Indus Air

[inducedrag]

Any one have information on their working ?

[Bye]

yes the owners are friends of mine.

[inducedrag]

They have mostly Greek Pilots with very little P1 hours whats their Pay any Idea

[babisiliop]

Do you know the Greeks and you say they don't have much of PIC time on type.
If you have that much why don't you apply?
Cheers

[inducedrag]

Because I fly B777 but the have B737

[Masagemarad]

Just talked to a friend that is there and is going to leave Air Indus and four other pilots are bailing out as the crew have not been paid in the last sixty days salary/perdium and airline ticket reimbursement.
He also said they had started out with three B737 planes just eight months ago and hey are already down to two planes as they are robbing parts off the third plane to keep the other two running.

[sky734]

They have got a DCP A from PCAA Capt S H for their cadet pilots. Seeing there flights getting cancelled and delayed

[sky734]

Heard they got a fourth 733

[Masagemarad]

The exodus has started at Air Indus the ex-pat pilots were not paid salaries, perdium, and airline tickets. It was one excuse after another. Five pilots left within the last week.
The fourth plane you are hearing about is nothing new they had three planes at the beginning, however one is parked with parts off it to keep the other two flying. Windshield missing outflow valves etc.
The fourth plane you are hearing about was a Eastern Sky Jets wet lease however the plane did not pass the CAA conformity check.
My friends got burned by broken promises from the DO Dara and the chairman Wahid.

[inducedrag]

It might close its operation because it cannot pay for the aircrafts

[Superpilot]

Seems only idiots (who don't know the likely outcome) or complete crooks (who fully know the likely outcome) venture into this business these days.

[Bye]

Well i can certainly vouch for the fact that the owners are not crooks.

As for being idiots, well a bit harsh to be honest, they have a sound business plan fully approved by the CAA and have a real passion to create an airline in Pakistan for the people.

However in my opinion they have simply under-capitalised the whole operation from start to today.

they have also been naieve in thinking they would get the help and support they needed, rather than them being seen as another cash cow.

They have struggled to get hold of aircraft of any use, again owners of basically scrap aircraft trying to screw a few dollars out of them.

There is very little infrastructure in Pakistan to support such a start up in terms of spares and crews and training and they are having to deal accross cultures to get things done.

The rupee has recently been re-valued and caused country wide problems with cash going to pay foreigners or exports.

They are limited to flying within their own boundaries for now which has stopped some of their route plans.

so i don't agree they are crooks or idiots. They do have honorable intentions, and they have invested a lot of their own money in the venture.

The only thing that makes them idiots is investing a large amount of their own money into the venture to try and do something they have a passion for, rather than just spending the money on supercars.

with the 737 being used for spares, they were advised to buy the aircraft as a spares ship for stripping as it would be cheaper and easier than trying to get parts as and when needed.

[Masagemarad]

Bye,
With all due respect I don't know how you can stand up for these owners that have left pilots with no pay and are owed over twenty thousand dollars in salaries, perdium, and airline tickets they paid for out of pocket to fly to Karachi.

You cannot use the excuse of currency devaluation when they do not even honor the contracts these people were given and second they were promised week after week by the Company Director of Operations that they would be paid so they stayed on and were left hanging .

I personally know these pilots and they have families to support and for a chairman to tell his DO that he is not paying period is grand theft.

I have given them money out of my pocket for them to fly home and retain a lawyer and sue them for damages.

You should tell him that he should keep his word as a Muslim pay these people and if he has any class man up than go ahead and stop the bleeding and close the airline down if he is using the excuse of not being profitable.

[Bye]

i didn't think i was standing up for them to be honest, apart from saying they are not crooks in my opinion.

if they have acted criminally then get the Police involved.

i thought i'd been quite critical really of them, sorry if that didn't come accross, and i am trying to get things resolved for people and help, which i have no obligation or benefit of doing but i am still trying to help out where i can.

i have no financial or personal link to them, and have never had a problem business wise with them, although we were considering a code share with them.

i will help anywhere i can if i can.

[sky734]

And Guess What!? they had all their aircrafts brought down to OPKC without any Air Indus Representative paying a visit to check out aircrafts technically. One email and a down payment brought the aircrafts to OPKC. They might have intentions to run an airline but they seriously need a well crafted team of professionals to run the airline. I hope they dig out of all the finance crashes and really FLY WITH DIFFERENCE!

The Chairman Mr.WAHID has to think differently to fulfill his slogan.

[sky734]

Abdul Wahab is the Chairman and Wahid is the director

[inducedrag]

Turbulence: Air Indus embroiled in another scandal ? The Express Tribune (http://tribune.com.pk/story/676093/turbulence-air-indus-embroiled-in-another-scandal/)

[sky734]

Ive helped them alot in the 3 months from july till october and I was told that il be given a job I did all their affairs with CAA including arranging crew checks , commercial stuff and marketing aswell I arranged them pilots from the world free of cost I also set the salary structures for the pilots and later when everything was settled for them they showed me the door and gave no job which was shocking because I sincerely worked hard for air indus to get them out of the troubled turmoil I also planned aircraft rotationsadjusting their fligt schedules aswell but the respinse I got was very saddening

[Masagemarad]

Former employees of Air Indus should drop a email or call the investigative reporter at the Express Tribune they Have been doing an investigative series on the corruption and safety of the airline.
They have done several articles including Air Indus doomed to fail and the money laundering.

Matter of fact they have recently gone to the CAA and interviewed the Air Marshall and Director General to push them to look into the matter and to resolve the issues.

It's gotten so big it looks like there Air Carrier Certificate is gong to be pulled by the CAA.

[newscaster]

Air Indus is shoddy from the word go, I don't know how Bye is saying they are passionate about running an airline, look at their branding and website, both substandard, compare that to Air Blue who knew what they were doing from the start not compromising in any area unfortunately they are having some issues too, but still.

[Bye]

i am able to say it because i know it to be a fact.

but if you understand human nature you will understand that sometimes passion is no substitute for ability or common sense.

i know many racing drivers who are passionate about racing but will never win a race.

and just for clarity i am not on their side, i am independant and have tried to help and be constructive in getting help for those i can help on all sides, remember when any business goes down the pan there are many losers, and not just the owners, and going down the pan is the worst case for those owed money is it not ?

[Masagemarad]

Bye we appreciate your help for the fellow aviators and shows your a good person. However these pilots did however travel over 5,000 to 10,000 miles with a contract in hand that said they would be paid monthly along with perdium and airline ticket money etc. these tickets varied between 900 euros to 3,000 euros.

But for them to be told day after day they would be paid by the head person in Flight Operations flight operations director Dara Shahnawaz and wait over two to three months was just plain corrupt, and its just not them that have been affected but there families also.

They all have also been exposed to hazardous duty conditions of the daily killings and bombings in Karachi, Quetta, and Islamabad that have really taken a turn for the worse the past couple of months.

Just two weeks ago a road side bomb 2km from the Ramada hotel in Karachi killed thirteen people.


Now some of them have contacted the chairman and he has the nerve to say well they left. Who in the hell would stick around with IEDS going off daily and be expected to work for nothing for months at a time and on top of that just days before the last five pilots left the Ramada hotel they were confronted by the front desk to pay for there rooms as the company had not paid there invoice in over ninety days. I may add airlblue and other crews stay there and they did not have that drama or embarrassment in public.


Air Indus and these so called wealthy owners had a chance to make it right and settle paying all people including expats and down to the local workers just making three hundred dollars a month. and not even having the decency to at least pay half of what they were owed and airline tickets is grave and shows they have no class or morals.

One thing is certain they will be out of business just like the other start ups who try to cut corners and there will be accountability.

The few expat pilots left are rotating out before there visas drop dead and lining up there tickets to get out.

It's unfortunate crooked business men continue to dabble in aviation and they put the screws to the industry and burn people.

[Bye]

My only concern in all of this is the safety of passengers flying on Air Indus.

people get stiffed all the time, i myself had a product stolen from me worth over a billion quid, and who gives a damn, nobody.

Its only money at the end of the day but i cannot stand by and watch people die.

If all is being said is true, and i have no reason to doubt it, then Air Indus must be investigated today by the Pakistan CAA on safety grounds.

If they declare them safe to continue then fine, but we have to have this now before its too late.

The only way this will be put to bed is for an independant investigation by the CAA.

i am sure the owners will have no problem with a thorough investigation as it goes with the business, and if there is nothing to hide it deffo should not be a problem.

if allegations are being made of unsafe ops, and ignored by the operator then they have to be investigated independantly.

as i said i am only concerned with safety and nothing else matters at this time, all the rest can be sorted, be we can't raise the dead and i personally do not want to see a smoking hole and wish i had done something to stop it happening.

its up to you chaps in territory to blow the whistle, stop flying, strike, protest whatever it takes to get this done.

If i were air Indus, i would call in the CAA myself and get them to go through the AOC and check all is well or not.

the biggest problem with fixing any problem is first admitting you have a problem.

NOT trying to tell anyone what to do or ramming it down your throats, just my opinion on the way forwards.

[inducedrag]

AirBlue then Bhoja I hope not Indus next
Bhoja Crash Blamed on Poorly Trained Crew ? Newsweek Pakistan (http://newsweekpakistan.com/bhoja-crash-blamed-on-poorly-trained-crew/)

[Masagemarad]

That fatal plane crash of Bhoja airlines has a connection to Air Indus the CAA has the same Idiot POI inspector Sikander Hayat that is now facing lawsuits from the families that lost loved ones in that fatal accident.
Air Indus is letting the POI fly both left and right seats with passengers.

This same inspector just had another incident under his watch seven passengers had to be hospitalized recently after one of the aircraft had pressurization issues and continued to fly and it was so bad that there are drums blew out and were bleeding.

I bet if the families of the Bhoja crash knew they would be knocking on the door of the CAA demanding answers grabbing this guy nnthe shirt and kicking his butt.

[sky734]

I have been the victim and witness to Air Indus evil deeds but Capt Sikander Hayat has nothing to do with the good or bad image of an airline his job is to take the cadets further up and get them going on the 737s that is all he has nothing to with the management affairs of the airline so lets keep people out who have nothing to do with the corporate profile of any airline

[Masagemarad]

Zoom rider thanks for the support everyone needs to keep pressing the CAA to pull the AOC of this shoe string operation it's doing disservice to the flying public and the local and expat workers.
The DO there needs to be taken out behind the wood shed and get his butt kicked.
Please send me a PM I want to talk some more looking to do a class action suit against Abdul Wahad and Abdul Wahid assets.

[Bye]

zoomrider, the answer to your question is both. But i do NOT have a connection to the company.

[sky734]

They dont pay and will never pay their AOC should be suspended

[Bye]

i have been trying to help in the background with some of these issues and have been talking directly with one of the directors.

i have been accused of standing by and watching a crash happen and find this most unfair,

therefore i will no longer try and help and would like to make it clear i have no business, financial, or any type of connection with Air Indus.

i am acquainted with the owners in a personal capacity and have done business with them in the past and am not owed any money by them.

i have tried to help out in this situation and this will now stop and i will not have any further contact with the owners of Air Indus.

i have no inside knowledge of the operation and know only the directors and do not know any staff or employees below that level.

i've done my best to help, but some just want to use me as a whipping boy for them, well i'm afraid i'm the wrong person for that. if you have problems with Air Indus you people in territory have to act to sort it out, sniping at me won't help as i'm not the CAA or Air Indus.

[underjet]

so how was your experience working with double idiots??

[underjet]

it seems you have some militry back-ground:rolleyes:

[Masagemarad]

Bye you were a good middle man to try and assist the locals and expats that have been taken advantage of by Abdul Wahid and Abdul Wahad.

They just kept everyone going in circles with different lies everyday like the bank was closed, the rupee is low today against the dollar, or the chairmans in a meeting tilll six oclock etc.

Like you said the ones that are owed money take a moment to write to the Pakistan FIA, Pakistan CAA Director General and Secretariat, the Prime Minister's office, Pakistan Consulate or Embassy office in your country, and the local newspaper that has been doing great work that has been following the money laundering story from the beginning.

You can find the contact email addresses for all of the above by just doing a google search.

And if you have the means hire a lawyer and take them to court like the others are starting to do.

And let them all know how you have been screwed by these thiefs and there Director of Operations doing there Dirty work of recruiting people under false pretenses.

Justice will prevail in the end.

[sky734]

yes i do but other businesses have nothing to do with this business its just the poor mismanagement from the supporting staff as if they were so bad in doing business they would have never started an airline

[sky734]

What i'm saying is that the HEAD of FLIGHT OPERATIONS is equally responsible to the mishandling of the affairs in Air Indus, bosses are not alone to be criticized

[Masagemarad]

The Director of Operations Dara is working in concert with those two knuckle heads after all he has three wives to support, so he is pocketing employees perdium money to pay for his affaires.
He has always the same old line I am gong to see the chairman or the chairman is in a meeting what crooks.
Wahid and Wahad know what's going on with the day to ay operations they are at the airport a couple times a week.
They are just not real sharp a keeping there lies straight.
They are just all sleeze balls withe there days numbered.

[sky734]

Another flight today made an emergency landing back at OPKC due to pressurization failure and hence, this has happened for 2 or 3 times now in the past 1 month

[Masagemarad]

Yea the last one last month was a pretty good one about seven passengers had to be admitted to the hospital with blown ear drums and blood coming from there ears and nose.
Aircraft was grounded for several days as they did not have the money to buy parts from PIA so they just penciled whipped it back in service.
And like you said it just keeps going and going like nothing happened lol.

[Boeing737_IL]

Hi
I was flying for this company and i am telling you ,if you do not like to stay a live just fly for them.
without MEL there is no go . one Captain with his FO they have lost Engine Nr 2 in FL220 because the were unable to imbalance the fuel they switched the wrong fuel pumps. the Captain was leased from PIA , next day he went back to PIA and now he is flying again there.
the CAA knows all those stories but they are getting money to shut up. most of them in the CAA are corrupt .you keep your AOC as long as you pay .

[Masagemarad]

It's been all documented the CAA Director General and Secretariat were hand delivered a letter with all the details. In that letter the ICAO secretary, FIA, and Prime Minister were also copied in that letter.

You are 100 percent correct about the corruption these dirt bags are being flipped Few c notes here and there to look the other way but the fat lady is singing and heads are going to roll.

So for the record when the s@@@ hits the fan and there are fatalities or FIA shuts them down they will be all accountable for not taking action and will end up in jail and meeting new boyfriends or getting knocked off by the families that lost loved ones.

The local newspaper also has a copy of this and is completely aware what is going on, and they have gone on the record with the spokesperson of the CAA.

Also the few remaining pilots should be on notice all of your licenses are on the line, the CAA/ICAO/FIA knows everything being violated flight duty times etc you get my drift.
You are going to be up the creek without a paddle with no recourse, just for a few lousy hours of jet time.

[Boeing737_IL]

there is a Greek Captain there he is 64 and he did not see the B737 for the last 10 years .
he failed his line check twice with Sakandar but he still flying for them.
one FO flew with him and after the flight he left them immediately because this captain was unable to fly the approach.

[sky734]

Apparently because Dara has not informed the management i believe but i remember when i was with them i did inform the HR about this particular capt but no offense to the individual we are just discusing this to elaborate flight safety and for the ear rising fact Caa has issued a class 1 medical and hence he is flying in this case initially the questions marks arise on CAA medical centre

[sfipilots]

To be honest I would never go there. I know some pilots who went there, all of them low experienced pilots, 2 british who failed Ryanair assessment and went for an unknown p2f and 4 italians who went there after p2f in AirBaltic but, despite the good experience, they were not good enough to stay in the company longer.
Another Romanian guy was flying in Asia and was fired for a tailstrike...
One of them left after few weeks, 2 have been called back in BT with a seasonal contract. One british quitted the company and went home.

I know of at least two of the expat pilots are ex- Air Baltic P2F-ers(one Italian and another east-european),apparently some of the others were too but I can't confirm. It's just funny how things turn out to be.

Maybe are the same guys??? :O
Air crash investigation is already preparing a reportage for this company, stay away!!

[Boeing737_IL]

@erbuscap
you are right 100% regarding those Air Baltic FOs . they have no Idea about aviation and much worse are Olympic Captains with zero knowledge . the CAA Inspector was sending one of them back home because he even couldn't taxi the Aircraft.
the other Olympic Captain is bull.....s unable to take off but Mr Dara and Tahir supported hem after he was giving Dara few Dollars to keep him.
Dara and Tahir they were spending hours with this Captain to teach him how to program the FMS .
another Olympic Captain came with fake License but he survived only one week
then they have send him home because he had no Dollars for them.
I can tell you a lot of stories about those monkeys Dara Tahir one more Captain from ESJ and one Captain with Hurt problems.they had only one FO name David who was really very good and tried to teach them how to fly the Aircraft but the terminated him because of his huge knowledge.
regarding the Aircrafts the BLE is leased from JAV , the same Aircraft had severe damage and rapid dep in Libya and even JAV did not use it anymore .
the other one is from Africa and from the first day was operating with pressurization problems.

[inducedrag]

Air Indus VS CAA or CAA VS Air Indus :confused::mad::mad:

[Masagemarad]

Your all correct CAA DG and and Secretariat are just as much sleeze balls as Abdul Wahid and Abdul Wahad taking kick backs to look the other way. They were quoted they would look into all the issues at Air Indus and to this day no pilots have been contacted at all three months later.

However one legit government the UK Secretary of state just took action and revoked the Chairmans pending citizenship, due to his financial judgements.
They passed a law several years ago expelling foreigners who make application for citizenship and default on payments and judgements. So now he will be in his crap whole to face the music.
Karma was real good to these jerk offs lol.

[rej1977]

@erbuscap

He just shouldn't have been in a cockpit, period. Blame Air Baltic though, not Indus.

Sorry to go off-topic, but Air Baltic has been the company which allowed me to start my dream job and I'm quite :mad: off if somebody blame them.
Everyone of us found a job in another company from Norwegian to Ethiad and Emirates and other major companies. In each airline there are some bad pilots. That italian was one of them, in fact they got rid of him just after line experience program! The main question is: how could him get ATPL???

Air Indus, Indeed, must be blamed as it hires the worse pilots in the world and don't even check if somebody is cheating hours....:yuk:

[inducedrag]

Even P1 are paying to get the type rating to
Air Indus

[sky734]

and eastern skyjets owner is a business partner of Wahab in other line of business that is why air indus has as an aircraft on wet lease from them.

I hope they improve with the number of flights they air operating now

[Masagemarad]

Eastern Sky Jets is just as bad as Air Indus they were not able to sell and market there 737 as it failed inspection in the UAE. Mismatched part numbers, timed out main landing gear etc.
They had no recourse it's ready to fall out of the sky in due time, so they are just riding each others coat tails.
The first CAA inspector failed the certification of putting the Eastern Sky Jets plane on Air Indus cert, than overnight they switched inspectors and it passed with flying colors WTF !!
And to follow up both owners of Air Indus are banned from the UK now they have no where to part with there rupees lol.

[sky734]

I WAS THEIR REP. Yes indeed i was very close and know the in and out of air indus today, if they know a few things about aviation is bcoz i taught them none of their employe was allowed in CAA when i joined them back in july'13 i introduced a few their and only those are still allowed to move around. I may not be much experienced but i know da industry protocols and procedures very well and i took them out of their turmoil successfully but they really know how to ditch some1

[sky734]

And they also have another quality and that is how to put a bad mark on someone's name after they utilize and ameliorate there own intrests

[inducedrag]

Still waiting for TRI/TRE for last 9 months to start line training

[Anunaki]

They are banned,which begs the question,how appealing the flight crew who left Air Indus , and are back job hunting,will be to prospective employers?

If you paid to fly and wasn't kept,it will raise red flags,after all, recruitment with the big boys is about training risk.
Then,you abandoned Air Indus over breakage of contract,will they give you references?will they vouch for your hours? then, flying for a banned airline will raise questions on your quality due to that airline reputation of bad practices…

If you paid to fly you got what you deserve and you're now "toxic",unemployable. If you were just unlucky to get cheated by this lot perhaps you consider asking the CAA and get opinions from training captains of other airlines,on how this could affect you.

[sky734]

1 of their aircraft is technical and stranded in islamabad since yesterday

[rej1977]

The problem with P2F schemes is that the paying pilot is regarded as a client.
A training Captain does not have the option to send a trainee home even if he is incompetent and 10 instructors have already written him down,
Hence the fact that there is no proper filtering.

Well this depends on the professionality of instructors and company. When I was on training in Air Baltic I've heard that some guys failed the line check and had just a second shot before being sent home....
The fact itself that they do not offer the line training to everybody means something...
I guess it should be the same in other places :mad:, but I don't have information about this

[inducedrag]

Now one TRI is there

[sky734]

what would they do for DCP A?

[Masagemarad]

It the TRI or expat ? If he is expat he will get stroked by Dara about payment salary like he has done to all others so if someone seems him tell him I hope he has enough money to leave the country on his own as everyone else had to find there own way home after no salary or perdium.

[Alive]

Hi do you think I could get a job at Indus? I am recently type rated on 737NG but no hours, thanks in advance

[Alive]

You never know!! you never know, would you believe it, there was no e-mail addy to send my C.V to on Indus website, so I thought What the hell I will put a call in!!

To my delight I had a chance to speak to the Director of operations explained my situation and was requested for copies of licences and passport!! watch this space! because I may have my first real bite here! been fishing so long for someone to give a damn about me.

I will update! and to be continued......

[sky734]

I put it on right track and air indus is getting it right.

But management should review with their crew after a period of time and change policies accordingly because I believe the crew to be the backbone of any airline anywhere around the world.

@alive- wait for a few more months as they still need to get a DCP A and according to my info they just have a TRI for time being.

[Masagemarad]

You have to worry more than just getting paid salary as the DO there pockets your perdium for himself.
Than you also have to have ticket money as they will not buy your tickets to and from. They say they Weill reimburse but that never happens either.
And lastly you will be kindly be asked by the Ramada Hotel in Karachi to pay for your hotel as they skip paying those also.
So I would bank at least five thousand euros to get yourself out.
The last guys that left had to pay out of pocket the govt a two thousand dollar fine for visa violations as the company had screwed up the business visas.

[inducedrag]

The Director of Operations Dara is on his way out

[sky734]

that would not change anything there untill the bosses get professional

[sky734]

Looks like their struggling again with daily delays and cancelations

[sky734]

Who is the new D.O.?