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View Full Version : Australia to lose 1st world status


nomorecatering
11th Dec 2013, 07:13
In 2017 we will be the only 1st world country where anything on wheels is no longer manufactured here.

Hard times are coming for Aussies.

dubbleyew eight
11th Dec 2013, 07:15
eh ....have toyota made a comment as well?

TWT
11th Dec 2013, 07:30
In 2017 we will be the only 1st world country where anything on wheels is no longer manufactured here

Don't think so !

http://www.victa.com/~/media/Images/Victa/WWW/DomesticProducts/product_lawn_mowers.ashx

500N
11th Dec 2013, 07:33
What cars are made in NZ ?

Or what anything that runs on Wheels is made in New Zealand ?

And aren't they a 1st world country ?

Fox3WheresMyBanana
11th Dec 2013, 07:42
http://0.tqn.com/d/antiques/1/7/_/J/sheepWheels.jpg

Ancient Mariner
11th Dec 2013, 07:49
Norway not a first world country? Well thank you very much.
Per

Captain Sand Dune
11th Dec 2013, 07:53
In 2017 we will be the only 1st world country where anything on wheels is no longer manufactured here.
Hard times are coming for Aussies.
I'm sure the unions are proud of themselves :mad:
Watched one union rep pull off an Oscar winning performance as he became very upset while announcing the decision. More upset about the upcoming loss of union membership fees methinks.

nomorecatering
11th Dec 2013, 08:05
NZ, Norway and many others are not 1st world countries. Sure they may have "modern economies", but they are all living on the never never. When you cant manufacture the basic commodities for yoursociety you must buy them from somewhere else. Eventually you have nothing left to buy them with.

500N
11th Dec 2013, 08:12
New Zealand is listed in both 1st world country lists I just looked at.

500N
11th Dec 2013, 08:13
NATO Member States during the Cold War http://www.nationsonline.org/buttons/x.gif http://www.nationsonline.org/buttons/x.gif http://www.nationsonline.org/buttons/x.gif Belgium Canada Denmark France Germany Greece Iceland Italy Luxembourg Netherlands Norway Portugal Spain (since 1982) Turkey United Kingdom USA US Aligned States Israel Japan Korea (South) Former British Colonies Australia New Zealand Neutral and more or less industrialized capitalist countries Austria Ireland Sweden Switzerland

Ancient Mariner
11th Dec 2013, 08:31
As far as I know Australia never manufactured real cars. They first copied British cars, then American ones disguised as Fords and Holdens. They were never cars, and that is probably why I never seen a dealership for any Aussie cars around here. Not that we miss them.
Per

chuks
11th Dec 2013, 08:31
The term "First World" came from Franz Fanon, I think, when what he wrote about was the Third World.

First World: Western democracies and other states allied with them.

Second World: Soviet Russia and other socialist realms allied with the Sovs.

Third Word: states such as Algeria.

It's not so much about having a full panoply of industries as it is about having the status of a democratic and fully-developed state. Anyway, it's a loose term.

Pali
11th Dec 2013, 08:43
What is Slovakia (ex Soviet satellite then) now? First world?

And probably the #1 in cars produced per capita in the world today, to stay within the topic :)

Tarq57
11th Dec 2013, 09:01
Pali, not getting mixed up with the Czech republic are you? What cars are made in Slovakia?

NZ seems to me to be slipping down the slope. Our wealth is now dependent on tourism and dairy, in the main. Our health - particularly some of the stats for kids health (obesity, suicide rate etc) is some of the worst in the OECD.

I see no improvement in sight in the near term. This last year was the first time I recall seeing ads for organisations such as Oxfam attempting to raise money for deprived kids living below the poverty line in NZ. WTF??? You (regrettably) expect to see such messages concerning Central Africa, or Haiti, or similar, but in Godzone?

TWT
11th Dec 2013, 09:11
Pali, not getting mixed up with the Czech republic are you?

Tarq,he isn't getting mixed up.He does live there according to his location.

Slovakia To Set New Car Production Record this Year | The Daily Slovakia (http://www.thedaily.sk/slovakia-to-set-new-car-production-record-this-year/)

Slovakia ? largest car producer in the world | Visit Slovakia (http://visitslovakia.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/slovakia-largest-car-producer-in-the-world/)

'Per capita' Slovakia is #1,Czech Republic #2

PTT
11th Dec 2013, 09:12
I doubt he's getting mixed up based on his location.

Slovakia ? largest car producer in the world | Visit Slovakia (http://visitslovakia.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/slovakia-largest-car-producer-in-the-world/)

There are three major car producers in Slovakia: Volkswagen, PSA Peugeot-CitroŽn, and KIA.
...
In 2006, more than 295,000 cars were produced in Slovakia. In 2007 this number doubled to more than 570,000, which accounts for 106 cars produced per 1,000 inhabitants, and makes Slovakia the largest car producer per capita in the world. This number should even increase by 2009 when Peugeot and KIA reach their maximum production capacity (300,000+ cars/year). In 2009 the number of cars produced per 1,000 inhabitants should that way increase to 160.

Bah, ninja'd ;)

Tarq57
11th Dec 2013, 09:22
Ok.

My excuse is that I live in a third world country where the "news" is dumbed-down.

The SSK
11th Dec 2013, 09:39
Lot of people whingeing on this thread, and they're not Poms

MagnusP
11th Dec 2013, 09:42
Shame about Holden, though. First Ozmobile was a Torana, presumably a rebadged GM of some sort. The second was a Ford Fairmont. Are Toyota not big builders in Australia, though?

gruntie
11th Dec 2013, 11:23
Oz used to produce a Holden that was sold in the UK as a Vauxhall: Monaro, or something. With a big V8 and far too much (can you actually have too much?) horsepower it went like a scalded cat. Top Gear loved it.
They also produced something called an Austin Freeway which used their own 6-cylinder B-series engine in an Austin A55/60 shell. They finally made grey porridge interesting: however, BMC in their infinite wisdom, etc etc.

But in both cases we're talking about the past. Sigh.

racedo
11th Dec 2013, 11:27
You mean Australia was actually considered 1st World...............you kidding right !!!!



Hat, Coat and where is door

bankrunner
11th Dec 2013, 12:05
eh ....have toyota made a comment as well?

Toyota don't have much of a choice. When Holden and Ford are both gone, most of the component suppliers that also supply Toyota will become uneconomical and will wind up, unless they all start magically exporting their wares to GM and Ford plants overseas for less than the prices offered by foreign third world suppliers.

500N
11th Dec 2013, 12:15
" You mean Australia was actually considered 1st World...............you kidding right !!!!"

Go up North, you'll soon find plenty of places that are not 1st World.
In fact, I'd consider some very 2nd if not 3rd world.

SawMan
11th Dec 2013, 13:57
When you cant manufacture the basic commodities for your society you must buy them from somewhere else. Eventually you have nothing left to buy them with.

I like this description, though sometimes letting someone else make things makes sense just so long as you can get by without them until you can get going making your own. That is the critical point, for when you cannot take care of yourselves (versus simply not doing that even though you could), then from that point forward it is all downhill gaining velocity as you go.

Here in the US, we've reached that point and I don't like which way we're pointed. Our old self-sufficient industries are being bulldozed preventing their being reborn if needed, and our (ever devaluing) cash flow is rapidly going in the wrong direction with no sign of that stopping :ugh: If there is a good lesson which can be learned from the old USSR it would be that even if it's an inferior product, if you make it yourself then you'll always have it when you need it, and nobody else can take that away from you. But you can screw up and give that advantage away willingly.

Should every nation produce cars? No, but neither should they place themselves in a position where they have no choice but to accept someone else's terms without a viable alternative being available. No, Australia isn't becoming a Third-World Country just because it won't be making cars anymore, but it can easily get there following the US example. I hope you're smarter than that!

galaxy flyer
11th Dec 2013, 14:04
Shucks, I guess that means us Yanks will never get a "ute" now. I loved those in OZ and would have loved on as a third car here.

GF

airship
11th Dec 2013, 14:20
...would have loved one as a third car here

Just goes to show how Yanks in general might consider Ozzie-made cars and/or their respect for the planet, struggle against mass-consumerism etc.

I remember the days when any 2nd car was a cheap banger, MOT'd but just that. Used by the missus to take the kids to/from school, do the shopping etc., whilst the main car was used exclusively to transport Sir the 5 miles to/from work each day...?! :ok:

galaxy flyer
11th Dec 2013, 15:27
airship

I live (and work) for mass consumerism. What is the point of production, if not, to consume?

GF

Ascend Charlie
11th Dec 2013, 20:12
If Holden and Ford made a car that anybody wanted to buy, then they would still be in the market. The size is wrong, quality is only now being touted, and equipment levels have been rubbish, unless you add all the expensive options.

You cannot compare the good build quality and high included equipment levels of Kia and Hyundai with a base model Holden. So, nobody buys Holden except government fleets and taxis. But even taxis are heading towards Toyota electrics.

The beer-swilling yobbos who inhabit the race tracks will mourn the passing of the Ford/Holden V8 races, but those race cars have only a vague similarity to what is in the showroom.

500N
11th Dec 2013, 20:21
Galaxy

I had a Holden "Ute", a VR Model "S" pack ute,
it was a lot more practical than I thought it was.

Used to go like the clappers.

And this is a plain white one, some of them look awesome.

http://i39.tinypic.com/zv7sy1.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2uokrc2.jpg

Andu
11th Dec 2013, 20:35
When the UK saw the light and shelved the very worst of its unions, guess where all those rabid unionists, no longer employable, went? You guessed it - Australia. And did they learn anything from the winter of discontent and losing their jobs in their home country? Not a bit. They set about trying again in Australia what they failed to "achieve" (now there's an interesting word) for the "working man" in their home country.

Damn near every time we suffered a crippling strike in Australia, and until very recently, there were many, (even before the UK's winter of discontent), the union leader or the shop steward who was "leading" his "workers" (now there's another interesting word) with his barely intelligible call of "everybody out!" had a thick Scots or Geordie accent. (The one exception, Norm Gallagher, who we have to claim as one of our own.)

These predominately northern English/Scots unionists have managed to gain totally unrealistic wages and conditions for even menial "workers" in Australian industry. (The Australian motor industry, you'll find, has some of the very worst examples of this.)

They were nobbled to some degree by the Howard (Liberal) Government in the years leading up to the change of government in 2007, when a Labor (there's no U in Australian Labour) Government which was TOTALLY in thrall to those unions was elected, and since then, they've (the unions) ruled the roost, its leaders outrageously rorting the country and their members' funds - to the point where those Brit shop stewards (admittedly enthusiastically aided by plenty of home-grown "working men" of a like mind) have "achieved" - AGAIN - what they did to industry in the UK - made it unsustainable.

Eee by gum, well done, lads.

500N
11th Dec 2013, 20:38
Remember the BLF ?

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

7x7
11th Dec 2013, 21:17
The favourite tactic of the BLF under Norm Gallagher was to down tools and walk off the job just after a major concrete pour.

John Hill
11th Dec 2013, 21:52
If you had a Leyland P76 you hardly needed a ute.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Leyland_P76_with_44_gallon_drum.JPG/1200px-Leyland_P76_with_44_gallon_drum.JPG

radeng
11th Dec 2013, 22:01
sad. In 32 years in my last employment (and once in an employment some years before) the worst and most useless managers I had were Canadians. (Which is why when I see a Great Tit (Parus major) in the garden, I refer to it as a 'Canadian Manager'.)Then the French and then the British. Followed by the Americans and the best of the lot were Australian. Unlike the Brits and to some extent (but not as bad as the Brits) the Americans, they weren't busting a gut trying to build empires and stab other managers in the back (metaphorically!) They wanted the job done, the facilities provided to make that happen and even adequate rewards as far as they were allowed when the job WAS done satisfactorily...

Part of which is why if I was 40 years younger, I'd be looking to emigrate......Another advantage of Oz is that you can get a decent cup of tea there!

TWT
11th Dec 2013, 22:10
If you make cars that no-one wants to buy,then there is only one eventual outcome.Such as the offerings from Lightburn in South Australia in the early 60's.Lightburn's major output was washing machines and concrete mixers but they decided to make cars.Quite possibly the worst cars the world has ever seen (the Trabant was superior)

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJqEH3mxBUIXAHyKalZAR6WMIYTmiwa7a6cW78GGv vUtl0872K

OK465
11th Dec 2013, 22:34
What will Max Rockatansky be driving in "Mad Max 4 Fury Road" ?

A turbo-charged Prius? :}

Fox3WheresMyBanana
11th Dec 2013, 22:38
John Hill - I love the fact they've got an oildrum in as the marketing gimmick, rather than 2 sets of golf clubs or 20 boutique shopping bags.

I presume the 2 sheep are on their teabreak?

TWT
11th Dec 2013, 22:42
It's a 44 gallon drum.Most people have seen them and know how big they are,hence the reason it was used to illustrate the volume of the boot.The P76 was a product of Leyland Australia.

Romulus
11th Dec 2013, 22:47
Racedo, of COURSE we are a first world nation.

No basement dungeon here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2521752/Children-incest-cult-living-deformed-mute-Australian-valley.html)

Unlike that Austrian bloke our perverts don't lock their victims in teh basement! THAT is truly third world behaviour... hopefully that explains the whole Austrian/Australian thing for all and sundry...

Romulus
11th Dec 2013, 22:49
Oh, and for those who are unaware of the history Ansett airlines started as an offshoot of Reg Ansett's road transport business, he used to build buses amongst other things.

cargosales
11th Dec 2013, 23:36
NZ, Norway and many others are not 1st world countries. Sure they may have "modern economies", but they are all living on the never never. When you cant manufacture the basic commodities for yoursociety you must buy them from somewhere else. Eventually you have nothing left to buy them with.

Sorry but that's just drivel. Ever heard of Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund ? They're about as far from living on the never never as a country can get...

Ancient Mariner
12th Dec 2013, 00:04
Shhh, Cargosales, we're trying to be modest about it.:\
Per

Metro man
13th Dec 2013, 13:00
Only two countries could build proper muscle cars, the USA and Australia. Some of the Aussie ones were pretty good, Holden's HSVs had a loyal following.

With the loss of Ford and Holden, it's only a matter of time before Toyota go as well. It won't be worth keeping the parts supply chain going for one manufacturer. Parts could be imported but why bother bring in parts when you could bring in finished cars using cheaper Asian labour.

Perhaps taxes on foreign cars could go down with no local industry left to protect. Australia could end up importing second hand cars from Japan, like New Zealand does.

cuefaye
13th Dec 2013, 14:54
Holden Calais 1997 - best car I've ever had. Well made, lots of toys, and a huge powerful donk. Pity that it was impractical to bring it back to Pomland.

airship
13th Dec 2013, 15:21
It's perhaps a great shame that we finally end up measuring (by more or less general consensus), the status of a country by the car/s produced in that country...?! :confused:

OR NOT (It's awhile since we had a good ole car thread here in JB)...?!

ITALY therefore, IMHO, is the most advanced country. I present the MASERATI Granturismo:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Maserati_GranTurismo_2.jpg/800px-Maserati_GranTurismo_2.jpg

Arrivederci (and eat my dust, smell my exhaust etc.)...?! ;)

John Hill
13th Dec 2013, 18:13
If you dont like Italian you could got to the other end of the spectrum..

http://cabinetmagazine.org/issues/12/stevenson_cows.jpg

...the NZ made (no longer) Trekka.

500N
13th Dec 2013, 18:32
"Some of the Aussie ones were pretty good,"

I would say very good.

Maybe not as refined as the US Muscle cars like Mustangs etc
but they were good. And I was never a V8 fan.

500N
13th Dec 2013, 18:35
" Holden Calais 1997 - best car I've ever had. Well made, lots of toys,
and a huge powerful donk."

VS Commodore. Great years.

I had the one before as well, VR, also a top notch car.

Probably the best two Holden's I ever had.

John Hill
13th Dec 2013, 18:51
Ahhh, Trekka and a Holden at an airport!

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3284/2688676606_963faaa759_z.jpg?zz=1

Rotating beacon, HF antenna systems, a Trekka hitched to a dry power unit and a brand new Holden 161 ute in 1969.

They were one of the best models of the Australian utes, only adequate power but it had a plywood deck over the floor pan of the station wagon version. Only a few minutes with a skill saw gave access to a secret compartment that would hold a few thousand dollars worth of illegal crayfish tails, but thats a whole 'nother story.

Pappa Smurf
13th Dec 2013, 22:39
The Falcon HO Phase 3 was the fastest 4 door sedan in the world at the time.
One of those in the shed ,along with a E46 Charger and a Torana A9X ,and I would be a very happy man.

500N
13th Dec 2013, 22:46
Isn't an original Falcon HO worth a couple of hundred thousand $$$ now ?

Some pretty exy prices on some of those old cars in collections.

james ozzie
13th Dec 2013, 22:53
I don't follow cars very much so I may be quite wrong but it seems to me the much loved "iconic" (sick of that word) Holden cars are just re-badged Opels/Vauxhalls etc. They are all a single identical product of a global manufacturer, just made in different places. They cannot claim to be truly Australian, local variants aside (e.g. utes/pickups). Or am I missing something? Of course, the loss of jobs and industrial capability is quite another matter.

Captain Dart
13th Dec 2013, 23:18
Yes, on my first ever trip to Europe I saw these Opels everywhere; 'Hmm, funny how that looks like Australia's 'home grown' Commodore', I said to myself.

500N
13th Dec 2013, 23:32
James
To an extent, more so now than in the past.

We do a lot of "good" design in this country as well which
has always helped keep us up there.

TWT
13th Dec 2013, 23:32
The only similarity between the Opel Senator and the early Commodore was the body shape.Very different under the skin.

500N
13th Dec 2013, 23:54
Yes, agree.

Have they heard of a 6 cyl or V8 in the UK ? :O

When I first came to Aus, I was a bit stunned, my father went from some piss weak 4 cyl Grenada to a big 6 cyl car and everyone was the same.
Very different car culture.

TWT
14th Dec 2013, 00:07
Air travel was very expensive for a family in the 70's so they drove long distances.A six cylinder car was a much better proposition.

BenThere
14th Dec 2013, 00:48
The thread topic is thought provoking. Just what are the criteria that qualify a country to be 'first world'?

I gave it some thought and concluded that first world status essentially consists of:

1. Rule of Law. Everyone from head of state to lowliest dredge is entitled to the protections, and subject to the penalties of the law of the land.

2. Pluralism. The people being subject to government must continue to assent to the ways and people they elect to govern them.

3. Infrastructure. Transportation, electricity, water supply and sewage, communications must be established to an assumed and reliable high level.

4. Culture. The people and their habits, trends, education, mores, and disposition support the strengthening of their society.

That's my concise view of the first world, where the above have been achieved. I'm quite worried that my own country is letting go of No. 4.

alisoncc
14th Dec 2013, 01:44
Horses for courses. In '93 drove a new Ford Fairlane with a 4.1 litre donk. Early '94 returned briefly to the UK where the car I drove had a 1.4 litre donk. Significant difference. Yet both hauled the family around with few hassles.

As for Oz losing it's 1st world status, never knew it had ever gained it. :)

7x7
14th Dec 2013, 02:12
Ben There, I understand you're coming Dunnunda to join us. After you get here, you might be more than a little unhappy with the answers you'll come up with to all four of the points you're made there.

Allow me to give my answers to your four points.

1. Rule of Law. Everyone from head of state to lowliest dredge is entitled to the protections, and subject to the penalties of the law of the land.

All too often here, it's very much one rule for the Great Unwashed and pretty well anything goes for the political and moneyed elites. (However, I don't think the US is much different to that.) We have numerous examples of outright high scale corruption by members of the recently outgoing government and their main backers, the union movement, that the main stream media are bending over backwards to ignore.

2. Pluralism. The people being subject to government must continue to assent to the ways and people they elect to govern them.

A very vocal minority among a large (and becoming alarmingly larger by the day) group who are mostly "recently arrived" (many of them self-selecting, as in uninvited), have made it very clear that they don't believe they should be subject to a secular government's rules. They stridently believe that they answer to a Higher Power and should be excused from following any laws not contained in some book that they believe was inspired by that Higher Power. To date, our political leadership and 99.9% of our media seem unwilling to confront this group. Indeed many seem to encourage them to express these differences in the name of 'diversity'.

3. Infrastructure. Transportation, electricity, water supply and sewage, communications must be established to an assumed and reliable high level.

No longer the case in many parts of Australia, thanks in great part to attempted cost savings by both sides of the political divide. Transport and other vital public infrastructure in the nation's largest city, Sydney, is appallingly bad.

4. Culture. The people and their habits, trends, education, mores, and disposition support the strengthening of their society.

There'd be many who would say that in much of Australia, there is quite a bit of movement in this area. However, it is almost always in the wrong direction.

Australia remains a wonderful place to live for many of its inhabitants. However, (as in the US), there are some doing it tough, and there's be some credible commentators out there who say that many who are enjoying the good times are doing so on borrowed time.

dubbleyew eight
14th Dec 2013, 02:17
benthere you have a few things wrong but being a yank we'll forgive you.

in number 2 we australians NEVER elect people to govern us.
we elect people to run the country.
woe betide the bastards if they go too far and try to govern us.
do you understand what it means to be "a free country".

in australia the governor general is a ceremonial figurehead, nothing more.

Frank Arouet
14th Dec 2013, 02:46
The Governor General is the Commander in charge of The defense Force.


She is also the Mother in law of the leader of the opposition in The House of Representatives, (who is a republican and alternative Prime Minister), but is The Queen's representative, (who I guess is a Monarchist). She has the power to dissolve the government of the day and one such GG did exactly that. She also attends flower shows and swears in governments.


I haven't seen any statue's built that would suggest her being a "figurehead", so she is only taken as that by the republicans. The Monarchists in Australia take the presence seriously, but are perplexed by our last PM, another republican anti monarchist, appointing her, which appears to belittle the position. The current PM is being very generous in leaving her there. If the boot were on the other foot, she would have been marched out the door after the swearing in.

500N
14th Dec 2013, 02:50
Frank

You have the wrong end of the stick.

The current PM can't March her out the door unless she has done something seriously wrong.

Also, Abbott agreed when her term was extended a short length so it didn't fall during an election period so it would be him who looked a fool if he sacked her.

Finally, she has come out in support of a Republic and Australia becoming one.

And it would be a very brave GG who sacked a Gov't without very valid reason.

The GG is pretty much a figurehead and I am a Monarchist !!!

cattletruck
14th Dec 2013, 02:51
As for Oz losing it's 1st world status, never knew it had ever gained it.

I don't think status, including 1st world status is important to Australians. We are a big island and there is plenty of scope when things look dire to say bugger the lot of you I'm going fishing.

As someone who does Europe/Australia regularly I love it that we are so laid back here.

But things are slowly changing for the worse, mainly caused by world's worst practices in the finance sector. Seems that the only manufacturing left is building sprawling suburbs in the handful of cities that we have.

BTW, I like my Commodore VT, it's simple and most capable, and I can't see myself getting rid of it anytime soon. Airship, I cannot understand why the Italians insist on installing trombones in those cars.

Frank Arouet
14th Dec 2013, 08:28
QUOTE Finally, she has come out in support of a Republic and Australia becoming one.QUOTE


That could be a conflict of interest given her position.


Oh, and she came out in support of same sex marriage. I guess that makes HM feel good as well.


Oh, and another thing, the GG who sacked the last bloke had a good reason. Without supply in the upper house you can't govern. The subsequent election put paid to any claims of illegitimacy claimed in the aftermath.