PDA

View Full Version : Pilot's watches. Well this was a surprise.


Loose rivets
3rd Dec 2013, 18:11
Why is this particularly RAF ? Surely they were never issued as such.

I got my watch in about 1985. Seiko, with little numbers to tell me how fast I was going. They worked - distances taken from radar returns of ships. One day I took it for a new lens somewhere in Texas. The bloke had a Seiko sign, but he should have had it stuffed up his jacksie. Watch continued to meet chronometer standards, but the lens was a bogus part and other things were just not quite right. I'd been had, but the full extent of the problem was not evident right away.

Anyway, it kept near to perfect time, but I treated it rather like a $50 thing that had got old. Worse, and very unlike me, I marked it getting the back off. Badly. Now I find it's one of the more collectable ones.:ugh:

It still keeps perfect time, and unlike this one has a clean dial, luminous paint and a strap. It seems the strap is worth about what I paid for the lot.

It just goes to show it pays to keep everything nice. There are even 1960s trannies that are worth more than a 50" telly now.



Seiko Flightmaster RAF Royal Force Chronograph Watch 7A38 7000 Blk Dial 80'S | eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181266204363&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en)

tony draper
3rd Dec 2013, 18:22
We didn't have Transvestites in 1960 :=
It weren't allowed.
:rolleyes:

Windy Militant
3rd Dec 2013, 18:44
There are even 1960s trannies that are worth more than a 50" telly now.

Are there any left I thought they finished them all off making the Sweeny! :}

VP959
3rd Dec 2013, 18:58
I still have my (very, very reliable) 1984 vintage Seiko watch (it replaced my old Longines that was the previous standard issue) that someone didn't ask me to return on retirement............................

Mine's the original Seiko (NSN 6645--99-7683056), the first "electronic" aircrew watch that was issued, I think. It's a bit scratched and battered now, and some of the buttons stick a bit, but it's still in regular use.

Can't get free straps for it from SE anymore, and my last station had an "old for new" policy to stop people nicking straps. My strap is now on it's last legs, so I'll have to hunt around for a new one. The straps are non-standard, as the pins are fixed to the watch, so the strap has to have the double section thingy. I'm too old to have mates that can still blag them from the SE store....................

ShyTorque
3rd Dec 2013, 19:09
Many employers give you a nice watch for years of faithful service. The RAF gives you a watch when you join then makes you give it back when you leave.

Even worse, I was issued an old wind up one at BFTS (not even the date on it). It got lost in a German field of long grass during a no-notice exercise inject requiring an NBC protective suit change alongside my parked Puma, just as we were about to launch. When I reported the loss to clothing stores, they billed me a small fortune for a much newer electronic type, much more expensive than the Noddy thing I'd lost on duty. :mad:

ExSp33db1rd
3rd Dec 2013, 21:18
What's the origin of the Pilots and Big Watch's thing ?

In the early 60's I was told the tale of the Stewardess who complained to the hotel manager that all the pilots were running naked around the swimming pool, and could he send some staff to stop them ?

He said - "if they're naked how do you know that they're pilots ?" Well, she said, "they've all got big watches and little cocks."

Not new, but when, and how, did it start ?

Old BOAC Crew may remember the cartoon of the Capt. and Flt. Eng sat, unconcerned, in deck chairs around the Karachi Crew Resthouse swimming pool, beers in hand - of course - looking at bubbles rising from the deep end of the pool. The caption read - "Very sad, he dived in and his Seiko, Automatic, Waterproof, World Time, Chronometer, Day Date Calendar watch dragged him to the bottom."

I wear a $10 plastic Casio analogue watch, keeps remarkably good time, and as I no longer have to plot my position relevant to the accurate time keeping required for Astro Naviagtion - and when I did I relied on the aircraft clock,recently set to an HF time signal transmitted by something called WWVH, situated somewhere in Arizona ( I think, or was that the Hawaii repeater? ) - who cares ?

My watch is a tool, not a fashion statement. ( I'll keep the US $1300 thank you very much.)

Fareastdriver
3rd Dec 2013, 21:29
I am at the moment wearing a Seiko 5 Day/date automatic that I bought in Singapore in 1968. It has got some small scratches on the glass and gains about 30 secs a week.

G-CPTN
3rd Dec 2013, 21:30
I'll keep the US $1300 thank you very muchEspecially as there is no strap.

BenThere
3rd Dec 2013, 21:34
I've been wearing a rather pedestrian Seiko with a pilot's bezel slide rule (so as to comply with FARs still in effect) for over 10 years. I replace the battery every 2-3 years and enjoy rugged, total reliability.

I could really get by with no watch at all these days as the GPS on board the airplane gives me all the time info I need.

SpringHeeledJack
3rd Dec 2013, 21:36
No box, No Manuel :p Watch only! says the ad. They won't be selling it to John Cleese then....



SHJ

Fareastdriver
3rd Dec 2013, 21:42
I looked into replacing the crystal on my Seiko. I could have had a replacement glass, not Seiko, for 35 plus P&P. I can still buy a new Seiko 5 for 49.

Loose rivets
3rd Dec 2013, 22:09
What is that - a glass or a cheap watch?

Tell you what the old lens did that the new one doesn't: it used to reflect an incredibly focused beam, maintaining a small circle on distant walls. The finest beam I've ever seen that's not a laser.


The bloke in Texas put in a bogus part (as they say in airplane-speak) and even then, crushed it in so it was not quite flat. It's only detectable with one's fingernail comparing sides. However, mine also has a stopwatch button that has to be pulled back with a thumbnail. Shame, but the worst and irreparable damage was my heavy-handedness with a pair of long nose pliers, trying to undo the back. If I could travel back in time, I'd kick my backside. Still, it's way better than the one shown. That one has a back that's obviously corroded and pitted by sweat. Astonishing.

The strap for that one is on his site. At least, it looks like mine. Hell of a price, but yes, the ends are different and very tricky.

BenThere
3rd Dec 2013, 22:18
Always enjoyed, on the street in Hong Kong, when I was accosted by the hawker selling his fake Rolex, asking, "Do you have any fake Timex or Casios?" They always leave you alone after that.

Loose rivets
3rd Dec 2013, 22:23
I looked at the PDF manual and stared bewildered. I just can not believe any watch could be that complicated. The number of oil points is incredible - I imagine servicing this type would run into many, many skilled hours.


Mobius oil ! What the heck is that? And only some of the lube points require that type, the rest are some other watch oil.


I've still got the books and the receipt (purchased new) from the UK seller. I've even got the box . . . somewhere.

I've told this story before, but I went into the Colchester shop that sold it to me, and the son, now retired himself, sidled up to me and asked if he could help me.

"No thanks, you sold me this 22 years ago, and it scarcely lost more than a few seconds in all those years."

(Well gained, actually. Chronometers do not allow any loss.)

Instead of being pleased, he just walked away without a word.

This looks like my strap, but I'm too covered in chainsaw detritus to go to hobby bench.

Seiko G757 LCD Watch Sq Bracelet James Bond Type 80's Lug 20 mm Japan Made C212 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEIKO-G757-LCD-Watch-SQ-Bracelet-James-Bond-TYPE-80s-Lug-20-mm-Japan-made-C212-/181266526015?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a3453af3f)




.

Worrals in the wilds
3rd Dec 2013, 22:35
...looked into replacing the crystal on my Seiko. I could have had a replacement glass, not Seiko, for 35 plus P&P. I can still buy a new Seiko 5 for 49. That sounds like my Loyal (Aussie brand) divers watch. The battery change and standard service cost over half of what the watch originally cost. :hmm:
"Do you have any fake Timex or Casios?" ROFL :ok:. I'll have to try that.

Loose rivets
3rd Dec 2013, 22:39
I'm not sure how to get mine out of the case. I gather the lens is pressed in, but then that idiot may well have had to press it because it was a 'pattern' part.

The first lens, as I implied, was fantastic, but still not very hard, because I never wore my watch while tinkering with DIY or cars etc.

rmcb
3rd Dec 2013, 23:01
Why would a watch come with a manual containing Exocet viewpoints of ship silhouettes?

'Big watches and little cocks'... Superb!

Dushan
3rd Dec 2013, 23:10
My 1981 Rolex Submariner that cost $1,200 is till worn by my son. It was recently overhauled at a cost of $600, by Rolex, and appraised at 6,500.

Tankertrashnav
3rd Dec 2013, 23:12
When I was in Hong Kong I bought an automatic Seiko for about a tenner - nothing fancy, but I wore it all through my time as a nav, and found it more accurate than the black-faced wind-up Omega which the RAF issued me with.

Always amused to see these described as "pilots' watches" on ebay, etc. I always thought pilots' watches were the ones with a little Mickey Mouse on the dial ;)

con-pilot
4th Dec 2013, 00:14
Always amused to see these described as "pilots' watches" on ebay, etc. I always thought pilots' watches were the ones with a little Mickey Mouse on the dial

Well, that is the Seiko that I have worn for years, the Mickey Mouse series. I bought it when I went to work for the Marshal Service in 1988, to reflect the type of organization it was. I also had a pair of Micky Mouse pilot wings I wore on my flight suit (aka pickle bag), but that's another story.

That watch is the most accurate watch I have ever owned or even seen. If it lost more than two seconds a month, it needed a new battery. I could always tell the pilots that wore Rolexs, as the first thing that they would so when they got into the cockpit, was to fire up the HF radio for a time check and then adjust their Rolexs.

Now a little known fact about Seiko watches, really important. Seiko spelled backward, spells 'Okies'.

Bet you didn't know that. :p


Another pilot and I discoved this amazing fact one night sitting in a hotel bar in New Orleans while enjoying many Scotch and waters.

Pappa Smurf
4th Dec 2013, 00:23
My son wanted a watch for X-mas------so I let him.

ricardian
4th Dec 2013, 00:35
When we moved to Orkney ten years ago we were advised to get rid of our watches and buy a calendar

dubbleyew eight
4th Dec 2013, 01:10
I had been trying to buy a watch with the e6b bezel for years and couldnt find one. I actually use an e6b.

gave up the hunt and bought a seiko solar charged electronic watch.
will not need a battery change for a decade or more.

in the local Big C superstore in Bangkok you can buy an electronic watch for 79 baht.
I have one of these that is still keeping exact time more than a year after I bought it. 79 baht is the equivalent of $2.18 australian.

Loose rivets
4th Dec 2013, 05:38
Well, I've found a fantastic site. Pictures galore, and good writeups.

My watch is in pieces on the hobby bench - no, not the one I'm doing the chainsaw on. :p

Anyway, I wouldn't have had the [email protected] to go ahead if it wasn't for this site.

It's the first time I've taken the 'movement' out since 1985. Gosh, the gunge under the buttons. Just human remains, I suppose.

Topic: HELP 7A38-7000 Button not working - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers (http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/9187301-help-7a38-7000-button-not-working)

Loose rivets
4th Dec 2013, 08:51
Well, made a start. Haven't got much kit here. Not for fettlin' tiny stuff anyway.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/walnaze/PpruNe/DSC_1802_zpsf961a284.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/walnaze/media/PpruNe/DSC_1802_zpsf961a284.jpg.html)


Much dirt in nooks and crannies. The hardest part was taking the minute circlips off the button stem. I imagined trying to find something in the long carpet that was too small to see.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/walnaze/PpruNe/DSC_1800_zpsb6e49b58.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/walnaze/media/PpruNe/DSC_1800_zpsb6e49b58.jpg.html)

VP959
4th Dec 2013, 09:45
Well, I've found a fantastic site. Pictures galore, and good writeups.

My watch is in pieces on the hobby bench - no, not the one I'm doing the chainsaw on.

Anyway, I wouldn't have had the [email protected] to go ahead if it wasn't for this site.

It's the first time I've taken the 'movement' out since 1985. Gosh, the gunge under the buttons. Just human remains, I suppose.

Topic: HELP 7A38-7000 Button not working - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers


Thanks for that link, I may (when I'm feeling brave.....) have a go at getting the buttons to work again on my 1984 vintage service issue one.

The only time it's a problem is when I have to change the battery, as for some reason it always manages to get the small chrono dials out of sync. IF the buttons work then re-syncing the chrono dials is easy, often just doing the "sweep test" will get them all lined up neatly. With sticky buttons this turns onto an exercise fraught with frustration.

As others have said, the accuracy is pretty amazing. Even after all these years mine is rarely out by more than one or two seconds a month. I don't know about the accuracy degrading as the battery fails, but mine has a battery warning indicator - the second hand starts jumping in two second increments when the battery needs replacing. It'll run like this for a few weeks before it just stops, but still seems to keep good time.

Fliegenmong
4th Dec 2013, 10:00
The 2 Irish lesbians down the road gave me a Rolex once....I had once mentioned that I wanted a watch :E

MagnusP
4th Dec 2013, 11:02
ricardian:

get rid of our watches and buy a calendar

Thought you lot just used the standing stones at Stenness. ;)

Blacksheep
4th Dec 2013, 13:15
Fantastic Laminar Flow bench you've got there, rivets!
You'll be able to buy a new watch with all the money you've saved. :}

G-CPTN
4th Dec 2013, 13:22
I imagined trying to find something in the long carpet that was too small to see.
Use a vacuum (cleaner) with a nylon stocking (tights) over the end of the tube (or search through the 'debris' in the bag/box.

My cleaner separates solids from dust (there are at least three receptacles) so dropped items can be recovered.

Loose rivets
4th Dec 2013, 16:56
That's a good idea. I have a superdoopa magnet in the garage - that was in the back of my mind. The circlips are about the diameter of 2 -3 grains of salt. Went to bed last night at 2:30 with 2 out of the three done. One was still sticking after ages of cleaning the tunnel in which the O ring on the shaft moves. Two pairs of gasses and a X 10 revealed some pitting in the tube. :{
Thought I'd got away with that.


The bench sits in the wardrobe area of the bedroom behind the integral garage. A room suggested to be for the maid. Don't I wish.:E I saw it on a neighbor's drives some years ago, and gave him a few bucks for it. Superb oak, but needed total rubdown and re-gluing in parts. The top is ideal for electronics. A lamp from goodwill, a good one with the base missing, was made to work with a hole drilled in the surface. Works better than a stand - this one can't fall over. Lamp has fluro and tungsten spotlight in the same shade. Not bad for $4. In fact, it's the only piece of furniture that I'd like to take to the UK. But I won't . . . I've learned my lesson. The Henredon desk I took there is still in storage. No one bid high enough when I tried to sell it.

Right, back to the motley.

vee-tail-1
4th Dec 2013, 17:30
Still have my 1960 RAF Coastal Command issue Jaeger clockwork watch. Continued to wear it in BOAC until I fell over coming out of a bar in Bermuda. No damage to me but the shock broke the escapement shaft. Never been able to find anyone able to fix it ... clock work watch makers seem to have gone extinct.

Loose rivets
4th Dec 2013, 20:38
I made a knee pad for doin' me instrument rating to split-second accuracy. Nice it were, made of aluminium sheet and the curved thigh bit riveted to the writing surface and it's near vertical watch panel. I bought one Timex pocket watch and one ex military stopwatch of the same size. The latter was superb. The escapement was hit, nay, kissed by two chunks of ruby big enough for earrings. The case was supremely precise and I imagine covered in nickle chrome. Near to perfection it were. I drilled two holes in its back and bolted it to the knee pad. :ugh:

Well, it's unlikely it cost more than thirty bob - much like my P11 compass, new in its wooden box.

Fareastdriver
4th Dec 2013, 21:25
My watchmaker in China had two prices for me.
Fully Automatic; Rolex, Omega, Jaeger le Coutreand, Breiltling were RMB300; about 20.

Electric versions were RMB200, though I wouldn't lower myself to buy one of those.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/fareastdriver/IMG_0002_zps5c11ffeb.jpg[/URL][/IMG]

I gave a few away as presents but I kept a few for myself.

Nothing wrong with them. They have to be reset every time I wear one but really they are only pieces of jewelry.

I grauched the one on the left's crystal once and when it was opened up it had a mass of jewelled bearings inside. It amazes me how they can be made at such a cheap price and it follows on how much are you being taken for a ride by the high fashion watchmakers.

Blacksheep
4th Dec 2013, 21:40
clock work watch makers seem to have gone extinct.As an Instrument Basher, part of my job in the instrument calibration workshop at RAF Changi was the repair and calibration of aircrew watches. I've never done any since because the potential income doesn't justify the cost of the tools.

ExSp33db1rd
4th Dec 2013, 22:40
........until I fell over coming out of a bar in Bermuda

The Hog Penny ?

VP959
4th Dec 2013, 23:03
OK, I took the plunge and decided to try and free up the buttons on my 7A28 7120 Seiko, as so clearly explained in the links above.

All went well at first. Large sheet of white paper laid out, with magnifier stand and light, plus the necessary tools to remove the back, small screws etc. Got the movement out OK, using the trick to hold down the release catch to remove the winder spindle. Luckily the small U shaped contacts that the pusher buttons bear on seemed OK; one was very slightly rusty, but nothing that wouldn't wipe off.

The problem seemed to be the buttons sticking in the case, so with a fine nosed pair of pliers I removed the circlip on the first button and removed it. There was an amazing amount of gunk behind the button, so after a bit of cleaning out with a small artists paintbrush and some IPA the recess, button spring and button shaft seal were all clean and moved freely again, I dripped a bit of very light oil on the button spindle, reassembled it and put the extremely tiny circlip back on. The button now slips in and out like new, so I thought I was home and dry, just two more to clean.

Unfortunately I then discovered how slippery these tiny circlips are, The next one came off and pinged into oblivion. Unfortunately they seem to be non-magnetic, as an hour our so of searching with a powerful neodymium magnet failed to find it.

Nevertheless, I pressed on and decided to have a go at the last button, This time the circlip came off easily and I cleaned up the case and button so that it moved freely again. However, on reassembly the circlip for this one also made a bid for freedom and is now missing.

Luckily you can buy all the parts for these watches from a well -known auctions site, so not only have I ordered some new circlips but I've also invested in a new crystal to replace the rather scratched one on my 29 year old watch. The same dealer also had the original grey canvas straps in stock, so I've ordered one of those as well.

The real shock was looking around at second hand watch sites and seeing just how much money was being demanded for these 1st generation military issue Seikos. I had absolutely no idea they were worth more than about 20, hence all the scratches to the crystal. Had I know the value I'd have worn my old (1969) Omega Seamaster 300 more often, which is probably worth less than the Seiko, it seems.

Loose rivets
4th Dec 2013, 23:45
Yes, that's what spurred me into action.

Mine's back on me wrist, but sans the O ring. Stretched. I've set the back on with a trace of silicone on the thread. I've no intention of getting it wet, so it'll do for now.

I put a blob of silicone on the shaft and the circlip. Hardly see it in the goo, but when I slipped it just stayed in the blob.

The bloke on the forum (the owner) Dremmels a cut in a screwdriver to go astride the button shaft and then presses on the ends of the circlip. A 15 pence tool.

The shafts on mine are about 1.25 mm, so I used a drill in back to front and rubbed the drill shank longwise with emery to roughen it. It was then a very fine mill. One hole, the really troublesome one, had some kind of high spot, and I took ages milling and testing before it suddenly became free. ( I had checked the offending button in another hole and vici-verki)

I used the silicone on the shafts, and packed the head of the button with the stuff. Used air to rid it of the surplus after lots of presses. I figure this will protect from wet air - at least to some extent.

The strap took ages to clean. Last done about 6 years ago. Human detritus.

It seems one does not need to take the bezel off on mine to press out the old lens. One has to be very, very careful that the press pushes clear of the Tachy-dial. Yer man broke one of those in his early days. I found this out just after I'd popped of my bezel. Oddly, it has a ring of white plastic crushed in the fit. Nothing else seems to hold on the entire front ring/crystal. I mentioned on the forum (his) that it was like going from Rolex to Timex in the width of the watch. It's even got a little space to pry the ring off. Unnerving that, I'm very uncertain my thumb pressure has taken it truly home. Must have been at least 50 pounds, possibly more. It certainly marked my hands as it pressed in. I'll do it again when I get a lens - next time with a press. Did the wife's on a 5' high drill press with blocks of wood. Needed colossal pressure to get the back on. $15 watch put at risk. (I bought her a beautiful Seiko self wind years ago. She didn't want it.)

In the forum he recommends a certain place for crystals for better quality. They sound very cheap - even from the good company. Oh, and there's a box of circlips on offer - if you need a dozen or so. ;)


Keep us posted.

Metro man
5th Dec 2013, 00:19
For the price of a couple of links from a strap for a Rolex, you could get a reasonable quality watch.

Rolex Mens Steel Strap 2 Links 16 MM AND 15 5 MM Aside | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/Rolex-mens-steel-strap-2-links-16-mm-and-15-5-mm-aside-/221161122706?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337e3aeb92&_uhb=1)

pigboat
5th Dec 2013, 04:09
..we were advised to get rid of our watches and buy a calendar.
Flying an Otter, were you? ;)

vee-tail-1
5th Dec 2013, 09:52
ExSp33db1rd That's the one :ok::O

Seiko7A38
5th Dec 2013, 16:33
Well, I've found a fantastic site. Pictures galore, and good writeups.

Glad you found the site helpful, Rob - Sorry LR. :ok:

May I give you a few pointers to a couple of other threads ? :cool:

For those other posters who've had trouble with Seiko 7Axx pusher circlips pinging off into the stratosphere (or shag pile carpet):

Topic: My 'patented' Pusher Circlip / C-clip Removal Tool - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers (http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7375322-my-patented-pusher-circlip-c-clip-removal-tool)


A running commentary on the current selling prices for 7A28 RAF Gen. 1's:

Topic: The 7A28-7120 RAF Gen 1 PriceWatch thread - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers (http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/9140083-the-7a28-7120-raf-gen-1-pricewatch-thread)

Something else possibly of interest to you 'fly boys', particularly any Springboks:

Topic: SAAF Chrono's 7A28-7040 & 7A38-7070 - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers (http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/8860635-saaf-chrono-s-7a28-7040-7a38-7070)


Two more D-I-Y repair threads (of the many in that 'Bend it, Mend it' section):
The first one is a stainless 7A38-7000 which I built up from two ex-eBay 'basket cases':

Topic: A very long-term restoration project: 7A38-7000 with 'patina' - or not worth effort ? - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers (http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/9414421-a-very-long-term-restoration-project-7a38-7000-with-patina-or-not-worth-effort-)

The second is an ongoing repair of a 7A28-7120 RAF Gen 1 - with some irony:

Topic: Is battery terminal damage reason for dead movement? - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers (http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/9476931-is-battery-terminal-damage-reason-for-dead-movement-)


I trust my posting these few links won't be construed as [email protected] :p

Seiko7A38
5th Dec 2013, 16:55
LR - I must admit that I had a little chuckle to myself when I saw how your thread started off:

Why is this particularly RAF ? Surely they were never issued as such.

SEIKO FLIGHTMASTER RAF Royal force Chronograph watch 7A38-7000 blk dial 80's | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181266204363)



Simple - this watch has nothing to do with the RAF - the 7A38-7000 was never issued, as neither was the mythical yellow-dialed 7A38-701B 'Vulcan'.
This is purely a case of an eBay seller trying it on. Were a watch in this (poor) condition to be offered in a no reserve eBay auction, it would be lucky to make $100.

This same 7A38-7000 has been re-listed on eBay on and off since September last year.
You'll find a few mentions of it on the forum - in the 7A38-7000 model thread (which gives one possible explanation):

Topic: 7A38-7000 SAA007J - Stainless - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers (http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7203858-7a38-7000-saa007j-stainless)

and here, halfway down the second page of this thread:

Topic: Yet another OPPORTUNISTIC asking price for a 7A38 ! - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers (http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7265125-yet-another-opportunistic-asking-price-for-a-7a38-?page=2)

All I can do is flag [email protected] like this and hope no 'mug punter' falls for it. :rolleyes:

Loose rivets
5th Dec 2013, 17:42
Ah, Mr 7A38, welcome!


A word of caution. Spending time on the Jet Blast part of PPRuNe, can seriously effect your psychological well-being, though I have learned things in here on subject as diverse as drilling wells in Texas through to mending chainsaws and on to removing one's gall bladder using only mirrors and the implements found in the typical kitchen. It's a mine of information.

I shall try to locate a lens on this side of the ocean, but failing that, I'll unpack my tools back in the UK and resume the task there. Thanks for your wonderful site.



.

Mallan
5th Dec 2013, 22:02
Breitling Cosmonaute Purchased in 1972. Still going strong. 140.

Loose rivets
5th Dec 2013, 22:25
They have more scales on them than an Aristo 'computer'. I'd become confused.

Seiko7A38
6th Dec 2013, 15:16
Speaking of scales, and (thinly disguised) Seiko 7A38's designed for pilots' use here's a couple of re-branded ones:

A Yema N8 Flygraf:

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa373/Seiko7A38/CGH%20-%20Yema%20Jaz%20Kamatz%20N8/P1201027_zps7f89d357.jpg

A Kamatz 518000 'Oscar Bravo':

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa373/Seiko7A38/CGH%20-%20Yema%20Jaz%20Kamatz%20N8/P1201451.jpg


The scales on those two are pretty much self-explanatory (even for me) they're rotary slide rules. :cool:
But could any pilot on here tell me what the scales on a Kamatz 519000 'Tango Charlie' were supposed to do ?

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa373/Seiko7A38/CGH%20-%20Yema%20Jaz%20Kamatz%20N8/Kamatz-7A38-PilotsChrono-519000-TricolourSubDials-eBay-June2009-1.jpg

Loose rivets
7th Dec 2013, 20:31
Well, I put it on 'Tech Log' where it was promptly removed.

Shame, I thought it was a fairly interesting technical question.


VS Vertical Speed? Anyone?

VP959
7th Dec 2013, 20:43
Interestingly, I have just bought some parts (inspired by this thread and the fix to the buttons on my own 7A28) and had an interesting exchange with the seller of some of the parts. He asked exactly which model I wanted the new rear gasket for, so I replied that it was for a 7A28 7120. The reply was that this was probably one of the best chronographs made, and that I was lucky to own it. It inspired me to seek out a genuine new crystal (with the right ground bevel) to replace the very scratched one on mine, so having read up on how to go about fixing these things, I spent an hour this afternoon machining up a pair of plastic (ABS) dies to push out the old crystal and push in the new one to the case of my old watch. I reckon I can do this using the dies in my drill press, as I don't have the special tool.

I'm looking forward to having a fully functional, looks like new, 7A28 7120 before long, and heartily thank those here that have pointed me in the right direction to get this very nice watch back to near as-new condition.

flash8
7th Dec 2013, 20:47
Back in blighty wandering past one of those numerous Cash whatsit shops and a watch caught my eye in the window.

http://www.zen156211.zen.co.uk/seiko.jpg

They were flogging an old Seiko Chrono for 50... normally wouldn't be interested but I knew this type... the old RAF Navigator issue from the 80's and 90's (this was the GEN2 edition) complete with MOD markings on the reverse and the P(romethium) Symbol.

Tight bastard as I am offered them 40 which was duly accepted... must have thought I were a mug (may be right though..)

Sold to a mate for 300..... nice little earner.

Seiko7A38
7th Dec 2013, 21:14
He asked exactly which model I wanted the new rear gasket for, so I replied that it was for a 7A28 7120 ....

It inspired me to seek out a genuine new crystal (with the right ground bevel) to replace the very scratched one on mine,

@VP959

If you've browsed this thread on my forum:
Topic: Crystals and gaskets - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers (http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7187327-crystals-and-gaskets)
You may have already found the answers for yourself.

There are only two case-back gaskets used across the whole Seiko 7Axx range. You'll need a Seiko p/n FH3181B01

The original Seiko crystal p/n 300WF0GN00 is obsolete and NLA. That's why you see so many Gen. 1's fitted with any old cheap replacement glass. I've identified an alternative which is about as close in terms of appearance (ground bevel edge) and exact dimensions as you're likely to find - Sternkreuz p/n XMF 300.860

You can get them both from Cousins UK.

VP959
7th Dec 2013, 22:10
300 for a Gen 2!!!!

Pretty amazing, as the Gen 2 is generally considered to be far inferior to the Gen 1 (the 7A28 7120 that I have), according to the Seiko aficionados.

Makes me wonder what my soon to be near perfect 7A28 7120 Gen 1 is likely to be worth. I'd always thought it was worth a lot less than my ex-military 1969 vintage Omega Seamaster 300 divers watch (which is currently in better condition than my Gen 1 Seiko, although it doesn't keep such good time).

flash8
8th Dec 2013, 02:05
300 for a Gen 2!!!!

Mate loves this sort of stuff but isn't a total mug as he checked eBay prices beforehand (so did I of course :)).

Personally have a fifteen year old battered Tag which has seen many a shocking situation... if only watches could speak I'd probably being doing time in some dodgy countries.. (hmm pun not intended actually):)

Loose rivets
8th Dec 2013, 05:55
Using this "computer's inner workings clock test site" I've been checking my 7A38 7000 since re casing. It was so near to perfect yesterday I couldn't detect a difference, but today, getting into the rhythm and going back to the screen, I would assess my watch has gained about 1/4 of a second. A just detectable lead. One will check it daily.

Time in El Segundo now - Time.is (http://time.is/)

Funnily enough, according to Mr 7A38's site, the setting device in the watch is defaulted to an error way outside my memory of the chronometer standard. (opens another browser to check.)

Oh, well I'll go to the foot of our stairs. My 40 year-old memory is of plus 3 / minus 0 seconds per month. The sites I looked at seemed to be saying it was nothing like this accuracy. This one has something to say for Seiko.

COSC Vs. Grand Seiko Chronometer Standards - A Comparison (http://forums.watchuseek.com/f365/cosc-vs-grand-seiko-chronometer-standards-comparison-339975.html)

I didn't put mine in the fridge or subject it to any kind of Texas weather. (+30 to +4 in a week) Or shock it with 100g. It just sat there being more or less right for 20-odd years. Now I'm puzzled, but inspired to press on with the testing.

haughtney1
8th Dec 2013, 06:23
Still can't go past my G-Shock,

All the usual bells and whistles, plus it tells the time...and the great thing is..the only time I ever have had to take it off was to get a new battery after 4 years.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f200/haughtney/e07e9a5d-f682-49f9-a5a3-16abb2756879.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/haughtney/media/e07e9a5d-f682-49f9-a5a3-16abb2756879.jpg.html)

VP959
8th Dec 2013, 10:13
@VP959

If you've browsed this thread on my forum:
Topic: Crystals and gaskets - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers
You may have already found the answers for yourself.

There are only two case-back gaskets used across the whole Seiko 7Axx range. You'll need a Seiko p/n FH3181B01

The original Seiko crystal p/n 300WF0GN00 is obsolete and NLA. That's why you see so many Gen. 1's fitted with any old cheap replacement glass. I've identified an alternative which is about as close in terms of appearance (ground bevel edge) and exact dimensions as you're likely to find - Sternkreuz p/n XMF 300.860

You can get them both from Cousins UK.

Thanks, I have browsed that thread and found it very useful. The new crystal I now have seems to be identical to the one in the watch (which I know is the original, as I've had it since being issued with it in a cardboard box back in 1984). As far as I can tell the bevel is the same (I haven't taken the old crystal out yet to be absolutely sure), at about 0.8mm across the face. The new crystal has a bevel that looks very slightly more polished, perhaps, than the original, but that's the only very slight difference I can see.

Seiko7A38
8th Dec 2013, 10:56
@ LR, ref.

Funnily enough, according to Mr 7A38's site, the setting device in the watch is defaulted to an error way outside my memory of the chronometer standard. (opens another browser to check.)

Oh, well I'll go to the foot of our stairs. My 40 year-old memory is of plus 3 / minus 0 seconds per month. The sites I looked at seemed to be saying it was nothing like this accuracy. This one has something to say for Seiko.

The Seiko 7Axx movement can be adjusted for accuracy in +/- 0.26 seconds per day increments using the rotary step switch. I've tweaked a few of my own watches and have at least ten in my collection which are keeping better than +/- 10 seconds per year.

See: Topic: 7A28 / 7A38 / 7A48 Accuracy - rate adjustment - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers (http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7777735-7a28-7a38-7a48-accuracy-rate-adjustment)

and: Other Links - Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers (http://www.seiko7a38.com/otherlinks.htm) (for the other links mentioned in that thread).

Loose rivets
9th Dec 2013, 02:10
Oh, NO! 3/4 of a second fast! This can't be right. This is serious. Has the vapour of my breath been a factor? Can the watch sense the outside air temperature? (For Texas, a bizarrely cold 9c) Improbable.

Does silicone emit slippery molecules? If so, some must have escaped the confines of the button shafts. Perhaps the Time.is site is faulty, but then, most of them are taken from GPS time, and that's adjusted for relativistic effects and should be accurate to .000000000000000000000000000000000001 of a second . . . on a bad day.

One will report on Monday night, but this is unnerving, I've never had to alter it before, well, not counting when I stopped leaving it on GMT at all times.

Worrals in the wilds
9th Dec 2013, 02:57
Still can't go past my G-Shock,They were popular with SASR types because of the durability.
Then everyone found out they were popular with SASR types, so all the wannabes went out and bought one too. I suggested the pink baby G to a friend in that line of work so he could look different from the wannabes, which was returned with a thousand yard stare. :\:}

Seiko7A38, thanks for taking the time (pun not intended :}) to post that warning. Vivat internet! :ok:

Loose rivets
9th Dec 2013, 07:50
I've just purchased another one. Gold plated this time. I liked the gold when they were new and they matched my stripey arms, but then, I've always had a passion for stainless. Glad I got the one I did.

Bloke I met occasionally at LGW showed me his gold one on the same week I'd bought my steel one. c 1985. He said he woke up with it on his wrist after a heavy session. He had a Visa receipt to bring things into focus. Still, not a bad impulse buy going on their desirability now.

haughtney1
9th Dec 2013, 12:22
Worralls..

Then everyone found out they were popular with SASR types, so all the wannabes went out and bought one too. I suggested the pink baby G to a friend in that line of work so he could look different from the wannabes, which was returned with a thousand yard stare.

What's an SASR type? Soldier wannabe?

G-CPTN
9th Dec 2013, 12:36
SASR type (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Air_Service_Regiment).

haughtney1
9th Dec 2013, 12:43
Thanks G-CPTN, I'm about as far removed from that as I'm likely to be, apart from, it would appear,..my watch.

Loose rivets
20th Dec 2013, 04:32
Filling in the gaps between landscaping, car fixing and general structural DIY, I'm still rather taken with learning about the inner workings of my 7A38-7000s - plural.

Having 'won' on eeeee-bay a gold plated version of the same thing, I set about trying to destroy it with a new cack-handedness obviously acquired with advancing years and excessive vino. I was a one man demolition squad, launching into tasks as though I'd still got the hands and indeed, eyes, of someone that fettled fusee movements without the aid of specs. (didn't do much. Just attached the chain on the drum and away it went.)

This morning, I went to bed c 05:00 after looking at photo after photo of watch-fettling on the aforementioned site. Got tired, but propped me eyes open with matches and reentered the world of rusted-out batteries and damaged circuit boards. Fascinating. Put in an order for tools and parts from an American supplier.

PM me for any data needed, though I have no awareness of the quality of the product. However, a Radio Shack battery at $6.99 translated to 99 cents - and by a known maker. (one that breeds rabbits.) The crystal lenses were $2.99 I ordered a couple of 32.5 X 1.5 beveled, and one 32.4, to hedge my bets. I don't expect too much at that price, but I need to hone my skills on low value parts.

I noticed they sold a lens polishing wax. I'd already broken my (gold watch) lens getting it out, but since it was beveled and the myriad scratches were not deep, I might have had a bash at polishing them out. My frustration increased when I found it had a small bevel on the inside - to aid insertion. I'm lead to believe this indicates a Seiko original crystal and its thickness would have allowed polishing without touching the bezel. Academic now.

What I have learned is that the gold is very, very delicate. In a moment of madness . . . no, two moments of madness, I managed to mark it twice. Once getting the bezel off and again straitening a kinked link. The frustrating thing is, I got the link almost perfect, but then marked it just to one side of the target area. It's not bad, but I know it's there.

Getting the circlips off. By the second watch I was forearmed. I copied the site owner's homemade device - a slotted screwdriver - but to cover all bases, not only dabbed on a touch of silicone, but covered the entire job in a foot square sheet of shrink-wrap. At first, I tried to do it laparoscopically. It was okay, but then I wondered why I was puggling inside. I then simply probed down onto the plastic - with a much clearer view - and they popped off easily. The one that did escape the main blob, carried enough silicone on its travels to stick itself to the surface just 20mm away. They are still stuck to the paper under the dust cover - a piece of Tupperware that hasn't been missed yet.

I am apprehensive about the refitting. One tutorial shows the fitting of the lens into the bezel while it's removed. That seems okay if one is mindful of the delicacy of the ring, but it takes quite a pressure to fit the bezel onto the watch body. I'm not at all sure I want to press on even a bedded-in lens as hard as that and I doubt my concave press dies will remain clear of the glass. I'll see when they arrive. The one really difficult issue is getting the Tacho ring between the bezel and the body. That small plastic ring, with its minute numbers, really ups the anti.

I'm going to need to seek advice about lubing the O rings/seals. Silicone would perhaps see the lens escaping some time in the future, and water, well, water seems to find its way into this model all too easily.

I'll pop a photo or two in later.

VP959
23rd Dec 2013, 18:05
I replaced the crystal on my old 7A28 1120 yesterday. Dead easy, although I'll admit to being very cautious at first.

I turned up two bits of Delrin on the lathe, one a disc with a counterbore very slightly larger in diameter than the crystal and maybe 3mm deep, the other was turned to a diameter very slightly smaller than the crystal and faced off smoothly. The second one was drilled and fitted with a bit of steel rod so I could stick it in the chuck of my bench drill press. I removed the movement from the case, placed the case face down over the bit of Delrin with the counterbore in it, then with the other bit in the drill chuck I used the stationary drill press to push the old (and very scratched) crystal out. It came out very easily, and I just reversed the process (turned the case up the other way and rested it on the flip side of the Delrin block) to press in the new crystal. This went in with a bit more pressure, but not enough to have me worried about cracking it.

Having now cleaned out all the buttons to stop them sticking and replaced the battery and crystal, the watch looks and works like it did when made back in 1984. I just need to get a decent strap for it, as the last grey issue strap I have is on its last legs.

SASless
23rd Dec 2013, 21:38
I am able to be mugged and make a profit out of it.

My Rolex GMT Master, bought for $1200 almost twenty years ago and worn ever since.....has been apprised by the Insurance Company at $6500. If I were ever to claim against the insurance....I would buy a G-Shock and pocket the difference!

Dushan
23rd Dec 2013, 22:35
I noticed they sold a lens polishing wax.

Just use tothpaste without any water on a paper towel.

Dave Wilson
23rd Dec 2013, 22:49
Citizen Red Arrows for me. I know, sad. The selling point was that it never needed a new battery as it works off sunlight. Or something.

Which reminds me when I did my mechs course we had to do watch repairing (somewhere on my records it says 'watchmaker') which was quite interesting. Basically you took a clock to bits and rebuilt it.

Loose rivets
25th Jan 2014, 06:59
Well, I'm back having finished the gold one and purchased another 7A38. This time a 728A. I paid altogether too much for it knowing that its main function of telling the time had failed, but it looked nice.:rolleyes: It's what I've done all my life, so I'm braced for going into the red on the deal.

I then found I was the owner of a couple of 7T** models. One, resembling a pile of compost, has cleaned up well, and keeps good time, but I've yet to test the stopwatch or alarm. I found this range has a slightly smaller diameter crystal.:ugh:

I purchased a set of nylon? dies and I too used a drill press to take the place of the little watchmaker's rig. Now that it has been 'detailed' (several hours work) I'm much more nervous about damaging it. The inner scales i.e. the tachy or seconds scales are plastic and trapped between the body and the bezel. One can poke the die inside the bezel for lens removal, but so far I've removed that each time.

I also purchased a salesman's watch. It has very little in it once one gets behind the dial and hands. I'm now looking to liberate a movement from a grotty one.

While I find all this very absorbing, I shouldn't be doing it. I have a compelling reason to sell up and not be here, but I find I can get lost in the micro world and forget reality for a while.

Tonight I made my first foray into the inner workings of the 7A38 All functions are okay except for the number one engine powering the 'continuous seconds' and main hands. I'm only down to the PCB layer - amateur night by the above forum's standards, but I'm intrigued by the loss of that signal or drive and am determined to delve further.

I've ordered the M42 adapter and macro odd from HK in the end. Half the price of the big river and no carriage costs. I'll pop some pics on if I get anywhere with my endeavors.

Back to the brown dial. Cleaning inside the heads of those pushers and crowns was difficult, but de-grotting the outside was harder. They are much smaller than the first model's buttons and using a 1" wheel meant there was a danger of sending it into orbit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/walnaze/Technical/Seiko/DSC_1898_zps5efab96e.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/walnaze/media/Technical/Seiko/DSC_1898_zps5efab96e.jpg.html)