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View Full Version : Midway to where ?


peterpallet
23rd Nov 2013, 14:00
Worth looking at ?

MIDWAY : This film should be seen by the entire world ! - YouTube (http://youtu.be/MN8JYhByVYg)

Cacophonix
23rd Nov 2013, 14:13
Humanity and its detritus is a scourge upon the face of the earth... we are a threat to this planet...

The Pacific gyre and its pile of plastic etc. grows every year... the ocean is sick and we have made it so.

Caco

G-CPTN
23rd Nov 2013, 14:17
Would it be possible to scoop up the floating detritus and shred it and recycle it?

Maybe it would need a converted supertanker to contain it?

Cacophonix
23rd Nov 2013, 14:21
The North Pacific Gyre: 100 Million Tons of Garbage and Growing (http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/waste-and-recycling/news-north-pacific-gyre-100-million-tons-garbage-and-growing)

Caco

fleigle
23rd Nov 2013, 14:46
Theres bound to be some good stuff in there, stands to reason. All we need is some rich barsteward to mount an expedition.
f

Loose rivets
23rd Nov 2013, 15:07
and it is at least twice the size of Texas.


And I've heard a lot more than that. Much of it is very fine and difficult to gather, and just steaming up and down collecting it would pollute the planet significantly. There has to be a better way.

First, we need to stop putting in the oceans.

lomapaseo
23rd Nov 2013, 16:47
Well at least the birds are bio-degradeable.

I may have missed the message

are the deaths faster than the population is replacing them?

Everything has to die, from what cause in the animal world is not nearly as important as the problems of starvation among humans.

Impressive music if that was the message.

Um... lifting...
23rd Nov 2013, 17:40
The gyre is stunning in size and scope.

It's largely composed of drift nets and other neutrally buoyant detritus. Nylon and its like doesn't decompose at any appreciable rate, and the gyre doesn't really go anywhere.

Back in the bad old days, nets were made of hemp, jute, or some other natural fibre, and were buoyed by glass balls. When the nets were lost (as they tend to be eventually) they ultimately degraded and fell apart. Glass balls were too large for animals to ingest, and often washed up on beaches where a cottage industry developed to scrape them clean of barnacles and sell them to the tourists or reuse them.

Of course, the nets of 50+ years ago were nothing like the size of the synthetic behemoths we're raking the seas with these days. And for most efficient stripping of ocean resources, that means better fishing through chemistry.

Plastic. It's convenient as all get out, but it doesn't go away. Nasty stuff.

mikedreamer787
23rd Nov 2013, 18:16
Well that's 4 minutes of my life I won't get back.

And here was me thinking this thread was about
some newly discovered item (perhaps heroism)
of the June 1942 naval battle, before I opened it.

Compare the volume of 100 million tons of trash
to the volume of the entire Pacific Ocean FFS. :ugh:

Just a propaganda stunt by the nature freaks akin
to its sister institution 'climate change.' :hmm:

500N
23rd Nov 2013, 18:36
Mike

Was thinking the same thing on all points.

Birds have been dying eating man made things that they shouldn't
for ever and a day. You will never get rid of all the crap in the ocean.

A far better push by the "Greenies" would be to try to get manufacturers
to make Plastics that bio degrade after a period in the sun or sun / water.
That especially applies to plastic bottle tops and bags.

Good change can happen and does have an effect but emotional
pulling if the heart string videos are just that, people watch them
and that's about it.

An example - for many years Swans in the UK were dying because
of fishing line and fishing lead weights. This was directly affecting
numbers. A push was made to get fisherman to pick up line, hooks
and use other than lead weights (or at least try to retrieve them).
The result was less swans died.

Fliegenmong
23rd Nov 2013, 21:07
An example - for many years Swans in the UK were dying because
of fishing line and fishing lead weights. This was directly affecting
numbers. A push was made to get fisherman to pick up line, hooks
and use other than lead weights (or at least try to retrieve them).
The result was less swans died.

How was this push in the UK made?:confused:

Is the you tube clip not a push to stop people carelessly discarding plastic??

Don' t get me wrong, I'm as far removed from the greenies as you'll get, but I'm regularly down at a once pristine beach picking up rubbish discarded by bogans (mostly) from the southern states:E....I don't have to be a greenie to find McDonalds drink cups and straws and tins of bourbon/coke and plastic bags strewn across a beach to be distasteful in the extreme:yuk:

BenThere
23rd Nov 2013, 21:14
So how is it we are doing the right thing building thousands of windmills that are chipping away at our eagles and bats?

G-CPTN
23rd Nov 2013, 21:23
When we moved to Denmark in the 1980s, 'cans' containing drinks were nowhere to be found as their sale was prohibited (http://www.edie.net/news/0/Denmark-lifts-ban-on-one-use-only-drinks-cans/5084/).

Instead, all beverages were sold in glass bottles which were sold with a deposit which was redeemable when the empty bottle was returned - which kept youngsters busy collecting empties for pocket money so there was no litter (from drinks) - apart from the metal crown caps which were everywhere where people gathered for leisure activity.

500N
23rd Nov 2013, 21:37
Flieg

Re how did it occur, news articles in papers, getting the word out through the organisations (fishing), much like the "catch and release" message of fishing
has been pushed in the last few years.


Re this video, "shocking" footage to most but I am afraid IMHO
to get a message across you need to be blunt and up front.

Showing footage like this with "Midway, a love story from the middle of the
Pacific" at the end is not what I would have put. Also, as someone else has pointed out, showing millions of other birds of the same species doesn't
exactly make them look endangered.

And as G-CPTN said, glass bottles and / or a recycling scheme.
We have a recycling scheme in two states in Aus. The litter difference
is astounding.

And BenThere has a good point as well. For years they tried to ban
DDT use due to it's effects on the food chain and specifically on
Raptors in the UK (Eagles, Peregrines) and one of the causes of "thin"
egg shells which caused no young. Now we put up Wind Mills that kill
but this is deemed acceptable by the Greenies ???

A fair amount of Greenie publicity is to generate $$$$$ into bank accounts
by tugging heart strings / the feel good factor, not to solve the issue used
in the publicity.

500N
23rd Nov 2013, 21:40
Fliegs

Bogans are attracted to Bogans ;) :O

No, agree with you. We have regularly caught birds (waders etc and see seagulls) that have plastic wrapped around legs etc. That would be a fraction of them as
most would die.

Cacophonix
23rd Nov 2013, 23:56
Well at least the birds are bio-degradeable.

I may have missed the message

are the deaths faster than the population is replacing them?

Everything has to die, from what cause in the animal world is not nearly as important as the problems of starvation among humans.

Impressive music if that was the message.


One of the sillier posts from an intelligent man whose message I normally respect.

Caco

Cacophonix
24th Nov 2013, 00:03
One of the sillier posts from an intelligent man whose message I normally respect.



Think about it man, we aren't somehow separate from the natural world that feeds us even if you think it is so...

Come on... you can do better than that.

Caco

Try reading about the chemical trail of some polymers and the effects that they have on the endocrine systems of mammals like you, human!

Fliegenmong
24th Nov 2013, 00:08
Had no idea Eagles and bats were sliced and diced in windmills! Thought Eagles to be too smart and bats using sonar would steer clear!

Would love to have a small one in the corner of the backyard to avoid paying the power company, but this being Australia nanny state there'd be some obscure law or another prohibiting this, thus ensuring that we're beholden to ever increasing power costs. Wouldn't be much different to those old outback windmills you see......

Cacophonix
24th Nov 2013, 00:15
Wouldn't be much different to those old outback windmills you see......

Smaller sails but they can be deadly... a friend of mine was killed by one (freak accident but it is freak until it happens to you).

Very typical of life in the Karoo in SA...

The sound of the pump an evocative sound that reminds us that water should be pumped and be clean...

http://images02.olx.co.za/ui/4/20/15/1354450465_461511515_1-Pictures-of--Karoo-wind-pump-sunset-Oil-on-Canvas-by-Wilna-Venter.jpg


Caco

500N
24th Nov 2013, 00:18
Fliegs

The Windmill blades move in a plane that the birds are not used to,
as in up and down. They see a gap, just like they would in a gap in
the trees and fly through it, not expecting to be clonked on the head
by something from above !!!


I'd love a Windmill in my garden !

Fliegenmong
24th Nov 2013, 00:32
Oh I see 500....I had no idea!! Surely it can't happen all that often though?!?!

500N
24th Nov 2013, 01:14
More than they care to admit !!! (The Greenies that is !!!)

You know the Pylons with the Electricty wires ?
They are a great killer of Swans (and probably other things) in the UK.
They just don't see them.

Cacophonix
24th Nov 2013, 01:18
You know the Pylons with the Electricty wires ?



Kills swans and pilots as well...

Have spent part of this week hugging bits of my apple tree blown down in the storm here a couple of weeks ago. Tree is looking better and I am drinking cider. Those greenies (as you call them) might be onto something ... ;)

Caco

Um... lifting...
24th Nov 2013, 07:12
Golden eagles, I'm hardly surprised. They don't get out of the way of anything. It's their flight level, their sky, and anything else is either prey or an interloper.

Many times I've encountered golden eagles same altitude along my route of flight orbiting and scouting ground prey. They will not so much as twitch a wingtip feather to get out of the way of an aircraft. Once riding thermals they really do not like to flap their wings unless absolutely necessary, and won't give up altitude unless there's something tasty at the bottom of the dive.

If they defecate in the general direction of one's aircraft that's about all the recognition one is likely to get.

500N
24th Nov 2013, 07:44
Spoken like a pilot :O

It's quite interesting that birds can dive, climb vertically and do all sorts of
weird and wonderful acrobatics to get out of the way of a hawk or eagle
- even fly upside down to harass them - but won't, don't or can't get out of
the way of a light aircraft !!!

onetrack
24th Nov 2013, 12:58
In the days of yore (late 1800's to the late 20th century) - the early "John Lysaght" galvanised CGI roofs, on Outback and station buildings - which gleamed bright silver, on clear, bright moonlit nights - were often mistaken at night by swans and other migratory birds, as being sheets of flat water.

Station people were often rudely and abruptly awakened by swans and other large birds slamming into CGI roofs with substantial force, on bright moonlit nights, as they mistakenly tried to land on them.

Many swans and other migratory birds were regularly killed and badly injured in this manner in that era. Coloured roof coatings took over from plain galvanising (or zincalume, as it is today), so the problem now seems to be lessened.
What didn't help, in the case of the birds mistakes, was the robustness of the old CGI, which used to be solid enough to stand on, without any centre support.
With todays light gauge roof sheeting, swans would probably go straight through it!

1911 - Black swan kills itself by mistakenly landing on roof (http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=CHP19110609.2.31)

500N
24th Nov 2013, 13:04
OneTrack

Good one, never heard that before.

Swans used to regularly land on wet roads in the UK.

vee-tail-1
24th Nov 2013, 16:25
It's quite interesting that birds can dive, climb vertically and do all sorts of
weird and wonderful acrobatics to get out of the way of a hawk or eagle
- even fly upside down to harass them - but won't, don't or can't get out of
the way of a light aircraft !!!


Hmnn ... My experience flying my ATL around Pembrokeshire is that Buzzards will expect me to give way, while Seagulls generally break left or right and dive away. Formated on a Buzzard in a thermal once, the look of total disgust it gave me was priceless. It might be the swept forward wings and vee tail of the ATL that give it a slightly predatory look to some birds.

G-CPTN
24th Nov 2013, 17:48
Swans used to regularly land on wet roads in the UK.

Indeed - I worked at a vehicle-test facility with a long straight road that regularly attracted swans to land who then struggled to take-off again so they would hang around for ages.