icao to jaa conversions

[edward robinson]

i am looking to convert my canadian cpl multi ifr to a jaa equivalent. i understand that there are no minimum training requirements but sufficient training to pass the ir and cpl flight tests. also 350 hrs of atpl ground school. is this all?..... i am beginning to feel i have missed out on something... all that talk of things changing in 2002 and people talking of not being able to convert icao licences? what is happening in 2002? i spent 11,000 quid on a canadian cpl multi ir and am working as a flight instructor. if i convert i estimate about 11-13,000 quid (inc. mcc) and i end up with a jaa frozen atpl ir etc. my total estimates appear to be 22-24000 am i on the numbers here or have i missed something big time? has anyone else tried to conversion and if so which fto's have a good system. any comments or advice greatly appreciated....though break it to me gently....please

[Noggin]

One omission, you will have to do an approved 55 hour course of flying training for the JAA IR. (You get 5 hours credit for an ICAO CPL) so 50 hours. Thats about £9K.

[EggBeta]

I'm in the same situation, was working on my FAA Cpl ME IR so that when I got back to the UK I could complete the JAA ground exams, then demonstrate flying capability, then take the Cpl IR JAA practical exam. No such luck anymore, they require a full IR Cpl training course regardless of current hours or licenses. I was told that with MCC/CRP this amounts to the tidy sum of 23000 british pounds.
I am starting the ground school hopefully in April.
Just my luck, spend a ton of cash in the US, then have to retrain in the UK all over again!

[TooHotToFly]

Edward - what's happening in June 2002 is that the CAA will not issue anymore UK licences - they will all have to be JAR licences. That won't be a problem for you though.

[edward robinson]

thanks too hot... though i am a little foggy on it all i understand that i need a jaa licence.... with that in mind.... other comments on the full ir course....i received a letter today from 4forces . they said that mandatory approved training is required.... but they said that fto's may allow credit for previous foreign training thereby reducing the total hrs needed to fly on course. so i am awaiting further confirmation from them but they do state that it is usual for the conversion to require 10 -25 hrs in sim and flight. so am i to assme that they are right, as are you, and that my canadian ir hrs may be used to reduce the 55 hrs but still complete the mandatory approved training.
your mention of 9000 had me rocking quietly in a corner, but this may be a way out perhaps??

[EggBeta]

Edward,
can you keep me updated as you find more info. [email protected].
I must say that I was working away under the premise that the CAA would look at ones experience and then decide on the number of hours transition training they feel would be appropriate prior to the practical exam.
Oxford have told me that there are candidates with 4000 hrs having to go thru the full approved course!

[Canadian]

I too am training in Canada for a CPL/IR with the intention of returning to England to "convert", or I was until a few weeks ago! Then the JAA decided to change the rules without warning. I had done about 10-15 hours of the Canadian IR course, when I heard that there is no way to "convert" my Canadian IR to a JAA IR. SO I have halted my IR training until I return to the UK, as there is no point in doing it here in Canada.

I spoke to the CAA over the phone and they confirmed that as from Feb 1st, holders of ICAO Instrument ratings must complete the FULL JAA IR course(55 hours - 5 hour reduction if you have a CPL) if they wish to obtain a JAA licence. There is no reduction in training time unless you have a few hundred hours (500?) of multi-crew time.

As I said before, I have halted my IR training and am just doing some hour building on a twin instead.

I just hope they don't change the rules for the CPL module as well. If you read some of the other posts in this forum, I think that this will confirm my point.

Hope everything goes well, I will be joining you in the bank asking for a huge loan to cover the extra costs!!!!!!!

[RichT]

If you have over 600 hours you can go the CAA route ie no min hours for the IR. Once the license is issued you can do a straight swap for a jaa license.

[edward robinson]

rich t: isn't the conversion to caa then to jar impossible? i understand that now the rulings state that yes the full 55 hrs for the ir must be done....... (-5 hrs for cpl). well thats going to be a value laden 50 hrs. those in canada you maybe a ble to do some of this with pacific flying club in boundary bay at i hope canadian prices (partnership of ATF coventry) this may cut costs as you could i suppose sit in the sim for the max time. but its definitely a blow to all those who thought they could save a buck. the only other way around it maybe to get to atpl level and then perhaps different conversion criteria exist....thats right it will be changed just as you start though!!!! any other ideas anyone i have a feeling this has really screwed alot of people esp. those in conversion courses now.
well i'm just wrapping this semtex neatly... anyone have the jaa address?

[edward robinson]

those of you in the vancouver area.... pacific flying club in boundary bay is starting a jaa approved course in november. this means that of your 50 hrs...all but 5 ish can be done in canada at good old canadian prices... this represents a considerable saving on doing it all in the uk at an arm and a leg per hour. the course will use the material from atlantic flight training, but the resources of pfc. they cant give out much info on the course as yet but at least i now know i dont have to pay 10000 quid to do it!!!

[Jetgate]

Edward and others who are in Canada or thinking of coming to Canada......

I am a Brit who is Instructing in Vancouver and also working on my Canadian IR. Yes the rules have changed.... surprise surprise.... apparently the Germans and the French elements of JAA cooked this one.....!!

However if you are an ICAO ATPL holder with 3000TT, 500MC and xxx hrs on aircraft over 30tns then the old rules still apply. Thank goodness they are letting the senior guys off with some credit!! All I can say is that It still looks like a Superiority complex or a trade embargo.

If you have the dosh then a Canadian IR for apprx $8000 could still save you money in the long run and could also help you get a job back in Blighty. How? well the JAA ride won't be double dutch as you have IR experience and your twin time will be more than the next fellas if he only has a JAA IR. The above info was given to me by a senior UK Ops hiring person and I'm just sharing them with you.

Ed and any other Brits who are in Canada, drop me a line and maybe we could all bang heads together and find a good deal for the conversion.

D.J.

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