Qantas now operating A320's

[Capt Kremin]

So it seems.

On the Airbus website the following spreadsheet can be downloaded.

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/backstage/orders_deliveries_table/November_2013_-_Airbus_Orders_Deliveries.xls

On the Orders tab QF can be seen to have ordered 179 A320's delivered 66 and operate 5 of them.

Operate 5 A320's... QF?

Perhaps the answer is on the 2013 deliveries tab. When an aircraft is delivered the airline and if necessary the subsidiary is named. Qantas (Jetstar Australia) (JQAsia) (JQ Japan) etc. JQ HK has no aircraft allocated.

From October 2013 on there are four A320s that go just to Qantas. Pictures have already been taken of JQ aircraft in storage in TLS, anecdotally there are at least 7 of them, possibly more.

As QF already owns 16 A320's and leases them to JQ, is it a stretch to believe that QF has bought these aircraft outright?

Questions:

Who paid for them?
Where is the cost allocated?
Who is paying the storage costs?
How many more are on the way to a similar fate?

With 179 A320's ordered with 108 still to come, and 14 787's coming to Jetstar, is it any wonder that mainline is being starved of capital for replacement aircraft?

[Capt Kremin]

JQ HK A320s stored in TLS mid-december.

5685 F-WXAB (B-KJB) Jetstar Hong Kong
5725 F-WXAC (B-KJC) Jetstar Hong Kong
5738 F-WXAD (B-KJD) Jetstar Hong Kong
5835 F-WWIF (B-KJE) Jetstar Hong Kong
5850 F-WWBP (B-KJF) Jetstar Hong Kong

B-KJA was delivered to Jetstar as VH-VFT.
B-KJG was delivered to Jetstar as VH-XHI
B-KJH delivered to Jetstar as VH-XHK

[waren9]

airbus list prices 2013 here (http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/corporate-information/key-documents/?docID=14849&eID=dam_frontend_push)

[SOPS]

And would I be right in saying, you can't simply 'store' an aircraft? By that, I mean, you can't just shut the doors, put it under a tree and say see you later. There must be some upkeep involved I am sure. Who is paying for that?

[Capt Kremin]

Is VH-VFT actually the aircraft referred to in this post? In which case make it six.

http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/528014-alans-not-happy-56.html#post8209044

[Capt Kremin]

VH-XFK... photo posted 3 days ago.

Photos: Airbus A320-232 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Jetstar-Airways/Airbus-A320-232/2373548/L/&sid=66f41e22ddf8ca266b4b57fdbfa6a0b0)

Make that 7.

[Capt Kremin]

Neither VH-VFT nor VH-XFK return any photo hits on any planespotter websites.

6 confirmed, 2 probables. USD 700 million sitting around tarmacs somewhere.:ugh::ugh:

[600ft-lb]

As can be viewed on the CASA register of aircraft, some Jetstar A320's are owned by Qantas, some are owned by leasing companies.

My guess is, Jetstar(Qantas) is choosing to end leasing arrangements with some of their A320's and replace them with brand new Jetstar HongKong, Qantas owned, A320's. That's where the 'flexibility' comes into play. It's more then likely not what they wanted to do but it is an easy option for them to take.

Jetstar HongKong(failure), Japan(failure), Vietnam(failure) and Asia's(barely break even) investment in their 40-50 airframes would more then pay for the Qantas airframes that have been deferred/cancelled/retired and not replaced, and more then make up the 1/6th of group revenue that the spin doctors say Jetstar franchises produce.

[CamelSquadron]

VH-VFT is flying Jetstar domestic routes.

[CamelSquadron]

"Vietnam(failure)"

Interesting because Jetstar Pacific is finally showing signs of being a success. It has made a profit in 2013.

Some press from today:
"In 2013, Jetstar Pacific served 2 million passengers with the aircraft use efficiency up by 37 percent and the seat occupancy rate of over 90 percent, the ideal rates for any airlines in the world. Jetstar Pacific plans to receive five more aircraft in 2014, by that time it would have 11 aircraft to be in service."

[swh]

If memory serves correct the Qantas Group also purchased 717s, F100s, and Dash-8s in recent times. They appear in the shareholders reports.

[blow.n.gasket]

CamelSquadron
"Vietnam(failure)"

Interesting because Jetstar Pacific is finally showing signs of being a success. It has made a profit in 2013.

Some press from today:
"In 2013, Jetstar Pacific served 2 million passengers with the aircraft use efficiency up by 37 percent and the seat occupancy rate of over 90 percent, the ideal rates for any airlines in the world. Jetstar Pacific plans to receive five more aircraft in 2014, by that time it would have 11 aircraft to be in service."




Another Amazing business strategy unravelling???


Australian airline Qantas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas) was in talks with the State Capital Investment Corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Capital_Investment_Corporation) (SCIC), who was then managing the government's stake in Pacific Airlines, about a possible investment in the carrier.[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-20)[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-21) Three months later, Qantas agreed on a minority stake in Pacific as part of its plan to expand its low-cost operations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-cost_carrier) through Jetstar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar) in Southeast Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asia). The deal was finalised in July when Qantas acquired an 18% stake for US$30 million, with provisions to eventually increase the stake to 30%; SCIC held the majority of the remaining shares. The deal would see the carrier, now restructured into a low-cost airline, launch flights to the surrounding countries, and possibly southern Europe, with a fleet of 30 Airbus A320s by 2014; it would be renamed Jetstar Pacific Airlines in May 2008.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-22)[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-23)[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-24)[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-25)
As a low-cost carrier, JPA commenced flights to Nha Trang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nha_Trang) and Da Nang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da_Nang).[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-26) Due to high fuel costs, Nha Trang was suspended, and the airline lost $22 million during the first ten months of 2008. Passenger service launches to Bangkok and Siem Reap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siem_Reap) were deferred, and SCIC stated the airline would need US$35 million to operate in 2009.[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-27)[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-28)
Jetstar Pacific embarked on its fleet modernisation plan in 2009, as it replaced several Boeing 737-400s with leased A320s. It made its first profit (US$1.1 million) in July that year after long periods of losses. The airline expanded its domestic market share as it transported more than 1.5 million passengers in the first half of 2009.[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-JPAbranding-29)[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-CAPA_brand-30) Despite these developments, the airline encountered branding issues when the CAAV in October decreed that it must replace its Jetstar brand and logo with a new identity; the CAAV cited possible consumer confusion with Jetstar Airways and that a foreign airline could potentially exploit the Jetstar Pacific's branding to advertise it products. Later that year, CEO Luong Hoai Nam suddenly quit the airline having served since 2004.[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-JPAbranding-29)[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-CAPA_brand-30)[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-31)
In January 2010, clarifications about Nam surfaced when Vietnamese authorities reportedly detained the former CEO and prevented COO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_operating_officer) Daniela Masilli and CFO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_financial_officer) Tristan Freeman from leaving the country. This was part of an investigation into fuel hedging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_hedging) losses, which reportedly had cost the airline US$31 million.[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-32)[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-33)[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-34) Qantas responded to the complication by replacing the two administrators.[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-35) Due to the investigation into fuel-hedging allegations, growth plans at the airline were stalled.[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-CAPA_JPAoutlook-36)
Funding issues persisted through 2011. In addition to the fuel price fluctuations, compounded by the government-sanctioned fare cap, JPA had to address lease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_lease) and maintenance fees for its aircraft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_maintenance).[37] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-37) During the year, reports indicated that VAC would re-assume control of the carrier; according to Saigon Tiep Thi, the SCIC would transfer 70% of its shares to Vietnam Airlines. However, the Jetstar Group denied such speculation.[38] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-38)[39] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-39) On 16 January 2012, the Vietnamese government confirmed the allegations by Saigon Tiep Thi by decreeing a transfer of SCIC shares to Vietnam Airlines, which took place in February.[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-40)[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-VietnamNet-41) The transfer brought forward plans by Vietnam Airlines to have its own LCC by 2014.[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-CAPA_JPAoutlook-36) As part of its current expansion plan, it is intended that Jetstar Pacific will have up to 15 Airbus A320s by the end of 2015.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Pacific_Airlines#cite_note-2013-01interview-1)

[blow.n.gasket]

What ever happened to this amazing business venture ?




Jetstar and AirAsia Form World First Alliance







Sydney, 06 January 2010

In a world first for low cost airlines, Jetstar and AirAsia announced today they would form a new alliance that would reduce costs, pool expertise and ultimately result in cheaper fares for both carriers.
The alliance brings together the Asia Pacific's two leading low cost, low fare carriers and will focus on a range of major cost reduction opportunities and potential savings - to the benefit of customers throughout the region.
Key to the agreement is a proposed joint specification for the next generation of narrow body aircraft, that will best meet the needs of the low fare customer of the future. Both airline groups will also investigate opportunities for the joint procurement of aircraft.
Qantas Airways Chief Executive Officer Alan Joyce, Jetstar Chief Executive Officer Bruce Buchanan and AirAsia Group Chief Executive Officer Datuk Seri Tony Fernandes finalised the agreement in Sydney today.
Qantas Airways Chief Executive Officer, Mr Alan Joyce, said the historic non-equity alliance would give Jetstar and AirAsia a natural advantage in one of the world's most competitive aviation markets.
"Jetstar and AirAsia offer unmatched reach in the Asia Pacific region, with more routes and lower fares than their main competitors, and this new alliance will enable them to maximise that scale," Mr Joyce said.
"Just as both carriers have pioneered the development of the low cost, long haul airline model, today's announcement breaks the mould of traditional airline alliances and establishes a new model for achieving reduced costs and increased efficiency.
"The aviation market in Asia is a growth market, and has proven resilient over the past 12 months, despite the tough operating environment, with significant growth in passenger numbers forecast in the region.
"This partnership will ensure that both airlines can capitalise on these growth opportunities."
The agreement includes the development of cooperation in areas such as:
* Future fleet specification - both carriers will investigate opportunities for joint procurement of the next generation of narrow body aircraft. A collective goal is to achieve cost reductions in terms of order volume and influencing design specification to deliver more efficient, low cost operations;
* Airport passenger and ramp handling services - developing cooperative arrangements for the provision of passenger and ground handling in Australia and within Asia at overlapping airports by leveraging scale;
* Shared aircraft parts and 'pooling' - pooling inventory arrangements for aircraft components and spare parts;
* Procurement - Joint procurement, with a focus on engineering and maintenance supplies and services, with Jetstar maintaining its existing use of and commitment to Australian facilities; and
* Passenger disruption arrangements - reciprocal arrangements for passenger management (i.e. support for passenger disruptions and recovery onto the other airline's service) across both the AirAsia and Jetstar flying networks.
Jetstar Chief Executive Officer, Mr Bruce Buchanan, said the cooperative approach was a result of the two organisations' strong focus on costs.
"Jetstar and AirAsia are passionate about offering consistently low fares," Mr Buchanan said.
"Year on year, Jetstar is reducing its controllable costs by up to five per cent annually. This agreement will enable a further step-change in our cost position and ensure sustainable low fares.
"In coming years Jetstar and AirAsia want to work with manufacturers on the next generation aircraft to ensure it best meets our business requirements."

AirAsia Group CEO Datuk Seri Tony Fernandes hailed the agreement as another step in the airline's strategy to maintain its global leadership as the lowest-cost airline operator.
"AirAsia strongly believes the strategic tie-up will help the airline maintain its position as the lowest-cost airline in the world despite rising costs associated with the fledgling global economic recovery," Mr Fernandes said.
"It is key for us to keep our costs as low as possible. This is what enables us to provide the low, low fares that our guests have enjoyed, and will continue to enjoy."
Mr Fernandes said a common aircraft type specification in terms of the next generation narrow body offering should be proactively pursued by both airlines because of the many efficiencies it would bring.

"With joint purchasing power it means that we can potentially work with airline manufacturers on the right configuration and design of an aircraft specifically for AirAsia and that best suits our operational needs for the future," Mr Fernandes said.
"A strategic arrangement with Jetstar focussed on investigation of operational synergies is a logical development for us. AirAsia and Jetstar share the same philosophy of low cost, low fares and high quality customer service.
"There is clear sense in finding the right cost solution for a range of airline and associated services which support AirAsia's expanding route network."
The two largest airlines in the Asia Pacific in revenue terms, Jetstar and AirAsia jointly earned nearly AUD3 billion in revenues in the 2009 financial year.
* These arrangements are, where required, subject to regulatory approval.
Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (4000)
Email:

[Australopithecus]

So after QF losing $41 million so far in investment and 18% of the trading losses, plus millions more in legal and admin costs Jetstar Pacific is starting to make a profit? Do you really think that an 18% share in any profit is ever going to even cover the cost of money so far sunk? Idiots.

[roger_ramjet]

Great shot of XFK - goes to show you can store an aircraft until it's needed.

[sys 4]

the thing that you cant store is the cost of capital.Moodys have given Qantas the appropriate rating today.JUNK.

[virgindriver]

Ah, good ole Jetstar Chief Executive Officer Bruce Buchanan.

I still wonder the reason for his sudden departure and why he hasn't been heard from since.

[FYSTI]

Ah yes, his silence is remarkable... its almost as if he's still on the payroll ;)

[Potsie Weber]

Ah yes, his silence is remarkable... its almost as if he's still on the payroll

30,000 secrets a week to.........trek the Himalaya, cruise the Whitsundays?

[Capt Kremin]

Jetstar Hong Kong grounds 7 new Airbus planes as licence approval delayed | South China Morning Post (http://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/1401347/jetstar-hong-kong-grounds-7-new-airbus-planes-licence-approval)

[Going Nowhere]

VH-XHK now also back onto the French register.

[theheadmaster]

Meanwhile, Qantas is investigating using A320 on domestic mainline services...

[goodonyamate]

Another type for mainline. Awesome!! Then we can duplicate more roles!! Hell, lets have a 'Domestic A320 CP,HOFO,and a new fleet manager!! Bonuses all round!!

I dare say that A320's will be replacing 737's in the future anyway.....

[Toruk Macto]

Some time after the GFC I was chatting to a finance guy who had done a bit of work in the area of aircraft leasing and his comment was during the GFC and its aftermath their where only two types of planes leasing companies would get involved with . Something to do with they where the only two that airlines could still make money with when things where at there worst . They where the 777 and 320 .

[AnQrKa]

Toruk

Nice story but total BS.

[bankrunner]

Another type for mainline. Awesome!! Then we can duplicate more roles!! Hell, lets have a 'Domestic A320 CP,HOFO,and a new fleet manager!! Bonuses all round!!

Having as many types as possible worked a treat for Ansett. Looks like AJ did learn something after all when he was there :ok:

[AnQrKa]

"Having as many types as possible worked a treat for Ansett."

MOST legacy carriers operate several aircraft types. Many still operate many types.

QF has operated more aircraft types at one time than AN did in its closing stages and yes, the A320's will become domestic aircraft with roo's on the tail.

And a little wee sticker on the door.

[Popgun]

and yes, the A320's will become domestic aircraft with roo's on the tail.

And a little wee sticker on the door.

Genuine question: How will that be possible from an industrial point of view?

PG

[The Professor]

Genuine question, why should industrial matters stand in the way of business imperatives. QF is seeking radical change and will not exist in its present form without it.

[roger_ramjet]

Must have missed something - what does the wee little sticker say?

[Di_Vosh]

Must have missed something - what does the wee little sticker say?


"Operated by ..."



DIVOSH!

[Transition Layer]

"Operated by ..."

....."the lowest bidder" :yuk:

[Normasars]

Business 101 I'm afraid.

[goodonyamate]

Genuine question: How will that be possible from an industrial point of view?

It isn't. Not if it is going to be a QANTAS aircraft. Hence the reason we were hoping that Jitconnict would fall under the jurisdiction of FWA.

Genuine question, why should industrial matters stand in the way of business imperatives. QF is seeking radical change and will not exist in its present form without it.

Cool, I guess we can all just give in and volunteer for 1c/hr wages. Might as well do it in your job to, eh Professor?

[Ollie Onion]

If this is what Qantas wanted to do, how would you stop it. The aircraft could be crewed by Jetconnect pilots, Jetstar Pilots or even Jetstar New Zealand pilots.

Jetconnect could operate in Australia under the TTMRA, Jetstar and Jetstar NZ are both Australian AOC holders so could just take over the routes with Qantas coloured aircraft.

The point is, that Qantas has many options to remove work from mainline, this is why meaningful talks between the unions themselves and the unions and Qantas need to take place. I mean what hope do we have when the two main pilot unions won't even sit in a room together during the Jetstar EBA negotiations. We are all pretty my screwed by our own in fighting. I would say that Qantas has been very very successful in turning us all against each other.

[Keg]

It couldn't be the Qantas brand. The various awards are quite specific. That's why the 717 operation will always be Qantas Link. Change the name on the side of the aeroplane to Qantas and it becomes subject to the various Qantas awards.

So sure, they could operate the A320s under the link banner if they want to but I'm not sure they can have it as Qantas with an 'operated by' for australian domestic services.

[Boe787]

Perhaps this was the plan all along, order a truckload of A320s for the Jetstar expansion into Asia, announce Jetstar Hong Kong, knowing full well it could take a long time to finally get approval to operate,if ever, then the aircraft start getting delivered and parked,
once that becomes public knowledge, the Qantas group has a bunch of aeroplanes it needs to do something with, voila! repaint them red and get jetconnect crews to operate them domestically?

[Nassensteins Monster]

Perhaps this was the plan all along, order a truckload of A320s for the Jetstar expansion into Asia, announce Jetstar Hong Kong, knowing full well it could take a long time to finally get approval to operate,if ever, then the aircraft start getting delivered and parked,
once that becomes public knowledge, the Qantas group has a bunch of aeroplanes it needs to do something with, voila! repaint them red and get jetconnect crews to operate them domestically?

Except the market is already saturated. Yields are way down because Borghetti is forcing Joyce to add capacity at an unsustainable rate to maintain the line in the sand. Imagine dumping capacity into an already saturated market.

This would only make sense if the 738 fleet was downsized. Then the company runs contrary to its stated strategy of cost reduction through rationalising and simplifying the mainline Dom fleet.

And if the co. was to rapidly introduce A320s into Dom mainline they would run into issues regarding who would certify for them. There are a few guys with A320 licenses, but not nearly enough. And many of them are ex-Ansett with low time in the co. The rumour is compulsory redundancies aren't too far away, and the easy path for the co. is to "last in first out". So there go your ex-Ansett A320 licenses.

In its wisdom, QF Eng management has not trained sufficient engineers on A330s. So the scope for popping A330 licenced guys on A330 to A320 conversion courses and still retain sufficient license coverage on the line to certify for mainline A330s is very limited.

Unless I am missing something really obvious?

[waren9]

keg if qf pilots have scope clauses regarding qf flying how come jetconnect?

are they not pure qf services, and dont they have that wee sticker on the door?

[goodonyamate]

jitconnict are not allowed to operate domestically in Australia. So what you say is true, in that it is purely QF flying. But the sham is only allowed to operate return flights from NZ...

[maui]

[Yields are way down because Borghetti is forcing Joyce to add capacity at an unsustainable rate to maintain the line in the sand.]


Perhaps you could explain exactly how it is that "Borghetti is forcing" Joyce to maintain an unsustainable and idiotic arbitrary share of the available capacity. Joyce or Dixon drew the line, no one or nothing, other than inflated and unwarranted ego, is "forcing" anyone to do anything.


Maui

[Nassensteins Monster]

Sure.

Dixon drew the line in the sand, and Joyce is defending it in accordance with the stated strategy of maintaining economies of scale as per the S curve in a synergistic harmony of complimentary businesses to maximise... blah blah blah.

Ergo, Joyce by virtue of sticking to the 65% line in the sand is "forced" to respond to the competitors moves.

no one or nothing, other than inflated and unwarranted ego, is "forcing" anyone to do anything.

For the record, I think we're in furious agreement here.

Kind of reminds me of this. Except QF is getting hit with its own stick. :sad:

[maui]

Ergo, Joyce by virtue of sticking to the 65% line in the sand is "forced" to respond to the competitors moves.


You make my point. It is not Borghetti's action, but Joyce's own stupidity, hubris, call it what you will, that is the driver.


Maui

[Australopithecus]

...Joyce's KPIs...:ugh:

[mcgrath50]

Perhaps this was the plan all along, order a truckload of A320s for the Jetstar expansion into Asia, announce Jetstar Hong Kong, knowing full well it could take a long time to finally get approval to operate,if ever, then the aircraft start getting delivered and parked,
once that becomes public knowledge, the Qantas group has a bunch of aeroplanes it needs to do something with, voila! repaint them red and get jetconnect crews to operate them domestically?

A perfect case for 'if you suspect it could be a conspiracy or a stuff up, it's more likely to be the stuff up every time!'

[Keg]

keg if qf pilots have scope clauses regarding qf flying how come jetconnect?

are they not pure qf services, and dont they have that wee sticker on the door?


What I was referring to is not a scope clause. It's simply a line that says that Qantas domestic flying in in Australia will be subject to the SH EA.

[Going Nowhere]

What if they call it something else?

QantasConnect or similar?

Does that line cover that as well?

[Keg]

No that was my point. If they choose to operate those A320s not with QF pilots then they can't call it Qantas. Qantas Link, Qantas connect, etc, etc, but not Qantas.

[spelling_nazi]

How are the 717's allowed to operate in qf colours domestically whilst not under the sh award then? Due the "link" tag?

[outside limits]

Why not use the Qantas pilots on LWOP at JQ who are currently flying the A320. There is one chap in particular that has been vocal on QREWROOM who might put his hand up!

[Keg]

How are the 717's allowed to operate in qf colours domestically whilst not under the sh award then? Due the "link" tag?


Yes. Were QF to re-tag them as a Qantas flight rather than a Q Link flight then from my understanding, the provisions of the SH EA would apply.

[AnQrKa]

There are ways around all of this, you need to look bigger picture.

[waren9]

if there was a rat on the tail and the word qantas in there somewhere d'you think the average punter would notice?

[Keg]

Nope. They haven't cared with Qantas Link (NJS and Cobham) over the last bunch of years, they're not going to care about it on the side of a bunch of A320s if it happens in the future.

[The The]

Don't forget the "Statement of Commitment" in the QF SH Agreement. It's been in there for over 10yrs and states the company's preference to work with existing employees in new ventures and also that the company would never use one group of employees to the detriment of another group.

Yeah right!:ugh:

[CaptCloudbuster]

the Company agrees on the preferability of working together with the Association and existing staff to find agreed solutions which are the best balance between commercial imperatives and consequences for people involved. and

The Company clearly states its preference and commitment to work with the Association and existing airline staff to implement whatever changes are necessary for the future viability of the Company and its people

Meanwhile "In the news"

QantasLink’s B717s will offer increased services between Tasmania and the mainland, and Cobham, QantasLink’s specialist B717 operator will also be recruiting 30 cabin crew and 15 pilots to be based in Hobart.:rolleyes: