First Canberra, now Hobart

[Wedcue]

You got to feel for anyone at Qantas Mainline right now.

Qantas changes to Hobart services get mixed reviews | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2014/01/14/qantas-changes-to-hobart-services-get-mixed-reviews/?wpmp_switcher=mobile)

First Canberra was lost to these 717's, now they are taking Hobart. What destination will they take next?

[Afterburner1]

This is old news. Cobham are also opening a Sydney base.

[AEROMEDIC]

I am flying to HKG at Easter and wondered why the leg from Hobart was Qantaslink using DHC-8-400 instead of a 737. The return leg is on a 717.
As I booked last July, this means that this plan was hatched prior to this and represents only part of Joyce's "grand strategy" now unfolding.

So, what's next?

[Angle of Attack]

Next will be Townsville, Mt Isa, Cairns, Alice Springs. Thats from a reliable source....Why? no Idea the 717 is vastly inferior to the Virgin Embraer, No fing idea this QF management, they are only looking at the maths.... Oh yeah the gnome is a maths graduate, enough said... QF is like a deer with no eyes..... No Idea...

[Jabawocky]

QF are not on my preferred list, but the B717 is a pretty useful weapon for some routes.

[wf747]

I thought the 717s already service Cairns and Alice?

[R.Cruizo]

Wow, those 717's I've seen operating in& out of Cairns & Alice over the last 7 years must have been my imagination ! Not to mention the raging success of the Virgin E170 .

[Blitzkrieger]

I don't normally disagree with Ben, but then again, he doesn't normally get his facts so out of whack either.

I just hope he is man enough to make a retraction when he is proven to be wrong.

[Angle of Attack]

Of course the Valujets/ I mean Cobham jets have been operating out of Alice and Cairns, im just saying a total takeover will soon happen, but with a ****ty old fleet of 717's something has to give. There aint many more 717's around so a new type is about to be announced, and it will be given to the lowest bidder, Cobhams expansion will be a butterfly shadowing their demise. Sad but true...

[Oldmate]

Does this have anything to do with 'operational spare' aircraft, and a very old rumour?

[RENURPP]

the 717 is vastly inferior to the Virgin Embraer

really, lets hear how you came up with that one.

[cloudsurfng]

good to see even the pollies and the media are finally kicking off about the use of contract workers too.

“No wonder Qantas is in trouble financially. It’s effectively abandoning destinations, axing staff and patching it up with subcontractors,’’ he said.
“When people fly Qantas they expect just that, not a succession of subcontractors.’’

"QantasLink is a regional airline, operating small aircraft with sub-contractors; they are not even Qantas employees," he said. "Where else in Australia are they going to pull out Qantas aircraft and replace them with QantasLink run by contractors?"

MP Andrew Wilkie

Wasn't there some kind of a 'Qantas flight, Qantas pilot' thingy going on a few years ago??

Hobart can be a challenging airport at times....more "wrinkled" 717's on the way!!:eek::eek:




I can't see why Ben needs to print a retraction, having used Cutejet on numerous occasions in WA, I can't believe Q put their brand on such a crappy operation.

[Boe787]

Wedcue,

This is not the first time that 717s have operated to Hobart under the Qantas Link Banner, they did so some time back after Qantas bought Impulse and their 717s, and they were rebranded as Qantas Link.
I think most of those 717s are now flown by Cobham in the West?

[Capt Claret]

I think most of those 717s are now flown by Cobham in the West?

And the East, through The Centre, and Up North.


BNE CNS GLT ROK MKY
ASP AYQ
DRW GOV

[travelator]

NJS/Cobham have been flying jets on all of these routes in some form or another for nearly 25 years. Before QANTAS domestic existed, before sunstate/eastern were bought by QANTAS. This is not new.

[RENURPP]

NJS/Cobham have been flying jets on all of these routes in some form or another for nearly 25 years. Before QANTAS domestic existed, before sunstate/eastern were bought by QANTAS. This is not new.
Don't spoil the story with facts.

I would be interested to hear how long the majority of these people complaining have been employed in the QF group, if they are there at all,
and secondly if QF purchased the QFlink side of Cobham (they could not afford the complete company) would the problem automatically be resolved and the pilots miraculously become of the same ability as the rest of the group?

[Rabbitwear]

Simple plan really, Organise QF link with the 717s on new routes as they build in numbers the 737s at mainline become surplus looking for a new home at QF link , isn't that how the 717s came about in the beginning.

[SPATFA]

What?

Stop it RENURP and TRAVELATOR. Do you mean that NJS/Cobham have been doing those routes or similar for Qantas for over 20years? Do you mean that they were doing those routes before Qantas domestic existed?

So by my calculations the NJS/ Cobham pilots should be angry at the Qantas Domestic guys for displacing them!

But I should stop because the truth is getting in the way of a good story, cause this is a rumour network not a truth network.

Wait until the Qantas pilots, politicians and Sandilands realise that Cobham is also Surveillance Australia. Personally QLink dash pilots should complain that Cobham is also taking away their surveillance work.

[Afterburner1]

Cloudsurfing,

You are absolutely correct, one heavy landing 6 years ago definitely means that more are on the way when cobham starts flying into Hobart, because everybody knows that only mainline are good enough to land there....:ugh:

And if your past experience flying on a "cute jet" were so "crappy" would you care to share what made it that way?

[Fuel-Off]

Sunstate (along with Sunstate Mildura which eventuated into Southern) was bought by Australian in '90 and Eastern in '91. Qantas inherited the two when the 'merger' happened in '93. Air Link was operating the 146 around the same time for Australian.

When the merger happened, SSA/EAA guys were actually given seniority numbers with mainline - then the upper crust of the piloting echelon (long haul drivers) removed those numbers saying they didn't want the 'talent to be tainted'. :yuk:

AN had guys progressing from F-27s to 737s and onwards, apparently QF wasn't interested in the same kind of thinking. :rolleyes: Can't see why not? Start on the Dash, progress through the jets...retire where you want to be (even back on the Dash for the lifestyle!). :D

Imagine the industry today if we had that one list (and maybe one union) - the collective voice would be deafening and we would (at least I think we would probably have) more play in the decisions of the company.

Now we have been divided and conquered. We have been reduced to smearing eachother's professionalism and for what and to what end?

Alas, the longer term common good gives way to ego in the present yet again (some pilots should become politicians with that sort of thinking). So now I propose a slight hijacking of the thread and suggest to all those drivers out there, what now? It's going to be a brave new world in the coming month when the hatchet strikes a final blow on the international arm. Do we want/see some consolidation of the pilot ranks?

Food for thought...

Fuel-Off :ok:

[Cross Check]

Didn't QF inherit the 717s from Impulse? Didn't think it was a conscious decision to acquire them. When Impulse got them the EMB135/145 were the rage of the day and C605s, etc for RJs. Since they're a MD product I'd suspect they got a good deal on them since MD was one foot in the grave in those days.

Even so they could have sold the silly things but since I'm not a math grad or a bean counter who knows what Mngt was thinking other than 'too expensive'.

[Wunwing]

Qantas has leased/returned and released a number of 717 over the years so the current "flock" will consist of aircraft from a number of sources apart from the original 5? Impulse.By the time Qantas /Impulse received the aircraft they were from Boeing, not MD hence the B717 model number.The story at the time was that Impulse got a very good deal. Impulse then poached a number of key CASA staff which helped them set up quickly and also caused delays to Virgins setup as CASA had to recruit first before they could audit Virgin. Impulse had all the marks of a genuine startup so its an interesting question as to if GM genuinely wanted to run an airline or if he intended to sell it on from the beginning?

I also flew on a 717 Hobart Sydney in 2002 and it was branded Qantas, not Qantaslink and it was days old at the time.Previously the route was operated by NJ with a Bae 146.

Fuel Off, I was at AIPA central as an Exec during the period that you refer too. My memory of the day do not reflect what you say and nowhere would there have been a statement about tainting talent on my watch.My memory of the events are very different to your version. Where you at those negotiations or did you only get the TS version? I seem to remember 3 Associations, AIPA,AFAP and the APA?

Wunwing

[Blitzkrieger]

Well said Fuel-Off.

Remember guys, play nice. QF is the enemy, not each other.

Don't forget, there are plenty of guys who started off with NJS years ago and "inherited" the QF contract. Maybe they should have quit when the QF contract came along. And as for the new guys, I am sure if QF actually hired someone in the last umpteen years, they would be working there instead.

Also, do any 717 knockers here care to make specific comparisons to other 115-125 seat short haul airliners? Keen to know where she falls short compared to an equivalent.

[cloudsurfng]

Cloudsurfing,

You are absolutely correct, one heavy landing 6 years ago definitely means that more are on the way when cobham starts flying into Hobart, because everybody knows that only mainline are good enough to land there....

And if your past experience flying on a "cute jet" were so "crappy" would you care to share what made it that way?


Well the 'wrinkle' comment was supposed to be tongue in cheek....I guess as a gen x I haven't quite got the hang of emoti-thingies.

Sure, no worries....

Crap seats, crew that couldn't give a s@$t about the pax, broken tray tables, constantly late departures, and calling themselves 'qantaslink' with a little 'operated by cobham' on the boarding pass!

[Blitzkrieger]

Interesting cloudsurfer. Not really a comparison between anything. Never mind.

You seem to be a fairly astute fellow, do you care to share with us how you would manage the cobham "problem"? Would you prefer your organisation take all the flying back?

Have you conveyed your concerns to QF management? You know AJ probably doesn't pprune don't you? Any way, good luck to you :)

[R.Cruizo]

The Boarding pass is issued by Qf check in. You can blame them for that . Not Cobham. As for the other complaints I have experienced all of the above on other Aussie domestic carriers and some international legacy carriers too.


Yet another Cobham/ QFlink/ 717 thread plummets down to a primary school standard whinging match.

[RENURPP]

Crap seats, crew that couldn't give a s@$t about the pax, broken tray tables, constantly late departures, and calling themselves 'qantaslink' with a little 'operated by cobham' on the boarding pass!
You are a misinformed idiot i'm afraid. I suspected so before your last post, now I am sure.

[empire4]

same crap different thread. Qantas staff whinging they are getting shafted by the system that they have helped to create. Don't hate the player, hate the game. You all don't care if you are taking anyones jobs. Didn't see anyone helping out the ansett guys. Boo too to you.

As for the 717, excellent aircraft that can be applied to many routes in Aus and will fit a good hole between the Dash 8 & NG.

Cobham 717 Captain pay $160K, QF 737 Captain pay $230K
Cobham 717 CSM pay $70K, QF 737 CSM pay $110K
Cobham 717 Engineer $105K, QF 737 Engineer $130+

enough said.

[hiwaytohell]

Also, do any 717 knockers here care to make specific comparisons to other 115-125 seat short haul airliners?

Well I am not a 717 knocker, and even if there are a few in the Cobham fleet that may need some cosmetic attention in the cabin, the 717 stacks up pretty well.

On an hourly basis they would be pretty close to an F100, but has 14 or 15 more seats.

On a CASK comparison the 717 also stacks up pretty well. The 717 would be about 10% more expensive than an ERJ 190, but 12% less than an F100.

I can't comment on runway performance, but would guess the F100 and ERJ would be better.

[blow.n.gasket]

Cobham 717 Captain pay $160K, QF 737 Captain pay $230K


So let me get this straight,
A Cobham 717 in the new config 12 business, 98 economy, total 110 pax
vs
A Qantas 737-800 12 business, 156 economy, total 168 pax.
As opposed to the flight crew on Cobham where a skipper earns $160k
vs
at Qantas where a Skipper earns $230K.
If my math is correct that's about a 4% advantage to the Qantas skipper per seat is it not??



Probably less with the massive surplus in Short Haul now, and the corresponding lack of hours, putting some doubt on the $230k assertion!


We'll be ROONED said Hanrahan (or insert the name of another Irish spanner as appropriate!)

[TwoFiftyBelowTen]

I reckon the MD-95 (for that is what the B717 is) is great, as long as I'm not in one of those 1 in 5 "middle" seats. Then again, no middle seats is the Embraer.

[cloudsurfng]

Interesting cloudsurfer. Not really a comparison between anything. Never mind.

You seem to be a fairly astute fellow, do you care to share with us how you would manage the cobham "problem"? Would you prefer your organisation take all the flying back?

Have you conveyed your concerns to QF management? You know AJ probably doesn't pprune don't you? Any way, good luck to you

I wasn't asked for a comparison. I was asked for my experience travelling on the 717. As a Full Fare pax too, by the way. I can compare it with the Ejet if you like. The Ejet, again, as a full fare pax, was much better. Friendlier staff, on time departures and a nice new interior.
Now, am I naive enough to believe that EVERY Ejet service is as good as the ones I had, or that EVERY 717 service is as bad as the multiple experiences Ive had? Of course not. But...FROM MY EXPERIENCES, the 717 operation was rubbish.

The 'Cobham problem' you say? You consider yourself a problem? Im sure you're expecting a typical jaded 'eff you all, give us our flying back'. I hate to disappoint, but not so.

Imagine a world where you were employed by Qlink. You do their flying, so why not? Imagine world where the current Qlink pilots had the opportunity to move to a jet. Or a world where a Cobham FO could have a crack at a dash command. Imagine having full QF staff travel benefits. A seniority list arrangement somewhat like the good parts of the A/Q merger. Imagine a world where the flying wasn't farmed out to the lowest possible bidder, where the company can't keep going back and forth from pilot group to pilot group saying 'but they'll do it for less". (Isn't that how the 717 arrangement started initially??)

I can stick to the hating profile if you like, but the above would be my 'solution' in an ideal world...

You are a misinformed idiot i'm afraid. I suspected so before your lats post, now I am sure.

Renurpp,

Thank you, I must remember to make sure my comments suit you, or else I will continue to incur the wrath of your character assessments.

I am pleased to see that you believe any passenger who has a bad experience on your 717 is a misinformed idiot. I don't see many QF/VA/JQ/TT crew jumping on here defending their airline with vigour when a passenger makes a complaint about a bad experience. In fact, most of the time, they would probably agree!

So next time I get on any aeroplane and something doesn't work, or the staff are rude to not just me, but everyone within earshot (and therefore I assume everyone on the aircraft), I must remember the valuable piece of advice that I got from you. 'Nope, this tray table aint broken....I must be a misinformed idiot.'
"Nope, im not late, it must be my watch. Nope, it can't be my watch...Im just a misinformed idiot"

But please....continue...:ok:

[TwoFiftyBelowTen]

Don't start me with QF staff travel benefits. My step-son swans around in business class because his (just recent) girlfriend's mother works in QF catering! Pu-leeeeeeeeeesssse?

[Afterburner1]

Cloudsurfer,

Just to fill you in on my last trip on QF mainline business class (and no this wasn't staff travel or duty travel), we departed 15 minutes late due to a U/S APU, my tray table was also broken, I then had a F/A drop the pot off coffee
In the aisle which went all over my suit pants and didn't even receive an apology of any sort, my partner who requires a gluten free meal
Didn't receive it because the caterers hadn't loaded it and low and behold once we arrived at our destination the APU wouldn't start again so we sat at the bay for 10 minutes while they came up with plan B..... So please, continue with your stories of why qantas is so great, can do no wrong, whilst every body else is inferior....

[cloudsurfng]

Cloudsurfer,

Just to fill you in on my last trip on QF mainline business class (and no this wasn't staff travel or duty travel), we departed 15 minutes late due to a U/S APU, my tray table was also broken, I then had a F/A drop the pot off coffee
In the aisle which went all over my suit pants and didn't even receive an apology of any sort, my partner who requires a gluten free meal
Didn't receive it because the caterers hadn't loaded it and low and behold once we arrived at our destination the APU wouldn't start again so we sat at the bay for 10 minutes while they came up with plan B..... So please, continue with your stories of why qantas is so great, can do no wrong, whilst every body else is inferior....

Bloody Hell mate...Can you read??? Where are these stories you talk of?
Thanks for the story...as I said...we agree!! That sh&t happens to our full fare/platinum etc pax too often and needs to stop! YOU asked me for my experience, I told you!!

Twofifty...so unless Im mistaken, your step sons recent girlfriends mum has already listed him as her Group A? How else would he get staff travel? Must be serious then.....:oh:

[Tankengine]

Fuel-off,
Nice story, however how do you explain the ex dash guys now Captains in mainline.:confused:
It was not that simple, "some" Eastern and Southern pilots thought they should have datal seniority in mainline.:hmm:
Wasn't going to happen, didn't, time to move on.:ugh:

[Fuel-Off]

Tankengine,

I'm not clinging on to nostalgia. All I'm trying to do is conjure discussion about how to improve our current situation by learning from the past. Rose coloured glasses maybe, but I'd like to think there could be some common good out there.
And yes, those Eastern blokes kinda needed a dose of reality while insisting on datal seniority. Clearly by your response...(defeatist) that any improvement will be blown out of the water, not by management, but by pilots themselves.

We are indeed our own worst enemy.

Back in my box...

Fuel-Off :ok:

[Ken Borough]

My step-son swans around in business class because his (just recent) girlfriend's mother works in QF catering! Pu-leeeeeeeeeesssse?

How does that happen? Are you winding us up?

[RENURPP]

Well the 'wrinkle' comment was supposed to be tongue in cheek....I guess as a gen x I haven't quite got the hang of emoti-thingies.

Sure, no worries....

Crap seats, crew that couldn't give a s@$t about the pax, broken tray tables, constantly late departures, and calling themselves 'qantaslink' with a little 'operated by cobham' on the boarding pass!

Qantas own/lease the aircraft, therefore the interior is theirs. Cobham can't do much about "crap seats".
Tray tables are a problem. Poor design I suggest. I write up tray tables fairly regularly. What do you suggest Cobham do? I know what Qantas could do if they chose to. Have you travelled in a QLink dash 8 recently. Now they certainly need some attention within.
Regarding crew that couldn't give a s@$t about the pax. I flew mainline with my young daughter over the weekend and the service in business was atrocious. I wasn't on staff travel therefore as far as the CC were aware I was a fare paying passenger. The point being there are good and bad customer service people in all the branches of QF. qantas send people on various flights to monitor the performance of the cabin crew, I suggest they are more than happy with what they see. If you were really dissatisfied with the service you received, I expect you submitted a report?
Constantly late departures. I suggest you look at the on time record for all parts of the Qantas group and Airlink will surprise you with its performance. Having said that aircraft are delayed for several reasons, maintenance, catering ATC, weather, crew and the list goes on. Most of these are outside of the control of Cobham, i.e. the pax really only become a Cobham issue once they are on the aircraft. QF look after checkin, bus transfers etc etc etc.
Maintenance is generally a QF issue. They accept responsibility for most maintenance issue delays. Therefore if your flight is delayed, and out of Perth thats not uncommon who are you blaming?
You sound like a sour little man with a misguided agenda, find out the facts before you write such rubbish.
Imagine a world where you were employed by Qlink. You do their flying, so why not?
As of when did QLink start employing pilots?
Or a world where a Cobham FO could have a crack at a dash command.
I don't believe thats a realistic comment.
A large percentage of the F/Os come from the command turbo prop command background, i.e. Rex, Sunstate/Eastern, etc with others from the military Hercs, fast jets, some 737 guys. It is unsual to fly with an F/O who would like to go back to a Dash command, if they did they could transfer to Coast-watch, they pay better than Sunstate/Eastern in any case. (I think)
Maybe idiot was incorrect, fool or ignoramus looks a better fit. An idiot, dolt, or dullard is an intellectually disabled person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way. Archaically the word mome has also been used. The similar terms moron, imbecile, and cretin have all gained specialized meanings in modern times. An idiot is said to be idiotic, and to suffer from idiocy. A dunce is an idiot who is specifically incapable of learning. An idiot differs from a fool (who is unwise) and an ignoramus (who is uneducated/an ignorant), neither of which refers to someone with low intelligence.

[cloudsurfng]

You will notice that in none of my posts did I 'play the man'. I simply made comment (my opinion, which I'm entitled to) about the 717 Operation. You can argue until you're blue in the face, until I travel and have a good experience....my opinion will remain the same.

I pity you in the fact that you could not continue yours without resulting to personal attacks on others with opposing views.

You seem to have made a rapid assessment of me, perhaps that says even more about you.:D

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

He must be winding us up Ken.

The boyfriend can't get staff travel from his girlfriends mother (it would have to be his mother), and if the girlfriend is over 26, she won't get it either.

He may tell his step father that he is swanning around in Business class, and may very well be, but it has nothing to do with his girlfriends mum who works for catering.

[RENURPP]

Cloudsurfing.
You post stupid inaccurate rubbish and thats what you get.

[shpilot]

Congratulations you all win! See:

http://comedy.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2011/08/mad-at-the-internet.jpg

[TwoFiftyBelowTen]

It's gospel. I don't know the rules, so perhaps the rules have been bent. Girlfriend is 25. But I don't see why my step-son is entitled to QF staff travel when a Cobham pilot who flies for Qlink is not.. is that what you Cobham chaps are saying?

[AEROMEDIC]

Not bent......BROKEN!

There is always someone willing to take that risk to win a few brownie points or bragging rights on staff travel and they DO get found out.

Follow the rules ....no problem.
Dress correctly and smile nicely at the right time and you MIGHT get an upgrade or ON when others might not get on.
NEVER tell other pax that you get this benefit.
Don't complain when you get offloaded mid trip and it costs you heaps until you get back on.

Back to the thread perhaps?.......

[SpannerTwister]

Cobham 717 Engineer $105K, QF 737 Engineer $130+

enough said.

Yes, You're right.

Enough said.

While it's inconvenient to some people, let's get the FACTS correct, unless of course you have a problem with the FACTS distorting your FICTION ?

Sources, FWA

Cobham
http://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/agreements/fwa/AE899048.pdf

Qantas
http://www.fwc.gov.au/awards/tracee/agreements/pdf/AG891046.pdf

A Cobham B717 Mechanical (Dual) Engineer earns (base rate, no overtime, all shift penalties included) $103,554 + ($1,009.26 * 2 ) = $105,572 pa

Note, Cobham staff will receive a 4% pay rise on 01/07/14, their new rate will then be $109,795 pa

A Qantas B737 Mechanical (Engine / Airframe) earns $1,385.51 per week (base rate, no overtime, no shift penalties included)

Allowing an average of 40% roster-averaged penalties,
($1,385.51 + 40%) * 52 = $100,865 pa

Note, Qantas employees received a 3% pay rise on 01/01/14, included in the above figures.

Sorry if these FACTS do not match your FICTION.

Are your others FICTIONS as accurate as these FACTS?

SpannerTwister

[empire4]

Spanner twister, I'd love for you to tell me how many QF LAMEs are Level 5……

I'll make a guess and say most blokes are on level 10-12. $1842.24 + 40% x 52 = $134,115 pa + all the other little add ons. Then you have to factor in all the other big dogs on higher levels. Not to mention last in first out for CR. +++ all the other bolt on payments for everything else under the sun. You are dreaming.

This is exactly the problem. Yeah you're right in a world of all level 5 LAMEs QF would be cheaper, but we simply don't live in that world.

But hey, its your world. believe what you like.

[The Baron]

Virgin's Embraers don't have any payload limits out of Canberra either. Alan's jumped the wrong way again.

[SpannerTwister]

how many QF LAMEs are Level 5
I honestly have no idea, do you ?

I was trying, as imperfect as the system is, to compare apples with apples, that is, I selected the bottom-rung-single-licenced LAME from both companies.

Qantas employees, as you are well aware, gain levels for both additional licences and (blocks of four, subject to caps) years of service. There are an awful lot of "young" LAMEs around who are single-licenced and less than, say eight, years of service who will likely never see a double-digit level!

Furthermore. you cannot possible complain that a Qantas LAME with two or three types gets paid more than a LAME at any other company with just a single licence ?

all the other bolt on payments for everything else
Yes, Qantas engineers do get bolt-on payments for additional skills, responsibilities etc.

It's all detailed in the award I linked to, no surprises at all.

Oh, BTW, Cobham LAMEs also get similar bolt-on payments, their's are listed in the Cobham award linked to.

But hey, its your world. believe what you like.
Thank you, don't mind if I do.

If you really want to nit-pick why don't you point out that Qantas LAMEs work an "average" of 38 hours / week, Cobham LAMEs an "average" of 35 hours / week.

Page 35Employees are required to work 35 ordinary hours a week or an average of 35 hours a week over a period up to but not exceeding 52 weeks.Again, "The massive pay difference" between Cobham cleaners and Qantas Check-Captains, conclusively proving that all Qantas staff are grossly overpaid, is a result of ignorance, selective quoting, and, dare I say it, the "occasional" bit of deliberate mis-information.

SpannerTwister

[Stalins ugly Brother]

Cobham 717 Captain pay $160K, QF 737 Captain pay $230K


So let me get this straight,
A Cobham 717 in the new config 12 business, 98 economy, total 110 pax
vs
A Qantas 737-800 12 business, 156 economy, total 168 pax.
As opposed to the flight crew on Cobham where a skipper earns $160k
vs
at Qantas where a Skipper earns $230K.


Always makes me laugh when individuals try to accuse others doing the same job of being overpaid to justify their lot in life.

I would have thought it would be more appropriate to aspire to increase salaries and conditions to a greater level than to be part of the downward spiral that lines managements pockets while taking food off our families tables. :ugh:

Maybe it's just me that thinks this. :rolleyes:

[tempsky]

I would have thought it would be more appropriate to aspire to increase salaries and conditions to a greater level
Me thinks there are a number of shills on this site who want to just the opposite occur.

[Prince Niccolo M]

The Baron said:

Virgin's Embraers don't have any payload limits out of Canberra either.
Wow, that engine must have some excess thrust at 50C to generate 3.5% net OEI gradient :ooh: :ooh: :ooh:

[Blitzkrieger]

Do QF/JQ/Qlink (the real one:) or Virgin currently have bases in hobart? Or is it all handled with layovers?

[Nassensteins Monster]

Cobham 717 Captain pay $160K, QF 737 Captain pay $230K


So let me get this straight,
A Cobham 717 in the new config 12 business, 98 economy, total 110 pax
vs
A Qantas 737-800 12 business, 156 economy, total 168 pax.
As opposed to the flight crew on Cobham where a skipper earns $160k
vs
at Qantas where a Skipper earns $230K.
If my math is correct that's about a 4% advantage to the Qantas skipper per seat is it not??

Irrelevant if the 738 is only say 67% full, whereas the 717 is chockers. And that's probably closer to the truth of why the 717s are picking up mainline sectors.

[Australopithecus]

You are right about pay...we should all just take maybe $5.00 per hour per passenger. Maybe as low as $3.00 each. Reckon the punters would go for that?

[hotnhigh]

Austral,
Interesting point. I will take your $3.
Consider the numbers on a Qf 737 with say 160 punters on board. FO pay around $170/hour.
Combined with the capt rate. $3/ passenger might cover the lot!
And if each seat was sold at about $80 for a flight between syd-mel, you can see why Joyce would target pilot pay rates!

[Australopithecus]

That was $3.00 each:)

There is an equation somewhere that quantifies our pay on a per passenger basis, but no one really wants to consider the ramifications, and there would be hurdles to overcome in spreading the risk of low loads to the staff. On the other hand, it would be a self-regulating mechanism to constrain costs in traffic lulls.

The upside of course is that flying during school holidays would go very senior!;)

And consider the effect on your pay for ferry flights and stupid scheduling.

[empire4]

Obviously you don't have to be that smart to fly big jets…...

[Capt Claret]

Obviously you don't have to be that smart to fly big jets…...

Nope.

Glorified bus drivers.

Just ask bob! :yuk:

[AEROMEDIC]

There is an equation somewhere that quantifies our pay on a per passenger basis, but no one really wants to consider the ramifications, and there would be hurdles to overcome in spreading the risk of low loads to the staff. On the other hand, it would be a self-regulating mechanism to constrain costs in traffic lulls.


Consider this, if it was broadly applied across everyone employed by the company from the board to ground staff, I wonder what the result would be and what might be left for the shareholders.
There again,seeing as you have raised this, I'd be pleased if you can post this equation.

[Australopithecus]

I am not privy to any such equation-rather it was an oblique way of saying that you can construct a ratio using any variables to better understand what costs actually are on a unit basis.

Broadly divide the entire flight crew overhead by the number of passengers (multiplied by a qualifier such as distance, time or any other variable which provides the dimensioning insight.

RPKs are the industry standard, but obviously they do not provide a picture of costs on an hourly basis.

Any such pay calculation would have many issues to address. At the end of the day no pilot that I know would accept more financial risk for the current reward.

In any event the way that pay is calculated is moot: there will always be a perception problem that can be manipulated by rhetoric.

An (apparently low) pay per passenger number would only serve to make our pay seem like a bargain. It was a throw-away line on my part, but it could be a tool for educating the travelling public.

[ThePassingBay]

Do QF/JQ/Qlink (the real one or Virgin currently have bases in hobart? Or is it all handled with layovers?
Hey Blitzkrieger; the real one?! Do you mean Sunny or Eastern?

[Blitzkrieger]

The real qlink?

There are some who seem to take offence at Cobham operating under the QantasLink banner. By the real qlink I mean any qlink that is NOT Cobham.

I was curious to see which other companies have bases there. None it seems.

[Buckshot]

I was curious to see which other companies have bases there

JQ did operate a base at Hobart for a few years but it was closed and most of the guys were sent to the much more profitable Darwin base. Oh hang on... :ugh:

[Blitzkrieger]

Thanks Buckshot, I can imagine an airline opening a base down there could be quite a positive thing.

An originating jet needs:
Fuel
Catering
Cleaning
Engineering
Aircrew
Somewhere to park
Etc.

Good for the economy surely. So what is Wilkie going on about?

[BNEA320]

very soon.