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View Full Version : Maddy McCann - Surprised this is not on the BBC


Ogre
5th Jan 2014, 08:56
News.com.au are saying that police now have evidence that Maddy McCann was snatched in a botched burglary

UK police say gang of thieves snatched Madeleine McCann in a burglary 'gone wrong' | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/uk-police-say-gang-of-thieves-snatched-madeleine-mccann-in-a-burglary-gone-wrong/story-fneszs56-1226795199295)

Possible? I suppose it could be, but the question is :"what happened next"?

Didn't see anything on the BBC news website, so is it just the media reporting a rumour?

Capetonian
5th Jan 2014, 08:57
I think it was in the Telegraph yesterday- I did read it somewhere.

probes
5th Jan 2014, 09:02
me too, possibly Telegraph.
What an ordeal for the parents.

Capetonian
5th Jan 2014, 09:03
Police identify three prime suspects for abduction of Madeleine McCann following analysis of mobile phone data | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2533510/Police-identify-three-prime-suspects-abduction-Madeleine-McCann-following-analysis-mobile-phone-data.html)

I found this. Unfortunately the source casts doubt on the veracity.

SpringHeeledJack
5th Jan 2014, 10:01
Who really knows what happened, outside of very bad parental judgement that night. Whilst like most people, I would have wished for the child to have been repatriated with her family, the incredible amount of time, money and energy put into the case has likely starved thousands of other cases of missing children of the same resources.

Btw, I was under the impression that mobile phone networks only recently kept records for a year and were then obliged to purge said information to protect our privacy ? That the Portugese network has incredibly detailed records from 6 years ago makes me wonder :rolleyes:


SHJ

Capetonian
5th Jan 2014, 10:05
There are many aspects of the event, reporting, and investigation which are highly dubious. Some of the so-called journalists who've written about this have written what could be be described as speculation based fiction, fiction, or science fiction.

dazdaz1
5th Jan 2014, 15:43
Another link. I make no comment................

'A Verdade Da Mentira' - English Version (http://www.mccannfiles.com/id240.html)

Sunnyjohn
5th Jan 2014, 16:11
If the police have these three suspects in the frame, there must be more to it than they are telling. It seems unlikely to me, although I'm not a burglar you understand, that a bungled burglary would require anything other than fleeing empty-handed; why take the child? And the rash of mobile calls could simply be the three discussing the bungle and what to do about it. As always with these things, there's a lot that Joe Publik don't know.

G-CPTN
5th Jan 2014, 16:52
anything other than fleeing empty-handed; why take the child?
Recognition of the burglar?

(I'm not implying family or close friends, perhaps a local such as employee of the complex.)

Blues&twos
5th Jan 2014, 17:53
Sounds very unlikely to me, but then that's just based on what I think I would do if I were a burglar. Taking a child ramps a botched burglary up to a crime on a completely different level, not to mention the incredible hassle it would be either looking after a child or offloading her somehow.

fitliker
5th Jan 2014, 18:55
Hopes and prayers that she will be home soon.

TomJoad
5th Jan 2014, 19:44
Hopes and prayers that she will be home soon.

Indeed, hopes and prayers for Madeline and her family.

piperboy84
5th Jan 2014, 20:19
Btw, I was under the impression that mobile phone networks only recently kept records for a year and were then obliged to purge said information to protect our privacy ? That the Portugese network has incredibly detailed records from 6 years ago makes me wonder

I,d have thought that as the phone records are the primary source document for the companys invoicing and revenue they would be obliged to keep them for a period of years under corporate tax or companys law or even Sarbanes/oxley for US registered public companies.

cavortingcheetah
5th Jan 2014, 20:50
Some information from a secondary source on US suppliers.
How long do wireless carriers keep your data? - NBC News.com (http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/how-long-do-wireless-carriers-keep-your-data-120367)
Europe is apparently somewhat different being covered by the European Unions Data Retention Directive, a minimum of one year and a maximum of two.

MFC_Fly
6th Jan 2014, 06:31
I,d have thought that as the phone records are the primary source document for the companys invoicing and revenue they would be obliged to keep them for a period of years under corporate tax or companys law or even Sarbanes/oxley for US registered public companies.
Records of what number was called when and for how long - almost certainly yes.

Records of which masts were receiving the phone signal (i.e. location tracking) - probably no.

airship
6th Jan 2014, 16:31
dazdaz1 wrote: Another link. I make no comment................

'A Verdade Da Mentira' - English Version (http://www.mccannfiles.com/id240.html)

One is perhaps extremely wise not to make any additional comment/s?! Considering how so many, even Gordon Brown and the billionairess J.K. Rowling (of Harry Potter series fame) have committed their own support hitherto...?! :uhoh:

But I more or less made "my own mind up about it all" several years ago, literally days after she disappeared:

1) I don't believe that Maddy was abducted by any paedophile network/s for the simple reason that had she been abducted for such purposes, evidence (in the form of nasty photos / videos) etc. would have "long-ago" (it's been 6 years now...), been circulating the darkest corners of the Internet and apparent to all concerned by now.

2) For similar reasons, I also discarded abduction by any "stolen child" network/s, Roma, etc. endeavouring to supply infants to those without - there were also 2 other younger children available to be taken, who might have been more suitable...

3) A simple "attempted robbery gone wrong"? Imagine that they had indeed been confronted by a Maddy who may have recognised one of them, exclaiming "Roberto?! What are you doing here?" I very much doubt that simple thieves would then abduct her, let alone "make her disappear" afterwards? Being caught for attempted robbery is one thing, "disappearing a child" to hide what is a "petty offence" these days is quite another, and probably well-beyond the "voluntary mind-set" of that type of (petty) criminal.

So what are you left with at the end of the day? A very well-funded "Maddy fund" with some very important individual supporters together with probably thousands of other supporters, who would all be extremely disappointed if... :(:sad::confused:

G-CPTN
9th Mar 2015, 23:26
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/british-detectives-refused-permission-search-174502452.html

pvmw
10th Mar 2015, 11:01
So what are you left with at the end of the day? A very well-funded "Maddy fund" with some very important individual supporters together with probably thousands of other supporters, who would all be extremely disappointed if...
So thats your preferred solution is it? That the parents and other conspired to "lose" a small child so that they and others could make lots of money.

What a sick world you inhabit. Can't say I'm surprised tho'.

Blacksheep
10th Mar 2015, 11:11
All I will say on the subject is that I don't believe the child was abducted at all.

Shack37
10th Mar 2015, 22:10
The usual experts providing theories as per normal.
A post citing a book written by a bent Portuguese cop known to have beaten a confession out of a woman suspect.

I really hope the Brit pólice are following this thread and taking note of all this useful information from the prune detectives.

I do hope she does turn up one day safe and sound to rejoin her parents and twin siblings.

coldair
11th Mar 2015, 01:02
Blacksheep,

I agree 100%

p.s. Hoping I don't get another ban, like other Ppruners who heve been members for many years and are greatly respected have been banned for no logical reason. LOL ;-)


coldair

Espada III
11th Mar 2015, 12:51
Having left a three year old child in a hotel room, when we were in the hotel dining room within 20 metres, and seen said child wandering off along a corridor towards the swimming pool I also wonder about abduction from the room. It could simply be a case of child getting out of the apartment and then being abducted.

Whilst I have sympathy for the parents, that sympathy is tempered by the fact I would not have left the children for so long and being so far away. Is a beer that important? We always employed baby sitters for complete relaxation - its part of the holiday cost and worth every penny.

Anyway I do not believe the parents were involved in the disappearance - they had too much to lose as they are both respected doctors with decent incomes. Why do it?

The case of Ben Needham shows that the chances of getting Maddy back are very slim.

G-CPTN
6th May 2019, 21:27
In view of the recent revelation about a German paedophile who was thought to be in the area at the time of the abduction, and who matches the description of a man seen carrying a child at the time of the disappearance, why has this guy not featured in previous investigations?
We were lead to believe that experts 'left no stone unturned' and that no expense had been spared . . .

KelvinD
7th May 2019, 06:05
G-CPTN: Relying on memory here but I am sure that person may have featured in a recent TV documentary. The documentary was a piece covering the story of the investigation from the point of view of the senior policeman running it. I can remember only vague bits of it just now but I think the German may have been interviewed by the documentary maker and the police.
But, as I said, this is from a vague memory and we all know what memory can do!

wiggy
7th May 2019, 06:12
This from the Mail, so caution... but the recent "revalations" look like another addition to the long standing list of claims, counterclaims and denials..

"Child sex killer Martin Ney is not the new Madeleine McCann suspect Portuguese police are investigating, it was claimed today.

Convicted triple-murderer Ney, 48, was reportedly named as a 'person of interest' by Portuguese police following a tip off from Scotland Yard.

The killer, known as the 'masked man', is said to have visited the Algarve region and travelled extensively throughout Portugal in the 1990s.

However leading Portuguese tabloid Correio da Manha claimed that Ney was not the 'new suspect' currently being investigated by detectives.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6996605/New-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Praia-da-Luz-time-vanished.html

UniFoxOs
7th May 2019, 06:32
I found this. Unfortunately the source casts doubt on the veracity.

Especially as it appears to be a direct copy of the first link, which is dated FIVE years ago.

Is there actually any new information?

barry lloyd
7th May 2019, 08:16
Call me an old cynic, but I think you'll find the fact is that this is simply another suspect who has been identified long after the event took place. It has taken the combined efforts of the British and Portuguese police 12 years to find a man who has been described as a prolific paedophile? Really? I will say only this. The government funding of this investigation is due to run out soon and each time this happens, information is leaked to the media that they are close to finding someone, yet once the funding is in place, it goes very quiet again. Strange that, isn't it?

Krystal n chips
7th May 2019, 08:43
A friend of mine, (yes, I know, but I do have them) a former criminal psychiatrist now retired opined at the time, that, in his professional opinion, the poor child was murdered within hours of her abduction as she had become too much of a liability once the case attracted the publicity with the rapidity it did. .

Much as it would be nice to have a happy outcome, and the child still being alive and well, I think it's fair to say his opinion is probably, sadly, correct .

CyclicRick
7th May 2019, 10:27
The parents know something.

Pontius Navigator
7th May 2019, 10:44
The parents know something.
Ask this, if you left your child alone and out of sight, what would you expect to happen if your child went missing?

Planemike
7th May 2019, 10:59
The parents know something.

If they do, I am sure they will have told the police. They have been questioned a number of times....

KelvinD
7th May 2019, 11:56
I have generally avoided following all the myriad stories about this case as the whole thing left a bad taste. One item from that time, which may have helped for my opinion was a video on the internet. Apparently posted by one of the family friends (who all seem to have backed away from the saga over recent times) the video was of the McCanns, with family & friends, in an airport transfer bus, arriving on an earlier holiday. One of the family friends asked Mr Mcann something about the kids and his response was a rather surly "F%^k the kids! I am here to have a good holiday".

Andy_S
7th May 2019, 11:58
The parents know something.

They know how to keep the case in the spotlight, that's for sure.

PDR1
7th May 2019, 11:58
The parents know something.

How do you know - were you involved?

PDR

Chronus
7th May 2019, 18:50
Am sure it has been said before, but I will say it also, what is so important about this child, many children have disappeared, why is this search and investigation still on.for this child Is it to find the child or is it to dispel any doubt and suspicion that still lingers on about the parents. Who is funding the police investigation, if it is the UK tax payer, then why is it in the public interest when police resources are already stretched to their very limits.

419
7th May 2019, 20:09
On the 2nd May 2019 UK police apply for more funding to help investigate the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
A couple of days later (and before that new funding has been approved), a new lead is announced.

Coincidence?

ve3id
7th May 2019, 20:17
G-CPTN: Relying on memory here but I am sure that person may have featured in a recent TV documentary. The documentary was a piece covering the story of the investigation from the point of view of the senior policeman running it. I can remember only vague bits of it just now but I think the German may have been interviewed by the documentary maker and the police.
But, as I said, this is from a vague memory and we all know what memory can do!

It is available now on Netflix. It is so slow-moving that we stopped watching it after one episode!

https://www.netflix.com/title/80194956

Krystal n chips
8th May 2019, 03:54
Am sure it has been said before, but I will say it also, what is so important about this child, many children have disappeared, why is this search and investigation still on.for this child Is it to find the child or is it to dispel any doubt and suspicion that still lingers on about the parents. Who is funding the police investigation, if it is the UK tax payer, then why is it in the public interest when police resources are already stretched to their very limits.

The answer to your question is in front of you every time a photograph of the poor child is published.

Human interest story for the media > photogenic child > parents from respectable occupations and social standing > unsolved case so an easy source of a story. Now extend this to those investigating the case and think of the prestige if they were to solve it.

Similar human interest etc criteria applied to the poor kids in the Soham murders, but thankfully the murderer was arrested in that case.

Planemike
8th May 2019, 07:52
Maddy McCann - Surprised this is not on the BBC ............

OP Why not "surprised this is not in the media"? Why specifically mention the BBC?

uffington sb
8th May 2019, 12:17
So why did Kate refuse to answer the forty or so questions asked by the Portuguese police?
Would we still be hearing about this if she was a council house slapper who’d gone to the boozer 55 metres away for some beer and fags?
If celebrities want to donate to the Find Maddie fund, then let them, but no more public money should be spent on this case.

and yes I do believe the parents know a lot more about this.

ChocksAwayChaps
8th May 2019, 13:39
Whatever you think of the parents or their lifestyle you are ignoring the child . When you denigrate the parents you denigrate her . The amount of vitriol aimed at that family is disgusting. Of course, no-one here has ever done something that might have led to an injury or death of another, hmm? Has no-one here ever exceeded the speed limit or jumped the lights on amber or had one drink over the limit? I know I have and count myself very lucky that I did not cause the death of a child.

Planemike
8th May 2019, 14:05
So why did Kate refuse to answer the forty or so questions asked by the Portuguese police?
If she was interviewed in the presence of her lawyer she may be been advised to not to answer.

and yes I do believe the parents know a lot more about this.

May I ask, in what way, "know a lot more about this"? They a have been interviewed multiple times by both the Portuguese and British Police. They will have passed on any relevant information they have.....

Chronus
8th May 2019, 18:14
According to https://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/shows/when-missing-turns-to-murder/articles/vanished-britains-five-most-famous-missing-persons-cases
Three main theories persist in this case.

MADELEINE MCCANN WAS KIDNAPPED AND KILLED BY A STRANGER.
SHE WAS ABDUCTED BY A NETWORK OF PAEDOPHILES OR A CHILD SEX TRAFFICKING GANG.
HER PARENTS KILLED HER - INTENTIONALLY OR ACCIDENTALLY - AND PLAYED OUT AN ONGOING PUBLIC CHARADE IN ORDER TO COVER UP THEIR INVOLVEMENT."

If it had been no2 above, someone would have spilled the beans by now.
That leaves 1 and 2 which both involve the death of the child, which seems the more likely. The most important question must be, what happened to her remains. If they were disposed of at sea, then they will never be found. A situation similar to a more recent event, namely the murder of the journalist, Khashoggi .
It would appear the Mccann case will in time overtake the Lord Lucan mystery.

2unlimited
8th May 2019, 22:23
In view of the recent revelation about a German paedophile who was thought to be in the area at the time of the abduction, and who matches the description of a man seen carrying a child at the time of the disappearance, why has this guy not featured in previous investigations?
We were lead to believe that experts 'left no stone unturned' and that no expense had been spared . . .

I don't believe this could be the guy, as from what I have understood from the news, his previous victims was only boys. This leads me to believe that he would not have abducted Maddie.

flash8
9th May 2019, 17:52
Probably get slated here but the parents give me the creeps, not at all sure whether they were involved or not, but their demeanour leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion, and it's this I suspect correctly or incorrectly that lead people to their own conclusions.

As for Portuguese mobile operators keeping logs for six years, I'd be genuinely surprised (as with UK networks) if logs didn't go back to GSM network inception back in the '90s.

M.Mouse
9th May 2019, 18:29
I do not particularly warm to the McCanns but to insinuate that they were at all involved in the disappearance of their daughter, other than through their negligence, is quite appalling.

Besides if they had something to hide why would they not want as little publicity as possible instead of continuing to pursue the quest to find out what happened to her?

Pontius Navigator
9th May 2019, 19:56
MM, no insinuation, but remember the old adage:

Oh what a tangled web we weave / When first we practice to deceive.

Nige321
10th May 2019, 11:48
Having wandered around an assortment of websites over the years either supporting or slating the McCanns, including the heaps of paperwork published by the PJ, I've always been left with the feeling that she was probably abducted, but also with a feeling that there's much more to this story than has ever been made public.

There's a lot that doesn't add up, the McCanns and the Tapas 7 have done and said some strange things over the years, and come across as just slightly, well, odd...

One statement stood out for me, well known amongst the pros and antis.
Google the 'Gaspar Statement'...

Chronus
10th May 2019, 19:32
The most distinguishing feature of this case is that there has been not a shred of evidence found of the child and her clothing, nor any evidence such as unidentified finger prints, foot prints, soil residue, hair, etc. Accordingly it would be most unlikely it could have been an opportune act on the part of the perpetrator. The suggestion therefore leans more towards a planned act of abduction. Unless the child did not sleep after the parents left, woke up and went looking for her parents and was picked up by person(s) who for some reason did not or could not return the child to her parents. But if this was the case how long can such an act be kept secret. The most puzzling feature of this case must therefore be the question of how many normal human beings could possibly maintain their silence for ever. Someone, somewhere knows something, will they take it to the grave with them. I am not sure which is the greatest mystery, this one or MH370. With the latter at the very least we know it went down and all perished in the vastness of an ocean with the Maddy case we don`t have a clue even if it was within a few yards of where she was last seen alive.

Mr Optimistic
11th May 2019, 07:08
I don't have it in me to believe the parents killed their child, accidentally or deliberately. One thing I can't recall hearing about was whether the apartment door was locked or unlocked. Not that it matters much now, all that publicity, probably thrown into the sea.

Asturias56
11th May 2019, 15:08
every year - just as it warms up - the Met re-open this case and some lucky coppers get a trip to Portugal

I really think it's time it was put on the shelf and no more cash spent - the chances of finding out what actually happened and getting a conviction must be infinitesimally small now - there are better things to spend police time and money on

Sallyann1234
11th May 2019, 16:10
Leaving aside the attraction of free holidays, the only reason I can think of is that the police have a very good idea of what happened but not yet sufficient evidence.
They are still trying /hoping for that one piece of clear evidence on which to base an arrest.

BehindBlueEyes
11th May 2019, 18:42
Having wandered around an assortment of websites over the years either supporting or slating the McCanns, including the heaps of paperwork published by the PJ, I've always been left with the feeling that she was probably abducted, but also with a feeling that there's much more to this story than has ever been made public.

There's a lot that doesn't add up, the McCanns and the Tapas 7 have done and said some strange things over the years, and come across as just slightly, well, odd...

One statement stood out for me, well known amongst the pros and antis.
Google the 'Gaspar Statement'...

Until you mentioned the Gaspar Statement, I must admit I hadn’t heard of it and certainly, having now read it, it had the potential to open a can of worms. However, other links suggest that Dr and Mrs Gaspar don’t actually exist as there is no record or photographic evidence of them. Stranger and stranger.

Nige321
11th May 2019, 19:50
Until you mentioned the Gaspar Statement, I must admit I hadn’t heard of it and certainly, having now read it, it had the potential to open a can of worms. However, other links suggest that Dr and Mrs Gaspar don’t actually exist as there is no record or photographic evidence of them. Stranger and stranger.
The portugese translation is in the PJ files...

KelvinD
11th May 2019, 20:13
I too had not heard of the Gaspars and I too have read on the web that perhaps they don't exist.
Well, DC 1756 Mike Marshall of Leicestershire Police has had dealings with them. He apparently took their statements and they were forwarded to the Portuguese authorities in October 2007, despite the statements having been taken in May 2007.
Here's the Portuguese document (in Portuguese, I am afraid) relating to this:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/21050213/Arul-and-Katherina-Gaspar-Statements?language_settings_changed=English
If they were real to a DC in Leicestershire, it seems they were real enough to me.
Like others here, I too had not read anything about this case since shortly after the occurrence but links etc posted here have me reading reams and reams of stuff. I wouldn't like to say who did what to whom but I have noticed there is a mountain of stuff out there that outweighs anything the McCanns have had to say by a huge factor. From what I have read on the pro-McCann side, most of their defence against rumours and allegations seems to be comprised of threatened law suits, attempt to gag people and even approaching a judge in Portugal to try to have the Portuguese Police Inspector and his wife divorced in order that they could sequester his assets ahead of their failed legal actions against them.
Edit: I have found the original, English, statement taken by DC Marshall:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Gaspar.htm

Sir Niall Dementia
12th May 2019, 19:45
Probably get slated here but the parents give me the creeps, not at all sure whether they were involved or not, but their demeanour leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion, and it's this I suspect correctly or incorrectly that lead people to their own conclusions.

Not just me then. I do believe that if they’d from the local council estate their other kids would have been straight into care. Two doctors not prepared to pay for the baby sitting service available? I doubt what ever happened to Madeline will ever be known, the other kids must have lived very strange lives since, but IMHO rhe parents were guilty of neglect and should have been subject to the same treatment any other parents would have received for neglecting their children.

SND

A320ECAM
12th May 2019, 19:54
I believe, having watched the latest Netflix documentary, that the parents killed Maddy (allegedly) by overdose as they were medicating all three children at night so they could go out and get bladdered.

* nb: the allegedly is there for legal reasons.

KelvinD
12th May 2019, 22:57
Did the Netflix documentary mention Mrs. McCann's job at the time?
She was an anaesthetist!

ramble on
13th May 2019, 01:51
There are some evil, sadistic and perverse people that have zero empathy for other beings and I pray that karma will visit for their reckoning here or hereafter.
The McCanns are much like the Chamberlains where the dingo took the baby at Ayers Rock. Aweful people said outrageous things about that family already destroyed by the boundless grief of a child lost so terribly.