Emirates have dropped the ball

[pilotchute]

Well Emirates, I have flown with you in 2004. 05, 09, 11 and then last week. I must admit the standard was very good until 2011. The 2011 flights were not great but it was better than we had experienced with other airlines on the route.

Fast forward to 2013 and it seems the standard has gone out the window! Each flight was 60 minutes or more late. Also, taxiing in Dubai for 20 minutes to then wait for buses to take us to the terminal which took another 20 minutes and then having to hike for 20 minutes to the gate of my connecting flight.

We were told that there are 14 cabin crew on the flight but only ever saw 4 of them in economy. I think the 777-300 seats about 260 in economy and we had 2 food trolleys attended by 2 crew each. They also did the drinks which is strange because I always remember having a trolley for food and a trolley for drinks in each aisle. This meant from the time food service started to when the last people in economy got food was around 2 hours! They were so slow. I see complaints from people saying that food was almost "thrown" at them on other airlines and then the crew disappeared down the back. That would be great because then I could actually ask someone for water/sugar etc. I couldn't as they were either putting food out or picking it up. When they finally finished the "never ending" food service they all took off up the front. This usually left one or 2 people down the back who seemed to be busy opening and shutting metal galley doors very loudly.

Oh yeah first and business have 28 seats combined and they get 10 cabin crew?

[Mr Mac]

Pilot Chute
I am also a long term EK user (2000) and I also agree with your comments about standards slipping (and I am lucky enough to be in the Business cabin most times). There does seem to have been a drop in service since 2010 in my opinion in all cabins. The issue with DXB and long taxi / remote stands is I guess due to EK success and DXB ability or lack there of to keep pace. There is the new terminal, and also airport which may in time remove some of these issues. My own personal gripe with DXB is the time it takes to clear security / immigration even if only changing planes, as the dedicated fast track lines are anything but fast. Also a lot of EK crew are not overly happy with pay rise which is very small given cost of living rises in UAE, and perhaps they are not as attentive as a result.


I flew down to DXB last week, and back yesterday and to be fair service was good on both sectors (777 evening flight out and back from Man). Also no matter how bad EK service it has never been as bad as some US carriers I have flown on.


Any how as I am now employed out of Dubai since 6/1/14 I will just have to get used to it on my bi monthly visits with EK, as they are my employers preferred carrier.

[pilotchute]

Thanks Mr Mac,

I will be giving Qatar a go to East Coast USA in April and then I am back in the USA again in August on the airline up the road from Emirates. The one up the road from Emirates will be business class so I will be interested in seeing the different levels of service from 3 airlines over the course of less than six months. I know that business is a different beast but seeing if the OTP is better will be interesting.

I used to not mind paying a little extra for Emirates but it seems the "extra" isn't what it used to be. What happened to the little bag you would get with the eye mask and the socks? What happened to the sandwiches between meals if you weren't hungry when dinner was being served?

I find when I fly with AA or Delta if I expect nothing then I won't be upset!

[Cymmon]

You WILL notice a difference with QR. They have 2-2-2 on business next to EK's 2-3-2 and the service is much better. Even 1 less seat across in Y class.

[crewmeal]

I agree the service has being eroded over the years and the standards are some what slipping. The quality of the meals has dropped along with Cabin Service standards with some crew members not even knowing what is being served. Again in this 'social networking' world some crew can't even communicate and speak to pax. They seem stay glued in the back galley.

Come on Sir Tim if you're reading this you have an excellent worldwide network with up to date equipment but do something about Cabin Service.

This is how I was trained......

1969 BOAC Sgt. Major - YouTube

[blind pew]

Brilliant crew meal....reminds me of austin bray and a few others :O

[Andy_S]

I can only talk Cattle Class, but having recently travelled with Emirates for the first time in many years, taking in a range of factors they weren’t as bad as I’d expected. In fact for the economy traveler they compare reasonably well against QR and EH.

Biggest problem with EK is the cramped seating arrangement on the 777. However, if the aircraft isn’t too full then careful seat selection if you check in on-line can often result in an empty seat next to you. It worked for me on 3 out of 4 legs of my journey.

I used to travel a lot with EK in the 90’s when they were a modest sized outfit with industry leading standards. These days, they’re just another big faceless airline.

[PAXboy]

Andy_SThese days, they’re just another big faceless airline.That's the corporate world. Wikipedia says they started in 1985 so 28 years is enough time to change from the one who breaks the rules and establishes new ones - to the middle ranks of corporate smotherhood.

Just look at the recent threads about airlines that ain't wot they used to be:-


VS: Started in 1984.
FR: Started in 1985.
EK: Started in 1985.

So it was the middle of the big boom before the bang of 1989/91. These three survived by being guinely different. Now they are corporate. If you want to look at others in a different field? Google and Amazon.

That's what human beings do ...:sad:

[ExXB]

FR didn't adopt the low cost model until the EU deregulated in 1992. Before that they were just another regional feeder airline.

[Mr Mac]

Pilot chute
I have tried Qatar last year down to East Africa and found 330 Man - Doha to be better than those used by EK - Newer and less seats across however Doha airport not as good as Dubai yet - new one coming. Also leg down to Africa not up to same std as flight down from UK. However would us them again. Have not tried the one we can not mention so can not comment.


Crewmeal
Nice video I am just old enough to remember when flying was like that on my trips back to and from school when we lived in Chile, with BCAL. However you did not get much in the way of in flight entertainment then either - good book was the order of the day !. Interesting your comments on the meals as that was what I found on my pre Christmas trip down from Man to DXB with wine out of sequence and crew a little unsure on the food presentation or indeed what it was !. All sectors since then (5) have been better but only one was as good as it used to be.


Paxboy
It will be interesting to see if EK take any notice of comments which I am told by crew on my recent trips are being raised by a number of their FF. Have had this also confirmed by EK captain who I know, who told me that this is being fed back up the line to "the management so maybe they will take some action, you never know !.

[PAXboy]

ExXB Thanks, I couldn't be bothered to look up their change-over time. Considering '92, I think that FR have hit the crisis point sooner than the others because of their rapid growth. Even whilst MoL would have been keeping headcount down - you cannot run that size of operations without a fair sized HQ. And HQs tend to have only one path and that increasingly becomnes self-centered. Not least as, when everything is going well, it must be the people at the top who are doing the right thing. I mean, that's obvious!

Mr Mac Indeed! I regret that, being deeply cynical, I predict no change in EK, or the others. The reason is simple. The change of policies and procedures that have led to people noticing the change, have been taken some time ago (a year or more) and by the people at the top. They only change their mind when two things happen. Either, MUCH money is lost or people die.

Sorry, but I spent 27 years in the corporate world and am an old man, who has watched the world for a while and that's what I've learnt.

[strake]

Number 1 son lives in Dubai so EK tends to be his regular airline. Although I have never flown with them, he speaks well of their service, particularly on the 380's.
Next week, he heads to Iraq with them...apparently it's a single cabin configuration called 'Tourist Class'. Now that's an optimistic concept to consider as you head to Basra...

[PhilW1981]

To the OP, EK have recently redesigned their economy service, meals and process redesigned and changed. I fly a mix of J and Y and flew Y on Monday and I have to say I found the new service better.

Number 1 son lives in Dubai so EK tends to be his regular airline. Although I have never flown with them, he speaks well of their service, particularly on the 380's.
Next week, he heads to Iraq with them...apparently it's a single cabin configuration called 'Tourist Class'. Now that's an optimistic concept to consider as you head to Basra...

Someone's spinning a yarn there. ALL Emirates aircraft have 2 class cabins and most have 3. Definitely no such thing as "Tourist class" on EK,

[strake]

I think the fact that he is going in the company of 90 colleagues has something to do with it.

[crewmeal]

To the OP, EK have recently redesigned their economy service, meals and process redesigned and changed. I fly a mix of J and Y and flew Y on Monday and I have to say I found the new service better.

Nice to know that they have looked at the service routines and meals. Lets hope they improve Cabin Crew knowledge of the product.

[GrahamO]

Too many 'First World Problems' appearing herein, to be taken too seriously IMO.

At least PPRUNE isn't nearly as bad as businesstraveller.com

(Emirates Gold plus 51 flights on FlyDubai since March 2013)

[InSeat19c]

I don't fly that often and am a 'once a year, on holiday' type of passenger.


I flew Emirates for the first time last July and thought that they were pretty amazing.


The food was good and also plentiful and it was a comfortable as is possible on a plane. I found the crew generally friendly and pleasant to deal with too.

[Dryce]

We do UK to SE Asia several times a year and I reckon that EK have actually improved a bit in the last 5 years in terms of service consistency. First choice carrier with whole family these days. It's a bit of a shock if circumstances mean reverting to the likes of KLM or BA.

There is some variation - some crews are better than others on the day - but the same can be said of other carriers.

In terms of aircraft ICE and things like power sockets fit it can be a real shock travelling in the back of EK's newer fit 777s and then doing a sector in business and premium economy with other carriers and adjusting to the poxy small screen and lack of convenience.

[mixture]

At least PPRuNe isn't nearly as bad as businesstraveller.com

Heh... and if you think businesstraveller is bad, try the British Airways board on Flyer Talk.

I've only ever been there once... by accident after searching for something on Googoo. After a few minutes reading I left mouth agast never to return again.

Absolutley choc full of first world problems and moaning minnies demanding compensation for the minutest of transgressions !

[ExXB]

I left flyertalk due to mobbing by a bunch of BA staff. Went there with a question, left after having my intelligence questioned and being insulted.

[PAXboy]

I must say that our forums have improved in the last couple of years - once all the rowdies left for 'other pastures' ... :ok:

On looking into the F- Talk, I found it to be F- Howling. :rolleyes: The miniscule 'problems' described and the folks who pursue Points as if the holy grail? They must be unemployed to expend so much effort.

[Mr Mac]

Paxboy / ExXB


Have to agree with you on this about f- talk gave up along time ago.


Graham O
I have spent most of my life flying in and out of 3rd world countries either because I was living there, or business / holiday, and one of the good things is getting on a 1st World plane with 1st world service either going in or out. Therefore it is quite nice and not unreasonable to get wines/ food in the correct order and temperature, with cabin staff who know what they are doing in this regard. I know you can get good service in some 3rd world areas, I have fond memories of Ouagadougou (Wagga) Burkina Faso and some truly excellent Civet de canard but in general it is quite poor, and it is just quite nice to step on board and relax after you have passed immigration with the young men with AK47 at security.


Not a "first world problem in my view" just what the flight attendants should do and are trained to do after their H&S responsibilities, but recently with EK it has not been that great , although still a lot better than London Airways. Flying again with EK on Sunday so we will see, as for Gold card, I think my company and I between us own at least a wing !.

[minstermineman]

A group of us flew from Birmingham to Manilla (via Dubai) last Monday to represent the UK in the Philippines International Pyromusical Competition.

The leg from Birmingham to Dubai was - frankly - a bad experience, we had seats right at the back, and so were last to get everything on offer - from headsets to drinks to meals, not in itself a problem and expected, but the actual service was not good - the 4 cabin crew seeming to be very inorganised and no cohesion on working together. Almost as if all four were on their first trip.
This was also the experience on the return journey from Dubai to Birmingham.

Seat space was extremely cramped on all legs (same aircraft type - 777-300 I believe) and most uncomfortable - on all sectors the entertainment system kept crashing and was repeatedly turned off to try and reset it.

The cabin crew themselves were attentive I must add - but the disorganisation and glitches make it a near certainty that Emirates wont be our first choice should we have to go to any of their destinations in the future.

On leaving Manilla our party upon reaching the gate , had our boarding passes taken off us and were told to stand outside the gate area and not sit inside, no reason given for our seperation and other arriving passengers were allowed inside. Then when boarding commenced we had to explain our way back in as they forgot that they had taken our passes of us. Still have no idea what that was all about...

[Heathrow09L]

Does anybody recommend anyone senior in the customer service dept to del with complaints, I am a regular First Class customer and Gold Card, I received on a few occasions quite poor service, I have wrote formally to the main Customer Affairs Dept, but always receive the standard cut and paste response,
I enquirer further to see idiot can be referred to someone more senior and the response I got was that " there is no one senior, I am empowered to deal with your complaint," surely as a high paying premium customer something better than that response would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Gulfstreamaviator]

So don't feel too bad about it.....


if you want to see how many balls they are dropping go onto ME forum, and see just what the staff think about their own company.


Try Qatar next time....

[parabellum]

Heathrow 09L - Only ever write to the very top, by name, at the registered business address and make it a registered and recorded delivery letter.


Bosses don't like receiving snotty letters of complaint and will pass it straight to the department head, this way your complaint gets dealt with from the top down and not the bottom up! Just make sure of all your facts when writing, tell it like it is, don't embellish anything. Make sure you mention your are a Gold Card holder.


Sir Timothy Charles Clark KBE is the current President of Emirates, I believe,
and you should find him, (or his PA), at: Emirates Group HQ, PO Box 686. Dubai, UAE.

[Heathrow09L]

Thank you very much for that, I will defnately try that and well depending if I get a reply, will keep you updated

Thanks again

[flight_mode]

If you think EK are bad you should try the alternatives. When my job switched focus to the Middle East I tried to retain my Star Alliance status by flying with LX and LH then the Boss said try EK.

LX and LH
Old A340 with angled lie flats made from rocks in Biz and turboprop levels of comfort in Y. Crap IFE with tiny screens and controllers with the buttons warn off and disengaged crew.

EK
New A380 fully flat in C, fantastic IFE in both classes, wifi, phone signal, plenty of space in Y, good lighting and always a pleasant crew.

I don't know what EK used to be like but by today's standards they are still up there with the best.

[FFFlyer]

I was on the EK/ QF9 flight bought thru Emirates which had engine trouble and had to return to Dubai on 29 March. The plane had to dump fuel before it could land circle for 30 mins over the Gulf then it was an emergency landing, very hard, with fire tenders alongside. We were then kept on the plane for nearly 2 hours with only a bottle of water. There was only one overloaded Qantas representative there seeing passengers as they left the flight. Had to get CID clearance to leave the airport, took another hour.

It took me all that morning on the phone to rebook the flights with Emirates, they kept on saying we had to do this through Qantas. Nobody at Qantas was answering the phone. When eventually I did get through to the Qantas call centre they told me they could not rebook the tickets Emirates’ had to do it. After speaking to three different people at different times in the Emirates call centre at great length, two of whom promised to call back but did not I eventually managed to get the flights rebooked for the next morning. Appalling customer service.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Last time I flew Emirates was 2004. I was booked business class Dubai-Gatwick. At check in I found the flight was full and the only way we could travel was in tourist. Two pilots, two hostesses from a VIP carrier who needed to be in London ASAP so we took the seats. The co-pilot and I were next to an emergency exit, after boarding we were asked to move so they could put a family with a tiny baby in our seats (illegal as no one may occupy an exit row if they are elderly, infirm or a baby) we refused to move on those grounds, BIG MISTAKE!


For the whole flight to London the Emirates cabin crew ignored us, we couldn't even get a glass of water. On landing at LGW we asked to see the purser and station manager to complain, they couldn't have cared less. Ten years later my company is still awaiting a refund for our downgrading (thousands of pounds) We refuse to use Emirates to position our crews and as far as I'm concerned they can go broke tomorrow.


Sadly for Emirates they don't seem to understand that if you do something well everyone will expect it and not comment, do something badly and a p***ed off customer will tell everyone he knows. I'd need to be escaping a disaster zone to get on an Emirates aircraft again.

[PAXboy]

A cogent example SND. Middle Eastern companies may have forgotten the old adage 'bad news travels fast' and not yet worked out that the Internet spreads bad news very fast. They need to read the story behind the 2008 story, United Breaks Guitars. It even has it's own Wikipedia page and the song is available online. The event is used as an example of a PR disaster.

Will they learn or will their money insulate them? Will they be able to keep fares low enough to keep the folks buying?

[pwalhx]

I am not sure a flight from 10 years ago is relevant to the initial question as EK have changed a lot in that time.

I am afraid my view is contrary to recent posters in that as a regular user over the last 4/5 years on their Manchester services I think there service has been excellent. Yes I have been lucky to be travelling in Business, yes I have regularly been on the superb A380 and I do agree the 777 isn't as good but it is still not as bad as being pictured.

If I compare them with other carriers I have been on - BA are awful, CX/MH I found distinctly average, KL never found them that good, LH efficient but bland. to name but a few.

[Admiral]

The Emirates A380 experience I found to be very good. Flew yesterday economy CDG-DXB, good leg room for economy, IFE is well ahead of competitors in economy. Having flown the Abu Dhabi based operator and Emirates in all classes in the last twelve months, from/to UAE-Emirates are ahead by a nose.

[PAXboy]

Fair point, pwalhx. But it does show that pax do not forget.

I have not had many occasions to chose a particular USA carrier, since a grim experience (both check-in and cabin) since I was on them in the mid-90s. So I presume they are better now - but in the opportunities I've had to chose them and find out - they've not been on the list.

I have only once had to meet an unaccompanied minor (ny neice then aged 12) from a long haul flight but the airline made a hash of the handover and if anyone mentions UMs, then I tell the story as a warning.

All companies have to learn that you have to be good all the time and to rectify faults rapidly. In the biggest recession the West has had for 90 years - there are no second chances.

[parabellum]

Sorry to hear that Heathrow09L, there was a time when a letter to the top person would have always got a reply, it seems that manners count for nothing these days, never mind best business practice, just one word though, given that EK is a Middle East airline you may still get a reply in another couple of months!


In your case an investigation should have been instigated and as it went from department to department, (all blaming each other!), it would have taken time, eventually, the reports all collected, someone would have had the job of doing an assessment and then writing to you, but that was in the days when things were still done properly!

[mixture]

Bosses don't like receiving snotty letters of complaint and will pass it straight to the department head, this way your complaint gets dealt with from the top down and not the bottom up! Just make sure of all your facts when writing, tell it like it is, don't embellish anything. Make sure you mention your are a Gold Card holder.

You do realise they don't read their own post don't you.

It will be opened and read by their PA, and then passed onto the executive complaints department.

Its the same in all large entities.

[Heathrow Harry]

not always......

I've had letters from the Top Man in two airlines

Much better class of paper and envelopes tell you it's not the usual corporate rubbish and they have a better signature printer as well....................

[parabellum]

It will be opened and read by their PA, and then passed onto the executive complaints department.


Not so in my experience, not at all. If the top dog's PA opens it, it has to be dealt with as though the top dog had read it in case there are legal ramifications down the track. Once the complaint leaves the top dogs desk it will usually be routed to a head of department with a terse note, "Sort this pls." Far, far better that it should be opened and re-routed via the top PA in the company than by some very lowly clerk in the main mail office.

[KBPsen]

Not so in my experience You do realise that most, of not all, around here just make it up as they go along.

[GEB74]

I fly EK pretty frequently - in all classes for both work and family, not through great personal preference, but because their schedules suit where and when I want to travel.
Couple of personal observations of them over recent years.

Massive degradation in the value of Skywards. Reward flights rarer and more costly in 'fees' than they used to be. Upgrade availability also gone badly south.
Oh, and being Gold or Plat means nothing. You might get a 'welcome back Sir' if your lucky - thats it.


Don't bother complaining. They just don't respond. Save your time and blood pressure.

Whilst the A380 is a great aircraft in all classes, the cabin service is shoddy in all but F. I'm sick of cold tea and coffee in Y due to the time it takes to serve everybody. I'm sick of getting poor and slow service if i'm unlucky enough to get stuck in the back of the J cabin.
Their older aircraft are a disgrace. How the A330's have spent their entire life at EK without any major refit i just cant fathom.
The 777W's are well known for being cramped in Y, but for me, their biggest weakness is the 7 across J cabin. Yes, I understand their J fares are cheaper than most other carriers, but it really is a substandard product to many competitors offerings now.


BUT - its all irrelevant!
Their aircraft fly round near full on most routes, most of the time.
Fares are going up, but loads are not going down.
They continue to treat their customers with little short of disdain.
Yet they continue to grow massively.
For me, the interesting question is at what point will they have annoyed enough of their customers for loads and yields to go south??
Until this happens, don't expect any positive change in Emirates service standards.
Ryanair got away with awful customer service for well over a decade before it finally and recently caught up with them.
I'm waiting for the same thing to happen with Emirates - but i'm not holding my breath.
In the meantime, i continue to use them when it suits me, but without any loyalty - next flight for me is on EY........

[Andy_S]

I said previously that when you consider the complete flight experience (including airport transfer) I thought that EK's economy class had the edge over EY and QR. However, 3 of my 4 recent legs with EK were on newish and half-full 777's. If each leg had been as uncomfortable as the packed LGW-DXB flight on an older 777 then I would have felt very different about the experience.

If the new DOH ever opens, I think QR will have the beating of EK, price and available destinations notwithstanding.

[Heathrow Harry]

any really full aircraft is verging on hell in Economy these days no matter who flies it

You get what you pay for - fewer staff, worse food, less space....... which you can live with at say 70% full on a 2 hour flight to Europe but when the plane is packed like an 18th Century slaver on 13++ hours to LAX .....................................

[GrahamO]

All I can add is that far too many people are really up themselves when talking about their 'dreadful experiences' on Emirates.

Last Fy I had 104 flights, and about 70% on Emirates and the balance on Flydubai, Oman Air, Qatar Airways , SaudiAir and occasionally on BA. I even flew NASAir once - never again though.

Emirates are consistently good on Economy, Sure, the company does occasionally leave something to be desired but the way you lot go on, you would think it was third world airline, flying a DC3.

Get a grip - a cup of cold team on one flight, once does not make a trend, any more than your persons moans is a depiction of an entire airline. They don;t grovel to our cards - btu so what ? Its no longer much of an elite status and you pay the same as they guy in the seat next to you. I CGAF if they no longer say hello, as it was always artificial.

'Disdain' my ar*e - its they realised you have your head up yours and that you are not worth the effort, as people who do lots of miles are actually following corporate airline policies and you are no more a true decision maker than the man sitting next to you - probably even less so.

[paulc]

Just done a couple of flight on Emirates after not using them for a couple of years (leisure traveller only- just a few comments.

Outbound on EK8 - LHR - DXB 6/5/2014 -
LHR check-in was quick and were given upgrade to exit seats where were good. Slightly late departure (25 mins) even though inbound aircraft on time. Boarding process seemed chaotic.

Onboard the crew were attentive and pleasant - food excellent, (friend i was with is a picky eater but scoffed the lot) IFE is still one of the best around.
A380 is still an impressive aircraft, especially the overall noise levels.

Returned today on EK7
Check in was quick but had to get EK staff member to print boarding passes as self check in machine failed to print. Departed on time but slow boarding process (only 1 person at gate and did not always use PA system to announce boarding zone) - food less good but was not expecting much given the 02:30am departure time. Cabin crew ok but did miss a detail or 2 (ie ran out of crossients for breakfast a few rows in front and crew did not come back with fresh suppply + couple of overhead bins not latched securely on push back) This might seem picky but little details are what get remembered.

Would certainly use again and recommend.