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RetiredTooEarly
23rd Nov 2013, 05:32
BOEING PROPOSES NEW FLIGHT DECK EQUIPMENT
EVERETT, WA (AP) Boeing Commercial Airplane Company Vice President of Engineering, Bill Alum, today announced the company's development of a new, high technology transport jet flight deck warning system designed to help pilots avoid the sort of incident that Asiana Airlines flight 214 experienced recently while attempting to land in San Francisco. The new device utilizes measurements of air pressure taken at different points on the aircraft's airframe to calculate how fast the airplane is traveling through the air. The actual technology involved in the inputs and how they are processed is still considered proprietary technological information by Boeing, as well as by the U.S. Department of Defense.
Mr. Alum said that this device, if installed in all new aircraft, as well as being retrofitted into the existing commercial aircraft fleet, “has the potential to save hundreds of lives each year”. It is engineered to provide the pilots of these mammoth, high performance aircraft with continuous, real-time updates of how fast the airplane is moving. This will allow them to always make sure that the aircraft's speed remains within a safe operating envelope. “Information is power”, said Mr. Alum. The full name of the device is yet to be determined, but the current working name is “airspeed indicator”.
Reaction within the aviation industry has ranged from skepticism to enthusiasm. Dr. Phillip Head, chairman of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering at M.I.T. stated that his department has been recommending something such as an airspeed indicator for many years, but that their advocacy for it has “fallen on deaf ears”.
In Toulouse, France, AirBus Chief Engineer Pierre Le Fou said that, due to AirBus' advanced flight guidance systems, such a device would be an unnecessary addition to their flight decks. “The technical advancement of our flight decks is such that pilots have no need for this type of information. Our guidance systems are constantly aware of all pertinent parameters while in flight, and will automatically keep them within the normal range. The pilots of our aircraft have no use for such a device as an airspeed indicator”.
In Seoul, Korean Pilots Association (KPA) spokesman Lee Bang-wan stated that a device such as this proposed airspeed indicator would only serve to be a distraction in the flight deck, and that KPA pilots would probably just ignore it. Additionally, he stated that such a complex system was unneeded considering that the KPA pilots have a safety record that is “equal to that of any air carrier that is currently based in Korea”.
In Washington, D.C., R. N. Mowth, a spokesman for the U.S. Air Transport Association, stated that “oppressive federal regulation, such as any requirement to have so-called airspeed indicators installed in transport aircraft, is just one more sign of a government run amok with too much power, and its stifling of the free enterprise system”.
Skepticism not withstanding, Boeing seems to be determined to proceed with the development of this new flight deck technology. Mr. Alum stated that “we feel that, once pilots reach the point that they understand the value of the heretofore unavailable information that our proposed airspeed indicator can give them, they will embrace this new device and will learn to keep a close eye on it”.
When Boeing is finished developing the AIRSPEED INDICATOR, rumor has it that they are going to begin developing an instrument that tells the pilot how high he's flying and they're going to call it an ALTIMETER. It will also be an important instrument for the pilot to keep his eyes on, especially during an IFR or VFR approach.

Nemrytter
23rd Nov 2013, 05:48
And so arrives the proof that 'PPRuNe' has simply become 'RuNe'. Or maybe even 'Ne'.
Now, where's the METARs?

Volume
23rd Nov 2013, 11:22
I think we should stop speculation here, and wait until we have a report from the authorities about this new device and its implications on flight safety

Cacophonix
23rd Nov 2013, 11:47
It is rumoured that Airbus have taken the newly invented altimeter and by a cunningly contrived electronic system linked to the airspeed indicator, using George Bool's logic, now allow automated outputs that control an automatic throttle. All the pilot does is follow the dogma and all is well:

"Das rubbernecken sichtseeren keepen das cotten-pickenen hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und watchen das blinkenlichten."

Ah progress is a wonderful thing....

Caco

SASless
23rd Nov 2013, 11:51
I see one major flaw to the system.....what happens when parts of the airplane are traveling at different speeds possibly in different directions?

Out Of Trim
23rd Nov 2013, 11:57
You've Crashed! :(

dubbleyew eight
23rd Nov 2013, 11:57
ahhh sasless. the new systems will have either a windows button or a control-alt-delete key.

skydiver69
23rd Nov 2013, 12:24
I think that Boeing should also give serious consideration to some sort of device to help pilots get to the right airport. Some sort of updated map device or even something which will enable them to fly in a set direction relative to a fixed point.

UniFoxOs
23rd Nov 2013, 12:29
In Toulouse, France, AirBus Chief Engineer Pierre Le Fou said that .... such a device would be an unnecessary addition to their flight decks. “... pilots have no need for this type of information. The pilots of our aircraft have no use for such a device as an airspeed indicator”.

Pity it's not true.

Um... lifting...
23rd Nov 2013, 12:39
Pierre Le Fou

:D

Mon Dieu!

alisoncc
23rd Nov 2013, 22:25
Given the recent significant increase in aircraft related deaths, AirBoingUs have devised this relatively simple concept of having two trained guys sit up the front on every aircraft in order to tell the computer systems when they have screwed up. It is believed that this may prevent incidents similar to a recent one at LHR where a A3767 landed upside down, to the detriment of the passengers overhead baggage.

Whilst this concept has been tried before, it was found previously that the trained monkeys had difficulties communicating with the computers, often pressing the buttons in the wrong order. An attempted solution involved mounting a banana dispenser above each button, but the bananas kept sticking. With human crews it is felt that an "M & M" dispenser may be less likely to jam.

funfly
23rd Nov 2013, 23:00
The terrifying fact is that we all know that things only go wrong when the humans try to take over from the computers.

pigboat
23rd Nov 2013, 23:22
..what happens when parts of the airplane are traveling at different speeds possibly in different directions?
You're talking helicopters here, right?

racedo
24th Nov 2013, 01:02
Place for the dog to sit and a place for a human to ensure he is fed :E

ExSp33db1rd
24th Nov 2013, 02:49
.........Some sort of updated map device .............On my very first trip New York to Los Angeles - circa early1960's the Captain was also on his first trip, it being a new schedule for us, and followed the Airways route with an AAA road map he had purchased for the trip, taking delight in noticing cities that he / we had only previously heard of by name.

A pax outside the then open flight deck door, was not impressed with our "professionalism" - but we got to the right airport in the right city!

A million years later I was offered a visual approach to JFK, number 2 to a PanAm 707 - did I have the 707 in sight ? Yes, OK follow him.

When I realised that the Clipper was not turning on to the approach to 22L I declared runway in sight, and requested landing clearance. ATC asked Clipper 1 his position. Long pause - Clipper 1 requesting vectors to final ! They had no idea where the airport was.

Trainee co-pilot leaving Singapore for Australia, screwed up the insertion of a new waypoint into the INS, and insisted that I fly a heading of 310 - enroute SIN for AUS !!

But go on using your iPads etc. I'm sure you're right.

alisoncc
24th Nov 2013, 04:15
Trainee co-pilot leaving Singapore for Australia, screwed up the insertion of a new waypoint into the INS, and insisted that I fly a heading of 310 - enroute SIN for AUS !! So what's wrong with taking the scenic route?

ExSp33 you need to take time to smell the flowers, rushing from A to B via the shortest route all the time, what pleasure is there in that? :)

racedo
24th Nov 2013, 13:28
ExSp33 you need to take time to smell the flowers, rushing from A to B via the shortest route all the time, what pleasure is there in that? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

Cold one in the bar awaits and he doesn't have to listen to CC going on about their lives...............................

barit1
24th Nov 2013, 14:44
Once - in the club's Cessna 140 - I was in a IFH (I Follow Highways) mode, skirted IND via the I-465 circle freeway - and picked the wrong I-road to follow.

It took me about 20 miles to wake up to the wrong features along the roadside. :uhoh::O

Lon More
24th Nov 2013, 15:02
Skydiver69 wrote Boeing should also give serious consideration to some sort of device to help pilots get to the right airport

Boeings should have had it years ago. 1960 PanAm 707 went o Norhholt iso Heathrow and in1964 a Lufthansa 707 nearly copied it.

From Wiki In the days before navigational aids such as instrument landing systems (ILS) and the global positioning system (GPS) were available, the letters NO (for Northolt) and LH (for Heathrow) were painted on two gasometers on the approach to each airfield, one at Southall for the approach to Heathrow's diagonal runway (coded 23L) and one at South Harrow for the approach to Northolt's runway (then coded 26),

KAG
24th Nov 2013, 18:38
Retired too early: thanks I had a good laugh!

This story is even funnier (Boeing developing a new device: the airspeed indicator, and the French Pierre Le Fou saying it is useless blahblahblah) when we all know that the French Albert Octave Etévé invented the airspeed indicator and the French airplanes were the first in the world to be equipped with an airspeed indicator. :ok::ok::ok:

Lon More
24th Nov 2013, 18:45
Hang this under the wing and there might be a few unstablised approaches

http://www.michaelandersonlrps.co.uk/images/dh%20images/Hornet%20Moth%20ASI.jpg

aah! de Havilland!

barit1
24th Nov 2013, 18:47
Yet another misguided Boeing (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5342681/)

cattletruck
25th Nov 2013, 00:45
Word from BoingBus R&D is that the nextgen planes won't "boot" unless the pilot pushes the "I Agree" button when the End User License Agreement (EULA) pops up on the PFD.

To save on legal costs and to improve the efficiency in pushing the "I Agree" button, only the word Microsoft has been replaced to BoingBus in the EULA. This now brings nextgen pilots in line with a culture that is used to things crashing.

radeng
25th Nov 2013, 11:22
Lon More


>LH (for Heathrow) were painted on two gasometers on the approach to each airfield, one at Southall for the approach to Heathrow's diagonal runway (coded 23L) <

I came back on the train from Paddington the other month in daylight and could still see the 'LH' painted on the Southall gasometer.

MagnusP
25th Nov 2013, 11:26
Is it true about the Airbus pilot who kept rebooting his systems until someone told him "no, it's not the Blue Screen of Death, that's the sky through the window."?

SASless
25th Nov 2013, 11:40
Boeing 747 mistakenly lands at small Kansas airport - DC News FOX 5 DC WTTG (http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/24030715/boeing-747-mistakenly-lands-at-small-kansas-airport#axzz2lezgn7cz)

Blacksheep
25th Nov 2013, 12:19
Pilots already have a device in the flight deck to tell them how fast they are going. It is called an Airspeed Indicator. The pilot flying the aircraft has a warning system to tell him when he is going too slowly. It is called a pilot not-flying or in colloquial parlance a "co-pilot". :rolleyes:

The new technology is not there to replace the airspeed indicator per se, it removes the risk of ice or insects blocking the pitot probe and causing mis-reading. I've read all about it in the kind of magazines that we avionics engineers (or coneheads in common parlance) read when we're not posting on PPRuNe

DX Wombat
25th Nov 2013, 20:24
Is this technology still in use?

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/11_01/041catdog_468x461.jpg

Lonewolf_50
25th Nov 2013, 21:51
Retired Too Early: what is aviation content doing in Jet Blast? :confused:

ExSp33db1rd
25th Nov 2013, 22:29
........came back on the train from Paddington the other month in daylight and could still see the 'LH' painted on the Southall gasometer.

High flying train ?

It is called a pilot not-flying or in colloquial parlance a "co-pilot"

Ahh ! but in 'my days' co-pilots were only supposed to speak when spoken to.

SASless
26th Nov 2013, 11:12
The correct Method is "Cat and Duck" but sometimes a Dog must be added to ensure accuracy of the system.

Cat & Duck IFR (http://www.humoretc.com/ccontent/catduck.php)

radeng
26th Nov 2013, 14:28
exsppedbrd

It's on the vertical side of the gasometer - for all I know, maybe on the top as well.

Which is why you can see it from the train - in daylight. It is not illuminated at night.

DX Wombat
26th Nov 2013, 15:57
Thanks SASless :ok: I see some places are continuing to train the participants in that method. ;)

http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/cat-shark-dog-duck-rumba.jpg

ExSp33db1rd
26th Nov 2013, 20:46
It's on the vertical side of the gasometer - for all I know, maybe on the top as well.

It definitely used to be on the top, seen it, but to see it painted on the side would mean that the pilot could just be a little low ? !!! :O

radeng
26th Nov 2013, 21:41
Guess it depends on the glide slope and where he's looking...I've not worked out where he would have to be with a 3 degree glide slope, but it's definitely on the side. I don't know about the top.

Not much use these days, though.

ExSp33db1rd
26th Nov 2013, 23:09
I don't know about the top.

Seem to recall that it had 2 arrows, one to the left towards the old runway 23 L at Heathrow and the other to the right towards Northolt, but 23 L was decommisioned many years ago, and I only ever landed on it once anyway.

Just reading a book about PanAm over the years, that's not mentioned - yet !

G-CPTN
26th Nov 2013, 23:15
The Gasometers at the old Southall gas works in West London are deemed to stay, not that they are in use nor are they really connected to anything outside of the gas works.
No, the reason they are to stay is that they are air pointers to London Heathrow Airport as the main one has a large arrow and LHR painted on it's top (this is seem easily from the passing train when the gasometer is dropped into it's pit for maintenance).From:- Urban Sightseeing: #1 Gasometers | Londonist (http://londonist.com/2009/01/gasometers.php)

(though I have failed to find to locate an image using GoogleMap StreetView)

However:- Boris Johnson launches next stage of Southall Gasworks regeneration - Get West London (http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/local-news/boris-johnson-launches-next-stage-6306946)

Loose rivets
27th Nov 2013, 03:41
Ten years ago, or perhaps more, I recalled how the arrows on the top of the gassometers would rotate as the vast vessel filled or emptied. It had been suggested aircraft would get lost if gas usage was high.

Someone poo-poo'd my story, claiming to know just what the thruth was. I protested I'd dined out on the yarn, and was dismayed to find it might not be the truth.

In that era, I lived in Kensington, £4/10/00 a week it cost, and commuted to LHR most days. I don't recall ever seeing the darn signs because my landings were so crap I'd keep my eyes closed most of the time.