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View Full Version : Judge says Racism is ok in Australia


haughtney1
2nd Dec 2013, 05:41
Makes you wonder, doesn't it? (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11165453)

As a New Zealander, with paternal links to Australia, I'm disgusted, saddened, but not surprised.

BEACH KING
2nd Dec 2013, 05:55
Can Australians get concessional student transport in New Zealand?
Does New Zealand offer government funded paid maternity leave?

toffeez
2nd Dec 2013, 06:09
The article makes it clear that this "discrimination" is based on citizenship, not race.

So what's it got to do with racism?

John Hill
2nd Dec 2013, 06:18
I think the judge explained that for you:

"There is direct discrimination based on nationality, and therefore race as defined in the [State Equal Opportunity] Act."

Clare Prop
2nd Dec 2013, 06:21
I don't see the headline saying any such thing?

There is a special category of visa that applied to New Zealanders, just as there are special Trans-Tasman arrangements for recognition of New Zealand pilot licences. New Zealanders are able to get more access to work rights in Australia than people from other countries.

You could argue that it is racial discrimination that English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh people can't get the same right to work etc as New Zealanders do.

Or you could just see this article for what it is. :mad:

haughtney1
2nd Dec 2013, 06:32
Or Clare, you could argue you are merely pinpointing a very small part of a much larger issue between Oz and NZ? i.e. the deliberate policy as explained in the article.
Perhaps you could explain what rights as an Australian you are entitled too when you are in New Zealand.....by default, and how it compares to NZ citizens in Oz?

Clare Prop
2nd Dec 2013, 08:21
I only know what rights I was entitled to in NZ as an English person...none. It wasn't possible to get a work permit there at all, even though at one time the company I worked in the UK for did an exchange with their NZ colleagues and while all the kiwis were able to come to the UK and start work on our jobs (relief milking) due to having enough British ancestry, we were not allowed to go to NZ and do thiers.

I would have much rather lived in NZ than Australia and continued with my career in agriculture but the door was firmly closed to British migrants at that time (mid 80s) and I was sent packing from the NZ High Commission when I enquired about emigrating.

I didn't go to a judge and accuse anyone of discrimination on either occasion, just decided that sadly NZ's visa system sucked and came to live in Australia instead. Have since visited NZ a couple of times and still wish I could have had the right to live and work there.

Life's not fair but I reckon New Zealanders are luckier than most in the places they can go and live and work.

ExXB
2nd Dec 2013, 08:22
The Swiss railroads offer discounts that are not available to Swiss residents. (They also offer discounts to residents that are not available to non-residents)

Discrimination, sue the bar-stewards. ;)

haughtney1
2nd Dec 2013, 09:16
Perhaps a better summation than I can offer Clare...but assuming you are an Australian permanent resident or citizen, you do qualify for all the usual social services after a qualification period..should you wish to emigrate to NZ...as there are no restrictions.

New Zealand citizens arriving in Australia are normally granted a temporary Special Category Visa (SCV) that allows them to stay and study or work indefinitely. Yet it is not a permanent visa. New Zealanders are therefore subject to the same conditions as other foreigners if they wish to apply for permanent residence and Australian citizenship.

New Zealand citizens on the SCV can work and pay taxes in Australia. However, they cannot vote in Australian government elections, access student loans, join the Australian Defence Force, or obtain ongoing work for the Australian government. Above all, these working New Zealanders who arrived since 2001 are not eligible for most social security entitlements, including income support.

The lack of access to student loans creates a catch-22 for the young, as it’s harder to qualify for permanent residence if they lack tertiary-level qualifications. And New Zealanders whose livelihoods have been damaged by the floods in Queensland, for example - or who give birth to a disabled child while in Australia - may find that neither they nor their children are entitled to the same social security support that Australians expect or that they could have received in New Zealand.

Some have felt forced to test the issues in court. Others who have lost jobs argue that refugees and asylum seekers get a better deal in Australia than New Zealand workers do.

Now, the same Australian government fact-sheet that provides information about the SCV also points out that “New Zealand citizens have a high labour-force participation rate (78.2% at July 2012) compared with those born in Australia (68%)”. The unemployment rate of New Zealanders in Australia is slightly lower.

This suggests that Australia is the net economic beneficiary of its intake of New Zealand citizens. Australia is gaining skilled and employable people who contribute to the economy and pay taxes, and yet who pose relatively little fiscal risk to the social security budget. New Zealanders contribute more than they take, and they adapt well to the cultural and economic environment of Australia.

To be fair, Kiwi immigrants are benefiting too from participation in Australia’s stronger, higher-income economy. But, on the ancient principle of “no taxation without representation”, it is unfair that - as taxpayers in Australia - they have no right to vote on the government they pay for, and no political clout to influence Australian social policy.

Both countries have a strong history of social rights. These rights are often justified on the grounds of a “social contract” by which workers accepted higher taxation on the promise that the state would protect them in times of genuine need. Kiwis taxpayers in Australia, however, suffer deliberate social exclusion.

In reply, it could be argued that Kiwi families who fall on hard times can always fly home to get their social security rights over there “where they belong”. And there has been a take-it-or-leave-it attitude from some politicians.

One proposal is to make permanent residence more open for those New Zealanders who have already settled in Australia, and to impose a tougher policy on the numbers of new Kiwi immigrants. For the time being anyway, the economy seems to be taking care of that, stemming the tide of New Zealand citizens moving to Australia.

A joint report of the Productivity Commissions of Australia and New Zealand in 2012 made numerous recommendations for strengthening trans-Tasman economic relations. This included recommending that the Australian government address the issues facing SCV holders living long-term in Australia, such as welfare, voting rights, and pathways to permanent residency.

While most Kiwis are doing well, we hear anecdotal evidence about social problems associated with policies that discriminate against them. These include homelessness and youth unemployment.

Although most New Zealanders are probably happy and productive in Australia, they are regarded as “guest workers”. This discrimination detracts from Australia’s reputation for human rights. The New Zealand diaspora makes Australia a richer country economically, but Australia is failing to make it a fair deal.

I'd also add, that in the context of the past hundred years or so, the judge ruling the way that he has...merely reinforces the view by many that Australia really place little if any value on New Zealand immigrants.
Its all a bit silly really....and is by his own definition racist.

Clare Prop
2nd Dec 2013, 09:23
So...do what myself and many friends from all over the world including NZ have done and apply for citizenship!

ExXB
2nd Dec 2013, 09:26
To be fair, Kiwi immigrants are benefiting too from participation in Australia’s stronger, higher-income economy. But, on the ancient principle of “no taxation without representation”, it is unfair that - as taxpayers in Australia - they have no right to vote on the government they pay for, and no political clout to influence Australian social policy.

Does any country give the vote to non-citizens (taxpayers or not)? Switzerland doesn't.

haughtney1
2nd Dec 2013, 09:37
Then Clare, in the sense of fairness and reciprocity the rules should be applied equally, i.e. access to social services, education, and of course not be deliberately discriminated against.
I would also argue that NZ is a special case..for more reasons than its worth highlighting, but as ever this is an archetypical big brother v little brother argument. I only hope that this is resolved by either Australia modifying its position, or NZ applying the same rules to Oz citizenry as are applied across the Tasman.

haughtney1
2nd Dec 2013, 09:47
Does any country give the vote to non-citizens (taxpayers or not)? Switzerland doesn't.

No I would hope not ExXB, but most countries of the world offer individuals the option to become permanent residents after a time (particularly if they work and pay taxes) which then in most instances eventually leads to an opportunity to become a citizen.

waren9
2nd Dec 2013, 10:28
agree with you haughtney

as a kiwi having spent several years paying higher than average income taxes in oz, its a lot more than bus passes that arent reciprocal

BEACH KING
2nd Dec 2013, 10:40
You still haven't answered the 2 questions I posed to you Haughtney. (I know the answers) The questions were the basis of the article that you linked.
You sound like a Kiwi with a very large chip on one shoulder and a very long bow on the other.
I probably should mention that my wife is a Kiwi :ok: I have ventured over to the far eastern state many times. Lovely place!

haughtney1
2nd Dec 2013, 10:58
Beach...I haven't lived in NZ for a bit over 15 years, nor Oz for that matter, but I assume from your post you are a well balanced Ozzie (chip on both shoulders :E)
BTW, my Mum is a true Blue Ocker, as are a large section of my family.

A quick look at Google says yes to Bus fares in AKL..dunno about anywhere else, but I'd assume yes.

All secondary students attending high school / college within the Auckland region must hold and present their AT Student ID Card to the operator to ensure they receive the child discount on public transport

As for paid maternity..

Straight off the website

What is paid parental leave?

Paid parental leave is a government-funded entitlement paid to eligible working mothers and adoptive parents when they take parental leave from their job(s) to care for their newborn or adopted child (under the age of six). These payments go towards the loss of income that working mothers and adoptive parents experience when they take parental leave from work to care for a new baby or adopted child.

Paid parental leave payments equal your normal pay (before tax) if you're an employee, or your average weekly earnings if you're self-employed, up to a current maximum of $488.17 a week before tax. If you're self-employed and make a loss or earn less than the minimum wage, for at least 10 hours work a week, the payment is $137.50 each week before tax (this is equivalent to 10 hours each week at the current minimum wage rate).

You can receive paid parental leave for a maximum of 14 weeks. You can transfer your paid parental leave to your spouse or partner, as long as they also qualify for paid parental leave from their employer or self-employment.

Inland Revenue will pay parental leave payments directly into your bank account each fortnight. The payments will be treated as income, just like your normal salary and wages or self-employed income. Paid parental leave payments have tax and student loan deductions taken out (at whatever rate applies to you). It will not have earners' levy deducted from it.

And yes an Australian can qualify..as below


New Zealand citizenship for Australians
Citizenship by Grant
A minimum of five years residence in New Zealand is required and certain criteria must be met, including satisfactory character and language references, to become a New Zealand citizen by grant.

Voting and elections for Australians in New Zealand
New Zealand citizens or permanent residents (including Australians) with one years residency who are 18 years and over are eligible to register on the electoral roll and vote in elections. New Zealand has had a proportional voting system called Mixed Member Proportional (MMP) since 1996.


Education for Australians in New Zealand
Australian citizens and permanent residents are classified as domestic students in New Zealand and do not require student visas.

The Department of Work and Income provides subsidies to low income families for early childhood education and before/after school and holiday programmes.

At tertiary institutions, Australians pay local fees, but are only eligible for tertiary student allowances after two years residence. They are able to apply for tertiary student loans.

toffeez
2nd Dec 2013, 11:10
In the UK, British and Commonwealth citizens legally resident are able to vote.

So that includes Australians, Indians, New Zealanders, Pakistanis etc etc.

Capetonian
2nd Dec 2013, 11:14
If I go to certain countries, I have to get a visa. Citizens of other countries may not need a visa.

Does this entitle me to play the race/discrimination card if I turn up at the border and am refused entry because I don't have a visa?

http://pumabydesign001.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/lunatic-progressives-losing-debate-use-race-card.jpg?w=390&h;=297

waren9
2nd Dec 2013, 11:25
i think the ops original point may have been more about reciprocity. or the lack of it.

Fliegenmong
2nd Dec 2013, 11:27
"While most Kiwis are doing well, we hear anecdotal evidence about social problems associated with policies that discriminate against them. These include homelessness and youth unemployment.

Although most New Zealanders are probably happy and productive in Australia, they are regarded as “guest workers”. This discrimination detracts from Australia’s reputation for human rights. The New Zealand diaspora makes Australia a richer country economically, but Australia is failing to make it a fair deal."

Stunned really, stunned, from what I observe around these parts it goes something like this....

Kiwi Ghettos springing up in the outer 'burbs...islanders maybe not pure Maori, but identifying as such

Cars with silverfern car stickers on the rear windscreen

QLD Funded state schools being overun with kiwi/Maori gangs

Open warfare by Kiwis against native Australians

Kiwis with the audacity to drive around with car stickers that depict the tail of a Kangaroo as a silverfern, and then to further 'enhance' their transports with 'QueeNZlander' stickers across their rear window.....I say to you as I do all the Victorians who chose to live here by their own free will, whilst simultaneously extolling how better it is back home....don't let the door hit you on the way out!!

...Regrettably, just like islamic Jihadists, you'll refuse to integrate....indeed right now you insist on specialist treatment from your host government!

Christ only knows what I could expect from NZ if I moved there and drove about with a 'skippy' on my back window!....a house brick at the very least I would expect! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

haughtney1
2nd Dec 2013, 11:29
Wow Cape, what a ignorant remark...even for you.

Fliegenmong
2nd Dec 2013, 11:29
Just saw your reply Cape....thank you!

haughtney1
2nd Dec 2013, 11:40
Fliegen, just out of interest, explain to me the difference between what you are saying, and say the greek gangs in Melbourne, or the Lebanese gangs in Sydney?
You are also drawing a LOOOOOOONG bow to compare islamic Jihadists (death to the infidel) with Maori gangs (who BTW are a tiny minority), are you now going to round up the bike gang members as well? or perhaps you are using the most visible as a convenient scapegoat (as is common in Oz politics).
Maybe you could dust off Pauline Hansen?
While you are at it, you had better banish half the QLD Police force who are either Poms or Kiwis.
If you drove around with a Roo on your car in NZ, most people wouldn't even notice.

Fliegenmong
2nd Dec 2013, 12:11
"Fliegen, just out of interest, explain to me the difference between what you are saying, and say the greek gangs in Melbourne, or the Lebanese gangs in Sydney?"

There is no difference to explain Haughtney1.............that is the point.....:rolleyes:

Yes agree a long bow to draw, and it was done for effect, but the similarity remains....."I'm a Lebanese Australian"..."I'm Syrian Australian..'I'm a Kiwi Australian.....it's always the same....everyone identifies as being something other than Australian, yet insisting they receive Oz benefits by tacking on 'Australian' after their first national identity......so come here one and all, but stop putting stickers of the 'homeland' on your cars....and embrace what you came here to live for......otherwise....if you need to insist that you are a Hindu Australian , or an Islamic Australian or a Sri Lankan Australian, or a Kiwi Australian.......fuggoff!!! And to that end I have no doubt the support of Tony Abbot and everyone down through pprune who has felt the need to question the recently 'turfed' Oz gummints.......

I expect to hear from more than a few TA apologists here backing me up!

cattletruck
2nd Dec 2013, 12:24
I'm a FNQ Australian originally :ouch:

...and those funny Taswegiens worry me.

haughtney1
2nd Dec 2013, 12:41
Flieg, on the general point regarding integration, I agree....in point of fact it should be a requirement for immigrants to integrate (learn the language, play a sport, drink the beer etc etc) but then you can't reasonably expect people to change their life-time of habits and traditions overnight, its neither realistic or practical, it never was and never will be thus.
With respect to "be Australian or Fugg off" I suspect I have a longer Oz heritage than you do, on my Mums side...and we are all immigrants to some extent, no one is exclusively one way or another. To suggest otherwise sounds very much like an angry rant rather than a grip on reality.
Australia WAS built and colonized by immigrants, it success is thanks to those early individuals who only a few generations ago travelled from lands far away to make their new lives....comments such as yours do no credit to those who came before you who may have been 10 pound Poms, or Dutch Aussies, German Aussies etc etc.
The issue is simple, Australia treats Kiwi's under this special arrangement with less respect and dignity than they would an Iranian asylum seeker who runs around at Christmas Island, its done at lots of different levels in Australia. This treatment is not reciprocated in NZ, are Ozzies are treated by officialdom with the respect that you would expect of two close neighbors.
If you can't see that for what it is....then theres no point debating the issue with you.

Oh yeah...and you have a Judge in the state judiciary saying its ok too be (by his own definition) racist, you're ok with that?

500N
2nd Dec 2013, 13:10
And you want to become the 8th State of Oz :O ;)


"The issue is simple, Australia treats Kiwi's under this special arrangement with less respect and dignity than they would an Iranian asylum seeker who runs around at Christmas Island,"

So are Aussies so get in the queue !

BenThere
2nd Dec 2013, 16:27
Seems to be a common trait among Western democracies that they welcome and take every opportunity to make life easy for indigent welfare seekers, while at the same time they make life more challenging and costly for those who work and pay the taxes required to fund it all.

How did we come to this point? What can we do to right our ships?

vee-tail-1
2nd Dec 2013, 17:50
This is sad to the point of being sick making :yuk:
On a walkabout in Sydney or any other Oz city, like most Europeans I couldn't tell who was from NZ or Oz. But I sure as hell can tell who is a Muslim.
Why fight among yourselves when your government lets in those who would destroy what you have?

500N
2nd Dec 2013, 18:20
vee tail

You can tell a Kiwi, they raise the end of the sentence to make it sound
like a Question or they put "hey ?" on the end at a slightly higher pitch,
again making it sound like a question !

Pappa Smurf
2nd Dec 2013, 22:03
Originally,Aust and NZ were like the one country as in refering to past wars as Anzacs.
I went mining in the West in the 70,s and heaps of Kiwis,while on the East Coast ,Bondi was the dole capital for Kiwis.
I know plenty of Kiwis who have taken citizenship,and lots that have earned the big bucks and returned home.
I can see why these new rules apply though after living in London once and seeing all the Europeans coming over for free dental etc.
Have a great holiday,get up the duff,come to Aust,get a job,then get maternity leave with pay,then go home.
Its the past that has prompted it,but that's life.
Kiwis,Poms,Irish,Greeks,Italians etc-----that was Aust. once,and a bloody good country it was.
You have to be from another country now to get all the benefits.

BEACH KING
2nd Dec 2013, 22:26
Beach...I haven't lived in NZ for a bit over 15 years, nor Oz for that matter, but I assume from your post you are a well balanced Ozzie

Thanks for that Haughtney :ok:
I told you I knew the answer.
The problem you have with the article as I see it, is the reciprocity (or lack there of)?
I see it this way. The Judge is simply upholding the law of the land. Kiwi (or any other) visitors aint gonna change that. If the Kiwi students feel so humiliated and racial vilified that they can't get concessional Oz public transport travel...why don't they return to NZ and enjoy the benefits there. Do they have paid maternity leave and Concessional student travel in PNG? It's not that much further up the road.

reynoldsno1
3rd Dec 2013, 01:16
the door was firmly closed to British migrants at that time
No, it wasn't ...:ok:
I have no doubt the support of Tony Abbot
... and his Kiwi wife as well :ok:
The Judge is simply upholding the law of the land
... and daughter is well aware of that in WA, where she's doing fine - with her Ocker boyfriend :ok:

You can always tell an Aussie - but not a lot ...:p

500N
3rd Dec 2013, 02:25
I wonder why that was ?

The "great exodus" had already begun by then ;)

Saltie
3rd Dec 2013, 03:14
Seems to be a common trait among Western democracies that they welcome and take every opportunity to make life easy for indigent welfare seekers, while at the same time they make life more challenging and costly for those who work and pay the taxes required to fund it all.

How did we come to this point? What can we do to right our ships? Because there are many - and I mean MANY - Australians, from so called human rights lawyers to social workers to public servants who live a very comfortable life riding the gravy train that is the social welfare INDUSTRY. The same applies to the Aboriginal INDUSTRY.

The last thing these many parasites ever want to see is an end to "discryminayshun" in its many, always burgenoing (in their creative minds) forms. What else would we do with all the Arts and Environmental Studies graduates from our Leftie universities?

500N
3rd Dec 2013, 04:08
To think I was an ARTS graduate of one those Leftie university's !!! :O

parabellum
3rd Dec 2013, 04:28
NZ stopped the retiree visa too, a long time before Australia did, (2006).

bosnich71
3rd Dec 2013, 04:59
Haughty ... careful !
If you are going to waft on about racism you should be careful about the use of the "POM" word. Just because the Australian public use ad nausea doesn't mean that it is acceptable to all English persons. :)

haughtney1
3rd Dec 2013, 05:09
Bos, given that my wife is a pom (and I'm a Naturalized Pom)...this is for you Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom, Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom, Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,Pom,:E:ok:

cattletruck
3rd Dec 2013, 05:16
Should that be "Pohm"? :ouch:

Seaeagle109
3rd Dec 2013, 06:19
I reckon it's absolutely acceptable to discriminate in every way against Kiwis.

They never fully integrate into Australian culture and steadfastly refuse to commit their full allegiance to Australia, even if they do take out Australian citizenship, and have lived here all of their life. My Pommy GrandDad, ditched any, and all, allegiance to Pomgolia the minute he stepped off the boat in 1902.

I have never, ever seen any one of the bast*rds, who has even the remotest connection with our Eastern Islands, barrack for the Wallabies, even when the Wallabies are playing the Poms, FFS. :ugh::ugh::ugh: Where's the ANZAC spirit of mateship and watching each other's back?

Until that changes and they give unswerving allegiance to our boys in Gold and renounce the black satans, then deny them everything I say!




Don't worry Bros, if you can't afford a bus ticket, you can always hitch a ride with most of us, hey Cuz.:ok:

500N
3rd Dec 2013, 06:32
Seaeagle

The standard response from Kiwis is "I support NZ and anyone playing Australia"

Some even use it as a tag line on forums under any posts !

bosnich71
3rd Dec 2013, 06:39
Haughtney ..... did I say that I objected? No I didn't so don't be a Plonker.

Solid Rust Twotter
3rd Dec 2013, 07:16
I support NZ and anyone playing Australia


Come on! This is rugby, not kissyball. Team loyalty goes down to the bone. Ask the Saffers infesting WA.

Captain Sand Dune
3rd Dec 2013, 07:47
Haughtny1
So you haven’t lived in Australian or New Zealand for over 15 years, but you still call yourself a Kiwi. Fair enough, but it sounds like you’re really p*ssed off about a judgement made in a country in which you haven’t resided for some time now. Why is that? Why would you bother?
I don’t give a flying toss what reciprocal rights Australians may or may not receive in New Zealand. You’re sounding like the ever increasing numbers of recent immigrants to this country with a well developed sense of self entitlement.
Well please ensure you tell all your Kiwi bros and everyone else wherever it is you now reside what a bunch of redneck racists us Australians are. Please.

Worrals in the wilds
3rd Dec 2013, 07:53
Haughtney, if your mum is an Australian citizen then you're eligible for dual citizenship without too many dramas. A dual citizen gets all the privileges you're concerned about, so I'll take a guess (just a guess) that you're raising these concerns on behalf of someone else.

The 'equal rights' benefits for Kiwis were knocked off a few years ago (by the Howard government IIRC) due to concerns about numbers of NZ citizens claiming welfare while residing in Australia. Some of those NZ citizens were fairly new Kiwis, having originally come from other Pacific nations. NZ citizenship is arguably easier to get than Australian citizenship, and it was felt (rightly or wrongly) that people were using it as a back door to Australia and full benefits here.

This is not something I agreed with, particularly wrt access to education, because it's a simmering issue among young non-citizen residents of Australia who are left without the same opportunity to succeed as their Aussie classmates. I believe that it creates an underclass of quasi-residents who live here, consider 'here' their home but don't have the same entitlements, and that isn't good for the country. I would like to see a fast-track option for Australian citizenship for people in this bracket, where if they've lived here since their childhood, haven't :mad:ed up and look like being good members of the community then we offer them the chance to sign up.

However, much as I disagreed with the change to the legislation, it was never about racism. A Kiwi who becomes an Australian citizen is a citizen, same as a Viet, Iraqi or a member of any other 'race' (flawed concept) who legally becomes an Aussie. Racism is discrimination against a person because of their 'race', not their nationality.

As for the unequal level of benefits; there is nothing to stop New Zealand bringing their legislation into line with Australia, so that Aussies in NZ get the same limited benefits as Kiwis do in Australia. That would equalise the relationship without further debate.

As for voting rights, I would be deeply uncomfortable with non-citizens being able to vote in Australia. That is for citizens.

Given that we are close, the border is fairly fluid, we share much history (particularly the ANZAC tradition) and NZ almost became a part of the Commonwealth I think we all often forget that we are two separate sovereign nations. However, that's the case. New Zealanders are not autmatically Australians and Australians are not automatically New Zealanders. I wouldn't arrive in New Zealand and expect them to automatically welcome me as a fellow countryman along with whatever entitlements that brought.

Andu
3rd Dec 2013, 09:04
Well said Worrals.

Fliegenmong
3rd Dec 2013, 10:02
I'm getting heartily sick of typing out replies, only to come back and hit send to be loggged out!! :sad::ugh::ugh::ugh:

What Worrals said..kinda.....but I'm not going to tap it all out on a keyboard again just to have it wiped!!! :ugh::ugh:

haughtney1
3rd Dec 2013, 10:18
Worrals, sage words as ever, and you will find no substantial disagreement here.
The whole point of this thread however was never about the things that are right with the relationship between NZ and Oz, but rather what could/can be made better, and I'll come back to the initial point relating to the article, the judge himself has defined his decision as racist, but justified racism on the basis of nationality (and his attitude IS indicative and not isolated...as Flieg has so aptly shown with his comments).
I have no problem with a sovereign nation choosing its own path, within the bounds of natural justice and fairness, and in this case Australia is free to do as she chooses.
The position that New Zealand takes is IMHO far more generous in intent as well as execution, and that is perhaps what sticks in the throat of many NZer's.
The reality is that the SCV does create an underclass of "guest workers" who are disadvantaged on the basis of their nationality and circumstances.
For me personally, I think its shameful of Australia to act this way, and it casts the decision makers in a poor light.
Disagree with me if you must, but you can't dispute the facts nor can you argue the present outcomes.

I should add, same probs here Fleig....kept getting booted off.