Moving to South Africa

[Breakthesilence]

Hi there,

A couple of years ago I went to SA on holiday and I felt in love with it!

Right now, I'm thinking of moving there but I don't know exactly what's the best way to obtain a permanent work permit in order to apply to the airlines there.

I'm a EU citizen with 5000 hours on B737.

Any hint or advice?

Thank you so much :)

[dfdasein]

Perhaps you should first consider whether you fell or felt in love with it. Lol.

[The Ancient Geek]

For migration and work permits you need to contact your local South African embassy.

[Breakthesilence]

Perhaps you should first consider whether you fell or felt in love with it. Lol.

You are right, I meant "fell"; sorry :}

Are there airlines considering pilots without a work permit but eligible to be sponsored for that?

[cavortingcheetah]

Why don't you fall upon the mercy of the sword and send a very professional CV with an accompanying even more carefully crafted letter to Captain Martin Louw at Comair/Kalula?

Comair - Spokespeople (http://www.comair.co.za/media-room/spokespeople)

Perhaps he will be kind enough to send you back a reply indicating the impossibility or likelihood of obtaining a position with them. One suspects that you'd need a letter of employment in order to obtain a work permit and that such a permit would only be valid for the specific company.

A little reference to ML's biographical sketch would seem to indicate that he is somewhat of a heavy weight, at least by African standards. Whether he would be sporting enough to reply to you is a matter for speculation. One would imagine he receives many such letters although perhaps not so many from guys with 5k time on a Fluffy. Possibly you need what's known as a letter of motivation to explain to him precisely why, in no nonsense terms, you wish to make such a transition.
It would also give you some street credability were you to have a letter from the SA/CAA indicating that they'd validate your licence or issue you with a local one?

So for Martin Louw:
Martin Louw | Who's Who SA (http://whoswho.co.za/martin-louw-6640)

And for the CAA:
CAA Website (http://www.caa.co.za)

Best too not to overlook that fact that Lt Col Louw (that level of rank follows you into civilian life) spent a long time in the South African Air Force. Perhaps you were a fast jet pilot yourself? Goodness only knows what a slow jet is. Always suspected that jet would have been good enough for any ego. Just imagine how ridiculous we civilian pilots would sound if we ran around bragging about being 'heavy jet' pilots or 'super heavy skippers'? Why, we'd all be invited to join weight watchers!

All this is yours because the Christian remembrance of Christmas approaches and you seem lost in the wilderness.
¡Vivan Las Flores de la Noche Buena!

Good luck!

[dfdasein]

Breakthesilence, I wasn't trying to be a linguistic nitpicker; just cautioning you about South Africa's physical attractions and underlying drawbacks. Sorry that I have no knowledge of use to you.

[Breakthesilence]

Thanks... :}

...but there are no contacts on the website. It seems, looking to other airline's website (i.e. Mango), that in SA it's not "usual" to publish the famous "career" or "job opportunities" web page... :suspect:

[cavortingcheetah]

No indeed, you will find that in order to comply with certain racist employment laws and quotas, jobs and suchlike opportunities are often advertised in The Sunday Times classified section and that often only once.

[WrldWide]

My wife, married 16 years, is South African and we have lived in RSA full time for the last 4 years. Still waiting on permanent residence permit, have been told it takes 5-8 years. It took her all of 90 days to get a green card in the US.
Good luck.

[Fuzzy Lager]

Careful Cowboy, there is a reason why the general moving trend is out rather than in to SA.

Enjoying a place on holiday and living there are very very different things.

[Doodlebug]

Hello Breakthesilence,

I was born in S.A. and grew up there. I have also lived and worked in a number of other African countries. If you're a single man, great, have at it, enjoy and good luck, hope you find work, and that you keep winning the daily Russian Roulette that life down there has devolved into.

However, should you be considering bringing a spouse, or even children, please take note of the cautionary tone in some of these posts. South Africa is becoming one of the world's most dangerous countries, even though it still superficially has many of the trappings of the first-world. You may be black for all I know. This would definately give you a massive advantage with respect to finding employment (virtually impossible for a white male now due to the blatantly racist laws), but it is not a guarantee of safe conduct in the middle of the night, or when coming to a halt at a traffic-light. Everybody is a target. Perhaps you're politically on the extreme left. Again, you remain a target. The chances of becoming a victim of violent crime in South Africa are relatively high, and the odds are looking worse by the day. Yes, it is a truly beautiful place, and there are some wonderful people there, too. It is so great that I would possibly be living down there right now, taking my chances and be damned the consequences, if I were still single. But with marriage and children come responsibility. God help you if something happens to them, it would be on you for the rest of your days.

I mean no offence to anyone with this post, this subject is dynamite. Good luck, whatever you do.

[cavortingcheetah]

That was V1 and V2 and well said! Quite correct on all counts.

[Mikehotel152]

I'd second that.

I wouldn't hesitate to go on holiday, but then I know the place very well, having lived there etc.

That same knowledge discourages me from ever going back on a permanent basis. Even the Cape is risky these days or so my Dad says.

Perhaps the positives out way the negatives: there are a heck of a lot of the former! Tricky one.

[Breakthesilence]

Thank you all, you have been really helpful and honest.

That's right, going somewhere and liking it on holiday doesn't guarantee you may live there well.
I was impressed however, during my holidays, by the fact that I found a quite relaxed and peaceful atmosphere than I was expected to find after reading some blogs and travel website which said there is a lot of crime and to be careful when going out in the evening.

The fact is that we are all unsatisfied about the life we are living and the place where we are residing.

Sometimes I feel the need to move out from here, live abroad and experience a different life. What are the first places that come into your mind? The places you have been, on holiday or at work, and these turn into something you wish to be your lifeline.

That's why most of us write on forums etc. Sometimes to ask for informations and sometimes to unintentionally request the others to open your eyes on some points and let you see what you need to see.

Thanks a lot guys.

[zoneout]

Its a great country. I have spent quite a lot of time working in safer countries (as previous posters have said, most countries are safer), but I always am very pleased to be home. It may not be as safe, but its a far better place to live than any other I have seen.

[CathayBrat]

If you are a single chap, then why not, only your self to look after. If you have baggage (sorry, family), then it is not the place. Period.
Getting your license validated (which btw, is the same time span as converting and getting a full license.) can take 2 weeks, or 6 mths, it is the luck of the draw at the SACAA.
If you have a CONFIRMED job to go to, they should help, as they will know the people to bribe, (sorry, pay off) to get it moving faster, but this is no means confirmed.
On the plus side of living there as an expat............. cheaper than Europe, you can have staff, trips to the bush are great.....nope, thats about all I can remember. I was J'burg based, so will be very jaded.
Good luck.

[cavortingcheetah]

You will need to budget for a car. These are much more expensive than in Europe, especially second hand and you will want something decent. You do not want to beak down at night on any road in South Africa.

[Trossie]

Breakthesilence,

If you are in Britain, get onto BBC's i-Player and watch last night's 'Question Time' (12th Dec, it took place in Johannesburg). Then think about if you still want to move there.

(It was rather delightful watching the expression on Hain's face when he was told to take his ideas back to England!)

[sky waiter]

Just a quick 2c worth without a permanent residence permit at the very least you can forget working for a south African airline there are enough south African pilots looking for work in SA as it is

[ct2003]

Forget such plan, SA has plenty of pilots waiting for employment so you won't be granted a residence permit (=work permit). Sorry to say...

[napoleon]

I have just pulled out after a 36 year tour of duty, been ragged, bagged and Sha**ed too many times, once at gun point. Forget what you saw on holiday it is a façade behind which lies plenty evil.

[Capetonian]

Agree about Monday's QT, it is a sad insight into where SA is heading under herdboy Zuma and his thugs. The only hope might be someone like Lindiwe Mazibuko, an intelligent, well-educated and presentable black as the head of the opposition. Sadly, because she is educated and speaks properly, she is seen as too 'white' by many of the uneducated blacks, and they won't vote DA because they see it as a 'white' party, and they feel they will be seen as traitors. This is how the ANC is consolidating its grip on the masses. As the Nats kept the masses uneducated so the ANC are doing the same.

As for Peter Hain, that smirking son-of-a-bitch should be sent to live in the hellhole of Zimbabwe under Robber Mugape that he helped to create.

[cavortingcheetah]

SACP condemns booing at Madiba`s memorial service and calls for action (http://www.sacp.org.za/main.php?ID=4156)

The above link takes you straight to the heart of darkness.

[chileno 777]

Breakthesilence (http://www.pprune.org/members/323136-breakthesilence) invite you to read the following interesting article/link with a more positive view about South Africa!


On Angry South African Expats | The Disco Pants Blog (http://discopantsblog.com/2013/10/28/on-angry-south-african-expats/)

[PLovett]

Breakthesilence, I also looked at what you are thinking of doing and contacted the SA Embassy for advice on getting a work permit.

The advice was that pursuing the idea was futile unless you had a local employer who was willing to put up a case that you had skills that could not be found by a local. As my area of expertise was aviation and as there is a glut of local pilots finding such an employer was going to be highly unlikely. I gave up on the idea.

[zoneout]

Nice, chileno 777. Good article :ok:

[Capetonian]

The 2013 John Orr Memorial Lecture was a huge success. The Lecture was presented by Clem Sunter, South Africa’s leading and most well-known global strategist and scenario planner.

The topic was: "The World and South Africa beyond 2013 - The latest scenarios, flags and probabilities.”

The Lecture was most interesting and, as always, Clem was delightfully entertaining and held the audience captive throughout his presentation. The venue was even overfilled with guests eager to listen to Mr Sunter.

The recording of the Lecture is available at the following link:

http://results.antfarm.co.za/saimeche/November_2013_01 (http://www.saimeche.org.za/[email protected]&job=1130325&ymlink=1872667&finalurl=http%3A%2F%2Fresults%2Eantfarm%2Eco%2Eza%2Fsaimeche %2FNovember%5F2013%5F01)

Clem's presentation starts at about 9'45". He starts to get to the point about SA at about 47'.

In the distant past - Clem Sunter was a household name for his work on 'scenario planning' with Anglo American. Then he seemed to drop out of the limelight - but he actually just got VERY busy, as he tells you in this talk.

As discussed in the discussion below - the talk is 1 hour, and you can miss the first 10 minutes of intros - etc. He is the slightly tubby chap with an erratic laugh. WELL WORTH a LISTEN.

The scope of the discussion is very broad - so be prepared to listen to USA vs China, Europe vs The Rest, etc. etc. - but it is mainly about SA and their view of the future. If anyone is serious about thinking about coming to live here - it is REQUIRED LISTENING. Even if you are not - the whole concept of 'scenario planing' and what you intend to do about the 'most likely' future - make for VERY INTERESTING TALK.

[saunj11]

Your welcome to switch passports with me if you want to work in SA :ok:

[I.R.PIRATE]

Yup, you can have my job, car, my house, my wife and my passport, in trade for your passport only.

[CJ750]

You have to have a Military background to get into Comair

[Trossie]

Breakthesilence,The fact is that we are all unsatisfied about the life we are living and the place where we are residing.Not a 'fact' at all!

Come to the pub up the road from me and I'll buy you a pint and have a chat about how I am very satisfied with the life that I'm living and tell you all the good things about the place that I am 'residing'. (Clue: I don't have an 'armed response burglar alarm', they wouldn't be allowed here.)

If you do want to go somewhere really relaxed and peaceful, could I suggest that you read some Tolkien and then look for the 'modern setting'?

[CathayBrat]

Trossie, i hope the Tolkin ref if similar to what we think. The Fall of Mordor - YouTube
BEE, hahahahahahahahaha, having lived in "the rainbow nation", its the bigest piece of :mad: in the countries history, surpassing apartheid as a restriction on colour of one skin.
However, if one wishes to move here.
DON'T
P.s, sorry if the film clip is wrong.

[cavortingcheetah]

A military background for Comair? It wasn't so long ago, mark these words, when you had to be a wee to get in.

[Trossie]

CathayBrat, Nice one!! Yes, one should be careful not to leave place for such glaring ambiguities! I was, of course, thinking of Hobbiton rather than Modor!! And that delightful, peaceful and friendly far-away place that has now taken it on as its new 'home'.

cavorting... , that'll be the 'wees' that start with 'wen'? Bloody hell, how did those fossils manage to hang on there so long? (Or were they younger ones just misusing the name? Just like the 'sailors' calling themselves 'war veterans' who were invading farms there.)

[cavortingcheetah]

Speaking of Middle Earth, herewith a delightful digressive.
An Unexpected Briefing #airnzhobbit - YouTube

[Shrike200]

You don't need a military (spare force) background to get into Comair. That's only required for management types at ops, and the chance to abuse the poor foolish line squids. Apparently you need special airforce training to be able to say 'Don't worry, everything's fine, we have enough pilots, the strain you're feeling is because you're all a bunch of whining pansies, and as for marriage, its overrated - trust us, we know!' Apparently.