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View Full Version : Cars registrations. Who is to be trusted (to tell the truth)?


alicopter
7th Jan 2014, 20:54
This morning, good news, the economy is blooming, spring is in the air (?), sun is out and all is well. As I was driving through the Industrial Estate, the radio told me the number of cars sold was through the roof so I looked on my left and noticed the unusual number of cars aligned on this large VW dealearship I happen to know (my daughter's Eos comes from there and I have been there quite a lot since she's had water ingress problems they have trouble getting rid of!!!). Not one space empty... Good, they are back in business thought I...!!! and tonight this...
Car registrations 'painting too positive a picture' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10557113/Car-registrations-painting-too-positive-a-picture.html)
Who to believe?

Effluent Man
7th Jan 2014, 21:27
Smoke and mirrors.I have been in the MotorTrade since 1977 and I can honestly say that things have never been at such a low ebb.Last year I diversified into another business because things were so slow.If they are selling those cars you can be sure that it's just a metal moving exercise.I have heard of new cars being sold for an £80 profit.

G-CPTN
7th Jan 2014, 21:32
There's nothing new.

I used to work for a large manufacturer of vehicles.

When stocks built up (you could tell as they were parked both sides of the factory access roads rather than disappearing to the dealers) the cars supplied to managers were swapped (at one stage I was getting a new car every three months). These 'management cars' were sought after by customers (especially when they were low mileage) and sold quickly.
Another method was for dealers to register their stock which were then offered with zero miles at discounted prices - something which is happening now - some dealers are offering prices which are nearly half of list price.

Of course all these vehicles reflect in 'new car registrations' which gives the public a sense of success, and, if dealers are offering substantial discounts the customers grab at these offers 'whilst stocks last' - when, in fact, there is unlimited stock.

Been going on for at least 40 years that I know of.

I bought a new car in 1976 for my father-in-law at management discount price (lawfully) as there were fields and fields of unsold vehicles.

Check your local dealer websites.

Ford UK Promotions - Official Online Vehicle Promotions from Ford UK (http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/CarPromotions)

Car Finance | Deals & Offers on Cars and Vans - Vauxhall Motors UK (http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/offers-finance/cars_offers.html)

Effluent Man
7th Jan 2014, 21:42
I used to buy those cars at auction.Montegos and Maestros were available with virtually no mileage at 50% or so of new list price for six month old cars.

cargosales
7th Jan 2014, 22:28
A few months ago the missus went and got herself a nice '13 plate. Pre-registered by the dealer and with 26 miles on the clock. 35% off list price plus a host of worthwhile things like three years parts and labour servicing, free Satnav etc. There is serious discounting going on out there!

And she now gets 60+mpg on her commute too, so it's costing less to run than the car it replaced :ok:

Less impressive was the upholstery 'protection' pack they threw in , and which is supposed to prevent any staining but when she [email protected] herself it left a huge skid mark on the seat! :ooh:
She claims it was chocolate that she dropped and hadn't noticed because it was dark. Given the vast number of empty wrappers in the car I suppose the dealer must have believed her because when she took it back demanding they sort it out they did a free steam clean and re-treatment

CS

G-CPTN
7th Jan 2014, 22:40
I replaced my 13-year-old (reliable) car last year.
I was interested in a nearly-new example, but was offered a new one for £5000 off list price - making it cheaper than their 18 month-old stock (and zero miles and full warranty). £300 for 'free' servicing and warranty extended to five years.

And I got a good price for my old car (privately) from the first person to view it (and there were dozens who followed enquiring about it).

Hyph
7th Jan 2014, 22:59
I have heard of new cars being sold for an £80 profit.

I got one of those for Mrs Hyph a few years ago.

I don't like paying too much for things, or allowing people I care about to do so either. For some reason, I enjoy the haggling process - even if the car isn't for me. I have bought several new cars, run them for a while and sold them for more than I paid. Cheap motoring! I will act as your buying agent for a 25% commission on anything I save you off list price. :E

In this particular case, I had the dealer on the ropes and was squeezing as much as I possibly could out of him. I knew most of the tricks, and was parrying every move the guy made. In the end, and clearly frustrated, the sales rep conceded defeat :ok: and brought out the sales manager. He clearly needed the sale - I'm guessing to hit some personal target, and within minutes I had him on the ropes too.

We were already at a ridiculous discount off list price and I was still squeezing. In the end, the manager asked if I really needed that last £50 off the price.

When I asked why, he told me that was all the profit they had left in the car. I asked if he would prove that, and he did.

He said if the £50 it was that important to me, I could have it - I had to let him keep it. We bought the car.

cargosales
7th Jan 2014, 23:39
I got one of those for Mrs Hyph a few years ago.

I don't like paying too much for things, or allowing people I care about to do so either. For some reason, I enjoy the haggling process - even if the car isn't for me. I have bought several new cars, run them for a while and sold them for more than I paid. Cheap motoring! I will act as your buying agent for a 25% commission on anything I save you off list price. :E

In this particular case, I had the dealer on the ropes and was squeezing as much as I possibly could out of him. I knew most of the tricks, and was parrying every move the guy made. In the end, and clearly frustrated, the sales rep conceded defeat :ok: and brought out the sales manager. He clearly needed the sale - I'm guessing to hit some personal target, and within minutes I had him on the ropes too.

We were already at a ridiculous discount off list price and I was still squeezing. In the end, the manager asked if I really needed that last £50 off the price.

When I asked why, he told me that was all the profit they had left in the car. I asked if he would prove that, and he did.

He said if the £50 it was that important to me, I could have it - I had to let him keep it. We bought the car.


Hyph, fair play to you but I do sometimes wonder if it's worth squeezing dealers quite so hard?

Maybe someone who knows more than I can comment more informatively? but you have to wonder if the service you subsequently get from dealers you squeezed till the pips squeaked is as good as that you get from those who made a bit of profit (or even a nice profit) out of the sale?

Would Mrs CS' dealers have been quite so willing to immediately steam clean the car if she'd beaten then up relentlessly on the last few quid? I'm not so sure but I'd be happy to be proved wrong..

CS

SawMan
8th Jan 2014, 00:31
Hyph, fair play to you but I do sometimes wonder if it's worth squeezing dealers quite so hard

CS

Absolutely. If their system were different, I might agree though. When demand is high, car makers manipulate and control the market to keep prices and profits high. Dealers and their sales staff reap cash by the bucket-fulls when this happens. They will not cut you a deal then though they try to make you think they are doing that. They are ruthless when the balance is on their side, so why treat them any differently when the balance is on your side?

Remember, treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. Or more plainly said, however others treat you is how they themselves should be treated. Gouge everything from them that you can while you can and hope the car will last until the scale is balanced on your side again :E

charliegolf
8th Jan 2014, 07:18
I recently bought a new Audi. The pricing was as transparent as it could be- what wasn't so clear was Audi the discounting regime which was closely matched to what wasn't selling as they'd like. I could've had between £2500-£4000 off some models, but not a penny off others. They needed to shift A4s and A6s, not the Q range or A5s which were doing well.

I made £1800 by buying 200 miles away (near my daughter, so no hardship), where the dealer took the hit, not Audi- the locals were not moving.

Ironically, my car was cheaper than the demonstrator they had outside due to supply chain problems- I waited 4 months. I was ok with that, it fitted my plans. They were adding a premium for not waiting for a less speced car.

CG

Deepest Norfolk
8th Jan 2014, 08:54
Agree re rip offs.

My local ******* dealer (I won't name them for obvious reasons) rips me off every time I drive in. Last time I took the car in to have a known design fault fixed (twice a year since new) they told me I needed two new tyres on the back as they both were badly out of shape and were dangerous. "Blimey", thought I, "best get that sorted." They quoted me an awful price so I decided to take the car to the garage where it was due to be MOTd the next week. Absolutely nothing wrong with either tyre.

Perviously when in for a service (I use the main dealer while the car is under warranty and for the "known fault" because the manufacturer pays 76% of the cost) they told me I needed all the disks and pads changing. The car was less than one year old at the time and I eventually changed them four years later.

This was two different dealers of the same well known car maker, so makes me thing there is a policy.

Needless to say, now it's out of warranty I don't go anywhere near them except twice a year to get the windows fixed when the control unit fails yet again.

DN

cockney steve
8th Jan 2014, 13:02
@ DN There's absolutely no reason why you should use a manufacturers' stealership...."tied" servicing was outlawed a long time ago...an "Indie" must comply with the Manufacturers' servicing and maintenance regime and some makers attempted to withold the necessary data...afaik, that's also out, as is the stealer's racket of a tied tool to reset service-lights.

It's acknowledged that new car-sales is not a profit-centre, -it merely creates income via the workshops, parts and accessories.

I really don't know why they listen to their fuxwit bean-counters that come up with these scams...it drives punters away.
around 1974 I had a Cortina estate, it had steering-judder at ~80 mph(indicated)...even on-car balancing wouldn't get rid of it....coincidentally, a service was due a few days after the warranty expired...even more coincidentally, there was a modified steering-coupling available...they refused to fit it under warranty, so lost at least 4 services a year from me.(company car, but the principle was at stake)

Don't know if it still goes on, but sometimes the mechanics work out a short-cut on a job....the number of Warranty claims on this job soars, as the stealers get paid "book time", not the actual time it takes.


Back in the day, the "land-crab" 1800 was engine-out to do a clutch....someone sussed that you could remove the battery-tray, disconnect mountings and tip the (transverse)unit sufficiently to do it in situ...."profit"was about 6 hours,plus transmission-oil., IIRC

after that, warranty -patterns were much more closely monitored. :}

Capetonian
8th Jan 2014, 13:14
In this regard, what happened to 'block exemption' which I thought allowed manufacturers not to supply diagnostic software to independent dealers? Or maybe I have it the wrong way round.

alicopter
8th Jan 2014, 13:26
Thanks, all these posts seem to be confirming the fact that once more we are being conned regarding figures... It looks like every little lie they can elaborate to prop up the Economy is "GO"...
Housing bubble? Yesterday I was making over £1100 a month of added value on my house!!! Today, I am getting much less and probably loosing... Unemployment? Someone tells me if we are welcoming East Europeeans to work in the UK, underpaid by private sector filling their pockets while Taxpayer is left with the much much bigger bill of benefits for "locals" on zero hours contracts...??? (isn't that fraud???) If companies can afford selling cars or other goods at discount prices at nil profit (how can they invest then or pay their share holders?), won't the wages of their employees have to come down somehow???? What is all this bullshiite they pour on us all the time? Who is taking the press seriously when they shoot themselves in the foot every single day by publishing absolute rubbish nobody believes. Like the american joker journalist of Newsweek writing about the fall of France, words after words of nonsense like €6 a litre of milk, free nappies, holidays in West Indies paid for by NHS, people taxed 75% of their earnings!!!! (Mind you, she herself should be paid by the NHS for having the whole french people laughing so much for the last two days...definitely a feel good factor.) I'll never again read Newsweek without thinking it's Mickey Mouse Monthly... Do they think we are stupid?
Edited to add that, (talking of stupid!) if someone could come up with a french word for "Entrepreneur", you are welcome to send it to the "Academie Francaise", they are desparate to fill this void in their language......

Capetonian
9th Jan 2014, 17:15
Like the american joker journalist of Newsweek writing about the fall of France, words after words of nonsense like €6 a litre of milk, free nappies, holidays in West Indies paid for by NHS, people taxed 75% of their earnings!!!! Seems the French don't like the truth. Are you not aware that the Comrades have just approved a 75% tax rate? The other statements may be hyperbole.

if someone could come up with a french word for "Entrepreneur", you are welcome to send it to the "Academie Francaise", they are desparate to fill this void in their language......
Yes, it's 'emigré'.

G-CPTN
9th Jan 2014, 19:23
I don't suppose that Rolls Royce sales figures (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25660986) are contrived . . .

or Bentley (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rolls-royce-v-bentley-rolls-chief-3003108), come to that . . .

ExSp33db1rd
9th Jan 2014, 19:36
And she now gets 60+mpg on her commute too, so it's costing less to run than the car it replaced

!!!!! Want one, can't even get that out of my motor bike. What is it, a Reliant Robin ?

vulcanised
9th Jan 2014, 19:38
A local dealer is advertising new Chevrolet models at half price.

Don't know whether that marque is good, bad, or indifferent?

OFSO
9th Jan 2014, 20:14
Want one, can't even get that out of my motor bike.

About the same mileage I get from my Ford Mondeo diesel, too on long journeys. Around town more like 50 mpg.

G-CPTN
9th Jan 2014, 20:31
A local dealer is advertising new Chevrolet models at half price.
Don't know whether that marque is good, bad, or indifferent? From 2005 all the mainstream models from GM Daewoo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Korea) were rebranded as Chevrolet in Europe.

alicopter
9th Jan 2014, 20:56
capetonian said

quote
Seems the French don't like the truth. Are you not aware that the Comrades have just approved a 75% tax rate? The other statements may be hyperbole.
unquote

That shows you do not know what you are talking about... the 75% tax concerns employees paid more than 1 MILLION Euros... it is not paid by the Employee but by the Employer... and based on the portion above one million, and this for only two years... so get your facts right before, as usual, talking like a tabloid....
For those reading French, hereafter legal resume after Senate approval...
La nouvelle taxe à 75%, (http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/impots/l-assemblee-vote-la-nouvelle-taxe-a-75-sur-les-tres-hauts-revenus-18-10-2013-3238321.php)qui s'applique désormais aux entreprises quand elles versent à des salariés une rémunération annuelle supérieure à un million d'euros. La «contribution exceptionnelle de solidarité», l'autre nom de la «taxe à 75%», sera payée par les entreprises, avec un plafond fixé à 5% du chiffre d'affaires. Elle est assise sur la fraction de la rémunération supérieure à un million d'euros. Elle s'appliquera pendant deux ans, sur les rémunérations de 2013 et 2014. Son taux est en fait de 50%, mais en y ajoutant les charges sociales, on se rapproche de l'engagement symbolique de 75%.

Anyway, that does not change the fact that you cannot take seriously what you hear / read in the media... every single fact is distorted in a way or another depending who is reporting... and that was the sole reason for this post.

G-CPTN
12th Jan 2014, 10:54
BBC News - Jaguar Land Rover posts record car sales figures (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25701389)

Effluent Man
25th Jan 2014, 15:55
Just received my Feb copy of Car Dealer trade mag.A big article claiming that Pre registrations are at their highest ever level.So that may have something to do with the number of sales.