Vickers Windsor - Prototype Accident?

[old,not bold]

I learned the other day that an RAF relative "got into severe trouble" after breaking a Vickers Windsor, perhaps in late 1943, perhaps the prototype.

Legend has it that the cause was an unintentional downwind landing at the end of a test flight.

I have seen in pprune archives a mention from Virgo in 2003 that the prototype crashed in flames in Wales, which seems to conflict with what I heard.

Can anyone throw any light on this? I've trawled Google with no real result apart from the pprune reference above.

I did learn a lot I didn't know about the aircraft. Rather ungainly, but designed by Barnes Wallis, packed with revolutionary features, and fast (317 Kt cruise).

[DaveReidUK]

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/80584-vickers-windsor.html

[Herod]

The picture links don't appear to work, but there is a short article on Wiki, complete with photograph. It seems all three prototypes flew, but it doesn't give any details of how they ended up.

[Brian Abraham]

A little history here

Vickers Windsor - bomber (http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/vickers_windsor.php)

[Rosevidney1]

I seem to remember reading an account of its flight trials many years ago which said the control column could be pushed or pulled 'some inches' before the elevator responded.

[NickB]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that a prototype Windsor crashed at night on to the former RAF Grove airfield near Wantage, Oxford - anyone confirm this?

[BEagle]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that a prototype Windsor crashed at night on to the former RAF Grove airfield near Wantage, Oxford - anyone confirm this?

From Action Stations 6. Military airfields of the Cotswolds and the Central Midlands:

A dramatic incident took place on March 2 1944 when the exotic Vickers Armstrongs (sic) Windsor DW506 force-landed here (Grove) and was written off as a result. The accident occurred in poor weather when the large, unconventional and highly secret bomber was being flown by a pilot new to the type. A piece of metal had become lodged in the constant speed unit of the starboard inner propeller, as a result of which the engine could not be feathered. In the crash the bomber broke its back.

[old,not bold]

I think that must have been the landing that got my uncle into trouble. The word down-wind persists, although whether he had any option is another matter. I suspect the Powers-That-Be were less forgiving of a serving officer pilot in those days.

The accident injured him quite severely, and the after-effects gave him a lot of grief in later life.

He once told me that while he was immobile in hospital, a Board of Enquiry convened at his bedside. They gave him quite a hard time, and then left. The last member through the door turned, came back and produced a bottle of Scotch which he placed under the pillow, saying "you need a bloody stiff drink after those bastards". Then he hurried out after his colleagues.

It was Nat Somers, whom I met decades later when negotiating over a South Coast airport. His kindly side was not evident then, but clearly he had one, as well as a sense of humour.

Many thanks to all for the snippets of information.

[ancientaviator62]

I think Captain Eric Brown flew the Windsor and if my memory is correct was not impressed. The wings tended to flap, but whether this was a design feature or a lack of strength I do not recall.

[DaveReidUK]

I think Captain Eric Brown flew the Windsor

Yes, it gets a mention in Volume 2 of his "Wings of the Weird and Wonderful" book

[IFPS man]

Hi Forumites
According to Eric Morgan, the pilot of DW506 was S/L English of the RAE. Yes, Eric Brown did fly the aircraft but, in his book did qualify the "frightening aspect" of the wing flexing by stating also that he "enjoyed flying the aircraft".
Three aircraft were completed - the first prototype, DW506 which first flew on the 23rd October 1943 from Farnborough and flown by "Mutt" Summers. The second prototype, DW512 was, according to Maurice Summers logbook, first flown on the 8th February 1944. The third aircraft, NK136, was first flown on the 18th July 1944, with Maurice Summers making its first flight. Both DW512 & NK136 were initially flown from Wisley.
Two other aircraft were constructed - NN670, which upon cancellation of the project was 95% completed and NN673, 65% completed.
Ignoring DW506 which was "cannibalised" following its Grove crash, DW512 was notified for disposal in June 1946, whist NK136 was flown to RAF Manby as a ground instruction aircraft. It was finally broken up in June 1948.

NN670 & NN763 were broken up in 1946.

[John Farley]

According to Derek Collier Web and the ministry test flying accident archives:

The Gove accident on 2 March 1944 was DW506 captained by Mutt Summers and it took of from Farnborough.

The same source lists this as the only Windsor accident.

[BEagle]

Presumably there's no truth in the rumour that Mutt had originally asked to land at Brize, but was told "Remain outside the zone - one TriStar at 40 years...."

:p

[IFPS man]

John: Who is/was Derek Collier Web? Not sure about "Mutt" Summers being the pilot on that day. There was no entry in "Mutt" or Maurices's Logbooks indicating that they were the pilots of DW506. Also, in another logbook, it indicates that Roly Falk flew Captain Summers, M Summers and a "passenger" on that day, to and from Farnborough - Grove. I shall look at the records we hold at Brooklands next week...
Incidently, Barnes Wallis didn't design the Windsor or the Wellington or the Warwick They were the work of R K Pierson. He was the Chief Designer - Wallis was the Chief Structural Designer, under RKP
ttfn
Andy IFPSman

[chevvron]

Derek Collier Webb was a Sqdn Ldr at Farnborough in a non- flying role when I first went there. He produced various books using the archives held in the RAE Library which happened to be just across the road from his office!!

[IFPS man]

Ah; thanks for that, Chevvron

[cambioso]

Love it Beagle!!!

[John Farley]

Andy

chevvron has answered your question about D C-W. Thanks chevvron.

In his book on UK Flight Testing accidents 1940-71 (published by Air-Britain) D lists five references to this accident the most relevant to this thread being "Ministry of Defence Air Historical Branch Archives (Aircraft and Accident Records and Casuality Lists)"

JF

[old,not bold]

S/Ldr Robert English was my uncle, so that ties that up and I'm grateful for all the information provided. He achieved fame later in life by starting the Gliding for the Disabled scheme which enhanced so many blighted lives in a way that nothing else could. He also bought and used as a business tool a Wallis Autogyro; he flew it to inspect farm buildings his company had put up in East Anglia.

l just wish that I had known before that what he was involved with was the Windsor; I could have asked him all about it.

I thought for a moment that Nat Somers and Mutt Summers might be one and the same, but they were not. Nat went on to design and build the first and only single engine jet light aircraft (4 seater, incredibly advanced for its time), while Mutt Summers was a test pilot on the Supermarine Swift, I believe, along with lots of other amazing things.

[IFPS man]

Old but bold; see your PM's...
The first flight of Swift VV106 was undertaken by Mike Lithgow on the 29th December 1948. He and Dave Morgan did most of the early Swift flying from Chilbolton

[chevvron]

There was mention earlier on of 'Mutt' Summers and 'Maurice' Summers; are these the same person?

[IFPS man]

Hi Chevvron
Maurice Summers was Joseph "Mutt" Summers younger brother. He, too, became a test pilot. Maurice was in the RAF (And was on the same flying course as "Tommy" Lucke - he flew for Vickers during the War) before becoming a test pilot with Glosters and later Hawkers. In 1941 he became Head of Bomber Development at Vickers. Later, in November 1941, he went to the US and flight tested aircraft under consideration for potential use by the RAF.
He returned to Weybridge in late 1943 and continued flying Warwick and Windsor aircraft. His (Vickers) flying activities ceased in 1945 following a bad accident whilst flying a Warwick. He left Vickers in the late 40's and moved to America. Maurice died in 2001.
Hope this is of interest

[old,not bold]

Here is the report written by S/Ldr English on the Windsor accident at Grove. It has recently surfaced from a trawl through his papers.

(As far as I can tell he had a passenger, Mr Ripper (technical observer?), but no operating crew. He was attached to the Performance Testing Sqadron at the time (Boscombe). He was 27 years old. He had completed 7 bombing missions flying a Stirling, on the last of which the aircraft was "quite badly shot up" and crashed on landing. He had also worked as an instructor on up to 12 types, fighter and bomber, with OUTSTANDING ratings consistently.)

The report is remarkable for its honesty, and even more for its insight into how things were done in those dark days; noting the lack of any assistance from the ground that a pilot would expect nowadays. There he was, stooging about above, in and below cloud, more or less on his own, in a bloody great prototype bomber with two engines out on one side, no idea where he is, looking for an airfield, and all he does is be apologetic about landing downwind.

To A.O.C.

4 March 1944

Sir, I have the honour to report that on 2nd March 1944 I was flying Windsor No 506 from RAF Farnborough. The purpose of the flight was to determine zero foot loads for two-engine flying.

2. At 10,000 feet I feathered the starboard outer and carried out the first part of the test with the starboard inner windmilling in course pitch. After approximately 5- 10 minutes I opened up the inner engine but noticed that it did not respond and that the airscrew seemed to be stopping. I then unfeathered the starboard outer but found that it was giving no power. I immediately checked over the cockpit and found that I had omitted to turn on the petrol cock, I did this but with no result, I also turned on both booster pumps. The engine never gave any sign of firing.

3. Next I tried to restart the inner engine but could not unfeather it. I then decided to come down below the clouds to find my position with the idea of returning to Farnborough. When I was below the clouds I decided to fly south and if I did not locate myself fairly soon to land at the first large aerodrome. I looked at two aerodromes both of which seemed too small, before finding Grove. As soon as I sighted this aerodrome I noticed smoke blowing parallel with the runway, and I turned to what I imagined was the windward and, actually I had taken the reciprocal of the wind direction. I now concentrated entirely on my approach, but tried once more to restart the starboard outer with the balance cock open, also trying the feathering switch of the inner, both unsuccessfully. I therefore began the last part of the approach with the starboard engines feathered. I had no qualms that I should not be able to make a perfectly safe landing with flaps and undercarriage down. and am quite confident that the approach as carried out would have been perfectly satisfactory had it been into wind and not downwind, as I was allowing for a strong breeze. As it was I had no choice but to run straight ahead and avoid any obvious obstacles.

I hope that this fills out the picture of what happened to that Windsor. There is one question (did the stbd inner go from course to feather by itself as it ran down?) but he can be forgiven that. The report was written from a hospital bed.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/picshooter/Windsor_zpsef2354d6.png

[IFPS man]

Thanks Onb
Very interesting - it ties in with what I have on the topic!
IFPSman