SAA is going down the Drain!

[Vlamgat]

Dear SAA

I would like to thank you for your ever increasing gross Incompetence!! I am sick to my stomach of the Amount of Damage you cause every Day! I am Sick of the losses created by you and when asked to Sort those losses out you just shrug your shoulders!! The Stories and Comments that are about to follow Are happenings within a three week period flying aboard your aircraft! Let me Just state before I start that I, Myself and Me am an Airline Pilot, and so are my friends so there is no real way of replying with Cockamamy Answers as we know exactly how everything Works

Three weeksago myself and two colleagues flew to Sao Paulo for our Yearly Simulator recurrency’s The flight there was quite amazingly uneventful, however on the way back boarding the aircraft we were greated by a bunch of rather unfriendly staff! getting onboard I got the feeling that we should just sit down and shut up before we get wrapped on the nuckles! The seat belt signs were on for 95% of the flight whereas there was no real turbulence to speak of, we were not flying through cloud or visible moisture! i would describe the worst of the turbulance as very light chop at worst! Yet the seatbelt sign were burning brightly! So after a while people needed to get up and visit the restroom, just to be repremanded over the intercom by the “Incharge” not only making them feel like little children but also waking up those who were trying to sleep! We were also told to close the shutters and to keep them closed as there were other passiongers onboard who needed sleep!! Surely that is the choice of the passenger seated by the window whether they would like them open or closed (Except for take off or landing) Then the crew has the audacity of Hauling out the old Duty free Trolley, proceeding to do Sales just after the incharge repremanded passengers to remain seated to ensure their own safety! Now let me tell you, if there were any danger to the passengers by way of turbulence, can you imagine how much damage a 200kg purfume laden Trolley can cause that is flying through the Air!! I mean Really!! I would rather be hit by a 100kg Passenger!! Further to this, we were seated in the midsection of that A346 where it became incredibly hot during the flight! The passengers were fanning themselves and I was sweating! Being rather uncomfortable at that stage I went to the hostee station and asked the hostee very politely to just turn down the heat in that section! She did not even reply verbally, she picked up the intercom and dialled a number! I never had a reply and the heat was never turned down! Horrible uncomfortable flight! Arriving in JHB I waited at the conveyer belt for half an hour, just to receive my suitcase Cut open from end to end and held together by Duct tape! My Brand new R4800 Bose Sound System Pinched, never to be seen again! Add R700 for the suitcase the total Damage received R5500! Nice! Thank you SAA! And you dont give refunds for Damage caused do you?? Noooo! Let me tell you, As soon as the Carrier takes my Suitcase it Becomes the responsibility of the Carrier to ensure no damage or loss is caused to my Luggage!! Thank You SAA

A Few Days after Returning From Sao Paulo, unfortunately I had to board another flight on SAA Bound for Libreville, Gabon for A two month Flying Contract! Accompanying me, yet again my Colleagues and Hostees, other crewmembers from other Airlines, Contract crew working as Divers on the oil rigs, Etc, Etc! Yet again we received the old SAA Sparklingly Lovely Hospitality (NOT) How do you pick these people that work for you?? I guess the only requirement is that they must be Black, because these people have no idea on how to work with people, They have no personality or skill!! Maybe you should screen them a bit better and check them before you just let them handle your “Guests”

Anyway, Arriving at Libreville, Exactly as I pictured it, None of my Two Suitcases Arrived! I Had A full suitcase of Frozen Meat as Good meat is very hard to obtain here! Total cost of the meat, R2500, Neatly packed in a R800 Suitcase, Total Loss R3300 as I arrived here on Saturday and it is Now Tuesday, And I Still have not received my Luggage or even a phone Call from Anyone Apologiseing or telling me when it will arrive, Therefore I will have to throw away that Suitcase too!! My Colleagues Have also not received their luggage or meat or clothes! We have had the same clothes on our bodies for the past few days!! Buying clothes here is Super expensive and we just cannot afford futher Losses!! Onboard were divers That Lost their Diving equipment, So thy cannot do their work!! The Cabin overhead Lockers were Packed Full as SAA does not check how much Hand Luggage these Passenger have with them, The hand Luggage also does not get weighed and Tagged as appropriate and Legal! A Maximum of 5KG is allowed per passenger, yet you totally turn a blind eye to this! This A structural Limitation on the Aircraft!!! If the Bins are overloaded it can cause damage to the Aircraft! It is also a Safety Issue, should things really start flying around in turbulence!! The Latches are not designed to take these stresses which can cause the overhead lockers to open During flight! I have seen people struggling to get their hand luggage down from the Lockers! I estimate that some of them weighed in excess of 20KG!! Now let us think about how this affects the weight and Balance and performance of the aircraft!! So, I Believe this Aircraft is configured to Carry 124 Passengers, Let us Assume and average overload of 5KG per passenger Which, on This flight I believe to be a Rather Conservative estimate, The aircraft overhead lockers are then Overloaded by 620KG!!! This means that these figures were never entered into the Aircraft Loading Data! My Assumption would be that the Aircraft is then Flown Beyond its Maximum All Up Weight, Therefore should an Engine Failure occur, it would make for a Rather messy Day in SAA History.

We were Last to get onboard and I managed to at least put my valuables under the seat infront of me, The Divers however were not as Lucky, Their Fragile equipment and Divers certificates were Shoved into the cargo Hold, They were told if they did not give up their luggage they would be chucked off the Aircraft! They were then told that their Hand Luggage Would be handed back to them Personally! They never received their Hand Luggage! They Are sitting in A Hotel here in Libreville, Paying their own Accommodation as they Are not allowed on the Rigs without their Certificates and Equipment!! Imagine the Financial Losses they are experiencing because of your gross incompetence!!! Imagine the losses to their families and Children!!

I have been at the Airport every single time an SAA Flight was inbound! I still do not have my Luggage!! I am Fortunate enough to be able to have unrestricted movement on the Airport!! On each of your flights at Least forty people were waiting in Cues to report their Luggage!! People that Paid Excess Charges!! But no!! SAA Rather elects to Load Cargo and Take the Excess Luggage Fees, But do not deliver the passengers Luggage!! This is NOT a thing that happens every now and Then!! this has become a Standard Thing For SAA, And You just shrug your shoulders!!

Total Loss For me (Only This Month) Flying on SAA Roundabout R8800.00 This is Money that you take out of my Mouth and that of my Family, never mind the Tax That I pay that SAA takes to continuously to fund their huge expenditures and huge Workforce!! 200 employees per Aircraft where the World Standard is 60!! How do you justify creating jobs like that and funding it out of my Pocket??

If you Think that This little Note that I wrote here is all that I am going to do, You have obviously not met the likes of me! I will be taking my story to every corner of the earth! I have vowed to let the world know how SAA Conducts business! I am not Going to rest until I know that you are Hurting because of Declining Passenger Figures! The World will know!! Watch This Space!!

[Capetonian]

I thought when I saw the title of this posting that it might be a well-reasoned and properly written overview of the reasons why SAA has gone to the dogs.

The kindest thing I can say about this is that it isn't.

[fly1981]

eish…..little bit of a melt down there. That suitcase of yours must smell amazing by now!!!

[November Mike]

SAA - a complete waste of tax payers money and space on any apron! Pull the plug and let's be done with the loss making bottomless pit of embarrassment

[Ghost_Rider737]

Vlamgat -

Sadly some of what you say is true. Send an email to

[email protected]

Also try the baggage tracer

World Tracer ? South African Airways (http://www.flysaa.com/za/en/flyingSAA/baggage/worldTracer.html)

"My Brand new R4800 Bose Sound System Pinched, never to be seen again! Add R700 for the suitcase the total Damage received R5500! " we have to consider whether his could have happened in LBV ? But I do agree that the airline needs to tighten security in the baggage department at all stations.

I also had an experience flying back from holiday in Mauritius.
My wife's checked in luggage arrived on the carousel in the same fashion , duct taped and damaged off course. A watch and a perfume was stolen. No re-course from SAA as it was ACSAs problem . The baggage security is not handled by SAA. I'm convinced the bag wasn't broken in to in Mauritius.

I really hope the winds of change sweep through this "potentially" world class airline.

[flying paddy]

Dear Vlamgat, just to let you know that a few pilots here in Gabon, think that you are talking utter :mad:. To many details to correct and we can't really be bothered, but best get your story correct before you spout off.

No one heard you complain when you got an upgrade on that very same flight by a black hostee.


Ps suggest you 120 drivers set a better standard before criticising others.

[Vlamgat]

Flying Paddy! Best you contact me personally! would love to have a whoo Haa with you if you are up to it!!

[TWT]

My last 2 long haul flights (11hr) with SAA on the A340 were good in cattle class.The cabin crew were helpful and even smiled a lot.Things get stolen from baggage all over the world,the lesson is : don't put valuables in there !

[lilflyboy262...2]

Going down? I thought it was gone.

Vlam, not criticizing, but are you the lovely person I met in Botswana in 2010/2011? Or is that person your F/O? I see them on Facebook complaining about lost luggage too.

Also, the lost baggage they are responsible for replacing. The damaged baggage however, they are not. It is part of the limited liability that you agree with when you purchase the ticket. This is standard around the world with most airlines.
Its one of the reasons why you get travel insurance.

You'll also find that passengers are given a standard weight which includes their carry on luggage. So unless everyone on board was overweight by a significant amount, then you will probably find that you weren't overloaded.
I also challenge you, that in some point in your career (I don't expect an honest reply), that you haven't flown overweight at some point... Either by fudging the figures, or by using standard weights but knowing that all your pax on board weren't standard.
It's best if the pot doesn't call the kettle black.

Luggage bins aren't structural. But you are on the money with the locks not being able to handle it if overloaded by a significant amount.

I totally agree with you on the cabin crew. I think it is a bit hit and miss with what you get. I have had good and bad. My parents however, have only had terrible. The older A340s are an embarrassment as well. Badly need an overhaul.

[cavortingcheetah]

It's probably not a massively mental operation to be able to work out which company employs the OP. One hopes that he and his colleagues were not on ID tickets. Whilst all passengers are entitled to the same quality of treatment, if someone at SAA does the maths then any ticket price concessions and privileges might be rapidly withdrawn as a reprisal.
Would anyone at SAA read these pages? Well yes, certainly a pilot might. Who knows, but one needs sometimes to be careful about the dog and the hand. Of course, all punters might have been travelling as fully paid up F ticket holders in which case -- one can disregard this letter.

[Vlamgat]

Guys!

My apologies if I have Directly offended Anyone!! That was not my Intention! The Fact of the matter is that I am Hurt and Upset by all that has happened! I am not only writing this for myself but also for the other 15 or so crew members that have flown on this route in the past month! We have all had big financial losses due to the happenings described above!! This IS happening on a daily basis, as if this is some kind of standard!!

Please do put yourselves in Our shoes! We have lost money, equipment, Food etc etc. all our planning for our time up here on Tour has gone to the Pigs!! I want SAA to get their act together! In Five days I have not even had a single reply from them regarding my baggage!! Now Do you really think this is Fair!!?? And I say Again, It is not just me, there are so many others!!

Please think about this post as if it happened to you personally..................

[Capetonian]

The mark of SAA in recent years has been a total lack of consistency in service. I don't fly with them much now, partly for this reason and partly because they no longer offer CPT-LON nonstop. The last flights I did with them on that route were so different it could have been two utterly different airlines. The crew out on the A346 were stunning, cheerful, helpful, friendly, and just wanted to make sure everyone enjoyed the flight. Three weeks later, on the return, sullen, arrogant, aggressive, and unhelpful. Both crew were almost exclusively young, and black, so nothing to do with age or race.

Now Do you really think this is Fair!!?
Jees, no. Have you heard the saying 'life's a bitch'. Nothing's fair. Live with it, deal with it.

[Trossie]

Typical Saffir responses here. Someone points out a glaring 'elephant in the room' problem and he gets criticised!! And told toLive with it, deal with it.

I am absolutely astounded that the situation that he is criticising should in any way be seen as 'normal' or something that anyone should be expected to 'live with'!! And from some of the posts it does seem a long way from unusual.

Over about 40 years I have flown on about 30 airlines to about 20 countries (right around the world, having crossed every line of longitude) on countless flights spending several hundred hours as a pax. I have never had my bags tampered with. On three occasions my bags have not met me on arrival, on two of those (on different continents) they were delivered to my hotel room that day, on one occasion it took an extra day to be delivered to my hotel room but on that occasion it was to a completely different country that was not part of my original ticket. I don't see how anyone can see the problems that Vlamgat had as being in any way acceptable, no matter what type of ticket he was travelling on. And to criticise him for complaining is astounding! Maybe the problem is that you people have got used to such low standards that you are ready to accept it all. Or is it that a bit of a North Korean attitude holds sway there that 'thou shalt not criticise'?

You are all going a long way to prove this might just be true: Hunt still on for nice South African (http://newsthump.com/2013/02/21/hunt-still-on-for-nice-south-african/).

[Capetonian]

It's not what he says, it's the way he says it. He has a justified complaint, nobody disputes that. It needs to be directed to the right department in the right manner. He also needs to understand the scope of the carrier's responsibility.

Let me add to that. If he addresses his complaints in the correct manner, without the rhetoric, simply stating the facts and what he expects to be done, he will get a sympathetic hearing and a fair resolution. If he rants and raves and sends a barely articulate diatribe of invective, he won't.

[Vlamgat]

Thanks Trossie! You have sommer made my day a Bit better!! I appreciate!!
Master CapeTonian, You must have a level nine in English, I have learnt new words today!! He he! I am just a Boerseun though and I Thought I was being quite articulate!! You and everyone has given valuable input, I just wanted to put it out there and Share and feel better about it too!!

[capster]

Hey Vlamgat!! You Should Try Using More Caps and Exclamation Marks!!! It Adds Weight and Credence to Your Complaint!!!!!! Have a Good Tour!!!!!!!! Remember to Pr!nt Out this Thread and Attach it to Your SAA CV!!!!!

[Evanelpus]

How do you pick these people that work for you?? I guess the only requirement is that they must be Black, because these people have no idea on how to work with people, They have no personality or skill!! Maybe you should screen them a bit better and check them before you just let them handle your “Guests”

This is racist in the extreme and I think you should modify this part of your original post.

As for putting expensive items in hold luggage, what were you thinking?

I hope this gets resolved to your satisfaction but I would suggest toning it down a bit if/when you contact SAA.

[Mobotu]

My man you just committed a cardinal sin! Thou shalt not criticize the national carrier! Let me just say outright that I feel sorry for the hand that life has dealt you this last month – did you swear a leprechaun perhaps? Firstly remember this is a PILOTS forum and most of the people reading these posts have either worked, work or have aspirations to work for SAA….or their families, friends, girlfriends, boyfriends……you get my point – difficult to find sympathy here – although you deserve it! While your grammar and spelling are not exactly to Walt Whitman’s standard and some of your comments are a little harsh and could be written more tactfully. On the other hand some of the people responding need to consider one of our fellow aviators sitting in a hotel for three days in the same clothes waiting for SAA to get their act together – this now common practice of offloading passengers baggage and taking cargo instead has to stop! What people fail to realize is that it is costing passengers thousands of dollars in inconvenience not to mention giving our industry an even worse image problem. What’s next? American Airlines already charge for ALL domestic checked baggage! How long before it becomes common practice all over the world? Possible solution for SAA…the P word! Ok I said it….just waiting for the flames!:mad:

[November Mike]

:ugh: Fact remains......SAA is an embarrassment to the airline industry as a whole. Dysfunctional from top to bottom and left to right.

All very well aspiring to fly for SAA as a pilot but how does it sit with you as an individual knowing full well that you're purportedly working for an entity that's hell bent on driving all competition into liquidation + continuously turning to the state's treasure trove to bail it out. A 20 year turn around program? No that's accountability for you! MBA students must love the material being spewed out by SAA to use for dissertations.

SAA = QE at its finest, the US's Federal Reserve bank should follow SAA's example

[Capetonian]

While British Airways is increasing capacity and frequencies on its lucrative route from London to Johannesburg, South African Airways has announced this week that it is trimming capacity to Heathrow.
From 28 March SAA will be replacing the A340-600 currently used on the route with an Airbus A330-200. As the A330-200 is smaller than the A340-600, it will result in a decrease in the seats available on the route.
The new aircraft will operate on SA235 at 7pm, the first of SAA’s two daily departures, as well as selected SA237 flights that depart at 9pm.
The move follows SAA’s controversial cancelling of its Cape Town-London route in 2013, and the selling off of a valuable morning landing slot at London Heathrow.
According to Tourism Update, SAA spokesperson Tlali Tlali said the decision was made "so that we are able to meet the expectations of our passengers". The airline has admitted that all its international routes are loss making.
In contrast, British Airways has recently expanded its offering to Johannesburg, with the introduction of A380 services to Johannesburg. It will also increase the daily flights to Cape Town during the winter, adding three additional flights per week to meet demand.
Last night, BA carried 1463 passengers out of a capacity of 1478 on its 4 flights ex CPT and JNB to LHR. (PLF 99%)

Last night, SA, carried 436 passengers out of a capacity of 539 on its 2 flights JNB to LHR. (PLF 81%)

Those figures are fairly typical of loads on the routes over the last few months, in both directions. I have seen far lower loads on SAA than the above. Whilst a high PLF is not necessarily an indicator of high yield, it does tell something, specially when we know by their own admission that SAA lose money on the London whilst BA have often said it is a highly profitable route.

Both airlines faces the same problem at opposite ends of the route, the aircraft sit for roughly 12 hours unused. BA has better connecting traffic options to and from LHR, other than that they compete on fairly equal terms.

SAA is run by ANC politicians for the benefit of their own kind. Snouts in the trough and all that, whereas BA is run by professionals.

(Figures approximate, and I could roughly estimate the yields but don't have time or energy to do so.)

[Loerie]

I have tried my very best to support SAA over the past 25-odd years of flying back and forth over the Atlantic,but over the past,say three/four years or so there has been a deterioration in cabin service and increase in theft from luggage (mine) and attitude (in my opinion) to passengers.I can think of many things like being "told" to close the blinds and being "instucted" to go to sleep whilst the poor passengers themselves cannot sleep because of the crew chatting and joking and laughing so loudly.Writing nice letters about these isssues and non-operative infotainment services to saacustomerservice makes no apparent difference,nor does one get any reply.On the plus side I have always felt comfortable with the actual flying and operation and perceived safety and lack of delays and good timekeeping.I now do my best to fly back and forth on a non-SA aircraft which is less convenient time-wise but more relaxing,which is importsant to me with my hard-earned Rands.A pity as I do believe that Local is Better to support if at all possible!

[Evanelpus]

Writing nice letters

Does absolutely nothing.

Vote with your feet and choose another carrier next time and do this again and again and hopefully someone, somewhere, in high office will notice numbers are starting to fall and question why. Maybe this won't work for SAA but you get my drift.

Problem is, a lot of people moan and go back for more....s'pose Ryanair is the classic case in point here.

[ian16th]

Last night, BA carried 1463 passengers out of a capacity of 1478 on its 4 flights ex CPT and JNB to LHR. (PLF 99%)

Last night, SA, carried 436 passengers out of a capacity of 539 on its 2 flights JNB to LHR. (PLF 81%)And no doubt the BA pax received a higher level of in flight service!

[evanb]

BA have often said it is a highly profitable route

As a matter of interest, where have BA actually said that? As far as I know, most airlines really avoid commenting on the profitability of individual routes.

[unstable load]

Vote with your feet and choose another carrier next time and do this again and again and hopefully someone, somewhere, in high office will notice numbers are starting to fall and ask for a bail-out.
There, fixed it for you.....:E

[Solid Rust Twotter]

...ask for yet another bail-out.


Corrected your correction, Mr Load.:}


Imagine how nice it would be if all businesses could factor in free money when planning for the future.

[TSHEKUDU]

Subject: Gigaba at the SONA Think you've seen it all? Well you isn't till you've seen this :mad:

Opening day for the South African parliament

This clown in stealing the education, professional competency and experiences of real captains...

This moron is the new CEO of South African Airways and has never been in an aircraft cockpit, doesn’t know one plane from another and here he is in a SAA Captains uniform..

Banana republic, we have arrived.







Malusi Gigaba, the Minister of Public Enterprises arrived at Parliament today for JZ's State of the Nation speech dressed in an SAA Captain's uniform.

That, my friends, is the state of this banana nation.

I would have thought he could be charged with impersonation? Surely you can't just don a uniform of a highly qualified rank and just wear it at Lib??? T.

[cavortingcheetah]

http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=220363&t=1&sid=9eccf14284662893ffebd9d6ac71556b

SONA fashion: Hits and misses - Cape Times | IOL.co.za (http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/sona-fashion-hits-and-misses-1.1647012#.UwrZX3m5Mds)

Mind you, and as a spot of thread drift not to be chased by the cheetah but doesn't Four Bahs Johnny Travolta have just a PPL?

[Solid Rust Twotter]

I would have thought he could be charged with impersonation...


Meh! Hardly worth pre flighting the outrage tricycle.

[unstable load]

I just can't get over how much he resembles a living cartoon...

[Ghost_Rider737]

Kudos to Mr Gigaba.....he is probably the ONLY politician to EVER don a pilots uniform ! He is a proud supporter of the SAA brand.

Without his input the airline would have been sold of to a middle eastern carrier ....and that my fellow South Africans would leave us with an even greater loss of jobs. Exactly the same scenario Qantas finds itself in at the moment....

There has been a substantial effort on the part of management to improve service on all levels , including pilferage , although most of us don't agree with the way in which the anti-pilferage campaign was carried out....nevertheless they are trying. Pilot interviews are on the rise and experienced people have been hired. 3000 hours + ....most with jet experience.

[Trossie]

Shouldn't this be in the "You know you are in Africa when..." thread?

...he is probably the ONLY politician to EVER don a pilots uniformWRONG!!! Both President Bushes in the USA were qualified pilots and Winston Churchill learnt to fly in 1913!! On your own 'patch' Jan Smuts was very much involved in aviation. Of course the Afrikaner Nats and the African Nats understand sod all about aviation, so that is probably what you are talking about.

Mr Cheetah, John Travolting is in this week's Flight International with his 'four bars'! However, at least he has a PPL! And as far as I am concerned, anyone who can fly a B707 can wear four bars if he likes (especially if he owns the aeroplane!)!!

But then we should probably remember that this clown in the photograph above is just in 'fancy dress' and doesn't really affect the real world 'out there' in any way. He's good to laugh at though.

[Capetonian]

that this clown in the photograph above is just in 'fancy dress' I find that deeply offensive.



To clowns!

[10Watt]

Seems to fit him though, surprised me.

[Ghost_Rider737]

THe "Bushes" and Mr Churchill didn't don a pilots uniform after becoming politicians . They did so before their days in politics.

My point is that there aren't any politicians around today , who support their national airline. Most , want to sell it off privately.
Mr Gigaba feels the exact opposite to any of his colleagues in other governments.

[cavortingcheetah]

Well then, which is it to be?
Is Gigaba a patriot for supporting the national airline or is he an idiot for promoting, in a clown like fashion, an extraordinarily cost ineffective parastatal which should be sold to the Nigerians as scrap?

[Trossie]

I am glad that my politicians are not wasting the taxes that I pay on propping up a 'national airline' that can't stand on its own two feet. If it can't support itself then it should be left to collapse by itself (as many other failing airlines have done in the past).

I am also glad that my politicians, while they might make fools of themselves in many other ways, do not make utter fools of themselves by turning up at parliament impersonating an airline pilot!!

[paully]

Coming back to the start and the comments of the OP..I had the misfortune to travel on the SAA 346 from LHR to CPT (when they did it) and we must have had the same crew..They were equally mixed racially, but I have to say it was the white crew who were vile...the seat belt signs went on abeam the coast of Spain and stayed on until Cape Town despite no turbulence or chop during the whole flight(Cowboy flight crew tbh). Same problem with window blinds etc..The heating seems to be one of their specialities, it was turned up and the cabin crew disappeared (the galley was like the Marie Celeste)and stayed so until an elderly lady fainted..then it got turnd down..Didnt have any baggage problems though, but would never fly with them again...light years in quality behind Easyjet or even Ryanair

Oh yes did have the temerity to write to the Chief Pilot (then Colin Jordaan) re the actions of the flight crew but never got a reply...quelle suprise:}..how they have fallen from the days of the `Orange Tail`:rolleyes:

[Ghost_Rider737]

Have we really fallen from the days of the Orange Tail ?

The days of the Orange Tail were pre democracy. It was a joke of an airline -when pilots were paid the same as train drivers.....The Orange Tail era paved the way for absolute corruption arms/ammunition and money laundering without recourse ! There was no recourse because people were afraid to question the Nats .....Less than 5% of South African people were allowed to vote and over 45% of South Africans had no electricity. Don't give me that orange tail B.S

All I'm saying is that we can see the cracks in post democracy and vote for better leadership. In the days of the orange tail SAA people had no choice !

[I.R.PIRATE]

When's your interview Mr.Rider?

[paully]

Oh do wind your neck in Rider..We are talking quality of service not politics, I am more than aware of the politics of the time, although from your rant, you appear to have problems making the difference :ugh:

[Capetonian]

Editorial in a recent issue of the Kept Arms. (WUESA's will know what that means!) For the others, it's the Cape Times.


A cunning plan to promote fear of flying the national airline (http://www.iol.co.za/blogs/john-scott-1.2499/a-cunning-plan-to-promote-fear-of-flying-the-national-airline-1.1652788#)
SA Airways don’t really want us as passengers. I think they would prefer it if we boycotted them and used other airlines instead.

This would enable them to shut down entirely, stop paying departing chief executives huge golden handshakes, and put an end to their annual losses.

Naturally they will deny this is their intention, but why scrap the direct Cape Town-to-London flight if not to chase all those travellers with an aversion to changing planes in Johannesburg into the arms of BA?

Now SAA have thought of a new stratagem to get rid of everyone with the faintest fear of flying. They want to reduce the number of flying hours necessary for a new second-level officer to sit in the cockpit from 1 500 to 250. The idea is that this will make it easier for black men and women to become pilots.

At present some 90 percent of SAA pilots are white which airline director Andile Khumalo called “a congress of white boys”. Personally I don’t mind whether they’re a congress of white, black or blue boys, or even green girls for that matter, so long as they’ve got a lot more flying hours under their belts than a mere 10 overseas return trips.

SAA’s present chief, Monwabisi Kalawe, said the 250-hour guys and gals would sit in the cockpit “to gain the necessary experience”.

Not while I’m in the passenger cabin, they won’t. I demand that everyone controlling my plane is fully experienced, and not in the process of becoming thereof. The last thing I want to do is put my life in the hands of someone doing a crash course.

What about painting a big L for learner on the fuselage of those aircraft with rookies who are still learning the difference between a joystick and a jackstaff? Watching them land and take off at the airport could provide a good Sunday afternoon’s entertainment for those viewers who are fortunate enough not to have family or friends on board.

Travel agents should also be able to warn clients whether the plane they are booking has any 250-hour pilots within reach of harm.

Like Chris Zweigenthal, head of the Airways Association of Southern Africa, we passengers need to know what these so-called second officers’ duties and responsibilities would be.

Would they just sit decoratively in the cockpit and draw a nice salary, or would they fiddle around with the instruments panel and press various knobs to see what then happened?

Worse, would they occasionally be given the controls and told to “take over”?

The good news for nervous travellers is that Cape Town International Airport has once again been voted the best in Africa, so they are pretty safe on the ground as long as they don’t take off above it.

And now if they want to fly to Sydney, they may no longer do so via SAA because the Australian airline Qantas has terminated its code-share agreement with SAA. This will save them having to worry about the flying hours of the cockpit crew. SAA-booked flights to Perth will however continue, for those still keen to reach the most isolated large city in the world, whatever the risks.

But with luck SAA will fly fewer and fewer routes, until there are none left and even the most dare-devil patriots will be forced to travel on other countries’ airlines.

[Trossie]

This editorial shows me that the editor of the Cape Times is as stupid as that racist director (the 'finance guy') at SAA. One would not expect the 'finance guy' on their board to know anything about flying qualifications and clearly the editor of the Cape Times doesn't either!! Both of them should have resisted the temptation to advertise their stupidity like this.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Either way, SAA is too rich a vein of gravy for the in favour comrades to leave untapped. As long as the taxpayer is coughing up the shekels the airline will be more than happy to absorb their share.

[Fuzzy Lager]

Its not a well written piece. Considering the massive amount of material that SAA supply on a daily basis to fuel public loathing of the bankrupt little state run mess you would think the Cape Times could have made a more persuading argument.

Luckily in the race to the bottom they have SA Express as competition so it is entirely possible that they are currently only the world second worst airline. Knowing how this may annoy them I suspect they are working on ways to reclaim the bottom spot.

[oompilot]

Our company policy is to avoid SAA at all costs for the exact reasons mentioned by Vlamgat.
I'm not sure why people criticise him for reacting the way he did regarding the 'tone' of the posting. If someone steals that amount of money from you, you entitled to be angry in my opinion. I would be thats for sure. Pretending not to be angry is the downfall of our modern 'civilised' society, it only allows those not playing by the rule book to gain an upper hand. It's why we westerners are doomed to fail as a society in the long run.

[Ghost_Rider737]

Well then don't fly BA,Emirates,Cathay,Lufthansa and Cathay Pacific.
All the above airlines put their cadets (with less than 300 hours) direct onto A320s,B777s and A340s....as co pilots

Don't comment on subjects you don't understand...
SAAs cadet training programme is JAR and FAA approved. These systems have been in use in Europe and the East for over a decade.

[cavortingcheetah]

Perhaps one fundamental difference is that BA, Emirates, Cathay and Lufthansa might select their cadets on the basis of a structured and proven capability profile. Some might be concerned that SAA, the state airline of a country where advancement within the state employee market is already determined almost entirely by the colour of one's skin, is using racial bias as its employment criteria. Were that true, aviation safety might be compromised as candidates were advanced within the state airline to positions based not upon their ability but rather upon the accident and privilege of their birth.

[B200Drvr]

Ghost,
BA, Emirates and Cathay do not put their 300 hour cadet pilots into the 777 or A340's as Co-pilots, they put them in as SO's which means they are not allowed in the seat below 10 000 feet!!
Furthermore, our cadet program is NOT FAA or EASA approved!!!
Where do you come up with this cr@p!!

[Fuzzy Lager]

Indeed, don't comment on things you know absolutely nothing about Ghost Rider

Firstly, don't compare SAA to BA, Lufthansa, Cathay or any other real airline, you are not in the same movie. SAA is more in the league of Air Zim.

JAR was a set of regulations which has been replaced by EU-Ops. Only a regulator can approve something not regulations, they are an inanimate object. Nonetheless, FAA and EASA do not approve SAA training.

And some respect please, as a tax payer I am an unwilling contributor to your palace of sulks. We expect some appreciation.

I hope you voted ANC, a sane Government will put an end to this idiocy once and for all.

[PigeonVoyageur]

A little precision. As far as BA is concerned, they put their 300-hour cadets on A320 and B737 on short-haul routes as FO's - meaning that they do take-offs and landings.

[Ghost_Rider737]

The proposed new 250hr cadet programme will be easa and faa approved.
And yes the cadets will be second officers...we need to accept the inevitable.

[Oldaircrew]

Cavorting cheetah, are you saying SAA is racist? I thought they sorted that out with majority rule? Obviously someone didn't get the memo.

In defence of the poor airline, fuzzy is correct. To fix SAA, you need to get rid of the ANC. It is mainly government interference which prevents the airline from working, not anything the airlines management does/does not do(although, like most airlines these days, they are mismanaged).

[Capetonian]

If SAA stopped using the airline as a personal taxi service and provider of jobs for the ANC boitjies, if they gave managerial positions and overseas postings to people with competence and experience rather than based on connections and skin colour, then it might one day function again as a proper and profitable airline.

SAA are unable to operate viable international services to/from CPT. Odd that many other airlines can, including BA and VS to London where SAA couldn't.


To fix SAA, you need to get rid of the ANC.
I think there's an extra letter in there. To fix SA, you need to get rid of the ANC.

[Oldaircrew]

Hahaha. It's a fair cop.

[B200Drvr]

You will note that I specifically stated the larger aircraft, I am fully aware that many airlines and some you would not call airlines, use <300 hour cadets in the right seat on A319/20/21's and 737's on domestic routes, not the same as what was being discussed.

[millertime]

Emirates cadets straight into the right seat of a B777 with less than 300 hours (not second officers). Cadets selected on nationality (racial basis) - Emiratis in order to pursue the UAE policy of emiratisation. Cathay cadets become Second Officers and they are also are now favoring Chinese nationals

[divinehover]

Is it legal to export a WHOLE bag of meat to Gabon? Why would you have a Bose sound system in your bag when you are on your way to a sim check? Do you DJ part time?

[cavortingcheetah]

What might happen to the isishawa were the sangomas get to hear about the opportunities presented by the magic of the Springbok that flies.

[olirindis]

All of you having a go at SAA here are frankly upset that you didn't get offered a flight deck seat here for whatever reason. I am a caucasian training captain with the company. This program is going to succeed because one of the key components of its success is the correct attitude of all of the participants in the process. Unfortunately the issue of race and capability is once again an easy escape for your argument. I urge you to accept the change that is overdue and imminent.

[cavortingcheetah]

I'm doing it for fun.

[Fuzzy Lager]

I'm doing it because I think that airline is a circus. Ok, and because its fun too.

Success in the context of SAA/SAX is like being a genius rat. When you are amongst other rats you are quite impressive but in the world at large you are just a filthy vermin.

Never applied to work at SAA and never will. Why you think anybody would be jealous of those that do is beyond me. SAA is not the employer of choice that it maybe once was, its a political relic that thinks if its arrogant enough then people will forget how far it is past its 'sell by' date.

Anyhow, how much should the lucky taxpayer budget for this success story?

[oompilot]

All of you having a go at SAA here are frankly upset that you didn't get offered a flight deck seat here for whatever reasonAg shame. What a sad little man. The level of intellect required to make such a foolish statement that can only be translated as, 'you all wish you were me because I'm beautiful' is about as intellectually stunted as a politician blaming a 20 year past relic called apartheid for todays problems.
MR SAA employee, if you don't understand the above statement I'll explain. Your ideas and facts are not related. Sorry.

[6Gs]

Fuzzy Lager, you are so right! Exactly like you said: SAA is not the employer of choice anymore.

I do understand the SAA guys' ostrich tactic for all their problems: SAA use to be their unicorn - impossible to catch. Now that they caught it they realize its terminally ill and dying very quickly. Nobody wants to admit that their unicorn is dying. So arrogance is the best defense!

Everyone knows SAA is going down the drain, but does it really matter? Majority of foreign pax are brought into SA by foreign airlines. There is enough operators in SA and Africa. So who cares?

[olirindis]

You frustrated little chaps are welcome to choose whoever you wish to fly with..... Its great here, from the onboard service, to the equipment we operate and of course the conditions..........just beautiful:ok:

[6Gs]

Olirindis,

Its not about you, so don't take it personally. Nobody cares about your "equipment, conditions etc...". South Africans care about their tax money and corruption.

If you want to go that route I can tell you I fly a new -800 as well, in the future to be a MAX8, and with my businesses on the side ALONE I make more than a SAA junior captain.

Its about morals. NOT jealousy, NOT cadets, NOT you. SAA is hurting South Africans way more than the advantages it offers.

[cavortingcheetah]

Yes indeed, let's not allow this thread to disintegrate into the vulgarity of a whose Derringer is bigger than than whose type slanging match. One might as well say then that as SAA is run by major big time crooks so also all employees of the company are crumb driven bottom feeding gangsters.

[WhinerLiner]

The attitude displayed by the two SAA employees fits with the general SAA experience. The philosophy is that the airline exist to please them and if the customers don't like it then who really cares. The common thread starts with their incredibly frustrating booking system, is mirrored by the gum chewing surly check-in staff and continues through the rest of the painful experience.

To place yourselves on a pedestal and believe that anyone would be envious of your position in that place must require self delusion of the highest order. You cannot respect what is not respectable. Your expression of support means you align yourself with a corrupt, bankrupt, morally bankrupt, racist, low quality and globally irrelevant organisation. I have more respect for strippers, at least they understand the concept of adding value to the customer experience.

The only positive thing I can say about SAA is that if you need to get somewhere urgently you can rely on there being space on an SAA flight. Public loathing is so intense that it has become the airline of last resort for many, regardless of cost or convenience.

[Capetonian]

SAA will continue to exist for as long as it serves the need of those for whom it provides sheltered privileged employment and subsidised transport, that is to say the ANC and those who lick the ANC's collective backside.

It will continue to be funded regardless of losses for as long as SARS collect tax from the dwindling tax base. Now, about that tax base :

2.181 million registered taxpayers contributed less than 2.25% of total personal income tax.
Personal Income Tax represents roughly 34% of SA’s total tax revenue.
859 000 taxpayers paid 53% of total personal income tax
Less than 5% of the SA labour force pay more than 50% of personal income tax. This means that less than 1.75% of the country’s entire population pays more than 50% of personal income tax, and clearly a substantial portion of VAT, excise duties, import duties, and the fuel levy.

I do not think it necessary to comment on the iniquity and unfairness that the above exposes.

As regards SAA's service, it varies from outstandingly good to frighteningly bad and seems determined by the attitude of the crews. There is no consistency.

[Shrike200]

All of you having a go at SAA here are frankly upset that you didn't get offered a flight deck seat here for whatever reason.

http://imgace.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/vader-thinks-your-throat-needs-a-hug.jpg

[Capetonian]

The good folk from the ANC and their buddies must travel in style and comfort on the nice new shiny toys paid for by the taxpayer, that is only right and proper.

he noted the airline flies about 1,000 passengers per day between the two cities.
SAA offers 975 seats a day on its two daily returns JNB-LHR. So 1,000 a day = PLF 105%, but maybe they include the crew.


South African Airways is planning to introduce premium economy seating, Business Traveller can reveal.
First, the carrier will announce the new aircraft types it will be ordering for its fleet ahead of its move into London Heathrow Terminal 2 on October 22.
Gary Kershaw, SAA's UK and Ireland general manager, said the new aircraft will either be Airbus A350s or a mix of Boeing B777s and B787s.
But he told Business Traveller that the planes will be fitted with a new premium economy class product — "a massive oppportunity for us" — no matter which aircraft manufacturer is selected.

With the new aircraft not expected to join the fleet until 2017 or 2018, passengers may be dismayed at the thought of waiting so long for a seat that will bridge the gap.
However, Kershaw also said that SAA would likely retrofit existing aircraft before this point with a premium economy product and confirmed that it would "definitely [appear] on the London route", depending on which of its A330-200s and A340-300s would stay in service longer.
SAA economy class seats offer 31-34 inches of legroom, while business class is fitted with fully flat beds in a 2-2-2 configuration with a 73-inch pitch. Kershaw added that it costs around US$15 million to retrofit an entire plane, so the decision would need to be made wisely.
South African Airways currently serves Johannesburg direct from London Heathrow double daily, with 48 connections per day to and from Cape Town, but has no new routes confirmed, said Kershaw.
He added: "We are pretty static," although he noted the airline flies about 1,000 passengers per day between the two cities.


Dishes on the LHR-JNB route will include Loch Fyne Scottish smoked salmon; grilled cod from Iceland with saffron velouté, baby carrots and mushy peas; handmade truffle tortellini with grilled artichoke and Parmesan (vegetarian option); braised beef cheek with horseradish purée and summer vegetables; and passion fruit tiramisu for premium passengers.


.......The new meals must be really captivating and well crafted in order to delight our customers travelling for both business and leisure purposes."

[congoman]

I hope you guys bitch and moan as much about the Arms Deal, Escom, Telcom, Etolls, the SAAF, the Gupta's, Zuma's 12 wives, Zwelentini's 6, Malema, and the Blue Light Brigade as much as you do about SAA!
As maddening as it may seem, at least our tax dollars are still being spent on a company that can claim to employ some of the best trained pilots in the industry.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is STILL good for our industry. (Though admittedly not ideal.)
Do you think for a moment that if SAA closed down tomorrow you'd see ANY saving on your tax dollar? Think again! Zuma would blow it all on the next Nkandla renovation. Personally I'd rather my tax go into my industry, where I can see it - than into Zuma's back pocket, where I can't. But that's just me. Maybe you guys trust Zuma. But I certainly don't.

[congoman]

To put it into context - the following was copied from the previous page. It was written by Mr John Scott of the Cape Times. What follows below this article is a response that has been sent to both Mr Scott and the Cape Times.

----------------------------------------------------

A cunning plan to promote fear of flying the national airline
SA Airways don’t really want us as passengers. I think they would prefer it if we boycotted them and used other airlines instead.

This would enable them to shut down entirely, stop paying departing chief executives huge golden handshakes, and put an end to their annual losses.

Naturally they will deny this is their intention, but why scrap the direct Cape Town-to-London flight if not to chase all those travellers with an aversion to changing planes in Johannesburg into the arms of BA?

Now SAA have thought of a new stratagem to get rid of everyone with the faintest fear of flying. They want to reduce the number of flying hours necessary for a new second-level officer to sit in the cockpit from 1 500 to 250. The idea is that this will make it easier for black men and women to become pilots.

At present some 90 percent of SAA pilots are white which airline director Andile Khumalo called “a congress of white boys”. Personally I don’t mind whether they’re a congress of white, black or blue boys, or even green girls for that matter, so long as they’ve got a lot more flying hours under their belts than a mere 10 overseas return trips.

SAA’s present chief, Monwabisi Kalawe, said the 250-hour guys and gals would sit in the cockpit “to gain the necessary experience”.

Not while I’m in the passenger cabin, they won’t. I demand that everyone controlling my plane is fully experienced, and not in the process of becoming thereof. The last thing I want to do is put my life in the hands of someone doing a crash course.

What about painting a big L for learner on the fuselage of those aircraft with rookies who are still learning the difference between a joystick and a jackstaff? Watching them land and take off at the airport could provide a good Sunday afternoon’s entertainment for those viewers who are fortunate enough not to have family or friends on board.

Travel agents should also be able to warn clients whether the plane they are booking has any 250-hour pilots within reach of harm.

Like Chris Zweigenthal, head of the Airways Association of Southern Africa, we passengers need to know what these so-called second officers’ duties and responsibilities would be.

Would they just sit decoratively in the cockpit and draw a nice salary, or would they fiddle around with the instruments panel and press various knobs to see what then happened?

Worse, would they occasionally be given the controls and told to “take over”?

The good news for nervous travellers is that Cape Town International Airport has once again been voted the best in Africa, so they are pretty safe on the ground as long as they don’t take off above it.

And now if they want to fly to Sydney, they may no longer do so via SAA because the Australian airline Qantas has terminated its code-share agreement with SAA. This will save them having to worry about the flying hours of the cockpit crew. SAA-booked flights to Perth will however continue, for those still keen to reach the most isolated large city in the world, whatever the risks.

But with luck SAA will fly fewer and fewer routes, until there are none left and even the most dare-devil patriots will be forced to travel on other countries’ airlines.

------------------------------------

Greetings Mr Scott
I stumbled across your article which I believe was published in one of the newspapers some time ago already.
I'm one of the "congress of white guys" flying at SAA.
I've been flying as a pilot for 35 years. 27 of those years at SAA. 17 of them as a captain.
And the last 10 as a senior training captain within the training department of the Airbus A340/330 fleet at SAA.
I come from a newspaper family background with my father serving many years on the staff as chief sub-editor of the Rand Daily Mail, Sunday Times, Sunday Express and the Citizen. No doubt you'll be familiar with many of his friends and colleagues like Rex Gibson, Kerry Swift, Tertius Myburgh and Kit Katzin to name a few.
I mention this only to explain that I am thoroughly familiar with the technique journalists use to distort the truth in order to spice up a story. "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story," was an adage I grew up with. It caused some heated discussions in my household I can tell you.

Regarding your article. No offense, but it's a little too far removed from the truth to warrant it being ignored as just another one of those badly researched blogs. I can assure you that no life-respecting airline captain would dare consider what your article suggests. And a little disingenuous to assume that we would. We aren't dealing with a profession that tolerates mediocrity here. Unlike most other professions, our mistakes cost lives. The innocent - as well as our own.
You won't find those consequences in politics, journalism, accountancy or the legal profession. Where indeed these days, mediocrity seems to be the order of the day.
Like every profession in South Africa today, our industry, along with yours, faces serious challenges regarding BEE. And rather than tolerate a degradation of standards, along with the deadly consequences that would risk - we have chosen to take a pro-active approach and expose selected, promising, and talented individuals to an accelerated training program that would otherwise not have been available to them. None of this training exposes our airline, our passengers, or indeed ourselves, to any danger whatsoever. The primary crew remains in control of the aircraft at all times of the flight and the second officer position you are referring to involves no physical flying of the aircraft whatsoever. (Let alone getting to do a takeoff or landing.) The only physical flying the second officer is exposed to, is in the flight simulator - where ALL pilots spend a great deal of their time doing conversion and recurrency training on a regular basis.
The task of flying an aircraft across the world involves a lot more than simply the physical duties of flying the aircraft. It involves crew teamwork, risk management, standard operating procedures and airline indoctrination, as well as a myriad of other aspects in a highly complex and technical arena. It's towards these aspects that our focus is directed. The public is unaware of the rigors and demands of this industry and are understandably concerned when misinformation is circulated in the media. Who can blame them. With what we read in the newspapers and watch at the movies.
In the interests of circulating the true story I would be happy to host you and your colleagues to a simulator training session when the opportunity presents itself.
In the interim, my colleagues and I can assure you - and the public, that we STILL train our pilots to the highest standards in the world. Why wouldn't we? After-all, on an aircraft, ALL our lives are at stake.

(I have no objection should you wish to publish this response.)

[NextLegUndefined]

Well said congoman.

[divinehover]

Not a cent of your tax money is spent on SAA. The SA Gov hasn't put any money into SAA for many years (that is the problem). The Gov 'bailouts' that everyone bitches about are guarantees for loans that SAA got from commercial banks (Nedbank for one). So all of you bitching about your waisted tax money can remove or amend your posts.

[Fuzzy Lager]

Firstly the last bit of state assistance may have been in the form of a guarantee but for oh so many years SAA's annual pilgrimage with begging bowl in one hand and yet another 'turn around' plan in the other has been rewarded with the ca-ching sound of my tax money.


Ah yes, a guarantee is of course completely different to a bailout. When the hopelessly insolvent airline defaults shortly then what? Also why should that dog show get funding at a preferential rate which they then spend in a price war with the competition.


Anyway, not long to wait before another years abysmal results are published along with the pathetic excuse as to why the hole is ever deeper. Word in the ether is that they even they might find this years loss to be embarrassing.


Divinehover, I hope you hang on to your job at SAA, life in the real world will be a difficult adjustment.

[FuelFlow]

Pieter Booyens dedicated 31 years to South Africa Airways as a pilot, and now that he is on pension, he is struggling to pay his rent and his mounting medical bills.

For him, the R80 billion class action by more than 62 000 pensioners against Transnet is long overdue.

The North Gauteng High Court in Pretoria last week gave staff the go-ahead to pursue the action against Transnet and its two pension funds.

Two pensioners - Johan Pretorius and Johan Kruger - told the court that thousands of former Transnet employees had to survive for nearly 10 years with just a 2 percent annual increase in funds.

The pensioners are seeking through the class action to compel Transnet - backed by a guarantee from the state - to pay a pension deficit which existed in 1990 payable to Transnet Second Benefit Fund and the Transport Pension Fund. SAA is a subsidiary of Transnet.

The case is expected in court before the end of the year. In the meantime, Booyens struggles to make ends meet.

“My whole family worked for SAA. My parents, three brothers and myself,” he said.

“I was a senior officer who flew jumbo jets for years. After 31 years of service I went on pension and I now have no medical aid or any way of supporting myself.” He retired 24 years ago.

Booyens, 74, from uMhlanga Rocks in KwaZulu-Natal, receives a R4 500 pension each month, which is not even enough to pay for his accommodation or medical bills.

“I have been living in my house for years and now cannot pay rates or levies. The bank has threatened to repossess it.”

His problems became worse last year when he was diagnosed with motor neuron disease. “I now have to use a wheelchair and I cannot even afford to go to the doctor.

“I have spent my life flying jets and have now turned into a beggar. People do not believe that I was once a pilot.”

He said his parents faced similar financial problems when they retired.

“They were both given a lump-sum payout of R1 600 when they retired and no pension after that. That was 20 years ago. I had to take care of them until they died.”

Booyens said he was struggling because of his medical condition.

“I do not have medical aid. I am in dire straits. If I want to fly to Cape Town, they can give me a free ticket, but what am I going to do with that if I cannot even pay my medical bills?

“It is pathetic to live like this,” Booyens said.

[Capetonian]

It's not just about the bailouts/guarantees, and as stated by Fuzzy Lager, the difference between the two in this context is pure semantics, it's about the the complete and utter waste of government (= tax payers') money on useless redundant staff who are political appointees, and on the spill of commercial passengers when premium cabins are full of ANC arselickers travelling on free and rebated tickets.

For as long as the ANC continues to treat SAA as its private taxi service, and for as long as it allocates jobs on the basis of race and politics rather than on competence, suitability, and experience, it will forever be a black hole for taxpayers' money.

[handbraketurn]

SAA lost more than R3bn for the year ended March 2014 and word has it another R1bn in the first 3 months of this financial year. A guarantee does not come for free and represents cash that government could have used for more pressing social needs as guarantees must always be covered by cash; a guarantee equals cash equals a bailout. The only reason their 2014 financials are not available yet is due to the fact that the auditors will have to qualify it without further support from government. A qualification will have terrible consequences for its debt and leases - a big mess really.

Do not forget about that SAX, SAX is bankrupt, owes SAA at least R350 million according to the 2013 financials, cannot pay its debts despite government support in the form of cash and guarantees of R1.3bn in the last 5 years.

A vicious cycle of incompetence at the detriment of the industry whichever way you look at it.

[fincastle84]

As a regular visitor from the UK can anyone explain to me why they cancelled the LHR-CPT route? Surely it wasn't just to raise cash from selling the slots!

As we always fly BA it's obviously hit us in our pockets because during 8 months of the year BA have no competition. The 3 additional weekly flights during your winter are nearly always full, as is the already existing daily service.

[Capetonian]

If you read through this thread you'll find most of the answers to the question. BA and VS can make lots of money on routes GB<->ZA. SA lose lots of money. Next question?

To save you time, read specifically :

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/530129-saa-going-down-drain.html#post8213248

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/530129-saa-going-down-drain.html#post8331321

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/530129-saa-going-down-drain-3.html#post8473538

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/530129-saa-going-down-drain-4.html#post8594819

[flyawaybird]

Why am I not surprised with this heading?


It would to be seem, with African Airlines, each time politicians start interfering with the running of any airline, that particular airline goes down the hill. The reason is simple, corruption.
This exactly what happened to EAA.


Having said that, this should not change the attitude of those serving passengers. Customer Service should be maintained at all times. Loss of baggage is experienced wide and far, among airlines, it all depends on how such losses are handled, and whether or not passengers are compensated.


What I know is that there is a form to fill as soon as the loss of baggage is known, and the passenger concerned, advanced some money for use of his basic needs, toiletries, underwear etc. Once the baggage is not found, then the passenger should be compensated accordingly. On the other hand, if the baggage is found, then he should be notified or the airline concerned, makes the arrangement for delivery to the person. However whatever, money had been advanced in earlier stage is not recovered from the passenger as part of good service to him/her since he was inconvenienced earlier on. Note, the airline should not make the passenger to keep on going to the airport to search for his baggage. it is the airline's work to track the lost baggage. Only when the baggage is found that he should be notified.


Lastly, I don't doubt that BA is doing much better than SAA. Even earlier on, some twenty years or so, ago, BA was doing badly on other international routes, but survived through Nairobi, Jo'burg route. For this reason, Nairobi staff were not retrenched but offered the golden handshake to seek jobs elsewhere. This was around 1980 and 1981.

[Capetonian]

Just listened to an interview with Nico Bezuidenhout, SAA's current interim CEO.

He mentioned :


A 90 day action plan (24 March deadline for results)
'War cabinet' policy
Admits that they have failed to implement plans and strategies
Commits to publish financial statements to satisfy shareholders for y/e March 2014
Maintain solvency and profitability
Need to reconfigure routes and connections whilst serving key trade and tourism partners
Etihad share swap denied
Can't afford new a/c
Fleet replacement step by step, don't hold breath.

I'm certainly not holding my breath. Someone higher up is pulling the strings.

[Antman]

Maintain solvency and profitability

Shouldn't they try achieve solvency and profitability first.
:ugh:

[Capetonian]

South African Airways (SAA) will be transferred from the Department of Public Enterprises to the National Treasury.
The announcement was made at the last post Cabinet briefing of the year, which was chaired by Minister in the Presidency, Jeff Radebe.
Addressing the media on Thursday, Minister Radebe said Cabinet was concerned about the performance of some of the State-owned companies (SOCs), in particular SAA, the South African Post Office and Eskom.
“These SOCs play a critical developmental role within the South African economy. The President has assigned Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa to oversee the turnaround of three state-owned companies, namely SAA, Eskom and the South African Post Office."
“Working with the relevant ministries, the SAA will be transferred from the Department of Public Enterprises to the National Treasury. The Presidency will closely monitor the implementation of the turnaround plans of these three critical State-owned companies that are drivers of the economy,” Radebe said.
SAA on Tuesday announced its 90-Day Action Plan aimed at steering the airline back to the full implementation of its Long-Term Turnaround Strategy (LTTS). Acting SAA CEO Nico Bezuidenhout said the airline was working closely with the Department of Public Enterprises and National Treasury to ensure implementation progress against the 90-Day Action Plan interventions

[Ghost_Rider737]

well they are still hiring pilots.... Saw people being interviewed this week.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

There's probably some kind of twisted logic in cutting out the middle man and giving them a direct line to where the money is.