Linetraining/base check/ Please advise!

[kazz_kazz]

Please advise!
I'm stuck in a situation that is apparently an odd kind of dilemma.
I have about a thousand hours on the
737EFIS (I am now current on the NG) but my last date of flight in a real plane is way back in time. Over 5years.
I've been trying to get a job for the last two years with no result. All companies and reqruiters demand "real hours on type" within the last 6/12or 24 months!
What the heck am I supposed to do? A base training (6 t/o and landings) is obviously not enough and I'm not very keen on paying 55k EUR for a linetraining just to be current!
Please help! Anyone? Ideas? I'm going nuts trapped in this situation!

[Tu.114]

I do presume that Your licence is still valid. What type did You fly the required hours and take the LPCs on?

Paying to fly... ok, just one thought instead of a rant. How long would it take for You to recover the 55kEur from the salary You may expect from the job You want to land after the line training? When calculating this, please consider if You also like to see some food on the table and this table to stand in a heated, lighted place to live in.

Judging from the lines You have written, if I were in Your shoes I would preferably look for jobs NOT involving the 737. Take Your time on that type as experience, but first of all get a flying job that pays the bills instead of leaving You with still another one to be paid. On whatever type that may be.

[Mach E Avelli]

Recruiters will always try to get pilots current on type because it is seen as saving a buck on induction training. Although this can be a fallacy, and in fact being too current with some other company's different SOP can actually be counter-productive, if that is what they want you are probably wasting your time dealing through normal channels.

So, there are two possibilities.

1. Find a way to bypass the recruiters and get in direct contact with the chief pilot - often the chief pilot is not kept fully informed of applicants who may actually be his preference.

2. Think about going somewhere in the short term where they may be less selective (i.e. a bit desperate). Some less salubrious third world country perhaps. If you can handle the poor conditions for a year or so, you could get the recency on type that you need to move somewhere better.

[3bars]

When you say you have 1000hrs on 737efis. is that flight time on an aircraft or ground time in a training module?

[kazz_kazz]

Thank you very much for your reply Tu.114 , Mach E Avelli and 3bars!!

PC/OPC/LPC was all in the 737-300/500

I have kept both licence and medical valid during the years.
Last PC(SIM) was on the NG (737-700)

Linetraining would then be in and would probably give nothing but "flown hours in the real aircraft" ..


Thanks for opening my eyes!
I'll try another strategy then!

[kazz_kazz]

3bars, yes my 1000hrs is from real flying.

[A4]

Not a Boeing chap myself - but if you've got the 737-300/500 on your licence does it not require a CCQ course to get the 700/800/900 onto it? How did you do an LPC on the 700 with no previous training on type? Or was the LPC done at the end of a CCQ? Just curious.

[kazz_kazz]

Hello A4!

I'm sorry if I was unclear.
I did a conversion course for the NG but that was in the sim only and not an LPC.
I only have -7/8/900 in my Licence now since the pc was done in a 737-700sim.
Feels a bit stupid when my only "real aircraft" experience is on the 737-3/500

As far as I know CCQ was not required, unsure if rules have changed since April.

[captplaystation]

Sorry to come over all "sceptical", but did you try another career, or purposefully have a "career break" ? the job market hasn't been rosy for a long time, but could you really not find some position on the 737 within the last 5 years with 1000hr on type ? :hmm:

Don't know where you find a figure of 55k€ from, you could go to Ryanair & do the full TR over again for 30K€ with (at least) a permanent contract at the end . . similar or less would get you a TR & job on the Bus with Wizzair. Just curious why this "problem" is now so important after seemingly lying fallow for 5 years. . . the length of time you have waited has made your situation far worse, it would have been better to have pursued it aggressively & taken anything you could get your hands on 4 years ago.

[B737900er]

Personally I would lie on the application of my last flight to get the interview.
I know this isn't the correct way, but these HR guys or kids from university don't understand the meaning of being current. From an EASA point of view a sim check keeps you current.

Once in the interview you can explain its been a while since your last flight due to the fact____________. Why should you spend another 30-55k to get current when you have already got over 1000 hours on type and your current its crazy!!

The fair playing players end up being the mugs, especially in this industry.

[kazz_kazz]

captplaystation!

I hear you!
I had a somewhat unexpected career change after reporting a captain.
I got fired, not because the report itself but after a sudden change in attitude from a number of captains. Some cultural differences may have been the causing factor as well. (I should have considered twice before making that report)

I was stupid enough to be honest with my story the first years of job searching..
Then I got engaged in my own business that took all my attention for a few years. When I woke up realizing I want to continue flying things were a bit different..

The latest line training offer is from sky4u.berlin.com Location is Bangladesh 500hr program with no salary and the price is indeed 55kEur for the training.
Eaglejet was offering a line training with a european company for 65k.

Now, I´m not interested in a line training at all. I only need 1(ONE) HOUR of Lineflight to be regarded as current.
I´ve been called for a few interviews but in the end I always get a No thanks when the reqruiter finds I haven´t been flying for so long. Frustrating!

I will take absolutely take a closer look at ryan!

Is it possible to "take" a new typerating on a type that I´m already current on??





B737900er!!

I agree, to lie would be easy. If I only had the guts to take that risk..
Misunderstand me correctly, unfortunately I´m quite desperate after getting a flight job quick.. I have to consider every option I can come over.



Thanx all for your opinions!

[Coastrider26]

You talk about you being fired as a cultural thing?!? And you still consider paying for linetraining in Bangladesh now that would be a really interesting culture.:eek:

[kazz_kazz]

Coastrider26!

LoL:)
Being fired was my own bad! I should have kept my mouth shut. Men from eastern europe probably take reports from younger onces as an offence while the attitude in a similar situation would be more understanding from scandinavians. (I think)
I would not even think of what would happen in Bangladesh. But thats not the case. :)

[RAT 5]

I only have -7/8/900 in my Licence now since the pc was done in a 737-700sim.

I have checked my licence issued by a JAR XAA. It says B737 300-900. My last LPC /IR says the same. IMHO they are a common type rating. However, if you had only ever flown an NG any sensible DFO would require a differences course on classic and vi se versa. It would seem that at some stage you had done a PC on both types. Someone is making an easy job difficult in saying you are not suitable. I agree that the closer you can get to the customer's 'horses mouth' the clearer the issue should become.

It also seems to me that who ever signed your last PC in your licence made a mistake. Go back there and have it corrected.

[Black Pudding]

https://krb-sjobs.brassring.com/TGWebHost/jobdetails.aspx?SID=%5ev3AK26ogHmbPeMpRChsVWHaXlyN9xHOMha0Bg Hm7zRRTWLiNl9NBHUPdCBDBi4Wa&jobId=681013&type=search&JobReqLang=140&recordstart=1&JobSiteId=5476&JobSiteInfo=681013_5476&GQId=688

[Black Pudding]

Qatar Airways Careers - Current Opportunities (http://careers.qatarairways.com/qatarairways/VacancyDetail.aspx?VacancyID=50447)

[SADDLER]

You sound like a humbled man.
Who of us hasn't done or said things we regret.
I admire your honesty.
I wish you the very best.

[kazz_kazz]

Voice of peace!
That was in poland.

RAT 5!
You're absolutely right and I do have 300-900 in my license! My apologies for confusing!

Black Pudding!
Thank you for the helpful links! Last time I spoke to Quatar the requirement was "last flown date on type" within the last 12months, 24months could might have been considered but not more than that. That cut my chances. But nothing was mentioned about "last flown date" amongst their rows of requirements as I read a few minutes ago!? I just have a feeling that requirements are maybe becoming less stringent..worth a 3rd try:)

Omnishambles!
"I need only one hour" is only a message I filtered from all the reqruiters chatter and is nothing I can confirm!
I have a couple of times suggested a self sponsored base-check that could have been accomplished with a three week notice at that time. But that was not satisfactory I was told by Parc, Rishworth and Aeropro.
Nor was a SIM-ride unfortunately.
This probably beacuse I have been away from aviation too long!? I'm sure I'ts easier if you only fly a different type and wish to get back to your originally flown one.

SADDLER!
Thank you for those words!
The very best to you too!

[No Fly Zone]

@Kazz Kazz. Oh how I understand your frustration sir. I have to believe that only a genuine fool would pay 55k Euros for the limited refresher that you claim to require. That said, in all honesty good sir, I would NOT recommend a 'little white lie' on your application, (to be corrected later, of course) just to get your foot in the door for an initial interview. Please do not lie about anything or make any false statements as they WILL come back to bite you.
My very best suggestion is to start making some personal contacts with come of the carriers for you you'd really like to fly - or who are the most likely to take you on. You apparently cannot get past the HR bean counting types and application sorting clerks, so add the personal touch and start identifying some individuals, real people already employed by these carriers, who are in a position to help you. And please don't lie. If you do, kiss that dream goodby because you will never fly. Never compromise your personal integrity, especially in a professional field. At the end of they day, that personal integrity is all you have. And best wishes.

[No Country Members]

What on earth has integrity to do with aviation in the modern game?? :eek:

[Jetavia]

If you need some landings you might have a chance to get these at Jet-time, why don't you try give their training department a call? I see you're from Sweden, have you applied with Jet-time, Primera Air and Norwegian. At least the last two should be hiring.

[kazz_kazz]

Thanks Jetavia!

Have applied to those companies a couple of times.. Still waiting for feedback!

[flash8]

Read this with some surprise as I am almost exactly in the same situation (737-300) but it has been seven years almost, walked out due to 'cultural' issues and more with the local staff (South east Asian Airline) and now becoming to realize the errors of my mistakes.

Please keep us updated.

[leteci]

Hi Kazz,

As I understand you are current on type but you are not recent on type and that is two different things.
The problem is that 99% of companys doesn't understand that if you made your revalid LPC on sim level D you are current and recent and this sim can be consider like date of your last flight.
Most of them can not understand that.
Also try to find in JAA/EASA deffinition of RECENCY and you will see what it says.
So any company which would like to hire you must give you OCC doesen't matter if you already flying or not you have to pass full OCC course with sim LPC/OPC check and after that MUST have 10 + 2 line sector under supervision.
So that means your last flight can be 10 years ago if you keep current your type every 12 months.
Again problem is insurance company who made that stupid regulation that your last flight should be within 90 days or 6 months or 12 months because in that case airlines will pay less insurance but if some comapny really need you they don't care about last flight.
Also market is full of guys who is currently flyng and other guys who destroyed aviation because they pay to fly and because of them you will never got a job.
Your only chance is to find a DFO or chief pilot from small company who is your good friend to get you in, otherwise you are like just a non type rated CPL pilot with 200 hours total I agree it is stupid but that is truth.
I belive that you will find something keep applying good luck!!

[A Squared]

When you say you have 1000hrs on 737efis. is that flight time on an aircraft or ground time in a training module?

That would be a lot of simulator time. About 120 years worth of annual training at my airline

[A Squared]

Personally I would lie on the application of my last flight to get the interview.
I know this isn't the correct way, but these HR guys or kids from university don't understand the meaning of being current. From an EASA point of view a sim check keeps you current.

Once in the interview you can explain its been a while since your last flight due to the fact____________.

OK, so you're advocating that he lie on the application, then in the interview, admit that he lied.

I'm not in management and have nothing to do with hiring, but if faced with this, the candidate absolutely would not be considered for hiring.

[leteci]

I would not lie about date of last flight I would put in application date of my last LPC as a date of my last flight.
In that case you didn't lie and you can explain that according to EASA definition of RECENCY is that sim level D is the same as flight on real aircraft show them also defeinition of RECENCY and you are fully coverd and honest.
Than you can discuss with them that you will go under OCC and company sim check and line training and that is it.

[kazz_kazz]

Thank you leteci!

Very good explanation! That helped me understand a few things!