maintenance issues, but the aircraft simply aren't required.

Jetstar have 4 of these aircraft, and they are currently flying ONE service per day (MEL DPS MEL). (A once a week flight to HKT just announced will give another one something to do on one day of the week at least).

That leaves three aircraft per day to sit around and do absolutely nothing, other than be towed around airports trying to keep them out of the way.

They're not flying - not because they aren't serviceable, but simply because they have no flying to do.

[Jabawocky]

VKB

Looks like since it arrived it had a short stay in CNS then off to SYD before getting down to work.

It looks like a proving flight of some sort on the 19th, so maybe it is just a TCAS problem being sorted.

If it had a big hit on the pavement in CNS then it did a lot of sectors after that.

Am I missing something?

With one JQ flight ever I am not a fan nor a critic as such....but it seems like a jolly good rumour (read fanciful) so far. Or a bloody good cover-up!

[doug606]

Rumour is that it has a crack in it after a heavy landing and it has been flying with an atp. They don't know how to fix it yet either

[Lancair70]

From Jetstar source

06/02/2014
Jetstar Boeing 787-8 VH-VKB operated JQ37 Sydney – Denpasar today, however the return JQ38 was cancelled indicating a technical issue with the aircraft.

09/02/2014
Following the technical issue it encountered on 6th February, Jetstar Boeing 787-8 VH-VKB positioned Denpasar – Melbourne tonight as JQ7908.

As someone else noted VH-VKB flew Mel-Dps-Mel arriving back on the morning of 15/02/2014

19/02/2014
Jetstar Boeing 787-8 VH-VKB, which has been under maintenance at Melbourne since 15th February, undertook a three hour Melbourne – Melbourne test flight this afternoon as JQ7998.


Looks like it's spending a lot of time getting stuff fixed :}

[Capn Bloggs]

and it has been flying with an atp
What's an ATP?

[DirectAnywhere]

Authority to Proceed. Something that's not covered by an MEL can be dispatched under an EA (Engineering Authority) or ATP.

[717tech]

Can't remember exactly where I read this, but they were always planning to update the engines to a/the latest mod....

[CAR42ZE]

Rego of engine change aircraft is VH-VKA. Doesn't seem to be the most rapid engine change ever carried out either. A few hiccups perhaps?

Jeebus... The first ever 787 engine change in Australia, and people are moaning about the length of time it takes? Considering the guys would have done the initial course and PCT only - do you really expect them to rush it out the door if you mentioned there was a second aircraft on the fence anyway? Take your time, teach as many engineers as possible the little tips and tricks so that when the aircraft enter REAL service, a more efficient engine change can be accomplished.

Anyway, who is doing it, JHAS or Korr? If its JHAS then a delay would be expected. They probably backed the engine over a bollard or two...

[chockchucker]

.....and there in lies the problem with the current " cornflake packet" license type training these days.


All about quick and cheap training rather than thorough training that has the LAME ready to take on almost any task.

Engine changes are pretty routine for an experienced LAME mind you. 787 software issues not withstanding.


That said, wasn't it the argument of group CEO that new aircraft require less maintenance? And here we have two thirds of the fleet grounded already?


Good job QANTAS pays all the bills and provides a ready made hangar.

[Ollie Onion]

The heavy landing rumour sounds to me like total BS. Engineers and Pilots are not the most discrete bunch and everyone I have asked around the network have said that there has been NO heavy landing.

The downtime sounds more like engineering issues that are related to a new type being introduced. These are probably amplified by the fact that it is the 787 where Boing, CASA, Jetstar and Qantas are extra cautious about having any more 'issues' in the media.

As for Qantas paying the bills........... once again I would say 'prove it', I don't know whether they do or don't, just sick of people flinging around general statements like..... 'Amaaaazzzzziiiing Business' or 'Qantas pays all the bills'. On the face of it and according to the 'legally' filed accounts Jetstar makes loads of money and Qantas doesn't, if anyone has any proof that these accounts are 'doctored' in some way they should report it to the appropriate authorities.

[A Comfy Chair]

The problem is Ollie Onion that moving cash around the businesses is not illegal. Nor is the way they report QF International's performance individually, but group together the Jetstar enterprises to make them look like they're all making money, when all but one or two are losing it.

In normal circumstances all that matters is that he group is making money. However, the powers that be are using the fact that certain parts of the group are 'losing money' as a tool to do industrial damage and obtain preferential treatment from the government.

What they are doing is not illegal - they are allowed to move money around - it is simply immoral and misleading.

[FYSTI]

Ollie Onion go back and look at these posts #241 (http://www.pprune.org/8102552-post241.html) & #243 (http://www.pprune.org/8102819-post243.html) on Jetstar 787's (http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/515306-jetstar-787s-13.html) thread.

It is all perfectly legal to assign costs and revenue to whatever segment of the accounts you want.

Please download and read through AASB 115 (http://www.aasb.gov.au/admin/file/content105/c9/AASB114_07-04_COMPsep05.pdf). Its not hard to understand. Then think about what could be done as you are reading through it. Realise also the ASX accounts are a different set of accounts, a consolidated view, not the view of each internal entity. Notes in the account of each entity is where the real magic happens.

As yourself, does this AASB provide a mechanism that makes it possible to shuffle money around to create an impression that is desired? If so, without the accounts themselves there is no way to either verify or reject this process occurring. Qantas do not release the accounts of its Australian based entities.

However, there is leakage of information in other jurisdictions, and Jetconnect provided information that is publicly available. From that information, Senator Xenophon demonstrated that a completely separate and independent airline DID NOT PAY FOR ITS OWN FUEL, by Alan Joyce's own admission in the Senate inquiry.

What this IR strategy relies on is the ignorance of these facts by the workforce and the general public.You are seeing the "chapter 11ization" of Qantas as a ramrod to destroy industrial agreements.

[toolish]

FYSTI,

OO said prove it in regards to Jetstar and the best you can come up with is a Jet Connect reference. That kind of backs up the point OO is trying to make:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Jackneville]

toolish, you and I both know that without access to the actual accounts, the cross-subsidisation of Jet* is impossible to prove.

Qantas could release those figures , especially considering that there has been both political and media speculation about this,
but they choose not to.

Why do you think this is so ?

Here is an observation of mine, the larger the 'Qantas Group' has become, the worse the performance of Qantas the Airline (International).

Why do you think this is so , coincidence ?

[FYSTI]

Really? I have said consistently that it is not possible to prove either way without access to the books. No definitive statement can be made either way. It cannot be proven, nor equally, can it be falsified. So in effect, all statements (including mine) become "trust me".

The Jetconnect case, however, does demonstrate what has been done in the past, with a QF group company. Can you not concede that its possible in other group entities are utilizing the same methods?

Statements about the financial position of certain internal entities has been used to prosecute an industrial relations agenda, this is why there is such a focus on this accounting issue. That is why it keeps coming back up, because management keep using it as an argument to justify their course of action. It will die when management stop using it as IR tool.

I cannot prove my case, equally, you cannot falsify it either.

It is very easy to create a misleading impression of a situation when you only reveal part of the available information. Some may call it lying by omission. This is why there is discovery in legal proceedings, so all the information is available to both side to form their case. There has been no discovery thus far.

Two things are likely to occur in the following months:


Some form of government assistance to a private entity.
Massive industrial turmoil & possibly unilateral imposition of wholesale modification stripping T&C's to legal & valid industrial agreements by a private entity backed by the force of the state.

The basis of these two events? "Trust us" accounting. I contend this is an abuse of the system. In effect the government will possibly authorise the arbitrary direct transfer of wealth from the workforce to the private owners by state sanction, on the basis of "trust me".



Before this were to occur, open the books and let us all see. Then the case can be made either way. But simply to rely on public statements that have no jeopardy attached to them to justify such heinous & undemocratic actions?



Just a few months ago at the Qantas AGM (see #2471 (http://www.pprune.org/8326805-post2471.html)) both the Chairman & CEO reiterated that everything was on-track. What's changed?


The burden of proof is with those that want something, to make their case, and thus far not enough information has been released to justify what is likely to occur.

[bddbism]

Just a few months ago at the Qantas AGM (see #2471 (http://www.pprune.org/8326805-post2471.html)) both the Chairman & CEO reiterated that everything was on-track. What's changed?

Exactly. What's happened? Move column M to N.

[waren9]

the last few posters have confused this with the alans not happy thread

[blueloo]

Waren9

I know why, cause according to the Townsville refueller, Alan was flying the 787 - he did the heavy landing and broke the jet, and now Alan's not happy.

And he is even unhappier because Pprune found out. :rolleyes:

[howyoulikethat]

With all these broken 787's,might need some more hangar space!
Maybe hangar 142???espicially with another bunch coming soon.

[Keg]

Cross subsidisation doesn't have to be cash either. Sometimes it's as simple as (say) giving some amaaaaaazing people a newly refurbished hangar. Sometimes it's the inefficiencies that creep into your business because you can't access your tarmac area that was set aside for you as a result of giving up said hangar because amaaaaaaazing people you gave the hangar to keep leaving another aeroplane in said tarmac area.

This then causes a delay to that aircraft arriving on to its bay, delay to premium domestic services, etc.

There is no way of allocating those sorts of things on the balance sheet. That doesn't mean they don't happen and it is certainly a way that either Qantas 'subsidises' Jetstar or Jetstar drags on Qantas.

[scrubba]

so Steve says:

...We are aware it at least has massive TCAS issues with every component replaced and unable to fix. That may be the reason it is on the deck but the issues with a heavy landing are still circulating. It could almost kill the 787 if true so the security and secrecy over the matter would be a high priority.

If there was a heavy landing, it would be a skill/judgement issue for the drivers - certainly not rare, but not common either - and could happen on any aircraft on any given day. Certainly not likely to "almost kill the 787" as a type.

If there is a TCAS wiring fault, is it a loom design fault, a manufacturing fault or a one-off connection fault that is apparent statically or only when the airframe is dynamically loaded? Of those options, only the loom design fault would have any lasting impact on the reputation of the design. Given that there are quite a few 787s flying around at the moment, whatever it is seems unlikely to satisfy Steve's "almost kill the 787" throwaway line.

If we are that desperate to trash something, I think it is much better fun trashing management rather than aeroplanes or front line people :rolleyes:

[CaptCloudbuster]

If we are that desperate to trash something, I think it is much better fun trashing management rather than aeroplanes or front line people


Steve seems to be making a habit of that (http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/500004-defect-reports.html):=

[fruitloop]

FYSTI,
"chapter 11ization"
Please explain ???
Not a nice place to be !!!

[doug606]

vh-vkb is flying to bali now so all rumours are now off

[Flowerpot Man]

No rumours are off while some fail to understand that repeating words enough times does not make them true.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

If there was a heavy landing, it would be a skill/judgement issue for the drivers - certainly not rare, but not common either - and could happen on any aircraft on any given day. Certainly not likely to "almost kill the 787" as a type.

Have you even thought about this statement in the context of this thread?

Heavy landing a driver problem? - most likely a fair part of it.
Not rare - agree
Not common - agree
Could happen on any aircraft on any given day - agree

If cracks have occurred on one of the first 787 heavy landings that they can't work out how to fix (remember heavy landings are not that rare) I reckon it would be pretty bad news for that aircraft. The whole point being that aircraft should be designed to easily withstand a heavy landing. The last thing I was using as a throw away line.

[CAR42ZE]

If cracks have occurred on one of the first 787 heavy landings that they can't work out how to fix (remember heavy landings are not that rare) I reckon it would be pretty bad news for that aircraft. The whole point being that aircraft should be designed to easily withstand a heavy landing. The last thing I was using as a throw away line.

Wow... Are you serious, or just being a porkchop? "They" can't fix it? Who? I would bet bottom dollar if your little mythical heavy landing happened and somehow cracked the little plastic frame, Boeing engineers would be all over it in a rash... Just like the battery fires. Has anybody seen a heap of Boeing guys with their verniers out? Has JQ painted over all the markings?

I'm not too sure if you're trying to cast doubt on Jetstar pilots, Australian engineers, Boeing designers or just Jetstar in general (I'm sure others know the answer to that).

If you want to get yourself noted as being an expert in aircraft design, have a think about the Q400. I've never heard you say anything whenever somebody whacks yet another Q400 tail into the deck... Why don't you take that actual concern under your wing instead of trying to create a fallacy that the 787 appears to crack up at the sight of the nearest pothole on runway?

Surely your employer could afford to send yourself on a 787 type course and bring yourself into the 21st century?

[spelling_nazi]

Me "did the jetstar 787 do a hard landing here a while back?"

Cairns engineer "no it's all bull**** it was bogged down in regs"

[griffin one]

MODS

once a rumour has been confirmed true or false as per this one being false should this thread not be closed.

Basically no heavy landing no damage nothing to see here move along.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Hold fire. How has this been proved to be a just a rumour? An earlier poster said something about an ATP for the aircraft and yes there have been Boeing people crawling all over the said aircraft.


CAR42ZE your rubbish lines have nothing to do with what I said but I do like the way you are conveniently trying to change the subject.

[CamelSquadron]

I spoke to my second cousin's brother's wifes father who runs a coffee shop and he served a lady who had just finished walking her dog and she told him that she had walked past a couple fellows with American accents that were talking about some aircraft called a DeathStar Dreamliner that had a heavy landing in Queensland and, because the engines were bolted on incorrectly by some offshore sweat shop that also makes cheap T-Shirts, it caused some cracking of the aircraft.

So it must be true.

They were quite disappointed when I told them it had nothing to do with the filming of a new Star Wars movie.