US DOD to award CSAR contract

[meanttobe]

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=3a02530e60440bee5313a8c4ab0afd49&_cview=0


If they get the money approved !

[tottigol]

Perhaps they can convert the unsold Cyclones and save money.

[meanttobe]

The Sikorsky people will be happy today.

U.S. Senator announces Combat Search and Rescue Helicopter program will receive $333.5 million in appropriations bill | Vertical Magazine - The Pulse of the Helicopter Industry (http://www.verticalmag.com/news/article/U.S.-Senator-announces-Combat-Search-and-Rescue-Helicopter-p#.Utbfl9JdUp0)

[dangermouse]

to replace the current in service aircraft with.....



the same aircraft

(due to such a restrictive requirement nobody else even bothered to enter the supposed fair and open 'competition')

DM

[meanttobe]

This one has certainly made a joke of the competitive tender process. The Re run of the presidential helicopter replacement contract is not far behind.
The power of the lobbiest wins again perhaps or is it the best off the shelf solution for the job.

[dangermouse]

as AWH have declared that they won't bid as it will be uneconomic to do so due to the watered down requirements and cost limits on the programme

never mind, the POTUS will have to settle for 2nd best

DM

[grumpytroll]

Dear Dangermouse,

A matter of opinion of course. Sikorsky products have, all in all, been mighty awesome machines for our military and others for a lot of years now.

Lets see, the USAF needs new helicopters. The US economy is in recession. Jobs would help. How about if we buy the replacements from a company in the united states and keep the money flowing here, in our economy. Or, we could take the money from our citizens, spend it in another country and help their citizens and and tell our folks to eat cake.

As to the "fair" part of the discussion, like the Indian contract recently cancelled or the ORNGE deal in Canada et al. By the way, I have seen hundreds of Eurocopter's, in America. This one little American company alone called Air Methods has more Eurocopters than most countries have total helicopters. (nearly 400) We do our part for everyone when we can. After personally flying the EC-145 and talking to US Army pilots who fly them, we could have done waaaay better somewhere else. But we didn't. And the Shorts airplanes we bought for the military, woo hoo baby, what a performer. The US recently cancelled a huge contract to buy Russian helicopters for the Afghan military. Yeah, that deal pissed people off. Our tax dollars spent to buy helicopters made in a foreign land so people in another foreign land can have helicopters to fly around in. Say what you want about the politics of it all, but lets at least spend our citizens tax dollars in our own country once in a while. You can argue all you want, but we know how to build helicopters here in the bad old USA. Been doing it a long time, built some pretty good ones.

Yes, its all a crazy game but I like to keep the tokens from the game in my neighbors hands. Nothing personal, call me names if you like.

Apparently you believe that something from AWH is the best of the best of the best. Frankly I don't even want to hear why you think so. Its like arguing politics or religion. There is really no point in you telling me or me telling you why the scissor link assembly retaining nut on the titanium plated thingamawonger is better on one than it is on the other. They all fly, they all do a good job and they all have their issues. Nones been perfect yet. I like it when my countrymen have jobs and our economy is strong and then I like it when everyone else in the world has a strong economy. That is the only reason I need to justify liking american helicopters first. If that is really why you like AWH helicopters first, I understand.

By the way, to prove I am not a complete snob, while I am currently a Sikorsky pilot, I really enjoyed the AS350 B3+, (a great machine) and the BK117B2 (an incredible performer and perfect EMS platform). I also have 4000 hours split evenly between the Canadair Regional Jet and the Saab 340. Both excellent aircraft. (although you might be mad to hear that they both have GE engines)( Saab 340 and Sikorsky UH-60 share the same engine oddly enough)

So, we buy american helicopters for the service and support of american military men and women. I like the idea.

Cheeers

[tottigol]

Grumpy, just wondering what US made airframe are you referring to when you mention:
"After personally flying the EC-145 and talking to US Army pilots who fly them, we could have done waaaay better somewhere else"..

Perhaps the single engine VFR only Bell 210?
The mini-legged-dutch-rolling-hunting MD-900?
Or the "It only takes a new paint job" Bell 412?

As far as other "beleaguered" contracts, I would leave the Canadians both civilians or military out of it, they have proven time and again to be incapable of managing ANY aircraft acquisition process in the last 15 years (looking forward to the next debacle for the Canadian Coast Guard Helicopters procurement).

The only thing you can say about ORNGE, they replaced some old POC S-76As with AW-139s.

Believe me, sometimes the neighbors' grass IS A LOT greener.
That said, when it comes to military procurement, every sovereign country ought to be able to buy the best aircraft the money can buy for the pilots that shall have to fly them, without any political interference of any kind.

There are going to be surprises in the future...

[dmanton300]

So, we buy american helicopters for the service and support of american military men and women. I like the idea.

Cheeers
Which is all well and fine. I get that, I really do. It's not logical or necessarily in the best interests of those men and women, but I understand the emotion driven nuances of such a belief.

Just don't pretend it was a genuine competitive tender when it was anything but.

And just out of interest, when the -101 lost the original (real) competition to the MH-47, the prevailing attitude I saw around it from people connected with the -101 was "fair enough - the Chinook will do them proud, and is more than capable". A fair competition lost fair and square.

[dangermouse]

the poster beat me to it

Grumpies post is a very eloquent one that is way better than most of them on this site, and I agree that keeping your own money in your own country is a good idea (we just don't do that very well in the UK with examples like the Puma Mk2 project....). I am not slagging off US products although in many cases they are not the best that you can buy.

The issue that many non americans have with the US procurement policy is that although it is touted as an open competition, there have been numerous occasions (both VXX and CSAR phase 2s for instance) where the winner is already decided by the way the RFP is written. It is very telling that NO ONE (even US firms) apart from Sikorsky even bothered bidding for those contracts

Just be honest about it, if the product you want is a Blackhawk, just say so and buy it without any pretence of a competition.

I bet you won't find a non Eurocopter product operating in the French Armed services, we all accept that that is their procurement policy, there is no point in AW or Bell etc bidding in that country cos the answer will be NON.

DM

[SASless]

never mind, the POTUS will have to settle for 2nd best

Given the quality and character of the current occupant of the People's House.... I would think an R-44 would be appropriate....except it would be an insult to Mr. Robinson.




Sometimes you have to remember for National Defense reasons a government will buy things just to keep the production capability in existence as a way of retaining strategic manufacturing ability.

The best example of that is how the Navy spreads its Ship Building Contracts around to keep as many Ship Yards going as possible.

This might be just one of those deals or a reaction to the last big debacle on the Prez's new ride.

Why the Prez cannot ride in a fancy assed Blackhawk and call it good defeats me.