Virgin Atlantic Seat Selection

[TimGriff6]

I've just booked some PE seats for the late Summer (London to USA) partly because Virgin advertise in at least two different places on their web site that seat choice is free and available from the time of booking. Having made the booking, I find that I cannot choose seats and by an e-mail exchange, customer service tell me that I won't be able to choose seats until 1st June.
Has anyone else had this experience or am I just unlucky?

[TCAS FAN]

They've been embargoing seat selection for some time, limiting it to 90 days or less before departure. According to an email I received recently, they will be charging £25 to pre-select a seat on booking, effective 1 April. Looks as if Virgin is going the lo-co route, what next are they to charge for. I've been loyal to them for many years, am now looking at alternatives.

[TimGriff6]

They are making changes which include charging if you want to choose economy seats before a certain date but from the web site for PE, this is not applicable ie:-

Advanced seat assignment

Published 21/11/2013 02.44 PM | Updated 31/12/2013 10.37 AM
Will I need to pay to choose my seats in advance?

• If you are in Upper Class, Premium Economy or Economy booked in Y Class you can choose your seat free of charge any time from making your booking.

When you ask them about it they just ignore this statement and say that no-one can choose seats before 1st June. They also ignore the following and say that it is wrong:-
Selecting Seats and Exceptions


Published 17/12/2007 03.01 PM | Updated 23/12/2013 02.19 PM

If you already have a booking to fly in April seats can be assigned up to 30 days before departure. For flights departing and booked after 1 April seats can be chosen free of charge on booking or up to 336 days in advance.

It is difficult to see what their policy is.

[baggersup]

If any Virgin pax are considering switching to BA to avoid this, that's frying pan into the fire.

For several years BA has not offered seat selection at the time of paid reservation, even for business pax.

On BA to get seat selection when booking, you have to have status in their frequent flier program, with a few other variations in rules according to status level.

For all but status pax, it's no-cost seat selection at 24 hours before departure when on-line check-in begins.

Some of us regular pax in Club World who don't have status have been purchasing the seat we want for several years now. And as more and more people join their status levels, especially the millions from OneWorld partners, to wait until online check-in at 24 hours is deadly on some routes.

BA have pretty much trained a lot of their regular pax to buy seats up front when we pay for the ticket. The rest of the good seats get snuffled by status pax.

It's not cheap either--it's $120 a seat (U.S.) each way for some business seats.

Virgin has long been much easier with this--especially giving seat selection to non-status premium pax, which BA has not done since about 2009 or 2010 if memory serves.

[Ancient Observer]

Any truth in the rumour that Virgin have placed a big order with Samsung for new pay-as-you-go locks on its toilet doors?

They are determined to make this innovation before O'Mouthy does.

[llondel]

I've already expressed my opinion to Virgin CS on the move to charging. I wonder what happens if you're a family group of three or four - they guarantee to seat children with an adult, but nowhere do they say they'll try to seat the whole group together.

[fa2fi]

To be honest it's nice to have the option. It's a nightmare trying to not get stuck in a middle seat on American airlines unless you have status, same for BA. If you're not a regular traveller it gives you the option.

[SealinkBF]

Why are they doing this?
Presumably because offering seat selection for free up to know was not differentiating them from BA (who have charged for some time.)

People make all sorts of noises when new charges come in, but then we pay them and it clearly, in the long run, didn't do BA any harm.

What's a loss making competitor to do?

[RevMan2]

Air New Zealand appears to be somewhat more sophisticated in their gouging...er..offering passenger the opportunity to purchase a Preferred seat...
This is a con?? | You Must Be From Away (http://youmustbefromaway.com/2014/01/08/this-is-a-con/)

[Tray Surfer]

baggersup,

For several years BA has not offered seat selection at the time of paid reservation, even for business and first pax.

Whilst you are correct about Club World, you are incorrect for First. All passengers ticketed in First have seat selection at the time of booking.

[mixture]

Virgin has long been much easier with this--especially giving seat selection to non-status premium pax, which BA has not done since about 2009 or 2010 if memory serves.

Simple.

Virgin carry 5m passengers a year.
BA carry 30m passengers a year.

Hence the reason BA need to focus on status passengers for seat selection priority, otherwise it would be one big fight. Virgin can afford to be flexible because they are a (relativley) tiny airline. They don't even feature in the top 10 of passengers carried. If Virgin ever manage to reach the top 10, my money's on them making stuff like seat selection more difficult.

[PAXboy]

The amusing converse is that, as they build themselves up, EZY have made seat selection possible, then easier!

[mixture]

EZY's business model is somewhat different.

[PAXboy]

Indeed, but their business model has recently changed to try and differentiate themselves from their competition. So I thought it an amusing conincidence that two very different companies show us that there is very little left to play with.

It occurs to me that we now have four main categories:


Legacy carriers still trying to do it all
Legacy carriers trying to charge where they can
Low cost carriers trying to upscale what they charge for
Ultra low cost carriers trying to downscale everything

Some carriers will cover more than one category, depending on their Long / Medium / Short haul / and mixed ops.

[Malone]

VS will try to seat family groups together (as do BA) but they have to be on the same booking I believe. This makes the whole thing easier for all concerned, saving any hassle on date of travel. They cannot guarantee this but they will do their best.
Of course, if there is a problem, you are at the mercy of the check-in staff and the willingness of them to actually provide some sort of customer service. This will invariably be where "the wheels fall off" and all the trouble starts!!

[LadyL2013]

I will want to be selecting seats for May ASAP, nothing worse than being stuck in the middle row for a long flight. It's inevitable that all the big scheduled carriers will go down the route of charging for everything whilst not lowering costs. It's a shame really. I always put carriers like BA and VS above the charters because of actually getting something for your money (meal, entertainment, drinks) rather than having to fork over £2.50 for a cup of tea *cough* Thomson *cough* when you've already paid more than enough for the flight.

[fincastle84]

I always pay to reserve my Club seats on BA when flying to Kenya, South Africa & USA. In the overall cost of the trip I'm happy to pay that bit extra to ensure that our vacation begins & ends in comfort. On our annual BA/ Amex reward flight in First we don't have to pay for the seat reservation.

Horses for courses as always.

[TimGriff6]

'Published 17/12/2007 03.01 PM | Updated 23/12/2013 02.19 PM

If you already have a booking to fly in April seats can be assigned up to 30 days before departure. For flights departing and booked after 1 April seats can be chosen free of charge on booking or up to 336 days in advance.'

Well you didn't believe us did you? We meant 25th June not 1st April. (updated 31/3/2014)

[PAXboy]

TimGriff6
For flights departing and booked after 1 April seats can be chosen free of charge on booking or up to 336 days in advance.Really? I booked two weeks ago for November in PE (cash + a companion seat) and was told I could book (and pay) for seats on/after June 1st.

[papershuffler]

I've already expressed my opinion to Virgin CS on the move to charging. I wonder what happens if you're a family group of three or four - they guarantee to seat children with an adult, but nowhere do they say they'll try to seat the whole group together.

I worked in resort for Virgin Sun. The handling agent made it a habit of :mad: up the pre-booked seat allocations so children were allocated away from adults. It took half a :mad: season to sort out as the airport manager was a particular shade of dull and didn't figure out what the agents were doing wrong, or actively sought to do anything about it.

I still have nightmares about being the only rep on the desk, and trying to sort out 180 seat allocations with pax swarming around me.:\

Comes second only last minute check-in desk changes, and screaming at 200+ pax to 'not move a muscle', having to shift them across the airport in groups, with prospective line-jumpers trying to ram me out of the way with their trolleys. I had bruises along my calves for weeks.:*

[TimGriff6]

Before 22/12/13, according to the website you could choose seats in PE at the time of booking.

On 23/12/13, the date on which you can choose seats was changed to 1/4/14.

Now it is 25/6/14 as described in the information about booking seats section of the website.

It may have been 1/6/14 for a period when Paxboy booked.

It will probably change again. Moral is - don't believe what you see written on the VA website.

[TimGriff6]

All mention of being able to choose seats from 25/6/14 has now been removed from the web site (update on 17/6/14).
It's now showing as being available 60 days before departure.
What will the next change be?

[PAXboy]

The only certainty is that - by the time they allow me to book seats - the ones I want will be gone. :hmm:

The A346 config has only five full rows of PE. Given advisory restrictions (foot space / toilets / etc) there are only two (possibly three) rows in which I would like to sit. Given, further, that I always prefer the Port side for the trip in question, there are a maximum of three pairs of seats. I hope to get one of those three pairs to give my companion the best view and experience of the trip.

My guess is that others think the same way! In the past, I've always been able to book seats at the time of booking. I almost don't mind paying extra to book seats but I want to book!!

I'm getting old ... :*

[Background Noise]

All mention of being able to choose seats from 25/6/14 has now been removed from the web site (update on 17/6/14).
It's now showing as being available 60 days before departure.
What will the next change be?

Not only that but the link provided to 'changes to the way you choose your seats in advance' links to a page that is not available. All a bit poor if you've just paid for an Upper Class flight I would think.

[TimGriff6]

And to update it, on the 60 day before you travel (actually 60 days plus a few hours) when you are finally allowed to try to pick seats from the map, it tells you that you can't have those ones and are stuck with the ones that you have been allocated. Unfortunately, there is no indication of which ones you have been allocated and 50% are by now greyed out and not available. You think that perhaps you need to re-visit the site just after the departure time 60 days before as you would for a 24 hour check-in.

Don't do that! If you do leave it until then, you'll find that you still can't see what you have been allocated and the only available seats are middle ones and you can't sit together.

Over promising and under delivering is a sure fire way to hack off your customers - I wonder whether the people at Virgin who make the decisions about this sort of thing really understand that?

[Background Noise]

D - 60 Update.

Today is trip minus 60, so checked 'manage my booking' first thing this morning and it was exactly as TG6 described. No obvious display of seats but the seat map was available. Clicked the 2 seats we wanted and pressed 'submit'. The message came back that we could not have those seats and were stuck with the ones we had - but it didnt show which seats we had and all of the seats reverted to being available on the map.

I phoned the reservation number (which incidentally has its own error where you get stuck in a press button 3 loop) and the chap said that is what happens right up until exactly the time of departure on day minus 60. He acknowledged the poor website behaviour and that there is no indication this anywhere on the site. He said to wait until the exact departure time.

Checked again closer to the time (but still prior to departure time) and this time it would apparently take the seat selection. Still no obvious display of seat numbers on the flight itinerary page but when I now click on 'view or change seats' it shows our seat numbers in the boxes against our names. Still there when I log out and back in again - so hopefully .....

[PAXboy]

This fills me with forboding for the November trip. For my companion, it will be her first (and probably only) to South Africa and she has paid extra for PE.

Background Noise
Still there when I log out and back in again - so hopefully ..... But are they seats you wanted???

[Background Noise]

Yes they are - at the time I first got on to the site no other seats were shown as reserved (which is in itself a bit worrying unless everyone else was still in bed).

In fact there all of the other seats in that cabin are still showing as available, so who knows.

[ExXB]

Thanks for the update guys. Reinforced my view not to use this Virgin in any way. If they can't get something like this to work, what about their aircraft? (Rhetorical question).

[PAXboy]

One of the things that has always suprised me about VS is their poor web service. I am a long standing customer (never an employee or shareholder) but their web services have always been poor.

Given that the Virgin Group are based on being 'disruptive' it is ironic that this part of the Group do not do well with the most disruptive technology of the last n decades. :hmm:

Ttoday, via email, they again are trying to 'upsell' me with their add-on services of limo etc. but the one thing I would be prepared to pay for - they do not offer. :ugh:

[cjhants]

Logged on lunchtime, selected my PE seats, all done in about 30 seconds:O

[Ancient Observer]

Have Upper class booked for SWMBO and I in Jan.

Rang up, (as the website would do nothing that I could understand).
Their website is monumentally useless.

There is a recorded message that says they have mucked up their IT again and have no idea when it will be sorted.

Waited on hold for 33 mins to get through to ask about the 25/6 debacle, and nice lady told me that they have no idea when it will be resolved, if it ever will be.

So 60 days.

And their website only works tolerably well with IE, not with FF.

[Background Noise]

Still looking good - other seats are now unavailable so it looks like we've got what we wanted.

[Heathrow Harry]

or you'll get bumped........ :{:{

[Level bust]

Don't know what everyone is complaining about. 60 days before my outbound flight to San Francisco today, logged on and booked our seats. Apart from the new 60 day rule there is no change as to what happened previously.

Recently flew short haul with BA in Club and couldn't reserve my seat until 24 hours before the flight. Looking at long haul on their website it appears to be the same unless you opt to pay.

It seems to me there are a few people that just like to have it in for Virgin Atlantic or Richard Branson.

[PAXboy]

You are correct Level bust in that some folks do have it in for Virgin Group and SRB - just as many folks have it in for BA and WW.

I am not one of them. In fact, I have been accused in these forums of supporting VS too far and being an apologist for them and SRB. I am a long term, satisfied customer. Which is why I am so irritated by their failures. VS have been my first choice of long haul for [scratches head] over 20 years. To not have your website working better than others is beyond words of stupidity for all those involved.

I am glad to hear that the 60 days has worked out for others and have the date in my diary to try and get the seats I want.

[TimGriff6]

I'd just like to say that I don't 'have it in' for Virgin or Richard Branson. My problem was that given a choice between two carriers, I chose the one that offered something that I valued. To find after paying that it was not actually being offered was, to me, over promising and under delivering at the very least (or deceitful at worst). Originally, I was curious to know whether it was just my mistake but finding out that it wasn't, I would bear that experience in mind in future.

The current state of the web site is clearly somewhat variable. It may improve, making it a neutral factor in future choices. If it doesn't, it will be another negative factor.

[Ancient Observer]

Over promising and under delivering is a customer service sin and the people responsible should be fired.
However, lying is worse, and anyone doing that in customer service jobs should be fired and their cv impacted for ever.

The only problem with my theory is that there would now be no one to work in customer service.
They do it cos they can . Customers must complain more.

[TimGriff6]

'Don't know what everyone is complaining about. 60 days before my outbound flight to San Francisco today, logged on and booked our seats. Apart from the new 60 day rule there is no change as to what happened previously.'

I waited until 60 days, to the minute, to choose seats for the return flight - by then 73% of the seats were already taken/greyed out, no seats were showing as being allocated to me so once again, I have ended up being somewhat aggrieved. I'm guessing that they came on line at midnight 60 days before departure based on dates & UK (GMT) time or midnight 60 days before based on time at the departure airport - who knows?

Has anyone logged into their booking and seen the seats which have been allocated before choosing them? Exactly which seats (or how many) on a Gatwick 747 are removed from self selection until check-in time?

[Level bust]

In my case they became available at 0800, but I didn't log on until about 1000 by which time only about 3 people had reserved their seats which was in premium Economy.

I guess it depends on what flight you are booked on. If your Upper Class on a B747 out of Gatwick there are only 14 seats available anyway.

[TimGriff6]

There are 66 seats on the Gatwick 747's, a third upstairs & the rest downstairs. Close to 50 of those had gone by the time I checked - I can't believe that there are that many people who have picked seats so that is why I wondered how many are held back.

[Ancient Observer]

The reason that I am pissed off with Virgin is that when I booked my Upper Class return they told me I could select seats from 25/6.

They apparently had no intention of allowing that.

I do not want to be rude about the Bearded Billionaire. I just want his Co.s to deliver on their promise.

[cjhants]

Another update. I logged on yesterday morning and selected my PE seats from UVF on 21.9.14. Only a few already taken, and job done in a few clicks.

As mentioned above, it seems the seats are available from about 8am 60 days before you travel, you do not have to wait until the time of your departure in 60 days time.

[PAXboy]

Is that 8am British Time on -60 days?

[cjhants]

PAXboy - yes.

I logged on at about 0830 BST for a flight leaving UVF 1625 local (so 2025 BST?)

[garybell]

Virgin Atlantic Belfast-Orlando

Have tried to book seats for next June/July but can only see outbound flights.

Anyone else having more success ?

[Background Noise]

You can only book seats within 60 days of the flight.

[PAXboy]

garybell Just to clarify - are you looking at booking your tickets, or have you got the tickets and now trying to book specific seats?

[garybell]

Paxboy thanks

Sorry Trying to book flights - not seats.

Have now been informed by Virgin chatline that flights can't be booked more than 11 months in advance. So although the outbound flights are for sale now the return flights don't go on sale until August. Crazy or what?

[TCAS FAN]

Is the 60 day issue related to flexibility with aircraft changes on schedules?

Mrs TCAS is a very nervous passenger and still remembers Virgin's "we only fly with four engines". When trying to book to the Caribbean next April we found that one day a week there was a 747 operating rather than the b***dy awful A330. Booked the flights only to be told a month later that the return flight departure had changed. Went into the booking and found that they'd now also substituted a 330 for the 747, Mrs TCAS not impressed!

[deep_south]

Garybell, Virgin isn't unusual in having a "booking window" - for Virgin it is 330 days out, so yes - outbound flights are "bookable" before the return flights are....

Which does lead to interesting situations - for example, Virgin Holidays will "sell" flights further out than that, but it won't be ticketed until into the 330 day window...

And regarding the 60 day window - nope, aircraft are "usually" scheduled way ahead of that. The current 60 day window developed by "accident"; you used to be able to request seats at time of booking - up to 330 days out. They must really regret announcing the "payable" reservations before they have even thought about the details of how they would implement it...

[PAXboy]

deep_southThey must really regret announcing the "payable" reservations before they have even thought about the details of how they would implement it... Sales people on a percentage are like that. When I was working for a mobile phone company in Munich, the sales people thought up a whole new 'offer' and started to tell the retailers about it before asking the IT department whether it was even possible ...

garybell Yes, it can be annoying but they have to release flights for booking at some stage and there will often be a time when the return you want is below that horizon.

TCAS FAN The 'Four For Long Haul' was an Airbus slogan that they put around 'against' the 777 which was then chewing into their 340 sales. Subsequently, the market has moved - and the market is the carriers not the pax! Us oldies tend to prefer x4 engines but the younger generations have only known/will know the 767/777/787/330/350. The 340/380 will be around but the minority. However, the statistics show that the x2 config is reliable.

[mixture]

Subsequently, the market has moved - and the market is the carriers not the pax! Us oldies tend to prefer x4 engines but the younger generations have only known/will know the 767/777/787/330/350. The 340/380 will be around but the minority.

Oh the oldies and their misguided views.... :rolleyes:

Supply and demand... the passengers create the market for seats which creates the market for aircraft !

Your average cheapskate passenger these days wants to stick their backside on a seat for the least cost possible.

Four engines = higher maintenance costs = higher fuel costs = higher seat prices the passengers won't pay !

The other reason the larger aircraft operate fewer routes is ...yes, that's right ... DEMAND ! :)

If you're not going to be able to generate a large enough load factor at your average price to be able to break-even (or preferably turn a profit) on a larger aircraft then the smaller aircraft makes better business sense !

[PAXboy]

mixture, if you are referring to me as an 'oldie', then I agree. But I'm not sure why you then lecture:

Supply and demand... Indeed, I said, the market has moved

Your average cheapskate passenger these daysIndeed, I said, the market has moved

Four engines = ... = higher seat prices the passengers won't pay !Indeed ...

The other reason the larger aircraft operate fewer routes is ...yes, that's right ... DEMAND ! :)
Indeed ...

So, I may be old but I don't think I gave 'misguided opinions' but you probably meant someone else.

[mixture]

PAXboy

How about the words.....

Us oldies tend to prefer x4 engines but the younger generations have only known/will know the 767/777/787/330/350. The 340/380 will be around but the minority. However, the statistics show that the x2 config is reliable.

I see plenty of misguided opinions there...:cool:

Seems quite obvious you are bemoaning the loss of your beloved 4x engine aircraft on various routes and that you unnecessarily doubt the reliability of 2x engines (resorting to "the statistics show").

[fincastle84]

Not forgetting that Rolls Royce are now producing engines with such phenomenal power that couldn't have been dreamed of even 15 years ago! Therefore 2 engines are capable of producing more power than 4 on say the 74.

Big isn't always beautiful. Club world on the upper deck on BA's 747 is much preferable to that on the A380.:cool:

[PAXboy]

I was able to book my seats for November, although their clock put it at something like -59 days and 12 hours. Howsoever, I got the seats I wanted. Now to wait until the return secot is available.

For a premium service, not so clever.

[PAXboy]

VS did well today: I got a call to see if there wa ask:


Was I ready for my trip on xxxday?
Was there aything else they could help me with?

There were a couple of small questions that were not urgent but he answered promptly and I told him that this was the first time (as a PE) customer that I'd had this enquiry.

For that, they scored top marks.

[Jimlad1]

I had a similar experience on our PE trip and used the call to book an on the phone one way upgrade to UC on our return leg for a fraction of the cost of the airport upgrade charge.

Excellent PE product and really enjoyed flying it, and would happily do so again.

[jayteeto]

I have received "Anything we can help you with?" phone calls many times from Virgin. Often the in-resort rep does this. They don't allow you to online check in with infants, this caused us a lot of stress last time. However, if you are organised, you should not have problems getting seats allocated. Set an alarm on your phone to remind you at 0800 when to do the allocation. I set mine in January for next years flight, its not rocket science.............
Oh yes, chill out a little. These 'problems' are a bit of overkill :ooh: If you have a ticket, you will get a seat.......

[deep_south]

By the way, VS went "live" with the new system few days ago. so you now request (and pay for, if relevant) seats more than 60 days out. The only exceptions seem to be for some flights a long way into the future where the a/c type isn't confirmed yet

[Ancient Observer]

I rang about my seats for V200 mid Jan earlier this week.

Told them all about the failed promises of the past.

Allocated seats according to my preference for both outbound and return (201). (March return).

[TimGriff6]

Thanks for the info about the new system going live. I've just tried it and it worked fine for me in exactly the way that they said it would last December. It's such a shame that it took so long to get it right.

ps JT2 - I know that if I have a ticket, I will almost certainly get a seat but I much prefer choosing who I sit jammed up against with for over 12 hours rather than being given someone at random - not everyone who can afford to fly is good company

[PAXboy]

On my most recent trip (two weeks ago) we had to postpone by 24 hrs (illness) and I can say that the JNB call centre were brilliant. We had expected to land up in just any old seats and as the PE cabin is small, we accepted that. However, we got ideal seats and the trip went well.

On the other hand, dealing with 'customer services' to get proof of the delay and payment made to make the insurance claim? Automated misery.

[Level bust]

According to the Virgin website it was last updated in November 2014 so I don't think they have just changed it again, unless you know something I can't see.

Also as you have air miles you must be a flying club member. If you're Red you can book your seats 72 hours in advance, 14 if Silver and when you book if you're Gold.

[G-ARZG]

At least you'll have a B787-9 on VS LHR-HKG from 5 July
(depends if you think that's a good thing or not?)

[S.o.S.]

Welcome Paultheparaglider. Do check with the search option as topics tend to be posted here very promptly. Looking back through this thread should give all the answers.

[Paulok]

I have already cancelled flights on VS from Dubai and switched to Ek and will not use virgin again until they review this. We travel as family and book in advance so why should we be penalized for booking seats together. It's no fun for the check in staff or the CC to have to try and sort out seat disputes.