Problems at Brindabella?

[Going Nowhere]

Brindabella Airlines grounds planes for 'maintenance review' | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/brindabella-airlines-grounds-planes-for-maintenance-review/story-fnii5s3x-1226761687167)

Looks like quite a few of their planes have been out of service well before Friday

[Fieldmouse]

on a couple of routes they codeshare, just to keep the punters happy.
I've heard the companies issues aren't all maintenance related either.
Fingers crossed they get it sorted quickly.

[musicalaviator]

4 planes.

Sounds like the Jetstream 4100 fleet.

I'd reccon the Metro III and JS31 fleet are still running.

[Going Nowhere]

VH-OTD ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHOTD) - Hasn't flown since 5/11
VH-OTE ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHOTE) - Hasn't flown since 7/11

[OpsNormal]

And one of their Metros is sitting in Domestic 5 in Sydney with no tail feathers courtesy of a catering truck, next to one of the grounded JS32s (which has just had an engine change). I hear Fort Fumble have chucked a few extra conditions onto the 32's engine change before they will be happy....

Hope you good Brindy folk currently sidelined can get back into the air soon.

[DutyofCare]

Gee Jeff, look what happens when you leave !!!
I think Gus had to act after so many engineering stuffups.
I think the only a/c flying is the 1s they are soon to scrap ???
Who will be the 1st to replace Brindys #1 route: the BN-TW run ?
Will it be Q or V ?
With the busiest month coming up in JAN ( due to the TW music fest ), I'm sure all the paperwork will be on CASAs table this morning !!!
The interesting thing will be crewing with Q & V: both of their recruiting systems have failed successfully & so much $/efforts has been cast to the breeze.
I'm thinking Q will be trying very hard for this high yielding run as their about to loose 20 odd return flts/week to Moranbah from BN next yr.
The other interesting thing is will CASA approve Q to the run after so many Q400 tailstrikes ???
Hmmm...

[noclue]

Was Brisbane Tamworth a code share flight with Q??
If so wouldn't it make sense then that the Q keep that service running?..
It's a port they already operate into (from Syd).

Moranbah might be slowing, (had too many flights in the first place IMHO) Miles is about to start up though. Gas 'mines' seem to be growing, where as the growth we were seeing in coal has plateaued.

Too many?? I doubt your in a position to make that judgement, let alone publicly.

[Going Nowhere]

DofC

The other interesting thing is will CASA approve Q to the run after so many Q400 tailstrikes ???

What's that got to do with TMW? For the record, QLink have had 1 tailstrike in the Q400 and up until that point were just about the only Q400 operator in the world not to have had one, which given the size of the fleet and the amount of sectors they fly isn't too bad.

Axe to grind? Sour grapes? Got the thanks but no thanks email?
Hmmm... :E

[DutyofCare]

For the record, QLink have had 1 tailstrike in the Q400 and up until that point were just about the only Q400 operator in the world not to have had one, which given the size of the fleet and the amount of sectors they fly isn't too bad.

Sorry, that's just wrong !

Why the new SOP to push forward on the yokes by the NFP ???
The Dept are all over this issue with Q, not to mention the amount of $ spent on extra engineering inspections.
No axe to grind here...

[Going Nowhere]

Pushing forward on the yoke? Must've missed that FOAB... :confused:

[NowThatsFunny]

"The ATSB annotated while there have been many tail strikes of DH8Ds around the planet partly with substantial damage, this was the first encounter in Australia."

I guess all of the other tail strikes DofC is talking about must have been in PNG???:ok:

[Waghi Warrior]

Q400 tail strikes in PNG???? Interesting statement, can you substantiate with operators involved and locations? :eek:

The Q400 operator in PNG has a good safety track record, second to none actually especially given the environment they operate in..................

[Check_Thrust]

Waghi Warrior,

I think NowThatsFunny was having a dig at DutyofCare's statement on tail strikes by saying that because there has only been one in Australia by Qlink that the rest that have supposedly have happened must have ooccurred in PNG on their Cairns - Port Moresby run, not to insinuate that a PNG Q400 operator has been having tail strikes.

[NowThatsFunny]

Correct CT. Sorry for the confusion WW.

Perhaps DofC can elaborate on his Sorry, that's just wrong !

[Cactusjack]

My concern is this - Almost every time that CAsA is getting lined up for a potential bullet they come out flexing their muscle and usually just happen to ground an airline, issue a 'show cause' or ensure that the heat is deflected off them on to an operator of sorts, by showing that they truly are a capital 'R' regulator. I hope this is not the case here?

[Horatio Leafblower]

Oh come now Cactus Jack.

Brindabella's media release says they grounded the aircraft themselves and advised CASA that they had done so.

[Hi LDL-Low HDL]

A few Rumours:

The previous owner of Brindy is stil owed a significant sum, and there is a significant amount of maintenance outstanding on his Metros;

There are two J32s pushed against the fence for a lack of Maintenance, or money to complete it;

They are paying cash for fuel at Narrabri;

There is no evidence of a Hot Section Inspection being completed on one of the J32s- 1500 hours overdue - CASA grounding 1.

There are several ADs significantly overflown on the J41s - Groundings 2 and 3.

None of the Ground Handlers have been paid.

It is a pity that the ex-Aeropelican commercial management have now done to Brindy's what they first did to Aeropelican, and were aparrently doing to each other all along :=

[falconx]

All those are true and correct!

[Horatio Leafblower]

Brindabella will fly away from Orange forever: Hazelton | Central Western Daily (http://www.centralwesterndaily.com.au/story/1943194/brindabella-will-fly-away-from-orange-forever-hazelton/?cs=102)

It seems that Orange, much like NBR & MDG & MOR, have hsd enough of the product offered. Pelican had the same person running "yield management" as they had running customer service. This is the result.

Have we heard the pitter patter of little Ducs yet?

[megle2]

This all sounds pretty serious to me
Are Casa being gentle with Brinda rather than apply the Barrier treatment

[OpsNormal]

This all sounds pretty serious to me
Are Casa being gentle with Brinda rather than apply the Barrier treatment

They are going for the same result, just in a different manner. Though some past and present members of (now) Brindy upper management would seem to have either played into CASA's hands, and other have done their level best to financially break the company... After the IV "long haul" speech of 2012 it was odd to see him parachute out so quickly. The signs were there and (take it from someone who has owned and run a business previously), the massive amount of mid to upper level dis-organisation and deliberate vagueness of information (and occasional mis-information) that was given to employees is, and will never be, any way to treat an employee group that relies upon a strong, cohesive management structure to feed their families long term. :=

I cannot imagine Jeff and Lara would be all that happy seeing what remains of their blood, sweat and tears for so long ending this way. I visited the gate at Sydney last night for a quick catch-up with the guys there..... One solitary flight in the system for today.... That isn't going to get too many staff (or even Jeff) paid... :=

I feel for those staff involved and hope the current situation ends well for them.

Horatio, I would imagine it would soon be dining upon satay frog legs if not already...:sad:

[Horatio Leafblower]

Kevin Humphries is the State member for Barwon - check out the whinging on his F-book page about Brindy's services to Moree:

Kevin Humphries (https://www.facebook.com/kevin.humphries?fref=ts)

:suspect:

[puff]

Do you blame them Horatio? Moree had Qlink and both the local and state government handed the contract to Brindy and promised them 3 flights a day, with a J41. Since then they regularly cancel the flight without notice, or downgrade to a Metro, some days in this shutdown they haven't had a flight in days. I think I'd be feeling a bit peeved in those situations as well!

They had a professional well run operation, they now have Brindy!

[Horatio Leafblower]

No Puff - I don't blame them. I have worked in customer service of some sort all my life and I have never before worked for a business that took such a "fuggem!" attitude to the satisfaction of their clients.

We at Pelican hoped that there would be a different attitude at Brindys and it would dilute the French/Vietnamese influence, but no apparently not.

[TBM-Legend]

Losing their QF support is akin to drinking poison. In a couple of weeks the low pax season kicks in with the costs much the same but the revenue going south. Not a good combo. The guess the CBA will be watching with interest>>

[Copythisnumberdown]

The guess the CBA will be watching with interest

More than interested, Korda Mentha are there now along with a bus load of CASA people. Doesnt look good

[ihavelotsofquestions]

Is it possible CASA are there to see the progress of the other grounded aircraft? or is it more serious?

[KRUSTY 34]

Any truth to the rumour that the pilots were required to take out a personal bank loan, guaranteed by the company, to fund their training? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/icon25.gif

[Paragraph377]

Not a good look if the Ansett twins are hanging about their office? And CAsA there in droves isn't a good thing either.

Anyone know if they have been paying cash for their fuel? That is usually the icing on the cake and the potential death knell.

[Copythisnumberdown]

How serious does it get when the web site lets you book a flight on their whole network for a flight tomorrow or any other day, take your money on a credit card and only have a couple of aircraft flying:=

[bankrunner]

There's a notice on my employer's online travel booking site (ASX20 company) specifically instructing staff *not* to book on Brindabella despite flights allegedly being available :=

I'm guessing we must have had some people getting caught away from home without a flight back.

[OpsNormal]

Krusty, yes that was what the company brought in around twelve months ago for new hires and for crews transitioning onto the J41 from other fleets and/or The Duck.

Management reasoning? Instant cashflow for the training over in the USofA (the loan was facilitated by the company with the credit provider and was repaid on behalf of the employee whilst still employed) and if the pilot left within the duration of the bank loan then the company got to wipe its hands of the loan and pass the debt onto the pilot to service the remainder of.

A different (novel) way of enforcing a training bond. The employer got quick cash, the employee got an endo paid for (if s/he stayed the full term), the only downside for the company was the interest repayments which from what I understand would have been partially if not fully tax deductable anyway.

What satisfactory answer was not forthcoming from the company back then was what happened to signed-up employees loans if the company went bust.... :oh:

[TBM-Legend]

Krusty, if a pilot walks and the company has guaranteed the loan then the company has a problem. They'd have to chase the borrower if the guarantee was called.

Not a good look if KM and CASA rock up. KM will be there at the behest of the bank I imagine.

[Inbound On Descent]

Krusty, TBM,

The loan arrangement was actually one of the things Brindy did well, and one of the best mechanisms for funding training that I've come across.

The candidate took out the loan - lets say $20K over three years - or whatever it was. The company then made the repayments. No cost to the candidate, unless they walked prior to end of the agreed term.

No capital outlay. Endorsement at no cost, unless you change your mind. Seems pretty fair to me.

Inbound

[Chocks Away]

It was $33,000/$35,000 for a J41 type rating over 3 years.
Only Sim remaining is in Florida, with poor visuals.
Pity what's happened, as Brindy had potential... obviously lost it's way & those in charge don't have the mustard.

[KRUSTY 34]

IOD,

Whether the funding of the training was the best you've seen or not, it unfortunately begs the question.... How solid is the organisation in the first place if it has to rely on this sort of thing to train its pilots?

Now I'm not across the reasons for Qlink being dumped in favor of Brindy at Moree, but it seems to me that once again a regional community has been screwed over by political incompetence!

[Going Nowhere]

Another J41 U/S in Moree, down to 1 BNE-based J41.
All J32's parked up.

Can't be good news...

Hope they can get their house in order before time/money runs out.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Whether the funding of the training was the best you've seen or not, it unfortunately begs the question.... How solid is the organisation in the first place if it has to rely on this sort of thing to train its pilots?

Krusty,

You know very well that a pilot will say anything to get into that first turboprop job. At Pelican (where this scheme originated before the merger of the 2) we were burnt time and again by pilots promising to give a 2-year return of service who would f:mad:k off after 12 months.

How long can a company keep shrugging its shoulders and baring its cheeks again and again and again?

[Wizofoz]

- By being an employer people don't WANT to leave after 12 months.....

[chewi]

If you looked after your staff you wouldn't need a bond!!

[neville_nobody]

By being an employer people don't WANT to leave after 12 months

Guys there are plenty of good employers who over the years have done the right thing and have still been burnt by pilots. Noone is going to get 150K+ flying a turboprop. Reality is most people are going to join a jet airline if given the opportunity no matter how good your current employer is.

From my experience even if you hire older guys saying they'll hang around they usually bail too. That is the plight of those in the middle of the aviation food chain unfortunately.

[Capt Fathom]

It's called progression, and it's been going on for years.

Unfortunately these days, everyone seems to make a fuss about it. :confused:

[puff]

I'd feel nervous with a loan for $30 odd k in your name with a company 'guarantee' to pay it off in this current situation, especially with what is a pretty useless endorsement in Australia in a J41.

How deep are their pockets, cause even if they get through this current crisis the damage they have done to their reputation is huge, I reakon they will struggle not to go under. Nearly everyone in Moree has given up on them and drive to ARM or TMW to get the link, or catch the train.

I do feel for them, the regional industry is a tough one, and aircraft choices in this market are slim, but the J41 was always a orphan especially in Oz but the whole region, surely the Brasilia whilst more expensive would have been a better choice, and the Metro was a great machine(debatable), 20 odd years ago.

Krusty - re the tender MRZ really did get screwed, QFlink tendered but lost out, funny that a Dash 8, with op spares, access to lounge/FF etc was more expensive than Brindy with a J41 and none of the above. It's not like QF didn't want it, the gov saw a way to save some $$ and took it. Needless to say another regional community feeling forgotten about by elected officials!

[TBM-Legend]

Puff, the routes in NSW are not subsidised but regulated. The NSW Govt isn't saving money...mostly it is about service levels offered by applicants and community support etc. I think Brindi offered three flights/day vs. QF two for example. This appeals to the council etc etc. I think Brindi offered QF FF points so QF club members could use the QF SYD facilities and collect FF points.

The drought and other factors always play a part in pax loads as well as reliability of course.

[OpsNormal]

Councils and passengers can bitch and moan about a service being reduced and/or withdrawn but the plain simple fact remains that if they don't use the service (or drive to other ports to use theirs) it will be withdrawn. Moree Plain Shire Council offer next to no incentive (apart from a single digit percentage rate off the landing fees) to keep the service operating.

Heavily utilised aircraft (possibly over utilised on some days - 15 minute turn arounds were always a winner with crews.... not) of course go U/S from time to time and the airline is expected to pull a spare aircraft out of thin air, weather and traffic delays in and out of Sydney - not to mention try explaining what an hour plus Metron delay is to passengers with connections, or why their service is two hours late getting there because ATC flow massively delayed the first leg of a six sector day and you've had to go like stink just to whittle their delay down to what it is... Of course it is always the airline's fault the short-memoried locals get farted about - it always and invariably is and don't the front line staff get to hear about it...:ugh:

Puff, there are a multitude of reasons why they didn't use one aircraft over another, pavement concessions and a few other reasons spring to mind as many strips around the place are not built strong enough for many types to operate multiple times a day. Though I will say one thing... BAH did look at the Braz and there were enough good reasons not to use it.

[Cleared Visual]

Ops Normal, I don't work in the airline industry, but I am frequently a passenger. About 9 years back I semi-regularly used the QF MRZ-SYD service. I know that delays happen for various reasons and are at times inevitable. Once experienced a weather related diversion to TMW and a bus to Moree. But the Q Link crew kept us informed every step and as a safety issue, I had no problem with that. What I would have a problem with, is after many years of providing a safe and reliable service, a govt tender is awarded to a company with a poor reputation in that community against the community's wishes and within one year, that company proves once again it is not able to reliably provide the promised level of service.

If there is no guarantee that a flight will run on any given day, and ambiguous information is given at short notice about cancellations and delays for customers relying on the service to get them to business meetings/medical appointments/international connections on time, do you seriously expect they will continue to use it? Especially when there are alternatives available which admittedly might add 3 hours to the travel time, but offer better reliability?

Let me also say, I respect the hard, complex work and long hours put in by both flight and cabin crews, and many years of lurking on Pprune has taught me a regional airline is certainly not the easiest place to work. Because of this in part, and also because I am a generally patient and agreeable person who spent many years in customer service myself, I would not be inclined to vent my frustrations to the customer facing staff who are put under unreasonable pressure by the company's disorganisation.

What I would do is write to management and express my concerns. If these issues continued to occur and there was no satisfactory explanation, such as the airline being unable to perform maintenance on time leading to half its fleet being grounded and continuing to take bookings despite knowing it does not have the capacity to operate all those services, then like the good folk in Moree, I would vote with my feet and no longer patronise this service.

If you regard your customers with contempt, you will go broke very quickly. As a pilot, you have a job because the public need to travel. I hope that Brindabella sort it out because a lot of jobs are on the line and unemployment ain't fun in this economy, not to mention the flow on effects in the towns that will be left isolated if they wind up.

[OpsNormal]

Cleared Visual, I hear you and what you are saying for the most part but you are preaching to the choir..... I do think you may be simplifying some of the issues a little, however (as an previous employer and business owner prior to becoming involved in aviation many years ago) I agree with many points you raise with reference to treatment of customers and I will add - their own staff.

You may be reading my post above and feel that I am an apologist for the company. I am anything but such.... I would imagine that these latest issues are enough to destroy any remaining credibility the company had in the eyes of the fare paying public which is a real shame as 7-8 years ago it was a great little company to work for. :ok:

[Cleared Visual]

Indeed I have simplified the issues, but as I said I don't work in the industry... Although, I can see Brindabella's HQ from my office, and my interest in this primarily stems from observing the growing number of parked aircraft outside the hangar. I'm also a one time resident of Moree, so I summarised as best I could my understanding from what I have read in the media and these pages.

I will not judge or assume anything about you, but I agree the whole situation is disappointing to see happen to a company that seemed to be on the way up not so long ago. Unfortunately, it seems aviation runs on razor thin margins, and the only people investing in airlines these days run them into the ground, make for the hills with a sack of $$ and leave the loyal employees to pick up the pieces and rebuild their lives. The QANTAS group through Eastern Australia Airlines had a reliable, local and proven track record in Moree, and in the end, the awarding of the tender to Brindabella benefitted neither the community or the airline, but I'll speculate that someone in management got a good deal out of it.

[BNEA320]

QF in trouble, but does that include Qantaslink?


Brindabella are not the only ones in trouble.

[Propstop]

wheredidwhogo,
You have made too many assumptions, but I do not know who either of you are; nor do I care.
There have been comments made and there have been assessments made and here you are saying that Cleared Visual is just a cleaner.
Has it not occurred to you (you with a masters in aviation obviously and with 50 years experience) that many people have a valid point of view which should be taken on their merits; as you expect yours to be as well.
My quals to comment: I have been an LAME for 47+ years and in this industry all my life as I grew up on an airport where my Father was a pilot and ATC.
Please accept all viewpoints as valid unless you can prove otherwise and start to smell the roses as they smell better than your own posterior.
Please accept the fact that maybe the current airline may not be serving Moree as well as all may wish but possibly the previous airline may not have been doing the same; or simply put, just local politics.

[Tidbinbilla]

Let's keep personalities out of it.

Cleared Visual's contributions are as valid as anyone else's.

[BNEA320]

is that true ?

[FlareHighLandLong]

Not sure about fully grounded. There has been a full fleet parked at cb for days, and there has been the odd one or two getting airborne.

[Tidbinbilla]

We took off behind a landing J41 on Thursday :)

[OpsNormal]

There are a few of their aircraft still in the air - a J41, a Metro and (as far as I am aware, which may be incorrect if it hasn't come out of the maint it went into early in the week) a J32. From what I am told the crew are still being paid - big thumbs up for that one: :ok: , but I fear a great deal of damage has been done to the brand, so to speak.

I do hope that they can recover from this. The world wasn't neccessarily built on small independents giving it a go, but it sure is a nicer place for their efforts.... :D

[Fieldmouse]

One involves a buyout and re-badge and the other implies that some vultures are circling and are ready to cherry pick the best routes. C'mon. Someone out there must know.

[Copythisnumberdown]

SW was sniffing around a couple of weeks ago speaking to Management...There's a good match...old aircraft mixed with even older Dash 8 's ...

Think sitting back and watching what happens is the smarter alternative !

[Horatio Leafblower]

The world wasn't neccessarily built on small independents giving it a go

...yes it was.

Don Kendell. Max Hazelton. Jeff Boyd. (You in the back -Yes you Ops Normal - stop laughing). Old mate at Belmont. Old mate at Tamworth. Peter Collings. David Miller. Connellan. Hudson fkn Fysh for god's sake.

The Australian airline industry WAS built on the independent bloke and he built it to the stage where he was then worth eating to the big bloke.

Story of all Australian industry really.

NURSE! :yuk:

[OpsNormal]

Oh you reprobate..... :ouch:

Whilst imparting my verbal caning (please Sir, may I have another.... :E ), you forgot probably the most important one to a dearly departed family member - Reginald.

Have no idea why I wrote "neccessarily" when I originally though to write "completely", meaning more to do with this age of large conglomerates. My bad, fair cop.

[Wally Mk2]

Whilst in the early days of flying here in Oz the backbone of aviation was indeed started by independents but it's not the case these days that was a very diff era. Back then there where opportunities, hope & a growing economy where aviation was needed & indeed flourished, the need now is still there that's for sure even more so due population expansion since those early days but that's all as it's a totally diff world we live in now compared to the Don, Max & even the Reg days fore Eg, those guys have long since gone so to speak as well as the opportunities they had.

There's no money in aviation these days here in Oz we are seeing that more so than ever, yes indeed nurse, where's the nurse !:sad:


Wmk2

[Jack Ranga]

There would be Wal if operators quoted based on paying their employees award wages, fixed & variable costs based on a regulator who's legislated responsibility is to foster aviation. :ok:

[Wally Mk2]

.................actually the reverse JR if the operators charged to cover costs & some margin for profit what's left of this ugly industry would die off almost completely as flying is very expensive now even with so much undercutting, I mean who's making squillions here in Oz at the moment anyway with such cheap ridiculous fares?

Hope yr well there JR, see you on the other side:ok:


Wmk2

[Jack Ranga]

Wal, the regulator plays their part in how much this service costs. It will/would be virtually impossible to make money in most segments of aviation with CASA the way they are.

If a business cannot make a profit after paying it's employees, covering it's fixed & variable costs etc it should not be in business, full stop. Let the industry collapse, it's the only way CASA will be held to account. When they've destroyed it maybe some common sense will come into the equation?

You saw first hand when you got shafted, who benefits from this? If the RFDS pulled up stumps and said to the government 'can't do this anymore, see ya later' then the morons who took it over went the same way, what do you reckon would happen?

I'm good old mate, you won't be talking to me til you do Melbourne-Canberra! Have a good one

[TBM-Legend]

A big challenge for regional services is the cost structure and low volume of pax. The pax complain that they can buy a ticket from TVL to MEL cheaper than TVL to ISA. I wonder why?

The regulatory compliance for little guys pretty much mimics the big guys. Again more big $$$$ to pay.:{

[Horatio Leafblower]

Let the industry collapse, it's the only way CASA will be held to account. When they've destroyed it maybe some common sense will come into the equation?

Yeah right. I'm sure there'll be riots and looting when the GA industry collapses.

Just slightly less of a ripple than the car-building industry disappearing today.

Market forces, they'll say. :suspect:

[sillograph]

Well considering we are coming off a high in a business sense, and even the majors look like having a horror year ahead. This situation may just be a small snapshot of what to expect going forward.

Really if the majors can't make a single dollar profit what hope does the mid tier operator have.

[Wally Mk2]

Oh I agree JR re the regulator adding to the cost of flying, they just add to the hopelessness of it all.

Loved yr comments about if a business can't make a profit after all outgoing expenses where addressed then they shouldn't be in business.................... you just described QF & most other Co's along the same lines.

The loss of the AAV contract was all about money as we know JR.

Doubt we'll be heading back to CB anytime soon buddy, that's a high yield destination full of 'hot air' hangeroners whom expect service, something our Co can't even spell!:-)



Wmk2

[Jack Ranga]

Well, I don't believe for a minute that Qantas can't pay it's expenses, wages etc. This bull**** has been manufactured over 5 years. The evidence is there to see, fact is it suits all the big players objectives to destroy it and rebuild it.

As far as GA goes, in it's present form, it's a sewer & should be put out of it's misery. If it wasn't for Experimental, flying would not be do-able on my part!

[Horatio Leafblower]

Master of the sweeping generalisation, aren't you? :suspect:

[Jack Ranga]

What are the sweeping generalisations I'm making? I'll address them individually if you like.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Let's take it somewhere else (this aint about Brindabella), and start here:

As far as GA goes, in it's present form, it's a sewer & should be put out of it's misery.

[Jack Ranga]

The majority of employers in GA pay under award wages. The award wage is below the average wage. The award is not a liveable wage. So how is anybody expected to live on below award wages?

That's the first point you could respond to :ok:

[Jack Ranga]

The regulatory reform process has taken 20 years & over 200 million dollars, something the kiwis have done in a couple of years and a coupla mil. These so called reforms have had a major impact on GA, who's had to pay for this? We have.

[Horatio Leafblower]

The majority of employers in GA pay under award wages.

Sweeping statement again :=

[Jack Ranga]

I've had 2 close friends involved in serious safety occurrences, ongoing occurrences with 'major' GA players. One of those companies has gone down, the other is still operating. We all know what this chap does and how he operates, gotta be a bit careful here but if I was having a beer with you you'd agree on the sewer bit.

P.S. I should add, both of these blokes left the industry. One of them had spent ten years building his career, ATPL's, left school at year 10 so went back to night school and did physics, English etc. Paid for all of his endo's, ratings & endorsements, had all the requirements for entry to any airline in Australia. Boom, along comes the cadet ship train (cos there's a pilot shortage apparently). Yep, GA, work hard and the rewards will come ;)

[Jack Ranga]

Sham contracting.

[Jack Ranga]

Sweeping statement but TRUE :ok:

[Horatio Leafblower]

Mate:

Sham contracting is illegal.

Paying less than award is illegal.

If your mates are happy to put up with this to get ahead in their career, what else are they willing to do that's illegal? :ugh:

Getting paid an "apprentice" wage while you are young and learning the ropes is normal. The world doesn't owe you $100k. And if you paid for all your own endorsements and flogged your guts out in GA and never got anywhere, maybe its cos you're a cockhead. :*

[hiwaytohell]

The majority of employers in GA pay under award wages

It depends on how you define GA.

But if you look at;

The FIFO operators; The business jet operators both private and commercial; Turboprop operators excluding the regional airlines.. (including the likes of RFDS, Cobham etc); The major flights schools (by numbers produced) like CSWAFC, AAPA, AAofA, UNSW, OAA;. Turbine helicopter operators; Helicopter flying schools;

Collectively these employ the majority in GA. Most, if not all, of these pay the award or better!

We should not confuse the few operators who exploit low time pilots, with those that do not hire low time pilots but pay entitlements. Not withstanding many of those that exploit low time pilots are also giving them a start that they would not have gotten elsewhere.

Yes a sweeping statement!

But as this thread was about Brindabella, I do not think there is any suggestion they were not paying award.

[Jack Ranga]

Touching a raw nerve HL? And don't 'mate' me sunshine ;) I'm not your mate.

And he's not a cockhead, pretty good bloke actually. He paid for what you would have paid the same for CPL, ME-CIR etc, he left his job when the rip-off started & his accommodation bills were not being paid, pretty general assumption that you made wasn't it? That he was working for under the award, ya f@ckwit ;)

[Tidbinbilla]

Well, this is going well, ladies :ugh: Take a few days off to cool off.

Meanwhile - let's hear about Brindabella. :)

[Sarcs]

Ok moving right along...:rolleyes:

Although not directly relevant to Brindabella but perhaps a link/final straw for a lot of smaller NSW regional towns (and sorry if this has already been mentioned):confused::ToR released for regional aviation inquiry
By Catherine Clifford
Updated Mon 9 Dec 2013, 6:44am AEDT
http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/5143162-4x3-340x255.png (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-08/5143162)Photo: Nationals' MLC, Rick Colless, Chair of the Standing Committee on State Development, who's chairing the Regional Aviation Inquiry. (Photo: Courtesy www.parliament.nsw.gov.au) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-08/5143162)

Map: Tamworth 2340 (http://maps.google.com/?q=-31.0921,150.9279(Tamworth%202340)&z=5)

Terms of Reference for an inquiry into regional air services in New South Wales have been released.
Nationals' MLC, Rick Colless, will chair the investigation, which is being conducted by the Standing Committee on State Development.
He says the aim of the inquiry is to secure more reliable and comprehensive passenger services to and from regional centres.
Rick Colless says too many towns have lost their air services and that situation has got to change.
"The model that we're working on at the moment is failing and if we continue to apply that same model then things are going to continue to get tougher for those airlines," he said.
"So, if we can put in place a better model for service delivery and then encourage the air industry to participate in that, hopefully, we'll come to some positive outcomes."
Rick Colless says the Committee will look at the financial viability of regional carriers, their access to Sydney Airport, landing fees, impacts on towns that lose an airline, as well as the potential to develop better air services in the Bush.
He says the inquiry is not a 'witch hunt' to find poor-performing carriers, but to find long-term solutions.
"What we want to get out of this inquiry is a more reliable and a more comprehensive regular passenger transport service to and from regional centres in NSW and, while the Tamworths, Waggas and Dubbos will always have a regular passenger service, it's the smaller centres that are doing it tough."
Rick Colless says he'll convene the first meeting of the Inquiry committee this week.
:ok:

[puff]

CASA grounds Brindabella Airline fleet after maintenance system breach | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/casa-grounds-brindabella-airline-fleet-after-maintenance-system-breach/story-fnii5s3x-1226781958127)

[Sarcs]

CAsA standard MO for this time of the year!!:{ It is all in the timing...:ugh:

News.com:
AVIATION authorities have grounded the fleet of a regional NSW airline after discovering it didn't follow correct maintenance procedures.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) grounded four of Brindabella Airline's Jetstream aircraft in November and on Thursday ordered the company's remaining six planes pulled from service so they could be assessed.

Brindabella last month reported to CASA several planes had been "over run" for about a year, meaning they hadn't been checked or had parts replaced according to strict schedules set by manufacturers.

"That schedule of maintenance is designed to make sure that important maintenance is done at the right time, parts are replaced before they wear out and inspections are done on components and areas of the aircraft," CASA spokesman Peter Gibson told AAP.

Two of the aircraft initially taken for maintenance review have since been assessed by CASA and cleared to fly.

After the first series of inspections, CASA took a closer look at the fleet.
"That has led us to find there have been over runs in other maintenance requirements on other aircraft," Mr Gibson said.

A review of all maintenance during the past year will now be conducted by Brindabella, who must then demonstrate to CASA that their planes have been serviced according to schedule before being allowed in the air again.

"(We want) to make sure that everything in terms of maintenance that should have been done to those aircraft over the past 12 months has been done," Mr Gibson said.

Brindabella Airlines operates out of several regional areas including Moree, Narrabri, Tamworth and Newcastle, CASA said.
Maximum impact for maximum intimidation...hmm however this time around it would appear that the State Gov boys'n'gals have already trumped them...:D:Brindabella issued a 'Show cause' notification (http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2013/12/03/3904108.htm)

By Kelly Fuller (http://www.abc.net.au/profiles/content/s2278698.htm?site=newengland)
The service hasn't been acceptable, on the other side of it, there is probably not a lot of people lining up to come and fill the space.

The Nationals MP for Barwon, Kevin Humphries has revealed the NSW Government has issued a 'Show cause' notification for the troubled regional airline Brindabella.

For the last fortnight, delayed and cancelled flights have caused angst and anxiety for commuters in and out of Moree, Narrabri and Tamworth.
Commuters in Moree have created a facebook page to keep each other informed about changes to flights.

Mr Humphries said the airlines performance hasn't been acceptable.
"Clearly hasn't been good enough,
"Initially it did a good job, but it was clear two months ago they were over committing after taking on additional routes .... like the Tamworth to Brisbane .... and charter routes for mining companies into Narrabri."

He said the Department of Transport and the Minister has issued a 'Show Cause' notification to the airline.

" ... to explain why it should maintain its licenses and a second notification on a remediation program. This week the airlines task is the have the operation into Moree back to normal."

He said the contract could be revoked if the airline fails to meet the requirements of the 'Show Cause' notification, but he said the carrier could pull out with only a couple of weeks notice.

"I've probably been the most affected of anybody in terms of accessing regular service"

He also expressed disappointment in the tender process and a failure by the Department to consult further with the community before the contract was provided.

"The Minister is very well aware of my concerns over that process and I can guarantee it wouldn't happen again to me or anyone else"

Mr Humphries says initial due diligence was done on Brindabella's finances, but he is aware some of the airlines bills have not been paid in the region in relation to landing fees and fuel.

"This week is an operative point."

He said Nationals MLC, Rick Colless would be heading up a Regional Airline Inquiry.
You can listen to the Morning Shows interview with Kevin Humphires on SoundCloud. (https://soundcloud.com/#abcnsw/nationals-mp-kevin-humphries)
:E:E I know..I know they can still do charter but their gravy train had officially ended, so pretty much a wet lettuce approach from the 'Untouchables'!:D

Addendum: From Ben - NSW regional Brindabella’s Jetstreams grounded by CASA (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/12/13/nsw-regional-brindabellas-jetstreams-grounded-by-casa/)

[Kharon]

This is where the shades of grey appear; if (IF) the BBA engineering process is anything like their operating practices, it's no wonder things are 'confused'. The severely CASA influenced SOP make a meal of the simplest routine procedures, the PIC almost needing permission in triplicate to turn on the bloody wipers. Although, I can't imagine Jeff Boyd allowing that to happen on the engineering side, far too much nouse.

So, once again CASA strike at Christmas; we should be able to sit back, secure in the knowledge that they have got it right. Maintenance which has been overlooked will be done and the aircraft will be returned to service fully fit. The tragedy is, can anyone any longer believe them ?, have they cried wolf too many times ? and set far to may precedents for reasonable doubt to be credible? Are the 'alleged' heinous crimes in fact minor errors parlayed into "safety concerns"?; or, is the CASA cause just and BBA have been naughty? If they have indeed been 'truly naughty', there is a case against the operational management, who do not live in a vacuum and must, by default be at least cognisant of the maintenance details and airworthiness status of the fleet they are responsible for operating.

The manner in which CASA handle this highly volatile situation demands close scrutiny.

Ben Sandilands at Crikey – Here (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/12/13/nsw-regional-brindabellas-jetstreams-grounded-by-casa/) – asking some of the tough love questions.

[Snatch]

If you speak to the Aeropelican boys & girls they will tell you the calibre of the Business Air Holdings team that were running Aeropelican from 2009 onwards.

THis is the team that negotiated the buy-out of Brindabella and the subsequent merger.

This is the team that scheduled 5 aeroplanes worth of flying when the fleet only totalled 5 aeroplanes.

THis is the team that sprung complex operational changes - such as the Aeropelican Brisbane base - on the Operations team with 6 weeks notice because they didn't trust the operations team with commercial-in-confidence information. The operations team read about it over their cornflakes in the morning and spent the next 6 weeks busting their balls because the Commercial team had already loaded the fares in the system and advertised the route.

There have been more than 30 flights cancelled to/from Narrabri since April and Moree and all the other ports are similar.

The management never engage with the staff and treat them with contempt; At the moment they will not give pilots or the Union any information and will not even answer or return phone calls.

Jeff Boyd sold hi share out many months ago, I am told - he could see this coming.

The CASA-haters here will bleat on about how it all happened just before Xmas etc etc etc but this was always going to happen -the writing was on the wall 3 years ago. :ugh:

[tmpffisch]

CASA Haters, Brindabella started and set the time on this one, they approached CASA leading up to Xmas.

[SlapUpJob]

Brindabella Airlines have been instructed by CASA to carry out a maintenance review on 6 out of the airlines 10 aircraft. This work will undoubtedly result in some disruption within our network. Brindabella look forward to restoring scheduled services very shortly and apologise to any of its loyal customers who may have been affected.
Further updates will made on the news page of the Brindabella Airlines website during the course of today.
Flights scheduled to operate today and during the course of this weekend have not been affected.

How does this work?
Flights scheduled to operate today and during the course of this weekend have not been affected.

Pretty big rescue operation to mount with no warning, promising no delays over the next few days with next to no fleet. Who knows more?

How close to the wind is the company sailing financially? This has to be hurting.

[Kharon]

There you go Tidy Bin, viable information – as requested. I acknowledge the brick bats – but if you don't ask the question, how will you ever get the answer. Never had any doubts about the integrity of operations, crew or Jeff Boyd, just the rest of it; why the sudden urge to come clean?.

CASA Haters, Brindabella started and set the time on this one, they approached CASA leading up to Xmas.

Mea culpa etc. Hope it all pans out for the best.

[Going Nowhere]

There's four Brindy aircraft operating today.

VH-TAG ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHTAG)
VH-OTD ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHOTD)
VH-XNE ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHXNE)
VH-XNF ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHXNF)

[Max Tow]

Very sad. Assume the current difficulties at the owner's other ops at bmi regional in the UK won't have helped - certainly won't be much spare cash to invest, and no doubt even less time to devote to these issues.

[Sarcs]

Couple of interviews recorded on MP3 for those interested in downloading..;):

Peter Gibson from CASA (http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/local/newengland/201312/r1215255_15867429.mp3)

Nationals MP for Barwon, Kevin Humphries (http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/local/newengland/201312/r1215259_15867431.mp3)

[Blue Coyote]

Max Tow

I'm in the UK and have been working with BMI Regional and have also had dealings with Brindabella in the last 12 months. I'd be interested to know what you think the problems are at BMI regional as they are paying the bills and no-one else seems to be mentioning a problem there. Brindabella are definitely not paying their bills at the moment.

Cheers

[RU4Real]

Appears its all over now.

Thanks to all the Aeroduck crew, you have stood proud throughout.

Last person please turn the lights off

[TWOTBAGS]

Yep, its done.

XNE is in TMW sked for BNE now planned back to CBR, even on flight aware.

A sad day for all really, Brindys had the potential to be something great. I wonder how Jeff & Lara must feel watching the company they built up be driven into the ground by the new owners.

[RU4Real]

Sad Sad Day,

How can XNE crew fly the aircraft back to CBR safely.

The are shattered with the news.

For all involved stay safe

[Fieldmouse]

Skytrans salivating right now. AOC in place and northern nsw ripe for the picking.

[RU4Real]

any takers for NTL-SYD routes::sad:

[BPA]

If it is all over and Skytrans picks up the routes from BNE, hopefully they will take the Brindabella crews as well. Regarding NTL-SYD, I think REX will just increase their flights, if the demand is there.

Such a shame to see a company that Jeff and Lara had built from scratch end this way.

[ihavelotsofquestions]

Does anyone have any actual confirmation that it is all over and the doors are shut?

Just looking for the final word on it.

Thanks

[RU4Real]

Keep your eye on news services.

Announcement very soon:{

[fritzandsauce]

Can't make a booking on their site even for Apr 2014

[ihavelotsofquestions]

I realize maintenance was lax, but does anyone else think CASA has a lot to answer for? Just wondering....feels a bit bullish that's all.

[Up-into-the-air]

Ben Sandilands has the details:

NSW regional Brindabella's turbo-props grounded by CASA | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/12/13/nsw-regional-brindabellas-jetstreams-grounded-by-casa/)

also look at the Regional Inquiry launched by the NSW Legislative Council Committee System (http://vocasupport.com/?p=2650)

and the casa stuff, without any reference to a "Show Cause"

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Brindabella Airlines maintenance reviews (http://casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_101864)

[TWOTBAGS]

As it all comes unraveling, dont the rats go running.

CEO & CFO departed late last night back to the UK....... nice to see the intestinal fortitude fellas.

Korda Mentha had them on a day to day approval basis and could not contact them this morning...... surprise surprise.

[TeeTail]

All services temporarily suspended...
Beginning of the end??

This posted on the Brindabella Airlines Website:


BRINDABELLA AIRLINES - TEMPORARY SUSPENSION OF SERVICES

Brindabella Airlines regret to advise that it will temporarily suspend operations with immediate effect. In the interim Brindabella Airlines will not accept any further reservations and all services have been cancelled until further notice.
Brindabella Airlines sincerely regret the concern and inconvenience this action will cause to its customers.
Further updates will be provided on the news section of this website on Sunday 15th December 2013 at 4pm
CANBERRA 1300HRS SATURDAY 14 DECEMBER 2013

[teggun]

What's going to happen to the SY - MOR service is QLINK going to resume the service again?


Not sure why they were taken off it in the first place.

[mooncheese]

Very sad day indeed. This has been coming for a while now. I'm surprised they lasted this long. No surprises with the CEO and CCO fleeing the country - Snakes the both of them. Wouldn't trust a word that came out of either of their mouths. Anyone looted the office in CBR yet? ;)

[metrodashbrazconkie]

Where is CASAs consistency??

I know of a turboprop operator over here who deserves to be shut down for maintenance indiscretions, and CASA are aware of them. :p

[TBM-Legend]

Why would Skytrans hire those crews. The routes out of Brisbane are problematic in money making terms . A dash 8 is not cheaper to run than a J41.

[outnabout]

From (http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/planes-grounded-fears-for-brindabella-air-20131213-2zba6.html) the Sydney Morning Herald:


There are fears regional NSW carrier Brindabella Airlines could be in a precarious financial position now that eight of its 10 aircraft are grounded by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) for maintenance reviews.
Commonwealth Bank of Australia has a fixed and floating charge over the airline's assets and forensic accounting firm KordaMentha is understood to be closely monitoring the situation.
Brindabella has licences to operate as the monopoly carrier on key regional NSW routes providing services between Sydney and the towns of Cobar, Moree, Mudgee, Narrabri and winter-only services to Cooma.
The Canberra-based airline's owners, Business Air Holdings, have not lodged accounts with the corporate regulator in recent years.
Qantas Airways last month revoked a codeshare with Brindabella after CASA initially grounded four of its Jetsream planes because engine inspections were overdue. Two of those aircraft are now back in service, but CASA on Thursday grounded a further six Jetstream and Metroliner planes.
Transport for NSW said it was working on alternative transport arrangements for communities impacted by action taken by CASA including additional NSW TrainLink coach services between affected communities and other regional airports.
"[The CASA] action is likely to have significant impact on the airline's schedule on licensed routes," a Transport for NSW spokeswoman said on Friday.
She said Transport for NSW had formally requested Brindabella address concerns surrounding the provision of air services as outlined in its air licence.
Brindabella on Friday said the additional inspections ordered by CASA would "undoubtedly result in some disruption" in its network.
"Brindabella look forward to restoring scheduled services very shortly and apologise to any of its loyal customers who may have been affected," the airline said.
It added flights scheduled to operate on Friday and over the weekend had not been affected. The airline has cancelled dozens of flights in recent weeks and temporarily suspended its services between Sydney and Orange, which is not a monopoly route.


Read more: Planes grounded: fears for Brindabella Air (http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/planes-grounded-fears-for-brindabella-air-20131213-2zba6.html#ixzz2nQOjbDa2)

[GADRIVR]

Twobags....... Is your info accurate and are you positive about that?!?

[Wizofoz]

'Tis done-

A notice on the Brindabella website reads:
Brindabella Airlines regret to advise that it will temporarily suspend operations with immediate effect. In the interim Brindabella Airlines will not accept any further reservations and all services have been cancelled until further notice.

Brindabella Airlines sincerely regret the concern and inconvenience this action will cause to its customers.

Further updates will be provided on the news section of this website on 15th December 2013 at 4pm.

Flights from/to Sydney Airport, Newcastle Airport & Brisbane Airport from/to Camberra, Newcastle, Tamworth, Cobar, Orange, Moree, Mudgee, Narrabri, Snowy Mountains, Coffs Harbour by Brindabella Airlines (http://www.brindabellaairlines.com.au/)

Damn shame it took a historic company like "The Duck" with it.

[hiwaytohell]

Very sorry for the staff, I know a few that have been through this before.

I understand that as recently as a month ago they still had lifelines available to them, however the Pommie owners/managers were either too ignorant to know they were drowning or too arrogant to take the options.

Interesting article in the SMH from 10 July 1981

The Sydney Morning Herald - Google News Archive Search (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=--NYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=VecDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5860%2C2940941)

[TBM-Legend]

Interesting article in the SMH from 10 July 1981



Nothing has changed except the regulator and airports have created an even worse environment. We now have another two airline policy...

[mooncheese]

:{

BRINDABELLA AIRLINES RECEIVERS AND MANAGERS (http://www.brindabellaairlines.com.au/news/brindabella-airlines-receivers-and-managers-1387088124.html)


BRINDABELLA AIRLINES RECEIVERS AND MANAGERS

David Winterbottom and Sebastian Hams of KordaMentha were today appointed Receivers and Managers of the Canberra-based regional airline Brindabella. The group consists of five companies including Brindabella Airlines Pty Ltd, Aeropelican Air Services Pty Ltd, M/V Purchasing Company Pty Ltd, Business Air Holdings Pty Ltd and Trand Holdings Pty Ltd (‘Brindabella’) (‘the Group’). This follows the Group’s decision yesterday to ground all aircraft not already grounded by the recent CASA directive and to cease all passenger flights.
Mr Winterbottom advised that Brindabella would no longer be accepting bookings, and all further flights will be suspended indefinitely. Mr Winterbottom also indicated the Receivers would be calling for immediate expressions of interest in the sale of the business, however the business would not continue to operate whilst the sale process is conducted.
Mr Winterbottom said that Qantas had commenced providing additional services on some of Brindabella’s usual routes and the Receivers were in urgent discussions with the NSW Government and regulatory authorities regarding sourcing other replacement services.
Mr Winterbottom added: “Given the approaching Christmas and New Year period we will be working very hard to minimise the inconvenience to customers and importantly, enable alternative travel options.” Brindabella, formed in 1994, operated up to 250 sectors a week, with services from Canberra, Sydney and Brisbane to regional destinations including Newcastle, Cobar, Coffs Harbour, Moree, Mudgee, Narrabri, Newcastle, Orange and Tamworth.
It has 140 employees and operates five US-built Metroliners and seven British-built Jetstreams. Recently Brindabella have experienced significant maintenance and regulatory issues which have impacted aircraft availability and services.
Brindabella Airlines senior management are working with KordaMentha and are assisting with any requests made of them.
Mr Winterbottom said it was too early to predict the ultimate future of Brindabella or to be precise about the reasons for the Group’s problems, however the competitive nature of the airline industry, regulatory and maintenance issues and the financial pressures this would have placed on the airline would certainly be significant factors.
Brindabella customers can find more information in the creditor section of Home (http://www.kordamentha.com), including contact numbers for further enquiries.
end_of_the_skype

[skkm]

...and in come the receivers.

Vale Brindabella.

[falconx]

No press conference at 4pm today as advised yesterday...

[Up-into-the-air]

Well Korda Mentha certainly is not coy about this one:

Mr Winterbottom said it was too early to predict the ultimate future of Brindabella or to be precise about the reasons for the Group’s problems, however the competitive nature of the airline industry, regulatory and maintenance issues and the financial pressures this would have placed on the airline would certainly be significant factors.My bold!!

[GADRIVR]

Be interesting to see if the usual suspects blame CASA for this mess!!!
Anybody with any aviation business nouse could see this one coming for a while.
For once, I'd like to see either real businessmen or management with relevant experience operate an aviation business, not circus clowns!
Horatio LB..... handing over!

[RU4Real]

Isn't it ironic that Korda Mentha get a second bite of the cherry with Aeroduck.

So sad indeed, all the good honest crew and guys at the duck slogged their guts
out to get it back up and running after the Ansett collapse.

You must be all gutted tonight.

Have a beer and be proud of what you all achieved.
:D

[Raider1]

Announced today. This Canberra Times link gives a summary:
Brindabella Airlines put into receivership - flights suspended (http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/brindabella-airlines-put-into-receivership--flights-suspended-20131215-2zf52.html)


The receiver is calling for expressions of interest to purchase the airline.

Staff will be advised of their fate on Monday.
:ugh:

[OpsNormal]

CASA.... Something to answer for? I doubt it very much. This was the result of a long chain of events that was set in motion in 2010 when Aeropelican was restructured with a new puppeteer and a whole new ensemble of marionettes were parachuted into the non-flying upper management roles.

They retained a couple of high calibre C+T staff and a good core of experienced crews but the rot began to creep in with perceived secrecy and a number of people elevated well beyond their competence level who actively cultivated a "them and us" attitude as it was to their liking and purpose. Had a bad feeling about the way it was being run right from the beginning after the great pineappling of 2010…

BAH then bought into Brindabella and transplanted said marionettes. Continual speculation after we were told of the merged workforce as to what the future might hold for the stable Newcastle employee group was never adequately addressed apart from "trust us, she'll be right..." The drop in pay (and a big question mark over the bond) to fly a larger type was, for some (including myself) unpalatable.

Jeff, I think history will show he was firmly pushed by a non-sympathetic business "partnership"...

... if (IF) the BBA engineering process is anything like their operating practices, it's no wonder things are 'confused'. The severely CASA influenced SOP make a meal of the simplest routine procedures, the PIC almost needing permission in triplicate to turn on the bloody wipers...

Rubbish. The Metro SOPs (I never flew the J41) were stringent and a little complex when I started with them, but were soon whittled down to where they needed to be. Like you Kharon I have also operated metros for other operators and the Brindy SOPs were in no way greatly differing to any other operator and IMHO were actually quite a step above some, especially as many of the F/Os that joined on the metro were flying their first pressurised multi turbine "multi crew" SOPs with that company. The way the FCOM suite was put together made it less of a saga to get a highly polished performance out of a relative new hire as long as they read the book....

The Brindy CP was always there and available if anyone had an issue that needed his input and is one person in this industry I am grateful I have worked for, along with Jeff, Lara and most of the old Brindys crews and at the good folk at the Duck: Paul, Em, Brian, Waz etc etc. :ok:

Raider, staff have been told to return all company owned gear already. Meetings with recievers today.

[Kharon]

ON – "Rubbish. The Metro SOPs (I never flew the J41) were stringent and a little complex when I started with them, but were soon whittled down to where they needed to be".

No offence meant, just stirring the pot. I am pleased to hear you claim that good sense eventually prevailed– I was working with old data and simply wished to make the point that overly complex, rigid management systems can make a good starting place for unintended holes in the cheese.

ON –"Like you Kharon I have also operated metros for other operators and the Brindy SOPs were in no way greatly differing to any other operator and IMHO were actually quite a step above some," etc.

I beg to differ, however this is not the place for debate on semantic, pedantic SOP or the lack thereof:- nor the endless regurgitation of the AFM within the FCOM, rendering both nugatory. I will not to mention expanded procedure being used as operating 'law', rather than a part of training to reduce workload. The methodology for cooking engines, bogging and un-bogging aircraft is for each flight ops department to determine. This, whether the 'experienced' crews think (or realise) it's all bollocks – or not, is immaterial to the discussion here.

We don't know when the maintenance issues were first noted.

We don't know what the maintenance issues were.

We don't know who was notified of what, when or by whom.

Were these issues an AD or series of AD which went through to the keeper?, were they different multiple issues related to individual airframes? We may never know, and I dare say irrelevant now.

Many times been present when 'management' was notified a (singular) error had been discovered; the aircraft grounded until maintenance was complete, aircraft returned to service. I have even been there when the CASA Airworthiness boys were informed of the error (singular) and provided the 'fix' and root cause had been correctly identified and the system modified to prevent a possible reoccurrence, there never was any insurmountable problems raised from the CASA end. In fact they were a positive element on all those occasions, as helpful, sensible and practical as one could expect of a 'good' regulator.

At face value, this appears to have been a somewhat larger problem, i.e. chronic, across a fleet and all that entails. At the moment it is only one curiosity that that CASA appears to have allowed an extended 'period of grace'; but without facts, who dare comment. All too easy to say 'protected species', or 'management stuff up', but once again without facts it's pure speculative bollocks.

So, how about some data, rather than management (or CASA bashing) to work with. Who knows, perhaps there may be something learned from the history of this past event.

No hope – right. – Yawn - exit discussion without looking back.

[BNEA320]

suspect some routes are apparently so low yielding that no one will even bother looking at them.

[stiffwing]

I note that qlink have stated that they will step in and offer discounted fares to help out stranded pax as much as they can
I spose VB will as well. I mean, they reckon they want to be the airline that people turn to in times of need......waiting for the announcement .. Waiting..

[BNEA320]

these would have to be higher than Brindabella were selling or why bother.

QF are in enough trouble without wasting more funds.

Small operators with much lower costs would probably be the only ones who could do some of the very thin Brindabella routes or could Rex do some at a profit ?

With mining contracts disappearing could Corporate Air (Saab 340's etc.) or even Alliance with some of their F50 be interested ?

[Up-into-the-air]

I wonder if there will be a pop-up on the scene straight away??

[Trojan1981]

I've had little to do with Brindabella, so have nothing to add, but Im curious about the Aeropelican side of things.

Why did Aeropelican give up Belmont and change types, before going to Brindy? I know there was a change of ownership, but I was lead to believe that the operations were profitable in the Twotter/Bandit/Belmont days.

[RU4Real]

Concerning Ducks old home.

Runway Length, sailing masts at the end of the runway in the channel,

New aircraft types and runway length

New regulations for Security of airfields,

Money, Money and more money.

Unfortunately any potential buyer of Aeropelican had more interest in the land value of the airport and redevelopment potential

It was a great operation and the Airport certainly reminded you of the 'good old days', some would say the 'classic' days of aviation.:ok:

[TBM-Legend]

Small operators with much lower costs would probably be the only ones who could do some of the very thin Brindabella routes or could Rex do some at a profit ?


What makes you think that the seat/mile costs are lower with a small airline operator? They generally pay top dollar for fuel/landing/parking fees/bank interest rates/insurances etc etc without any real economy of scale. Rex has done well because it was purchased at the right time and money, has a strong capital base and has one type of aircraft [the good old Saab] and is larger enough to have economies of scale.

It will be a big ask for someone to pick up the crumbs and make a profitable business out of this in my opinion. The pax numbers on most of the Brindabella routes are indeed very low which means high fares which means fewer pax!!!!

[Ida down]

One can only feel for the staff, and at Xmas time. Here in Newcastle, its a popular little airline, with great people working for it, and will be sadly missed at Willy. Hopefully for not long.

[Sarcs]

SC from the Australian: Rex chief Lim Kim Hai warns more regional airlines at risk


AUSTRALIA's biggest independent regional carrier has warned of more regional airline failures in an industry in dire straits after six years of "neglect and oppressive policies'' under Labor.


Regional Express executive chairman Lim Kim Hai said the failure of Canberra-based Brindabella Airlines demonstrated the toxicity of an aviation climate that had put regional aviation in danger of irreversible terminal decline.

He called on Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss to deliver the election promises in his aviation action plan, including the reversal of "disastrous policies'' such as carbon tax, reducing compliance costs and reintroduction of the en-route rebate scheme.

"If nothing significant is achieved within the next three months, Brindabella's collapse could well be a precursor of more to come in the regional sector,'' he said. "It would be ironic if the decimation and collapse of regional aviation in Australia took place under the Nationals' watch.''

Travel plans for Brindabella Airlines customers across regional NSW have been thrown into chaos after the airline was placed into receivership and its flights suspended indefinitely yesterday.

The fate of 140 workers at the Canberra-based regional carrier is also uncertain as administrators KordaMentha seek expressions of interest for the troubled airline over the holidays.

The move comes after the aviation safety regulator grounded another six of the airline's turboprop fleet last week for failing to carry out required safety inspections on engines.

The airline operated up to 250 flights using 10 planes to destinations that included Brisbane, Canberra, Cobar, Coffs Harbour, Moree, Mudgee, Newcastle and Sydney.

Brindabella's bad performance in recent months raised the ire of the communities it served and prompted Qantas to suspend its codeshare arrangement last month after four aircraft were grounded because of engine inspection overruns.

Two of those planes were allowed back in the air but last week's decision to ground a further six meant eight of the airline's planes were out of action.

Receiver David Winterbottom said the airline would no longer be accepting bookings and all further flights were cancelled indefinitely while the receivers sought expressions of interest from potential buyers.

Qantas and Virgin Australia have both introduced special relief fares for Brindabella customers and Mr Winterbottom said Qantas had started providing additional services on some Brindabella routes.

Mr Lim said Rex was drawing up plans to provide emergency services to some communities no longer serviced by Brindabella " if and when" Transport NSW removed licensing restrictions. It was also providing its cheapest fares to Brindabella customers.

"Rex will also do its best to alleviate the difficulties and uncertainties of Brindabella staff affected during this festive period,'' he said. "Already we are being inundated by job applications and we will be doing our utmost to confirm job opportunities for interested applicants before Christmas."


So maybe follow the Lib/Nat government's lead and blame it all on the former Labor government..??:E

The National Library of Australia pays tribute to Brindabella:

Farewell Brindabella Air, "a successful regional airline" as reported in Australian Aviation 2005. (https://twitter.com/nlagovau/status/412417511716450304/photo/1)

:{:{

[Horatio Leafblower]

The Metro SOPs (I never flew the J41) were stringent and a little complex when I started with them, but were soon whittled down to where they needed to be.

I have it on good authority that the Engine Failure after T/O on the J41 had TWENTY-SEVEN MEMORY ITEMS.

That is simply outrageous and the morons in CASA who approved it are as bad as the people who put it in the manuals.

...how about sending multi-crew pilots out in a C152 to regain night currency?

Both these companies were doing OK (not magically... but OK) before the foreign agents were inserted :=

[SOPS]

You can't remember 27 memory items, well I assume you can't. List them here.

[boaccomet4]

Befor Aeropeelican took Brindaberlla I percieved Aeropelican as a regional airline offering a very professional, and on time regional airline. I was making money and they enolyed esxpeinced skiled pilots, Then I hear the horror of the two companies merging such that the Aeropelican name would be dropped and the Brindabella name be retained. Aeropelican had a reliable service for many year using twin otters from Blemont and then some greed buyer thought he would move Aeropelican out of Belmont to Wllimamtown airport. The culture at the duck was professional and happy whereas Brindabella never seemed upfront with the staff. I also think the new management were optimising on the LOWER load fractor required to make operations into a country port viable. Another cost was having to send crew to the US to train on the j41 (LARGE OVERHEAD).
Another cost was cadet pilots whose promosition was severely resgtrictec by their lack of flying experience. As for the maintenance well I don't know what happened there. In hindsight it is a pity the much more experienced
Aeropelican had been left alone and maintain its operating standarda and kept well away from Brinbdabella. I think if this had been the case then Aeropelican would still be operation. Maybe they could have snagged thel lucerative Canberra to Newscaste run (always furl and always paid for by government money. I fell really sorry for the ex Aeropelican staff as they had a sober culture before the merger. Wheras Brindabella assays seemed to run on few.

[SpannerTwister]

I took that to mean the there were 27 Stored Faults ?

ST

[VH-FTS]

It is true Skytrans are heading to northern or central NSW in the coming days to announce they'll be taking over some ex-BNE routes?

[falconx]

Might just pull them out of the

[Cactusjack]

It is true Skytrans are heading to northern or central NSW in the coming days to announce they'll be taking over some ex-BNE routes?
What, are they going to buy Brindy out or something?
How can they announce that they are taking over the routes already? Do they have some kind of interim CAsA approval to add those ports onto their AOC forthwith without any sort of assessment? They may have pulled off that trick when Macair folded but surely with an audit just completed and 27 NCN's CAsA won't be too hasty in granting any approvals? Haven't they sold some of their aircraft and made crew redundant? Aren't pilots already churning out maximum hours creating crewing issues at the best of times? Can they fund the additional start up costs? And would Skytrans be willing to agree to an OTP KPI penalty system with the NSW government to ensure some OTP consistency rather than the current shambles?

[Jabawocky]

And would Skytrans be willing to agree to an OTP KPI penalty system with the NSW government to ensure some OTP consistency rather than the current shambles?

Right now the NSW gubbermint has no bargaining chips in the deal. I am not a Skytrans fan at all, but if I were them or anyone else, I would go hard at it and negotiate hard. Actually no…..negotiate is not a word I would be entertaining.

Too much government dis n dat.

Possibly another small part of the problem. I have no idea if that is the case but it would not surprise me.

[Bladeangle]

Rumour has it at least half a dozen Brindies guys have interviews with Rex today.

Wonder how the new Swedes at Rex are going with this warm weather...

[KRUSTY 34]

One door closes, another opens. Hang in there Boys and Girls.

[Typhoon650]

When I was working for the other CBR operation that specialises in charter and ground services, they were making noise about limited RPT ambitions.
Would be a good fit given the location of Brindabella and that they already have a well established maintenance base not too far away, plus some decent under utilised aircraft to throw at it.

[ihavelotsofquestions]

Krusty,

Any chance REX need more than 6 at this stage?

[mooncheese]

Brindabella pilots ask receivers for help on job-related loans (http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/brindabella-pilots-ask-receivers-for-help-on-jobrelated-loans-20131217-2zjj7.html)

Pilots employed by the collapsed Brindabella Airlines have called on the company's receivers to take on liability for personal loans entered into as a condition of employment.
A day after Brindabella temporarily stood down 140 employees, including 70 in Canberra, it has emerged that pilots were required to take out personal loans of as much as $30,000 as return for a service bond for training and expenses.
The loans, issued for flight training in the United States and other expenses, were serviced by the company during their employment as is common in the industry.
Brindabella suspended all flights this week as it struggled with millions of dollars of debt. Receivers KordaMentha were appointed for the company and are seeking a buyer for the airline, founded in Canberra in 1994.
Advertisement <iframe id="dcAd-1-4" src="http://ad-apac.doubleclick.net/N6411/adi/onl.ct.news/news;cat=actnews;ctype=article;pos=3;sz=300x250;tile=4;ord=9 .2637392E7?" width='300' height='250' scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" allowtransparency="true" frameborder="0"> </iframe>
The executive director of the Australian Federation of Air Pilots, Simon Lutton, said he had written to the receivers on Monday asking for the loans to be included as debts of the airline, not individual pilots.
''We're very aware of the issue and are taking it up urgently with the receiver,'' Mr Lutton said.
''We are seeking an undertaking that upon examination of the loan arrangements they will be categorised as a debt of the company and not a personal debt. We haven't yet achieved that but we're looking to have urgent discussions on that basis. They've advised us that they know how important it is and they are looking into it right now and will get back to us shortly.''
Mr Lutton said he hoped the matter could be finalised in coming days but that it was too early to say what outcome would be reached.
Pilots employed by Brindabella Airlines declined to speak publicly as their employment has not been terminated.
A spokesman for KordaMentha said the receivers learned about the concerns on Tuesday and would consider the matter.


Read more: Brindabella pilots ask receivers for help on job-related loans (http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/brindabella-pilots-ask-receivers-for-help-on-jobrelated-loans-20131217-2zjj7.html#ixzz2nmB4r1we)

[Goat Whisperer]

I wish the AFAP luck with that, but if unsuccessful, would the union consider looking after the affected pilots by, say, covering interest only on the training loans for AFAP members? A debt like that could be debilitating when you've just lost what wasn't a high-paying job, and a Jetstream rating isn't worth a lot in Australia right now.

[falconx]

Last I knew corporate air had an RPT AOC

[falconx]

Canberra airport leasing and parking is rediculous hence no GA and corporate airs offsite premises

[waren9]

good luck to the pilots involved.

on the upside jq have just advertised for a big bunch of commands. presumably those f/o's upgraded will need to be replaced…?

[Horatio Leafblower]

I am pretty sure Andrew Major could buy & sell the owner of Goulburn airport 10 times if he wanted to. You don't build a facility like their Goulburn hangar when the airport's future is in doubt...

[TexanPilot]

Would it be possible for the former owners to buy back the company?

[TWOTBAGS]

Yeah Tex, I'm sure that's exactly what Jeff wants...... NOT:{

To be honest, I dont event think they will be able to give it away, given that anyone else who has the capability, either already has the AOC or the equipment.... or both.

The vultures are certainly in a hold longer than your average weeknight at smoka, just waiting for the receiver to chainsaw the place.

[pistinaround]

A handful of incompetents literally destroyed two great little airlines !
Hopefully their day will come when they feel the anguish and sadness that all of the employees of the former Aeropelican and Brindabella now feel just before Christmas.
To all concerned I have my fingers crossed that you all find yourselves in a much happier place this time next year !
Pistin.

[bankrunner]

I was in Griffith a month ago, and according to the local paper there were two unnamed operators sniffing about the place looking at running a YGTH-YMML service, following failed negotiations between the council and another "operator" who proposed to run a service with imaginary Beech 1900s.

Apparently one of the two was Brindabella, but no idea about the other; given Rex got rid of their YGTH-YMML service last year, I doubt it'd be them.

What are the chances this mystery operator, who's apparently in the market to pick up some very thin regional routes like YGTH-YMML would also be looking at some of Brindabella's routes?

[GADRIVR]

To say that there's a bunch of people all joined by a common point of contact in and around regional RPT potential routes with a common background would be accurate I would think!!!!

[Slippery_Pete]

I wish the AFAP luck with that, but if unsuccessful, would the union consider looking after the affected pilots by, say, covering interest only on the training loans for AFAP members? A debt like that could be debilitating when you've just lost what wasn't a high-paying job, and a Jetstream rating isn't worth a lot in Australia right now.

Perhaps the AFAP's time would have been better off trying to shutdown these pay for endorsement scams in the first place.

We all bitch and moan about how Alan Joyce won't invest in Qantas... But then every idiot who comes along to Jetstar is paying him 30k for the privilege of working for him.... And he STILL can't make a profit.

I also hear the AFAP are working with one group of pilots to change cadetship payments which are prohibitive. Here's an idea, if you can't afford it, don't sign up to it.

I really wish the AFAP would focus our money on the big issues, rather than try and bail out a few select individuals who have made bad financial decisions. Paying 30k for a Jetsteam endorsement? Seriously?

[Captahab]

I also hear the AFAP are working with one group of pilots to change cadetship payments which are prohibitive. Here's an idea, if you can't afford it, don't sign up to it.

I really wish the AFAP would focus our money on the big issues, rather than try and bail out a few select individuals who have made bad financial decisions. Paying 30k for a Jetsteam endorsement? Seriously?

Well said.
Too many signing up, getting their two or three bars, joining the feds and then expecting them to save them from the financial debacle they have got themselves into.
:ugh:

[_gazelle_]

You blokes are a disgrace! Have a heart this time of year.. The Brindabella crew didn't pay for their endorsements, merely entered a bond scheme common around the country where if you bail you cough up the dough. Problem with this one is the company bailed & the crew are high and dry up to 30K in the hole with presumably no entitlements. Good luck to all affected :ok:

[waren9]

well, i'd call in to question the wisdom of agreeing to become an unsecured creditor to a company when your salary also comes from the same place. especially if you had to take out a personal loan to do it.

bonds are fine when thats what they are. this was nothing more than employees agreeing to loan the company money in return for a job.

i hope there is something left for them. if nothing else, it'll make a good life lesson.

i wonder if the 30k was the true bonafide cost of that training or if they were doing a jetstar and including a facilitation fee as well as pocketing the gst?

[Slippery_Pete]

You blokes are a disgrace! Have a heart this time of year.. The Brindabella crew didn't pay for their endorsements, merely entered a bond scheme common around the country where if you bail you cough up the dough. Problem with this one is the company bailed & the crew are high and dry up to 30K in the hole with presumably no entitlements. Good luck to all affected


Thanks for labelling us a disgrace. Buying yourself a job is what most on pprune would call a "disgrace", but I digress.

Your post doesn't make sense.

You say they are "30k in the hole" but "crew didn't pay for their endorsements".

Which one is it? Either they crew paid the 30k or Brindabella paid it. It can't be both.

Simples.

[KRUSTY 34]

The way I see it the crews paid for it, but the repayment of the debt deferred in lieu of a return of service. As gazelle says though, if the company folds the crew are the ones left with the debt! but who would have thought that? Dodgy practice which quite frankly should have rung some alarm bells.

Easy to say I know, and probably impossible to fight when it becomes a condition of employment. Lessons, hard lessons. Here's hoping the receivers show some compassion and a level of understanding, especially at this time of year.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Here's hoping the receivers show some compassion and a level of understanding

It's not really for the receivers to show compassion and understanding. When the creditors meet they will decide how the megre pickings are distributed. Considering the company didn't own the aircraft and the route licences have now been cancelled, there are bugger-all assets to sell to pay off the debts. Woodley & Co still own substantial assets in the UK of course :suspect:

I really wish the AFAP would focus our money on the big issues, rather than try and bail out a few select individuals who have made bad financial decisions. Paying 30k for a Jetsteam endorsement? Seriously?

Slippery Pete & Captain Ahab - the pilot didn't pay for the endorsement, the pilot took out the loan and THE COMPANY made the payments. The pilot's salary was never reduced to pay the loan back and the obligation never fell on the pilot UNTIL HE RENEGGED ON HIS UNDERTAKING.

...or the company went bust, which was never in anyone's plans.

Yes we are all wiser now but the AFAP agreed to the scheme so it would be great if the AFAP can help the guys who felt the fear, stepped up, and were let down by Woodley & Co. What's the point of being a union member if the Union lets you fall into a hole and won't help you out of it? :=

Have a heart and put yourself in the shoes of the young pilots, jumping at a regional t/prop job at a time when industry consolidation means there are very few opportunities.

When I was in my 20's, even though the major players owned almost everything there were still individual organisations hiring pilots; I interviewed for Ansett mainline, Eastern, Qantas, Aeropelican, Hazeltons and Kendells in the space of about 6 months in 2000/01 (then Yanda, Country Connection & Ansett all fell over and flooded the market with experienced pilots, etc).

Today of those regionals there is only one left, plus Rex and VARA. Fewer opportunities and the Brindabellican merger then collapse takes out 2 more opportunities.

They took a risk - they backed themselves - it would be nice if we could all now back them too. :D

What do you say, Lawrie? Lennie? Simon?

[waren9]

if afap had any balls they wouldnt have agreed to that. seems to me they say yes to just about anything

[Slippery_Pete]

Okay, so let's get a few things straight then.

1. This wasn't a "bond" arrangement.
2. Like waren9 said, this should NEVER have been endorsed by the AFAP. I'm absolutely flabbergasted if they supported it.
3. If the AFAP did in fact endorse this arrangement, the AFAP should bail out the entirety of the money owed by these pilots for providing stupid advice.
4. The receivers, most likely, won't have a bar of it and will wipe their hands of any responsibility, so expect nothing there.

Despite the fact that the AFAP allegedly supported the scheme, regardless, it is still RIDICULOUS that these pilots essentially personally secured a loan for the company on the premise of buying into a job.

Prostituting yourself to get up the ladder a bit quicker can leave you with a nasty STD. For those who resisted the dangled carrot, and told Brindabella to stick it, good on you.

[bankrunner]

My old man works for a non aviation related organisation next door to YSCB. A few people there have mates at Brindabella. They've organised a Christmas appeal of sorts for the Brindabella staff and most of office has chipped in.

Good to see that community spirit still lives :ok:

[Capt Mo]

I interviewed at the Duck before this new loan scheme replaced the old 5K bond. It was discussed however, as the company was trying to push it through immediately, though it did not come into effect until 6 months or so later with the 2011 EBA.

When I asked questions during the interview about this method of bonding, I was reassured that the only way that I would be liable to pay out the loan was if I resigned within the bond period and that in any other case - ie my employment terminated or the company folded that I would not have to pay for it.

Had I been asked and agreed to undertake such a loan in my own name the plan was to have sought some legal advice before signing to ensure that I would not be liable for circumstances other than resigning within the bond period. Until now, I had assumed that those who took up this loan which was being paid for by the company had some protection against this - but then I never saw the contracts.

This revelation to me adds some fuel to the disgust, disappointment and sadness of the last weeks events. The running of two great companies into the ground, the suspension of all services, being so gutless that senior management left the country that night unable to face their workers who were stood down and left with nothing. The guys and girls - and not just the tech crew that I know but everyone who had a role to play are a hard working and talented bunch and did not deserve it to end like this and are now trying to scramble for work to be able to pay their mortgages and support themselves and families.

I hope that there is some positive outcome, that either a buyer can be found or that whoever takes on the routes can take on as many of the employees left without jobs. Good on Rex for stepping in so quickly to offer some jobs at a time of year where recruitment often slows to a stand still.

What a loss, a kick in the guts for those involved and a real shame for the industry. :sad:

[GADRIVR]

The questions still needs to be asked.
Why did the company go under?
Who was making the decisions?
What was the strategy?
How in Gods name does one pick up two viable (albeit small) aviation companies and within 12 months it turns to crud?!
Why did the CEO bugger off to the UK?
Was it to raise more funds or had the decision been made to close the doors well before Saturday and he had quit?
I've got my thoughts but it would interesting to see others views who've run a business!

[Horatio Leafblower]

If you read above, GADRIVR, there are opinions from at least 1 former Aeropelican Training captain and a middle management type.

They have accurate information on how Brindabellican was murdered.

... might just add that the low-cost carrier model only works when you have a large body of customers used to travelling like sheep.

Treating staff like monkeys and customers like a captive audience will kill any goodwill you previously enjoyed. :ugh:

[ProProp]

How about

- taking on too many routes without proper resources
- the engineering culture - 'sign it off today, we'll look at it next week'
- CASA Part 145 where the pilots can't pick up the problems / maintenance issues
- having to pay big $ to send pilots to Florida to so sim checks

Just a few of the many problems - feel free to add more.

[Jack Ranga]

Well............I reckon I've just about seen it all! Pilots are debtors in the event of the airline collapsing and a union sanctions this? You're kidding right?

Worse still there are clowns willing to sign up for this? And the rest of the pilot community is expected to have sympathy for their actions? You're kidding right?

What a disgusting, immoral way to treat employees and you lot see this as the new normal?

[Square Bear]

I've been bonded for three endorsements, my last was $35,000.

If any of those had needed paying, for whatever the reason, I would never have even thought of approaching the AFAP to take on MY responsibility.

I didn't become a member of the Federation for it to look after my financial decisions, and I don't see it as the responsibility of the Federation to look after the financial decisions that I or others make.

On another note, having been with a company that went under, all flight deck and cabin ended up with great jobs, I have no doubt that you guys from Brindabella will do the same.

Cheers

[ihavelotsofquestions]

"Prostituting yourself to get up the ladder a bit quicker can leave you with a nasty STD. For those who resisted the dangled carrot, and told Brindabella to stick it, good on you."





Quite frankly, an unfair statement as the pilots I knew there HAD the relevant experience. So to a lot of them this was a good job in a home town.

What would you do if you had a wife/ husband, two kids and your on the award in the outback?

Also we are not noting that the contract that was presented took out insurance for just this sort of situation. In the event the company could not make repayments, the pilot is insured.:ugh:


Have a bit of heart!

I wish all the very best to the guys and gals at Brindabella.:ok:

[Slippery_Pete]

Sigh.

So let me get this question you posed straight:
Q: If I were married with two kids and hence had to support my entire family, would I personally secure a 30k loan just to work for a company who obviously are not in a good way because they can't even afford to pay for my training?
A: No friggin way.

There are thousands of pilots flying all around Australia who did exactly what you paint as impossible and un-livable - support a wife and kids on the GA award in the middle of bum-f*** nowhere. And they ended up in good jobs in capital cities without buying into it.

This is the whole problem now. Pilots only are about number 1, and only ever look short term. They want the best job, right now, at any expense, and are willing to walk over someone's grave to get there. End result - crap industry.

I don't personally wish harm on these people, but for God's sake, when are people going to start acting with some responsibility and common sense?

Also we are not noting that the contract that was presented took out insurance for just this sort of situation. In the event the company could not make repayments, the pilot is insured.

Well then what's their problem then? :ugh:

[Goat Whisperer]

I'm not suggesting the AFAP use members' subs to wipe out the pilots' debt, merely that in a goodwill gesture they could cover the interest on those debts until said pilots are back on their feet. Ex gratia.

If the pilot was half way through that period the interest would only be in the vicinity of $1000pa.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Pilots only are about number 1, and only ever look short term.

That's why Aeropelican then Brindy's went down this path - pilots would make an undertaking to stay for a return of service obligation and then (almost immediately) update their application with Virgin or Eastern or Jetstar.

As soon as they were offered an interview, they buggered off. Some of these pilots joined without 500 multi and were ICUS-ed up (at considerable expense) to meet command requirements.

If no pilot had ever renegged on a ROSO, we would not have this situation where businesses have to take steps to protect the investment they made in your training. It's a two-way street :(

[Captahab]

I'm not suggesting the AFAP use members' subs to wipe out the pilots' debt, merely that in a goodwill gesture they could cover the interest on those debts until said pilots are back on their feet. Ex gratia.

If the pilot was half way through that period the interest would only be in the vicinity of $1000pa.

What a load of crap, who's subs do you suggest they use :ugh:

Actually, rethink, I went to the casino last Fri night and lost about $330.
Bugger it, I will ring the AFAP on Monday to see if they will cover my gambling debts too :*

[mooncheese]

I'll throw my 2 cents in and you can do with as you wish.....

Why did the company go under?

A combination of a few factors - poor management (both with the oldFrench/Vietnamese and the new Irish/English combos), lack of discipline onstaff (especially crew), throwing money away (e.g. moved the J41 from BNEto SYD and left 4 cabin crew and about 6 J41 pilots in Brissie on RDOs for about 3months on FULL PAY!!!), low load factors, taking on too many routes withnot enough air craft to service them, or crew for that matter.
And thenobviously lax maintenance on the aircraft which led to CASA grounding the fleet.If you’re not flying then you are not making any money. No cash flow broughteverything to a halt.
Brindy had earned themselves a bad rep with the regionalcommunities for cancelling flights willy-nilly, poor customer service and lackof communication from inexperienced customer service team, under staffedoperations team.



Who was making the decisions?

CEO and CCO. They told everyone exactly what they wanted to hear. Manymeetings behind closed doors. Everyone knew something was up but if you asked,then it was always "so many great things to come - things are going tochange" and it never did. The QF code share was a great opportunity, andmany thought it would make things better. But even that was a total balls upfrom the start. They didn't have the system access QF wanted them to have. Nocommunication in the event of U/S AC.

It’s no wonder they went into receivership when they paid for the CEO tocome from Ireland and FIFO every 3 weeks to go home and see his wife and kids!




What was the strategy?

To expand the business. The problem was that there wasn't enough aircraft orcrew to support the new routes they were awarded - MRZ and OAG, plus OOMseasonally.

MRZ is a great route with very good pax numbers. The problem is that it wasawarded on the provision that it was a J41 that operated the flight and it was3 flights a day. The midday flight was often cancelled so the aircraft could beutilised elsewhere, and the plane was downgraded to a metro or J32 if the J41was US, which was often. The community never wanted Brindy, but they flew themin the beginning. But Brindy being Brindy ballsed it up and then the paxnumbers began to drop.


They should have never even started the SYD-OAG route. I still believe thiswas a direct retaliation for Rex coming on to SYD-NTL. Decisions based on emotions rather than business.
Passenger numbers were poor from day 1. OAG flights were always the first toget cancelled. The community grew to be aware of this so didn't even botherbooking FQ - always went with Rex.


The idea behind making the company bigger may have been great. But theexecution of the entire thing was crap. Staff didn't know what to tellcustomers as management hadn't told them anything. They tried to be too big too quickly and it was the death of them


How in God’s name does one pick up two viable (albeit small) aviationcompanies and within 12 months it turns to crud?!

I ask myself the same question.....




Why did the CEO bugger off to the UK?
Was it to raise more funds or had the decision been made to close the doorswell before Saturday and he had quit?
I've got my thoughts but it would interesting to see others views who've run abusiness!

Apparently this was for a meeting with the board of directors and investorsto explain exactly what had happened. They flew him over for a face toface meeting. I think he left on the Friday. The announcement was made on the Sundayand he was back in Australia on the following Tuesday. I think he is stillhere?


And on another note Horatio is correct - the pilots never paid the loan. it was taken out in their name but the company made the repayments, the only reason they would have had to make a payment was if they left the company within their bonded service (2 years) which many had done in the past to move onto bigger and better things. Its a natural attrition - the young guns never intend to stay at small regional airlines for long. they want to be at QF with the big boys.
Apparently there was meant to be insurance in place in case the company went belly up? either way, you guys are being a tad harsh on the blokes that have just lost their jobs and have a 30k debt in their name and nothing to show for it. they shouldn't have to pay it - its a loan for training they now wont receive!!! :mad::mad:

[Darwinism]

Well said Mooncheese - that's exactly how it looked from where I was sitting.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

From this morning's news......(December 23, 2013 - 1:37PM)

Brindabella Airlines staff retrenched (http://www.canberratimes.com.au/business/aviation/brindabella-airlines-staff-retrenched-20131223-2ztrg.html)

[WhoamIto]

Well said Mooncheese. I think the following..

BNE operation should have been shut down long ago. One base manager, engineers, ramp staff galore, all for 1 30 seat plane. Costs must have been huge.

BNE base manager kept coming down to SYD to make changes like hed done in BNE. With 1 plaen in BNE how can you not manage a base like that. Why did it take him so many trips overnighting in SYD to acomplish nothing?

No money no parts. Engineering struggled. No suprise to see first and second grounding. Result... enough to kill any airline.

Amazed when Brindi got codeshare with QF...how the management achieved that god would only know. Cash? Were QF an interested party to buy them?

CEO never in country. Not a good recipe. When all fell apart two weeks ago he must have been on holiday in Ireland...he was nver seen, emails sent on his behalf by CCO. No board meeting as the Chairman was in Australia. Where was CEO yesterday when all made redundant....on a luxury cruise ship somewhere in Asia. Where was the Chairman, on a luxury holiday in Bahamas...(did he take the money with him???).... Where was the CCO....on a luxury holiday in Bali! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/infopop/icons/icon7.gif The CFO????

[Darwinism]

Retrenched Brindabella pilots offered new jobs with Rex Airlines - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-26/rex-offers-jobs-to-retrenched-brindabella-pilots/5175116)

Good news, at least for 14 ex-Brindabella pilots. Could be an astute move by Rex - decreases the available pool of J41 endorsed crew so reducing the attractiveness of picking up the ex-BR J41's at a good price and possibly setting up a mini Rex rival.

[Capt Claret]

There's a digit missing off the link above.

Retrenched Brindabella pilots offered new jobs with Rex Airlines - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-26/rex-offers-jobs-to-retrenched-brindabella-pilots/5175116)

[Mail-man]

I wonder what the bond at rex looks like.....

[anonymouspilot]

I wonder what the bond at Rex looks like...
I realize that was asked tongue in cheek but for the record, everyone gets a command rating, 18k over 2yrs pro rata.

Anyone know if any of the Brindy crew were offered DECs?

[Stiff Under Carriage]

Anyone know if any of the Brindy crew were offered DECs?

Whilst I do not know the answer I would not be surprised if they all were. REX have no need for FO's and I would be skeptical if REX had anyone upgradable at this point. I'd imagine all of them hold the necessary TAE and have had commands on >5700kg.

[Bladeangle]

Apparently 3 of them are FO's, the rest DEC's, on the full pay packet from day one of ground school too!

[Jack Ranga]

What! You shouldn't be on full pay from day one of ground school??

[Mach E Avelli]

It's rare these days for companies offer full pay from day one, so Rex must be really in need of DECs to be doing that. Or they have had an epiphany. Either way, if it's true it is good news for the industry.