IAE V2500 starter failure

[RacingSnake]

Hi guys,
first post, sorry if it's in the wrong place :uhoh: (I'm not an airline tech, nor an airline employee etc)

Anyway, I guess I'm looking for likely scenario's regarding the failure of this component....
Is it likely that the brushes have worn? (I understand there is a wear indicator which is checked at maintenance? - what is the frequency of these checks?)
Does the whole motor typically fail?
Is it an 'easy' replacement?
Being a commonly used engine, what are the availability of spares like?

Many thanks in advance! :ok:

[mainwheel]

Are you settling a bet?

The starter motor is a small turbine with a clutch, driven by air. No brushes!!

I'd guess bearing failure or clutch is the most likely cause.

Spares, extremely expensive, is up to the operator if they want to have.

If you have the $$, can get quite easily i'd assume.

Replacement fairly easy task.

[emergency000]

The only airliner currently in general use that uses electric starter motors on its main engines is the Boeing 787. And those definitely aren't IAE V2500s! All others use air starters, as mainwheel said, powered by APU bleed air (or an air start unit in the scenario of an inop APU).

[T.R Haychemu]

Settling a bet? I'd say it was more likely RacingSnake is a passenger who is digging for some gen, to put a case together that a starter failure should have been forseen, and that the delay they incurred is as a result of the airline's poor maintenance :=. Hope you are not trying to do this!

In any case, starter failures are very rare. The V2500 is air driven, and as mentioned a bearing/clutch failure is most likely. Engineers can monitor for early signs of failure, in the AMP there is a task to check the starter's Mag Chip Detector, the frequency of this depends on the airline's CAA approved AMP - most likely at every A check.

If no debris is found during this check then there would have been no way to forsee a starter going U/S. Aircraft are very complicated machines, with lots of moving parts, stuff breaks all the time, sh*t happens.

[spannersatcx]

drive shaft sheared maybe.

[RacingSnake]

Thanks chaps, some interesting info.
I actually thought I'd read on here about the apu starter motor brushes in a previous thread/search - rookie error, my apologies.


To clear up some rationale:
I'm not settling a bet, nor casting any aspersions on any maintenance regimes http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cwm13.gif
However I've been lurking for years on this forum, just reading out of personal interest, never had anything to contribute as I'm not in this industry. I only chose to sign up and post because there are some clued up guys here who would (might) respond with specific knowledge/experience.


That said, it is indeed with regards to a flight delay caused by starter failure, I am asking on behalf of a colleague (yes really! lol), who has already been told 'no - extra ordinary circumstances etc etc'. She isn't going to do anything else, but from a personal interest perspective I wanted to know what could fail (and why), how long it might take to fix etc.
Is it like a car starter, unbolt/replace etc (obviously it's clearly not).


One of the final points which was sent in her 'no' response was that the replacement starter was sourced from the airlines 'home base'... so I wondered if this was necessary - or would it be like the equivalent of 'eurocarparts' where a replacement unit could be found from another major airport/base?

[spannersatcx]

airlines pay to join what is called a 'pooling agreement' if an airline operates to say LHR but its base is say JFK, it would be unfeasible to hold all spares at LHR. But if they are 'pooled' and so too are BA then you could get a part from BA without additional cost. Not every part is part of the pooling agreement though. Another way is to loan parts on an emergency basis, however this can be very expensive, you pay per day.

A starter failure whilst not unusual, doesn't happen that often these days, plenty of preventative maintenance to prevent this, so should it fail and you are not at home base and not pooled it can be difficult and expensive to procure parts.

how long it might take to fix etc.
Is it like a car starter, unbolt/replace etc (obviously it's clearly not).
1-2 hours to replace maybe depends on the engine.
bleed ducts need disconnecting, seals/drive shaft may need replacing, it is normally attached to the engine gearbox by what's called a quad ring which can be difficult. If the drive shaft has sheared it may be difficult to remove from the gearbox drive.

[RacingSnake]

Thanks for the reply http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif All interesting to know.


I'd read another thread on here about a stuck start valve which was fixed by hitting it! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif
http://www.pprune.org/questions/123042-airbus-a320-engine-problem.html

[emergency000]

I actually thought I'd read on here about the apu starter motor brushes in a previous thread/search

That would be correct. APU starter motors are much more like a car's starter motor, in that they are electric motors and are powered by the aircraft's battery. Once started, it's the APU that supplies bleed air to the main engine air starters.

So yes, you read correctly. However, that only applies to APUs.

Cheers,
John

[howard2107]

Interesting to read how things have come on a bit. It is years and years ago since i last set spanner on Aircraft. and in my day they had starter generators which were electric, not particularly difficult to replace, but bloody heavy, especially on the HS125 tail mounted engine, incidentally it was the series one HS125, and it even had a carbon pile regulated Inverter stuck up the tail hatch, even more fun to replace. Those were the days, the move in technology, not to mention reliability has come on leaps and bounds. The stuff i was involved with is a bit like a Telly with valves in compared to todays all singing and dancing stuff.

If you want basic, then Chipmunk it has to be, not much more complex than a glider, just a bit noisier, but good times were had back then, and we actually used to get a good few hours in them as well.:ok:

[Engineer_aus]

ALF502/LF507's use electric starters....

[spannersatcx]

Thanks for the reply http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif All interesting to know.


I'd read another thread on here about a stuck start valve which was fixed by hitting it! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif
http://www.pprune.org/questions/123042-airbus-a320-engine-problem.html
Start valve and starter motor are 2 different things.

Start valve is an electrically controlled pneumatic valve that opens to allow air to act on the starter motor, which spins, and is coupled to the engine gearbox by a shaft. The start valve can be manually driven to open in case of some failure in the electrical side of the valve, normally a 3/8 drive t-handle will do it.

[TURIN]

The start valve can be manually driven to open in case of some failure in the electrical side of the valve, normally a 3/8 drive t-handle will do it.

Or you could just tw4t it with yer shoe. :O

[spannersatcx]

there is that too!

[barit1]

The Gnome turboshaft like its GE T58 cousin has an electric starter IIRC. But these are helo engines.