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View Full Version : Would you buy a house near a 400kV power line?


CEJM
12th Jan 2014, 10:30
The missus and I are looking to move house. She has done a lot of research and found a nice house, the problem is that it is 460 feet (140 meters) from a 400kV power line pylon.

Initially she was worried about the negative health implications so we have had a survey done, which showed no increased EMF at the house.

The house is priced very reasonably and the price certainly takes into account that it is near a power line. However it has been on the market now for 2 years and in these two years the vendors have dropped the price by 115.000 and still not a lot of interest.

I have spoken to a friend who is a structural surveyor in the area and he says that it is a very realistic price, taking into account the pylon.

Personally I am not to bothered by the power lines or the pylon, what bothers me is a future sale.

Hence my question, would you buy a house 460 feet (140 meters) away from a power line/pylon?

Fox3WheresMyBanana
12th Jan 2014, 10:40
Your answer about future sale prospects is given in your third sentence.
Buy the worst house in the best area is the advice I was always given, and followed when I was doing up properties. I always made a profit. You would be doing the opposite if you bought this property.

cockney steve
12th Jan 2014, 10:43
Realistically, that's about 10 houses away.....or , at the other end of the street.

At that distance, I don't think i'd be too bothered.
Apparently, if you stick a fluorescent light tube into the ground, within the corona of an EHT supply, the tube will glow!

maybe there's free power to be had?:8 -Well, no, actually, it's illegal.....but living within the invisible ionised field emitted by these wires, has been identified as a health risk.

If all else is right with the house....bid the owner at rock bottom.....remember, you can easily increase the offer, but it's damned hard to reduce it!

Kulverstukas
12th Jan 2014, 10:46
If this is AC line, you can make big coil around house and have some electricity... ;)

OFSO
12th Jan 2014, 10:47
10 houses away - I'd say no problem. But houses here right under powerlines (or almost so) which are for sale stay vacant for years. So both a perceived health risk and a poor resale value.

CEJM
12th Jan 2014, 10:49
The house is in the country side so no other houses between this house and the power line. Only a neighbor on the other side.

west lakes
12th Jan 2014, 10:56
has been identified as a health risk.

A possible but unlikely health risk!

A full read of this site is always useful. National Grid EMF - Welcome to the EMFs.info website (http://www.emfs.info/)

And answer the question "This site gives links to all the organisations that express concern about emfs. Go onto their websites and see if you can find links going the other way?"
So who is giving the more balanced view?

charliegolf
12th Jan 2014, 11:09
So who is giving the more balanced view?

The balanced view is not important- what's important is what buyers, informed by the media (not always correctly) believe.

The OP kinda KNOWS that the risks are low, but he also knows what a lot of people THINK about pylons and wires.

I wouldn't for that reason.

CG

G-CPTN
12th Jan 2014, 11:10
At the end of the day (or, at least, in the future) it depends on 'public opinion' as to whether the house will be attractive to buyers.

Facts mean nothing - it's what people think that matters.

You can''t force people to buy if they don't want to.

As suggested, if you want to buy it offer silly (low) money. Don't be impatient (unless you desperately want the property) as there is unlikely to be any other takers from what you report.

However, consider it as a home rather than an investment and pay what you can afford.

OFSO
12th Jan 2014, 11:15
If this is AC line, you can make big coil around house and have some electricity...

Thread Drift: I knew of a family who profited by living very near a low-frequency transmitting station communicating with submarines. I believed some enthusiastic amateur wound coils and tapped the CW for power.

May be apocryphal story. Does this ring a bell with anyone who used to live in the UK Midlands ?

More Thread Drift: are high tension lines still used to carry communications ? There used to be massive filters (built in blockhouses) on the lines where they crossed from West to East Germany back in the Good Old Days.

cattletruck
12th Jan 2014, 11:56
Is there a low hum that can be heard at night?

I doubt there is much risk 100+m away, but the sight of the pylons could be a downer considering their industrious lustre has now been replaced with paranoia.

CEJM
12th Jan 2014, 12:13
When we viewed the property you could not hear it hum, even in the light drizzle we had.

National Grid have done an EMF survey and the results were the same as they would for a house nowhere near a power line.

I agree that you need to buy a house as a home and not as an investment but I think that you should think a little about a possible sale in the future. Especially as we know that we most likely be moving again in 10/15 years time.

The issue in my opinion is public perception. If you look on the internet then it says that there is no proof for any health risks associated with high voltage power lines but you can also find studies saying the opposite. It really depends on what you want to believe!

radeng
12th Jan 2014, 12:16
I certainly would not, but in my case, it's because of the radio noise those lines emit, and as I'm a radio amateur, that's very important.

tony draper
12th Jan 2014, 12:26
I would imagine we are all walking about in a veritable sea of EMR these days.:uhoh:

toffeez
12th Jan 2014, 12:33
... No, No and No.

No way.

G-CPTN
12th Jan 2014, 12:36
Is the property occupied?

What sort of TV reception have they got?

When you visit is there interference on your car radio?

The more questions you can raise with the owners/agent, the more chance you stand of getting a reduction in the price.

onetrack
12th Jan 2014, 12:42
I wouldn't buy the house just based on the ugliness of having to look at power pylons and a powerline all day long - but that's just my personal opinion.
Lots of people live near major powerlines and are happy enough to put up with the ugliness.
I really don't understand why more powerlines aren't buried in this day and age of modern construction techniques.

The fact that the HT powerline is perceived by many potential buyers as a health risk (and IMHO, the health risk is low at 140M distance), is the major factor in the deal - and it means the resale of the property will always be poor - and if you do purchase it, then buyers will be difficult to find when you eventually do want to sell.

If it's a nice house with a nice layout, and you'd be happy living in it, then the substantially cheaper purchase price will mean lower financing costs - and all you have to put up with, is limited capital gains and a possibly slow sale when it's time to move on.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
12th Jan 2014, 12:44
I think underground power lines are around 7x more expensive.

G-CPTN
12th Jan 2014, 12:51
it is 460 feet (140 meters) from a 400kV power line pylon.
Which way do the cables run? (ie do they get any closer than the pylon?)

CEJM
12th Jan 2014, 13:15
The house is occupied and no interference was noted on the car radio. However, I have to admit that I was really listening for interference on the radio.

Negotiations where held and we got the vendors down as low as they were willing to go. Unfortunately the missus is still having some niggling doubts if we should proceed, she is worried about a sale taking ages.

140 meters is the closest they come to the property. They run at right angles to the property.

arcniz
12th Jan 2014, 13:40
At 140m distance, the power lines are more likely a visual annoyance than a health risk. Some creative planting of attractive and fruitful trees by you as Owner in the years intervening between purchase and re-sale might make the wires a whole lot less conspicuous to future buyers, thereby shaving to your favor some of the "buzz" discount.

In fog & mist, some audible discharges and maybe also radio & tv interference might occasionally be noticeable, depending on how the lines sit relative to winds and to your off-air reception paths. One might want to investigate whether wireless or DSL-type wired data services are available, as a parallel country-living query. Often they aren't. Cable and data services could solve all that fast, of course -- and/or some long wires to well-placed antenna sites.

Furrow brow, print out a stack of EMF terror rant from internet, and bargain with a will and a way for price or contract concessions if you decide to buy.

Calculate the difference in your purchase cost resulting from the power lines proximity. Translate that to your accumulated difference in costs (lower interest and tax expenses mostly) for your anticipated period of stay. Intuition suggests your financial advantage will be noticeably in the plus column, and your ultimate return from selling may well be a gain over the power-pole discounted purchase price you have paid, even if wire-worry perceptions do not change much for the better. Perhaps spending some of the purchase discount savings on somethings to please the Mrs. will help her feel better about the deal also. "New kitchen" has a nice ring.

Good luck! Please let us know what happens.

Windy Militant
12th Jan 2014, 13:52
I was going to post a picture of a house in the Valleys that was hit by an 11kV line when a Pole broke but I couldn't find it on the net.
The chances of that happening are slim but the other thing you have to consider is that in damp, drizzly weather the thing will buzz and crackle as the power flashes across the insulators.
I'd forgotten about this until last week when due to the absolutely persisting down rain I parked my car near to the building entrance which is across the road from a sub station. Upon returning to my car later that day the rain had eased to a misty drizzle and I heard the Flash Gordon spaceship buzz coming from the insulators.
Last time I saw this was working on a farm back in Wales where due to the lay of the land you could see directly across to the insulators on a 33KV line crossing the cwm.
In wet weather especially in the late afternoon as the sun was setting you could see the current tracking like worms across the insulators and there would also be the occasional flash as the rain water bridged the insulator gap.

I'd still like to know, why if there's nothing coming off grid lines, did that bloke get done for stealing electricity when he set up an induction coil in his garden!;)
Crossed post with Arcniz.
PS OFSO I was told it was radio four in the Droitwich area when I was on a course with the BBC. there were complaints about reception in the area and a black spot was found behind the guys house where he'd rigged the induction loop in the attic!

fmgc
12th Jan 2014, 14:01
Unfortunately the missus is still having some niggling doubts

It is singularly the most important and expensive purchase that you will ever make in your life. If you are not 100% then walk away.

ricardian
12th Jan 2014, 14:06
There's a discussion of this on Snopes forum (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=929)

LGS6753
12th Jan 2014, 14:06
My house is approx 600ft from a similar pylon line. We notice no effect, but can hear fizzing noises when walking close to the wires in fog/rain.

Mrs LGS and I consider there are more intrusive things to consider when buying property, notably traffic noise which can 'travel' three miles in rural areas.

arcniz
12th Jan 2014, 14:08
Crossed post with Arcniz

...but a good parallel, nonetheless.

One knows a swank beach community perched on dunes sometimes downwind from a giant gritty city where the ocean-view-maybe homes cost like crazy....also where near all of the 6 or 9 kv local power lines crackle endlessly in the night and morning hours of very common beach fog, with leaky noisy power due to little real rain, year-to-year, and great fog-damp deposits of pollution & conductive grit on the insulators.

An electric symphony in a neighborhood where even the shacks cost a million $$ and up. Folk don't seem to complain, tho.

CEJM
12th Jan 2014, 14:26
It is singularly the most important and expensive purchase that you will ever make in your life. If you are not 100% then walk away.

FMGC, if you hear a No.1 on your flight complain about power lines, then you know we bought the house! :ok:

Thank you everybody for all your suggestions. I will let the missus have a read as she is the one who ultimately decides. A happy wife is a happy life. :)

OFSO
12th Jan 2014, 14:33
I have no doubt that power lines in the UK are better maintained than in Spain. It is not that unusual to see insulators glowing red hot here and the local power company, Endesa, have over the past ten years been hit with very high fines for being the cause of forest fires starting thorough poor line maintenance. Of course the lines sizzle and crackle in damp weather, but I thought that was usual.

arcniz
12th Jan 2014, 16:02
Of course the lines sizzle and crackle in damp weather, but I thought that was usual.

Usual.... to some degree it is usual and unavoidable. The standard for conduct of power provider business is that contaminated lines and soiled insulators need to be cleaned and dressed from time to time, lest loss of property or life ensue.

Sunnyjohn
12th Jan 2014, 16:22
Regardless of the possible health risks, and the noise, Fox3 is right on this one. Our friend is trying to sell a house here and the 400kV lines are a few metres away. No-one wants to buy it and several have said that the power lines are the reason. Unless you intend to live there until you expire, I would avoid it.

vulcanised
12th Jan 2014, 16:35
The power lines at that distance wouldn't bother me if the price is right.

What would put me off would be a sub-station in the immediate vicinity.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
12th Jan 2014, 16:56
My brother is a specialist in ionising radiation. He has often appeared as an expert witness in court for mobile phone companies (he is a self-employed consultant) and chairs international conferences on radiation.

He isn't in the least bothered about phone masts (apart from they might look ugly), but wouldn't touch a house near a high voltage power line. They are not just 50Hz lines, they also carry data, not least fault diagnosis messages. This data uses a high frequency carrier, and it is this high frequency at high voltage that is the radiation danger he perceives.

llondel
12th Jan 2014, 17:21
I wouldn't buy it. Chances are it's perfectly safe, but you have to consider that if you want to sell in the future, other people may well be having similar discussions to the one here.

I have a similar dilemma - an interesting place for sale that has been on the market for much longer than the norm for the area and the immediate reaction is "what's wrong with it?" (noting that we haven't actually been to view it) If the property is fine, there's something else putting people off, which is worse because the property can be fixed, the local environment can't.

CEJM
12th Jan 2014, 18:36
I have a similar dilemma - an interesting place for sale that has been on the market for much longer than the norm for the area and the immediate reaction is "what's wrong with it?".

I know the feeling!! The house is in good condition bar a few things which you can expect from a property which is between 300-400 years old. It is a good price for a nice house but the pylon seems to be the stumbling block.

What doesn't help either is that the vendors say that they absolutely love the house and only want to move 15 minutes up the road. Yet to achieve that they dropped the price 145.000 and still hardly any interest. To drop such an amount of money when you love the house and are only moving 15 minutes up the road seems madness.

Nervous SLF
12th Jan 2014, 19:00
I wouldn't buy that house not so much because I worry about EMF but for the reason that it is difficult to re-sell.
At the moment and for the next few years this might not concern you as everything in your life is ok. However
IF ( and I sincerely hope it doesn't ) something goes wrong in your life and you really need to sell it fast just remember
how long the it took for the house to be sold this time.

B Fraser
12th Jan 2014, 19:05
The last time I was house hunting, I used that online street viewing tool. Any property with a pylon within sight was instantly dropped. In years to come, your potential buyers will be doing the same. It wasn't a question of health issues, they're ugly and there are plenty of other properties to choose from where there are no pylons to look at.


If I could have found a place with a preserved steam railway at the bottom of the garden then that would have been terrific. I didn't but there's a rather large one just a few miles away.

racedo
12th Jan 2014, 20:02
Avoid like the plague.

They can't sell so all they doing is passing it on to someone who can't sell.

Wife not convinced is good enough for me.

Lantern10
12th Jan 2014, 20:45
Many years ago, when attending the Glastonbury Festival, I noticed a strange feeling, like the hair on my head standing up, when walking a certain path. I then noticed this feeling was only present when standing "Directly" under the top conductor of the large power lines that ran over the festival.
Moving a foot to the left or right the feeling went away only to return when being directly under the topmost line.
Others then confirmed the feelings.

FullOppositeRudder
12th Jan 2014, 20:51
I certainly wouldn't buy it. The resale issues you are seeing now will be yours at sometime in the future.

As another amateur radio operator, I certainly wouldn't live there.

Not for me.

for

Tankertrashnav
12th Jan 2014, 21:21
I live in a house on a fairly busy, fast A road. People often ask me if I am worried by the noise and I can honestly say I am not. We have good double glazing, and the way the house is configured means we can get very good ventilation in hot weather by opening windows to the rear which admit very little noise. That and the fact that we have lived here so long that any noise there is is perceived as a vague background hum means that noise just isn't a problem.

BUT

I realise that if and when we come to sell the house, I can repeat all of the above to a potential buyer and it will cut no ice whatsoever. I reckon the roadside location knocks 50 - 100 k off the property's value, but there's nothing I can do about that.

Same story with the pylons!

Democritus
12th Jan 2014, 21:30
OK, it's not 400kV but I have lived for 18 years some 150 metres from a 132kV power line with no noticeable ill effects ....yet. It's soon to be upgraded to 400kV because of all the wretched inefficient wind turbines further up country. However I probably wouldn't buy your proposed property merely because of the difficulty the present owners have had in selling it.

Rosevidney1
12th Jan 2014, 21:34
The three most important things when buying a house are location, location and location. Forget those at your peril.

Windy Militant
12th Jan 2014, 21:42
The three most important things when buying a house are location, location and the plimsole line! Forget those at your peril.
Just an additional thought is it on a flood plain! ;)

Loose rivets
12th Jan 2014, 21:49
Mmmm . . . Location, Pah! Just imagine the scenario of a mizzly afternoon. You hear an airliner overhead, clearly in distress, you duck to look up through the window at the grey clouds.

On board, the gallant captain is struggling to break cloud. He has no instrumentation following some mysterious burst of EM radiation. As finally he emerges from the cloud he sees a house ahead at less than half a mile.

"We must pull up again!"

"No!" Cries the first officer. "We'll be without situational awareness once more!" (what he actually said, was, Fcuk that! but all pilots know how to translate such well-known phases into specifics.)

"We must! We can't hit that house!" The brave captain cries as he pulls back on the yoke.

It was the very moment that the pilots saw the wires, and sadly, although they raised the nose, the tail's lowered angle caused it to hit the wires. This affected the aircraft in two ways:

One, it pitched it nose down. Two, due to sheer bad luck, the aircraft disconnected from the wires while the voltage was at the zenith of its sign-wave. They were now charged up to 440,000 volts.

"Drat!" Cried the first officer. "We're charged up to 440,000 volts."

He knew this because he'd worked on high voltage installations to earn the money to become a pilot, and he could assess the precise potential difference in any given field by the tightness of his scrotum.

"Are you sure?" The captain shouted.

His call was to no avail, as the nose was closing fast on your back garden. It was at this moment one of the major selling points of your property became crystal clear. But let's look at what happened.

The high voltage aircraft discharged from its nose to the ground, and the vast energy created a mighty pressure wave that hurled the forward end skyward. Even more incredibly that ball of super-heated air then lifts the tail causing the craft to narrowly miss your house but land safely in a field some 441 yards in front of your home. No one had a scratch.

You look straight into the eyes of your prospective buyer that happens to have picked this hour on this day to view your home, and this is where, without batting an eyelid, you pull out your ace card.

"You can't beat having a lucky house. The price is firm."


Well, there are already too many clever people on this thread.:p

John Hill
12th Jan 2014, 22:14
I would buy it at a fair price taking into account the expected depressed eventual resale value and I would enjoy spending the other hundred thousand quid on something else.

Pappa Smurf
12th Jan 2014, 23:49
No doubt the same house would be more if it was miles away.
Present owners knocked o0ff 145g.Thats off their asking price,but that means nothing------------what did they pay for it.
People live on main roads,next to motor ways,under flight paths and beside railway lines.No one will ever pay top money for such ,but at right price you soon get used to it.
May as well buy one now at a good price than have something passing your house in a few years dropping the price.

reynoldsno1
13th Jan 2014, 00:40
Two salient factors are now apparent:

1. the missus is still having some niggling doubts - which will not dissipate one iota over the next 10-15 years ...
2. the vendors say that they absolutely love the house and only want to move 15 minutes up the road - they lie like cheap Bangkok watch ... doesn't make sense, unless they'll still be making a decent capital gain - which means they got the house at whatever is less than a rock bottom price. :suspect:

onetrack
13th Jan 2014, 04:39
SWMBO has mentioned a good point. Have you enquired after the health of the people moving out? How long have they lived there? - and have they acquired any nasty radiation-style or carcinogenic diseases within that time frame? :hmm:

Of course, you probably also need to check, as to just how many people have been murdered in the house, too. :eek:

Worrals in the wilds
13th Jan 2014, 05:23
The resale hassle would scare me off.

Without wading into the actual powerline debate, many people see them as a health risk and people are getting more worked up about health risks these days. I think this is where it differs from a noisy property, because noise is subjective and generally seen as a nuisance rather than a health issue. Also, most noisy stuff (trains, aircraft etc) is getting quieter.

Unlike a noisy property, I think it will become even more difficult to sell in the future than it is now, and it's been difficult enough already.

Also, if you or a future buyer need finance, you may find your bank gets very cold feet if the resale is likely to be slow, and won't approve the loan. I only mention it because it's happened to me :ouch:; it may be different in the UK.

cattletruck
13th Jan 2014, 06:01
Put yourself in the sellers shoes because that could be you in 10 to 15 years time.

If it's all about money then on the plus side with the way things are going you could also be entitled to multi million dollar compensation because the pylon made you depressed.

I'd be a bit worried about the seller wanting to move just 15 minutes away, there could be some development plans that only he may be privy to having lived there long enough.

You have to take it on its own merits for what it is. Just yesterday in inner suburbia, my friend is in shock after stepping on her balcony and noticing a man up a tree spying on her.

OFSO
13th Jan 2014, 07:10
Mr Rivets: you throw into this discussion the phrase

he could assess the precise potential difference in any given field by the tightness of his scrotum.

as if it were a given fact known to all. Is this so ? Personally I have always attributed the occasional tightness of my scrotum to other, more mundane causes. I would like more evidence of this matter, perhaps with reference to the famous Leydon jar and pith balls demonstration.

Loose rivets
13th Jan 2014, 07:34
By the most extraordinary change, goo-goo hit this first time:

A medium is usually full of crap. A truly sensitive person is aware of the electrical fields around them and interprets these signals in an uneducated manner. Learn about how animals like sharks and fish are aware of electrical fields and it will help you to develop your skills.

Source(s): 'Science'


See!:p

G&T ice n slice
13th Jan 2014, 08:23
I can't believe the aircraft incident hypothesized above.

No orphanage, no school, no hospital ???

Thomas coupling
13th Jan 2014, 09:10
Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Bristol Uni did research on this many moons ago and the EM emissions form a corona around the cables themselves and attract (like a sponge) all the air pollutants passing by and concentrate them permanently around the wires. This corona bends and sways as the EM emission inceases/decreases and is affected by the sun's output too. So your distance varies in terms of being 100yds ish away.

Take a look at health reports around the national nuclear power stations and in particular childhood leukemia. The same could be applied with intense concentrations of EM emmisions and power cables. You have choice on your side - don't touch it with a barge pole especially if you are bringing family up - totally irresponsible in the long term and quite frankly - not a necessary imperative to live there purely because of price.

cockney steve
14th Jan 2014, 14:20
not a necessary imperative to live there purely because of price.


Surely, that depends on your financial circumstances.?

If a realistic value is put on the property (try building-cost, plus a nominal amount for the "blighted" land), you then have to weigh up the cost of the same class of property in a similar neighbourhood , without the blight.

Now ascertain the rental-potential.....IF the figures were favourable for buying to live , long term, they should show a stunningly -good return on capital as a rental (buy to let)...Any lender will be happy to lend against anything that can produce an assured good return on investment.

the whole key is the true value of the property....present incumbents were either delusiory or flying a kite on their initial price.

no loss to you, to bid them in the balls with a 7-day "take it or leave it" offer.....just make sure it would let at a good return on your capital.


that gets rid of the selling issue....just look long-term at an investment you'll write down and get a good return on.

Land, at the correct price, is always a good investment in this septic isle....they aren't making any more of it!

As an aside, my mother bought a building-plot with a supply-pole on it, for which the electricity people paid rent.....the wires would have been too close to the roof of the proposed dwelling, rather than move the pole, they bought the pitch off her! (good profit!)

Leydon jar and pith balls

I thought they contained sthperm :}

hat, coat.

Loose...thanks for the short story...I larfed.

rgbrock1
14th Jan 2014, 15:05
FWIW:

My ex comes from the Wirral area of Merseyside. Or is it Merseyside in the Wirral area? Who knows and who cares? Here's the point.

The ex, her parents, neighbors and friends live/lived in a neighborhood where the aforementioned 400kV power lines went through.

The ex's father died aged 65 from cancer. The ex's mother is ill in health and the numbers of neighbors, friends and family in that neighborhood who have died from cancer - mostly lymphoma-type cancers - is ridiculously high.

Is there a correlation? Who knows.

Tu.114
14th Jan 2014, 15:15
As has been mentioned, You are about to spend a sizeable sum of money on a place for You and Your family to spend a hopefully long time in.

It seems that neither You nor Your wife are entirely convinced at the moment - the probability of this changing in the next 30 or 40 years is small to nil. Possible nasty side effects aside, You will see these lines every day, hear them hum in humid weather etc. and if there is already an unease of mind about their presence before You move there, it will likely remain. Worst of all, in the highly undesirable case statistics strike and any illness befalls any of You - the nagging question of "What if we had lived somewhere else" will become quite present even if a connection will never be proven or disproven probably.

And all this because You want to save a pound or two? My advice would be to walk away and find some place You have no weird gut feeling about.

dazdaz1
14th Jan 2014, 15:26
Rgbrock1..........."My ex comes from the Wirral area of Merseyside" You may have noticed most scousers have a good tan. I believe it's to do with copper wire:E Being a scouser myself, I have the right.

rgbrock1
14th Jan 2014, 15:41
dazdaz:

That's odd because my ex is as white as a ghost and looks like a lobster after spending any amount of time in the sun. :E

dazdaz1
14th Jan 2014, 16:09
brock1....Poor darling,;) I feel for you.

rgbrock1
14th Jan 2014, 16:12
Not a poor darling: she's my ex!

dazdaz1
14th Jan 2014, 16:44
I was referring to you!

Loose rivets
14th Jan 2014, 16:51
In my mad yooof, I had/have a pal that lives in a fine house overlooking farmland, Frinton golf course and the sea some ten minutes walk away. He's raised some 100' and the view is magnificent. But it wasn't always so.

Back in the 70s, Frinton international was just his side of the golf course, and, half way between my (30 shillings a week 8 acre landing strip) was a vast line of pylons taking power to Frinton and Walton on the Naze. His brain learned to shut them out, but what a scar on a beautiful part of Essex.

I used to commute from Luton into FI at night. My overshoot - alongside a line of oak trees - was power on, rotate, stopwatch, and at 27 seconds start the left turn. Trees on the left and pylons on the right. Could see neither. It concentrated the mind, it did. After a break away flying somewhere else, I came back and the pylons were gone. Just not there. I visited my friend more to look out at his now perfect view than to have a natter. One day, a quarter-million pound house, next day (well, almost) a half-million pound house.

It's that luck thing. Perhaps if the OP purchased the house the pylons would disappear. Think how the old owners just down the road would feel.

Failing that, you could nip out at night and plant ivy. If you can make it grow like it does in North Carolina* they'd be hidden in a week. (stunning there. Park a car and it's covered in minutes.)


*I think it was there. We'd been to see Biltmore, a fantastic mansion . . . well, here it is.

I bet they wouldn't have pylons trailing across their front lawn.

Come to think of it. The house had an area of the cellar devoted to DC power. AC wasn't quite trusted I don't think, so they generated that in the village built to support the estate. Oh, another thing. By the sweeping stone staircase was a vast iron? chandelier. Vast, and weighing in at 1,700 lbs if memory serves. When they went to electrify it, they found the supporting bolt - one in shear - was nearly worn through. Vanderbilt died of appendicitis in a NY hospital not that many years after creating this paradise on Earth.

Hard to define luck.

Google Image Result for http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/68/d7/2a/biltmore-house-in-asheville.jpg (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/68/d7/2a/biltmore-house-in-asheville.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g60742-d102846-Reviews-Biltmore_Estate-Asheville_North_Carolina.html&h=189&w=266&sz=1&tbnid=Ltwr5cpyRd-LlM:&tbnh=160&tbnw=225&zoom=1&usg=__D83CdRL6QhoqmYF22MJEPGbsXn4=&docid=yalvd0SYlbt2_M&itg=1&sa=X&ei=tXnVUqW7HsnV2AWalID4Dw&sqi=2&ved=0CLwBEPwdMAo)


Now, that's thread drift.:p




.

rgbrock1
14th Jan 2014, 17:34
And the 2014 award for Master of Thread Driftology goes to....

Loose Rivets.

Congratulations sir, you are our grand prize winner. :}:E

ExSp33db1rd
14th Jan 2014, 20:27
I wouldn't buy that house not so much because I worry about EMF but for the reason that it is difficult to re-sell.
At the moment and for the next few years this might not concern you as everything in your life is ok. However
IF ( and I sincerely hope it doesn't ) something goes wrong in your life and you really need to sell it fast just remember
how long the it took for the house to be sold this time.Eggsactly.

But - there is always the right person to buy your house, the trouble is finding them.

I once over capitalised on a house in a street of identical houses, by building on an extra large room - childrens' playroom - such that on selling, my house was apparently overpriced relative to all the others, and yet didn't look any different from the street, and the Agent said it would be difficult at the price I needed.

Then .. along came a retiring couple, who wanted a smaller place to look after, and ....... needed somewhere to put two grand-pianos !!

Perfect, but I guess I was lucky.

G-CPTN
14th Jan 2014, 21:04
I had two 'lucky' house sales.

The first (after I had accepted a job that required me to move 140 miles south) was the local milkman who was in poor health after his retirement was arranging to share a home with his nephew and niece. He said that there was only one house that he would consider (ours of course).

The second (when I was again moving job, this time 170 miles north) was a local farmer who was retiring and handing the farm over to his son. Our next-door neighbour (himself a farmer) had started out working for the first farmer (and the houses were within sight of the farm).

As it happened, neither of the two purchasers lived long enough to enjoy their dream homes, both dying within a couple of months of 'completion'.

Earlier deaths would have scuppered our house sales (at a time when sales were 'slow' - mid to late 1980s).

In fact, each time I have sold a house, the circumstances have been fortunate - without stress (for us) - all extremely swift and at beneficial prices. :ok:

The first one we sold, the people knocked on our door before the agents had prepared their details, having heard on the local grapevine that we were about to move. In my naivety, I referred them to the agents who told them that the house was already sold (as they didn't have any details) and the couple returned to us 'annoyed' that we had, apparently, mislead them. I subsequently managed to avoid paying the agents a penny.

The last one that I sold (six years ago), the purchaser agreed the asking price and paid a 10,000 cash deposit which he declared via his solicitors would be non refundable if he failed to proceed with the purchase!

twb3
15th Jan 2014, 00:33
"Failing that, you could nip out at night and plant ivy. If you can make it grow like it does in North Carolina* they'd be hidden in a week. (stunning there. Park a car and it's covered in minutes.)"

That's not ivy. It's kudzu, "the weed that ate the South", which can grow up to a foot a day.

TWB

John Hill
15th Jan 2014, 03:37
The first house we had built was on a plot of land with this view..
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/2/3013527_c5431709a1.jpg
..at the end of a cul de sac, close to town and a bus service at the corner but the land was cheap as there was a raw sewerage outfall a few hundred yards off shore. As we hoped a new sewerage system was eventually built and it became a very desirable property and sold for a quite satisfactory sum.

CEJM
15th Jan 2014, 10:24
Not sure how to post it as a photo on here.

But if you click on the link below then you see the view from the edge of the property.

https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=cv7+8dg&ll=52.490895,-1.568899&spn=0.000934,0.002411&hnear=Fillongley+CV7+8DG,+Verenigd+Koninkrijk&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=52.490852,-1.568996&panoid=ayELVo-D4n8IPhIxCjr1-A&cbp=12,178.07,,0,-7.91

SpringHeeledJack
15th Jan 2014, 11:02
Your potential neighbours seem to be residing almost under said high tension power lines, maybe you should have a chat with them ? If it were me, I'd stay away, for both aesthetic reasons AND the good possibility that I might be one of those statistics that suggest that human organisms are not designed to exist in and around continuously high powered EMFs. The old adage of "he who buys cheap, buys twice..." might be worth adhering to ?

Having just looked at streetview again, I have 2 more negatives.....Property right next to road (albeit a country B road) and the crop field where various chemicals and pesticides are sprayed throughout the year, also known to be detrimental to health.



SHJ

CEJM
15th Jan 2014, 11:18
SHJ, it is not about buying cheap. We do like the property and it is big enough for the two of us. A lot of properties with a reasonable amount of land are to big for us. There is no point in buying 6 bedroom house when there is only two of us.

The house and land meet our requirements, it is just the issue of a potential slow sale when we come to sell it. Hence a little straw poll to see what the general idea is.

500N
15th Jan 2014, 11:22
Following on from SHJ re the road, not only is it on the road
but just before / after a bend.

I always look at things like this in terms of headlight shine
that I don't think will affect you but what will is those vehicles
that are braking right outside your house one way and accelerating
as they come out of the corner the other.

Not sure the living situation of the house you are looking at and
how much this will affect the standard of living.

Have you had a chance to stand and listen during busy periods ?

It might be a B road but looking at the map it seems that it is the major
B Road in the area and ? likely to get busier ?

Good luck in your search.


Just had a look on the map, I have probably been on that road and
passed that house. We used to go to Arbury Hall and I used to live
just NNW of there. Small world.

CEJM
15th Jan 2014, 11:53
500N

We went to view the property during morning rush hour and no noticeable traffic noise was heard inside the house. It also helps that there is a big hedge which reduces the noise a bit.

Outside you can hear the traffic faint in the background but it doesn't really bother us. We live along a well used road now and we don't even hear the traffic.

onetrack
15th Jan 2014, 12:41
CEJM - Further to 500N's comments, I'd be a whole lot more concerned about some drunken or speeding fool travelling at an excessive speed along the road, and losing control, then crashing through the hedge and demolishing half of your house.

It's quite a common problem here in Australia, I'm not so sure if British drivers are as prone to the problem. The building is very close to the road by anyones measure.
The hedge appears to have been installed as a traffic barrier. It would be interesting to see if there were any records or evidence of any previous damage to the house by an out-of-control vehicle.

The powerline and pylons appear to be further away than you originally spoke of - IMO opinion, the blight is the aesthetic one. It's such a lovely British rural outlook, and it's blighted by that darn powerline.

SpringHeeledJack
15th Jan 2014, 12:46
I hear you mr CEJM, it's always good to think, "Do we really need this and that ?" and the fixation on number of (extra) bedrooms in the UK, rather than size of internal space/usage. Having a spare room(s) is great to accommodate visitors, yet if that's rarely the case they can just as easily stay in a nice B&B nearby and have their own space, for example.

You seem to be somewhat set on buying the property, but are concerned with being stuck when re-sale time comes. As others have said, if you are in a good position to buy hold off and look elsewhere in the area, perhaps something new has come on the market. I bought a property a few years back, that had I tempered my 'must have' mindset with hard judgement, I'd have saved myself some hard lessons. I'd say once one knows what type of property and where and how much one wishes to spend, it's a case of judging each property harshly to see all the negatives and the one with the least wins.



SHJ

CEJM
15th Jan 2014, 13:35
Onetrack, all very valid points. The house is indeed close to a corner but if indeed a car misses the corner they end up in the garden. Coming in the other direction they would end up in the house if the miss the corner. However coming from that direction there is a much sharper corner 100 yards away which should avoid them crashing though the hedge.

SHJ, there is only two of us and it is a three bedroom house so that should be enough for visitors and a walk in closet for the missus. ;) The rest of the house is more then big enough for the both of us. We don't want a house of which half doesn't get used.

I am obviously not really clear in expressing myself. We do indeed really like the house but we are not set on buying this property. To be honest, the chance of us buying this property is about 30%.

pvmw
15th Jan 2014, 13:56
If you decide you don't want it, I'll have it :)

Seriously, the pylons are far enough away (about 150m) not to be a health problem, inverse square law and all that. Looking at the property from above, it appears that much of the garden might be beside or behind the house so the pylons won't really be obtrusive. There is already a base down for a small garage (that would be one that only has room for two cars) and a large area near the road for another. Actually the overheaqd view shows the garage has either been built or demolished.

The road looks to be minor (it doesn't seem to go anywhere in particular), so other than a bit of commuter traffic and farm vehicles I can't see it having major activity and the bend down the road is going to catch the boy racers.

Looks ideal to me, lots of room to build sheds, no immediate neighbours to fall out with. More importantly, at least one pub within walking distance - (actually that could be a problem, if its a good pub you are on the main route back to town)

CEJM
15th Jan 2014, 14:10
PVMW, you can have it! :O

The streetview photo's are about three years old. It is a good size double garage.
The road is busier then you would expect but as I said earlier, in the house you hardly hear it.

The vendors are desperate to sell!

pvmw
15th Jan 2014, 14:40
Gee, thanks!! Thats very generous of you. I do see a couple of immediate problems............

I live about 150 miles away, its a heck of a commute.

Only a double! Thats no use, where would I put the other 3 cars, 5 motorcycles and the workshop?

John Hill
15th Jan 2014, 18:21
Dont be daft! If you both like the house buy it and enjoy it!

500N
15th Jan 2014, 18:30
OneTrack

"It's such a lovely British rural outlook, and it's blighted by that darn powerline."

That area is a lovely area, in fact the whole of Staffordshire and surrounds
is great country and have probably seen most of the good parts.

But ever since I was a kid, it has had pylons all over it. That's a fact of life
in the UK that you often can't get away from.

Still remember the "buzz" you heard / felt when we used to walk under
the wires to go pigeon shooting or when catching swans etc.

fmgc
15th Jan 2014, 20:45
FMGC, if you hear a No.1 on your flight complain about power lines, then you know we bought the house!

Damn Rumbled!

Windy Militant
15th Jan 2014, 22:39
"It's such a lovely British rural outlook, and it's blighted by that darn powerline."

Blame the Kaiser!
Apparently it was a Zeppelin blowing up the turbine in Vauxhall power station which used to feed Woolwhich Arsenal that started the whole shebang.
It was one of the recommendations the committee for air defence under Jan Smutts made to the House. ;)

Nervous SLF
16th Jan 2014, 01:01
OneTrack

Still remember the "buzz" you heard / felt when we used to walk under
the wires to go pigeon shooting or when catching swans etc.

Oh boy 500N don't go back to the UK now or Aunt Betty will have you arrested :eek::eek:

kev the plumber
23rd Sep 2016, 21:04
my aunt must hold the record for close proximity to power lines..400kv lines within 2 metres of her roof
health and safety require 6 metres safe working distance which means no one is allowed to work on her roof

KenV
26th Sep 2016, 17:28
I really don't understand why more powerlines aren't buried in this day and age of modern construction techniques.It's next to impossible to bury a powerline operating at that voltage. Look at any high voltage power line and you will see the power lines are separated from the pylons by very large ceramic insulators. You'd essentially have to wrap the entire power line with insulation that thick to bury them. And the slightest damage to the insulator anywhere along its entire length could have devastating consequences. The only way to bury all power lines is to build many many more power generation stations so that the point of use is close to the point of generation.

ricardian
26th Sep 2016, 19:47
How does the insulation on the cross-channel 2 gigawatt electricity link work?

yellowtriumph
26th Sep 2016, 19:58
I used to work for Pirelli power cables.

The insulation used to consist of a mixture of paper and mineral oil (DDB) although these days generally a 'plastic' is used as the insulator. The outer is generally a corrugated aluminium sheath which gives some flexibility covered in plastic/rubber sheathing. The impressive bit is an in-line joint for such a cable - really skilled manual work and the finished article is about the size of an oil drum. I might add this was 30 years ago but I doubt much has changed apart from maybe the mineral oil.

I happen to live in a new 800 house estate across which there were overhead power cables on large pylons. For whatever reason the overhead lines were taken down across the estate and buried underground as work on the site commenced.

Some info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_cable

Sallyann1234
26th Sep 2016, 22:17
It's next to impossible to bury a powerline operating at that voltage. Not true! There is a network of 400kV underground cables under London, and others around the UK.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=400kv+underground+cables+London

NWSRG
26th Sep 2016, 23:08
The problem with very high voltage cables is that they are effectively a continuously charging and discharging capacitor, due to the copious amounts of insulation required. That capacitive effect absorbs very large charging currents, which are out of phase with the voltage, and hence stress the associated switchgear.
But it is primarily those current charging characteristics that limit the length of high voltage cables ... typically to low tens of km. The charging currents cause impractical levels of losses.
Now, if you use dc rather than ac, you only charge once on energising ... then in steady state, you don't have the charging losses. So HVDC cables can be much, much longer.

NWSRG
26th Sep 2016, 23:17
I used to work for Pirelli power cables.

Now that makes me smile at an old memory ... one Christmas, our engineers got excited because there was a Pirelli calendar going in the Christmas draw. Of course, this one was not of scantily clad girls, but of the latest cable accessories! Cue some disappointed gents... :-)

Pace
27th Sep 2016, 09:43
my aunt must hold the record for close proximity to power lines..400kv lines within 2 metres of her roof
health and safety require 6 metres safe working distance which means no one is allowed to work on her roof

My aunt and Uncle lived directly below power lines in the country. He never smoked never drank a very clean living guy and developed Cancer at the age of 63 dying within three months of the diagnosis

She has always blamed the proximity of the power lines for his Cancer and mumbled about minute continuous microwaves

I really don't have a clue whether there is any foundation to her concerns or not

Science is so imprecise with opinions changing all the time that would I buy a house close to Power Lines ? Absolutely NO

VP959
27th Sep 2016, 10:02
m

My aunt and Uncle lived directly below power lines in the country. He never smoked never drank a very clean living guy and developed Cancer at the age of 63 dying within three months of the diagnosis

She has always blamed the proximity of the power lines for his Cancer and mumbled about minute continuous microwaves

I really don't have a clue whether there is any foundation to her concerns or not

Science is so imprecise with opinions changing all the time that would I buy a house close to Power Lines ? Absolutely NO
There aren't any high frequency emissions from power lines; the highest frequency would be the low amplitude communication signals transmitted over parts of the HV network, a bit like power line ethernet connections you can run on house wiring.

There are high voltage gradients close to power lines, with a pretty strong electric field at 50 Hz, and many people can feel this at ground level. There's also a modest magnetic field around the cables, but generally this doesn't extend very far, and not really to ground level.

There has been a lot of research done on whether or not living adjacent to HV power lines poses any health risk, and so far nothing at all has been proven. That won't stop people thinking there may be an adverse effect, though, just because the electric field around these supplies can felt by some people, and, rather like chemtrails, there are a lot of people who want to believe that ill-effects are being covered up by "those in power".

FWIW I'd have no problem with living next to an HV supply cable if it was underground, but on the grounds of aesthetics only I'd rather not live close to a visible overhead set of cables.

onetrack
27th Sep 2016, 10:18
When you stop and think about it - thousands of people work inside power stations daily, where huge amounts of electrical power is produced - yet there's no evidence power station employees suffer from shortened lives, or higher levels of cancer, or higher levels of leukaemia.

Does anyone know if the OP (CEJM) did buy the house up for sale near the powerlines? Or did his wife sway the deal away from the purchase? The OP hasn't been on the forum since April 2016.
Maybe he did buy the house, and he's dying in hospital this very moment, from a rare form of cancer! :eek: :E

Pace
27th Sep 2016, 10:25
I think there is a big mistrust in the Science nowadays mainly brought on by use of the internet and media outlets

The science has been shown to be wrong time and time again. Consider the fiasco of the Icelandic eruptions and the false flow modelling closing down huge areas of safe airspace or the Bird flue with the Government buying up 2 billion in Tamiflu with people panicked into thinking that tens of thousands would die
In the end it turned out as a normal flu
Think of the drugs promoted by the huge drug companies considered safe and decades later found to be unsafe or Government health advice about turning

Too many vested interests in science and too many scientists employed to feed those vested interests so the public become suspicious take global warming ?

Electricity is so unseen an energy that naturally people will question that deeming something safe is perpetuated by self interest and big money

I am sure property prices under power cables are far less and not just for the eyesore

yellowtriumph
27th Sep 2016, 10:45
Now that makes me smile at an old memory ... one Christmas, our engineers got excited because there was a Pirelli calendar going in the Christmas draw. Of course, this one was not of scantily clad girls, but of the latest cable accessories! Cue some disappointed gents... :-)
I never got a calendar either, though the indoor hut where the cable jointers had their meal breaks had some pictures of some lovely Playmates! Classy stuff in the 70's.

I could get slippers cheap tho', possibly tyres too.

VP959
27th Sep 2016, 10:50
I think there is a big mistrust in the Science nowadays mainly brought on by use of the internet and media outlets

The science has been shown to be wrong time and time again. Consider the fiasco of the Icelandic eruptions and the false flow modelling closing down huge areas of safe airspace or the Bird flue with the Government buying up 2 billion in Tamiflu with people panicked into thinking that tens of thousands would die
In the end it turned out as a normal flu
Think of the drugs promoted by the huge drug companies considered safe and decades later found to be unsafe or Government health advice about turning

Too many vested interests in science and too many scientists employed to feed those vested interests so the public become suspicious take global warming ?

Electricity is so unseen an energy that naturally people will question that deeming something safe is perpetuated by self interest and big money

I am sure property prices under power cables are far less and not just for the eyesore



People have always mistrusted science.

Many years ago I used to do repairs of household appliances in my spare time. An elderly lady who lived nearby asked me if I could fix her vacuum cleaner, which I did. When I took it back to her house, and went to test it, I saw that every 13 A outlet had a plug in it, many of them with no leads attached. I asked her why and she replied "well, it's to stop the electricity leaking out, isn't it?".

The problem with science isn't the science itself, but the reporting of it by non-scientists. Scientists will always, without fail, couch something observed, but not proven, in terms that make it clear that what has been observed is a correlation, not proof, when writing papers. Sadly, journalists seem incapable of separating correlation from causation, so very frequently misreport research findings.

It's human nature to want to know the cause of things; just look at the speculation frenzy that goes on here every time there is an air accident. Unfortunately, science often doesn't come up with definite causal links, just strong correlations that suggest there may be a link. This then gets manipulated by the media into a story.

Statisticians have the same problem. For example, there is a strong correlation between gun crime and skin colour in some countries. The media often assume that there is a causal link; ie: black skin = more gun crime. The reality is that it's far more complex, and if you correlate average income with gun crime you find that being poor = more gun crime. Misusing correlation in this way is dangerous, especially near politicians, who like nothing better than seizing on things like this to "prove" a point. The reality is that the politicians are not "proving" anything, they are just highlighting a particular data set and drawing a possibly false causation from it.

ShyTorque
27th Sep 2016, 11:15
I once stood with my sons, close to the HT cables running past the eastern corner at Castle Combe motor racing circuit. It began to rain heavily and a number of us holding umbrellas had to move shortly afterwards because we were getting continuous electric shocks.

Seeing as we are organisms with bodies controlled by electricity, it wouldn't surprise me one jot if there was some long term effect on health. I've also seen first hand what happens if a live HT cable breaks and drops to the ground.

No way would I live under a set of them.

Pace
27th Sep 2016, 11:41
The science is limited to what we know now if the science was anywhere near complete people would not die of Cancer or the terrible diseases that inflict us.

Research funded mainly by the Multi $ billion drug companies all have profit as a goal and it suits them not to find cures but to sell drugs to keep people going for life.
Sadly most research is by the drug companies there is no profit in cures only to the Governments who have to pay for the ills of these people

Fracking is another with Labour claiming to ban it completely while the fracking companies will claim its safe and harmless and produce scientific evidence funded by them to prove the point.

Electricity is claimed to be safe but do we really know ? I doubt it

I have a regular argument with an atheist friend who always demands that if there is anything after life to scientifically prove it. My answer is always the same. We don't know and science cannot prove it as it is too limited in knowledge to do so

We know a lot more nowadays but sadly the tip of an iceberg in science

oldpax
27th Sep 2016, 12:41
I worked in the power industry for over 45 years and all on operations.exposed almost every day to 400kv switchyards and accessories and also in Egypt on 500kv switchyards and I still feel ok other than the usual aches of old age!!!Was a guinea pig in Saudi for live line testing with one of the early hot poles which I demonstrated on a 200kv live transformer,yes I was shaking and sweating a bit!!!

ETOPS
27th Sep 2016, 12:54
The new undersea cable from Deeside to Hunterston is 385km long but DC using converters.

Home | Western Link | National Grid & Scottish Power (http://www.westernhvdclink.co.uk/)

As an aside, the project is touted as being a link to deliver Scottish wind power generated electricity to England/Wales but as the cabe will be bi-directional the engineers reckon it will send Welsh nuclear generated power to Scotland on calm days :hmm:

VP959
27th Sep 2016, 13:02
The science is limited to what we know now if the science was anywhere near complete people would not die of Cancer or the terrible diseases that inflict us.

Research funded mainly by the Multi $ billion drug companies all have profit as a goal and it suits them not to find cures but to sell drugs to keep people going for life.
Sadly most research is by the drug companies there is no profit in cures only to the Governments who have to pay for the ills of these people

Fracking is another with Labour claiming to ban it completely while the fracking companies will claim its safe and harmless and produce scientific evidence funded by them to prove the point.

Electricity is claimed to be safe but do we really know ? I doubt it

I have a regular argument with an atheist friend who always demands that if there is anything after life to scientifically prove it. My answer is always the same. We don't know and science cannot prove it as it is too limited in knowledge to do so

We know a lot more nowadays but sadly the tip of an iceberg in science
Science isn't limited by what we know now at all. What is limited by what we know now is the outcome of scientific research, which is very often badly, or simply wrongly, reported. I was a scientist for my entire career and the biggest single problem scientists have is communicating effectively. Journo's (excepting the staff of peer-reviewed scientific journals) always want it "dumbed down", and when something gets "dumbed down" it ends up being wrong and the careful caveats that the researchers will have included get left out.

There is a great deal we don't know at all, some things we can guess at but have nothing but unusual correlations or observations to support and a great deal we do know beyond any doubt. I doubt anyone would ever be so bold as to claim that "electricity is safe", given its proven ability to kill, both by disrupting nerve impulses, and hence muscle control, and its ability to create great heat and fires.

Electromagnetic radiation is both safe, and essential for life, and lethal to life, depending on its frequency and magnitude. Often the distinction between beneficial and harmful electromagnetic radiation is pretty small. For example, we need regular exposure to wavelengths around those of sunlight to survive, both because these wavelengths form the energy source for all life on Earth and because our skin needs them in order to synthesise Vitamin D which our liver and kidneys activate and regulate. However, excessive exposure to sunlight causes harm, ranging from sunburn to cancers.

Getting back to power cables, they do emit electromagnetic radiation at a very low frequency (50 Hz, where the lowest frequency in visible light is around 430,000,000,000,000 Hz and a microwave oven runs at around 245,000,000,000 Hz). The potential to cause harm is linked closely to frequency and power, specifically the potential for heating of something or someone and the potential for disruption of our DNA. The latter effect is dominant at very high frequencies (the ultraviolet end of the sunlight spectrum, for example), the former is dominant at lower frequencies (the microwave oven effect). Electromagnetic heating of tissue at 50 Hz is, to intents and purposes, non-existent, as the power levels needed massively exceed those from even the largest power supply cables.

The question of proof is always a vexing one in science, as it is impossible to prove a negative. This means that someone can follow the normal process of having an hypothesis, doing experiments to prove or disprove that hypothesis and sometimes not get any evidence either way. Proving something is safe is just such an example. It is relatively easy to show that something is unsafe, but impossible to prove that it is absolutely safe, beyond any doubt. For example, dihydrogen monoxide (water) is toxic to life. It has an LD50 (a dose that if ingested will kill 50% of those exposed to it) of around 6 litres for an average adult. Most people would assume that water is safe, but scientifically speaking it has been proven to be unsafe and toxic.

The way regulators get around issues where safety cannot be proven, is often to adopt the Precautionary Principle. In essence this means making an assumption that something has a limit, beyond which it may be harmful, based on our knowledge at that time. This errs on the side of safety, and probably (inadvertently) creates as much fear of harm as it is intended to prevent, but we have yet to come up with a better way of managing suspected, but unquantified, risks.

Fareastdriver
27th Sep 2016, 14:22
Did the thread starter ever buy the place that he opened the thread about.

yellowtriumph
27th Sep 2016, 15:04
I worked in the power industry for over 45 years and all on operations.exposed almost every day to 400kv switchyards and accessories and also in Egypt on 500kv switchyards and I still feel ok other than the usual aches of old age!!!Was a guinea pig in Saudi for live line testing with one of the early hot poles which I demonstrated on a 200kv live transformer,yes I was shaking and sweating a bit!!!
We used a faraday cage to work on some live 400KVac test installations.

Well someone else did, 'no way Jose' were you going to get me in it, no matter how well founded the scientific principle. I could feel me pubes bristling on the ground!

onetrack
27th Sep 2016, 15:06
Did the thread starter ever buy the place that he opened the thread about.
We don't know. It's likely he did, and he's probably dead. He would have died because a car crashed through his bedroom. :)

https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.4908363,-1.5690316,3a,75y,105.16h,92.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sayELVo-D4n8IPhIxCjr1-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Geordie_Expat
27th Sep 2016, 15:16
Stephen Fry once made the point on QI that virtually the only profession that will say "We just don't know" is a scientist (and if it is on QI it must be true):p


Edited to add: hadn't seen vp959's post before I posted this but kinda confirms the point.

Pace
27th Sep 2016, 15:33
A bit like our referendum where different claims were made over different things and posted as fact the public get confused and when confused rebel and vote on instinct
My instinct is I wouldn't want to live under power lines reassurances by experts or not

Too many times we are told something is safe for only twenty years later to be told sorry old chap the advice we gave then isn't quite as safe as we thought sorry about the Cancer old chap

VP959
27th Sep 2016, 15:35
Stephen Fry once made the point on QI that virtually the only profession that will say "We just don't know" is a scientist (and if it is on QI it must be true):p


Edited to add: hadn't seen vp959's post before I posted this but kinda confirms the point.
Stephen Fry was absolutely right!

The problem is that the media won't accept that as an answer, so draw conclusions that were never drawn by the scientist, or more likely the team, that briefed them or wrote a paper.

handsfree
27th Sep 2016, 15:38
I would quite happily live in a house under 400kV cables. There's
been numerous studies done and nothing has shown there to be
anything to worry about.
However I wouldn't buy a house under 400kV cables as this
thread amply demonstrates that re-selling the house could prove
a little difficult.
Especially if the next study showed there was something to worry about :uhoh:

onetrack
27th Sep 2016, 15:41
Well, according to the online records, someone purchased the house in May 2014 for the bargain price of 420,000. That's a whole lot less than it changed hands for in 2005, when it sold for 499,000.
Has there been a general downward trend in housing prices around Warwickshire since 2005? - or is it the HT power lines, that have brought on the loss for the previous owner?

The HT powerlines are quite a reasonable distance from the house, it's not like they're only metres from it.
The initial asking price was "offers over 500,000", so there's quite a discrepancy between the starting price and the final sale price - and it seems that it took around 18 mths to sell.
I notice the agents very carefully ensured the power lines were not visible in any of the photos!

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36406582.html

blue up
27th Sep 2016, 15:55
Did the thread starter ever buy the place that he opened the thread about.
We don't know. It's likely he did, and he's probably dead. He would have died because a car crashed through his bedroom.

https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.49083...7i13312!8i6656Looking at a more recent image of the house it looks like they built a wall to keep cars from crashing into the house. Also, there is a TVR, a Landrover, a motorbike and a pram in the image. Must be a pilot living there.

VP959
27th Sep 2016, 16:00
FWIW, I'd not buy a house near HV power lines, nothing to do with risk, just that they look awful, tend to create a low frequency hum that can be annoying on a quiet night and also because the electric field near them can give unpleasant effects when passing underneath.

I remember flying into a small grass strip in North Yorkshire (Husthwaite? - can't remember), years ago, where you had to fly under HV cables that crossed the threshold when landing on one of the runways. The electric field strength was such that it could produce a fair static potential difference across a wooden aeroplane, and it was fairly common to get a slight tingle through the controls.

Pace
27th Sep 2016, 16:33
Near My old town was a valley and near the restaurant there a collection of working Victorian machines like what the Butler saw on rotating cards etc

One machine was an electric Shock machine. Apparently Old ladies would put in their money, grab two handles and frizzle themselves too bits :E

The Old men too believing it was a cure for all manner of ills including performance in the Bedroom

Who Knows maybe being under these cables may be beneficial ? Anyone know whether people living under these cables notice hair regrowth if their balding ? :E

SpringHeeledJack
27th Sep 2016, 17:32
There were studies done years ago that showed a worrying occurrence of clusters of blood cancers next to and/or close to HT power lines, more in children than adults. Perhaps the developing cells in the children were more susceptible to the effects of the EMF's ? I remember being told in the 80's how the USSR banned all conurbations close to/under HT power lines as their scientists had deemed them detrimental to life, and that this ban had commenced at the end of the 1950's. As already mentioned we are all different and some people are affected by electricity and EMF's in a negative way, others less so. On the recommendation of a friend, a few years back I had my blood checked for parasites using a dark field microscope. Whilst looking through said microscope, with my blood cells in view, my mobile telephone started ringing in my jacket pocket a good 3m away. The strange thing was that the cells (red) started clumping together and became lethargic. The practitioner said that that was normal and how blah, blah, blah. Who knows, but it does make you wonder how the delicate electrical circuits within the human organism are affected by all the modern technology, when for the last 100,000 years the only electricity experienced was courtesy of an angry sky.

yellowtriumph
27th Sep 2016, 19:07
Well, according to the online records, someone purchased the house in May 2014 for the bargain price of 420,000. That's a whole lot less than it changed hands for in 2005, when it sold for 499,000.
Has there been a general downward trend in housing prices around Warwickshire since 2005? - or is it the HT power lines, that have brought on the loss for the previous owner?

The HT powerlines are quite a reasonable distance from the house, it's not like they're only metres from it.
The initial asking price was "offers over 500,000", so there's quite a discrepancy between the starting price and the final sale price - and it seems that it took around 18 mths to sell.
I notice the agents very carefully ensured the power lines were not visible in any of the photos!

4 bedroom detached house for sale in Park Lane Cottage, Fillongley, CV7 (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36406582.html)
Looks to me that the first photo was taken by someone sitting atop the nearest pylon. (If only I knew how to post a smiley).

G-CPTN
27th Sep 2016, 19:30
The OP was early 2014, so the sale mentioned could well have been the OP person (or someone else who was also unimpressed by the presence of the pylons).


One pylon is just visible on the edge of photograph 13.

2012 listing @575,000:-http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-35167615.html

G-CPTN
27th Sep 2016, 20:49
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4909619,-1.5687292,3a,15y,195.21h,86.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smbOqaXJK38uq-oy8lfFy6A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

radeng
27th Sep 2016, 23:06
High power HF fields do have an effect. I know a guy of 90 who worked for very many years at very high power multiple transmitter HF radio sites. He has a severe dislike of buying any alcoholic drink, but he is more than happy to drink any and all that which is bought for him. If visiting, he is incapable of helping with clearing up after a meal or washing up. He can - just about - make his own bed when visiting , but only because if he doesn't, it doesn't get made.....He is more than happy to help drink his host's whisky, brandy, beer, wine etc...

All caused by exposure to EM radiation!

onetrack
28th Sep 2016, 00:16
radeng - Didn't you forget to tell us, as well, about the terrible ageing effects of EM radiation, on this gent?
I've little doubt, after so many years of strong EM radiation, his skin must be thin and wrinkled, he must look frail, and no doubt he's not as steady on his pins, as he was before he was radiated! :)