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Helol
16th Nov 2013, 22:16
Why is it, that when I am driving in the BENELUX countries, I always seem to see a large number of burst truck tyres littering the side of the motorways (and occasionally on the motorway), yet here in the UK, it's not something I see on a regular basis...?

I've noticed this for many years now, and always wondered about it.

radeng
16th Nov 2013, 22:21
I don't drive motorways much, but the few times I do, I seem to often see policemen with their car stationary with lights flashing removing bits of tyres at some danger to themselves, especially considering the majority of idiots who speed down motorways - usually in BMWs or Audis.

ShyTorque
16th Nov 2013, 22:55
There's always tyre debris on the M1 north of Watford Gap.

jimtherev
17th Nov 2013, 00:28
Yes, not so many tyres these days in the uk; perhaps better monitoring by transport companies and the fuzz.
And, it occurs to me, no fanbelts (or dead snakes, as the kids used to call them.) We used to count them on our regular trips from the home counties to the outlaws in Yorkshire; the record was seven on one journey.

Can't remember when I last saw one. Better belts? Better maintenance?

G-CPTN
17th Nov 2013, 00:29
Statistically, tyres are more likely to fail on motorways due to sustained heat build-up, especially if the tyre was under-inflated.

It amazes me how many cars I see in our village with tyres that are dangerously soft. A high-speed run (or a sustained long run) would result in overheating and almost certain carcase failure with the tread flying off or the tyre bursting catastrophically.

Loose rivets
17th Nov 2013, 00:33
Come to Texas and you'll see more tire treads than you can shake a stick at. Use of remoulds is the issue, and the quality of some of those must be dire.

onetrack
17th Nov 2013, 03:45
As previous posters have mentioned, truck tyre carcass failure is often due to excessive heat buildup over a prolonged period of driving whilst fully loaded.

I'd hazard a guess, that with the extension of the many vastly-improved motorways through numerous European countries - and the corresponding increase in long-haul transport through those numerous countries - that the possibility of heat buildup has increased in recent years, as many trucks travel from afar as the U.K. to Eastern Europe and the ME, and return.

The other factor is whether the tyre carcasses are being damaged by narrow roads and unacceptable or unsatisfactory kerbing in the older cities.

It's not uncommon for tyre carcasses to incur serious carcass damage when the tyre is scrubbed against an obstruction such as a projecting kerb, a silent policeman, a poorly-designed kerb drain entrance, debris on the road surface, or any one of a number of other tyre-destroying features of badly-constructed roads and kerbing and median strips.

If a tyre carcass suffers damage such as severe carcass bruising via such an event, then the tyre is much more likely to fail once heavily loaded, and driven at high speed for an extended distance and period.

Carcass damage can also be caused by running for an extended period with low tyre pressure. Reinflating, then loading up, and going for an extended trip will see the tyre fail.

Truck tyre blowout failure at motorway speeds, particularly with steer tyres, is a frightening thing to have happen. It's happened to me at a relatively low 80 kmh, and I could very little to keep directional control.
The blown tyre effectively acts as brake on that wheel. Fortunately, in my case, I was in an isolated area in the Australian Outback, and all that happened was the blown LHS tyre pulled me off the road with little damage sustained.

Safe tyres save lives - CCTV of high speed lorry tyre failure - YouTube

M.Mouse
17th Nov 2013, 04:27
The UK authorities are very good at actually removing debris from motorways.

Solid Rust Twotter
17th Nov 2013, 06:35
A lot of truck tyres are specialty retreads as well, so they tend to disembowel themselves quite spectacularly when they let go.

DType
17th Nov 2013, 08:30
No fan belts? Maybe because the fans are now all electric. And the waterpump/alternator/AC compressor/etc belts seem to be MUCH better.

OFSO
17th Nov 2013, 08:48
And modern automobiles have a cover under the engine closing in the compartment so any belts (or other debris) tends not to fall out on the road.

Lon More
17th Nov 2013, 08:59
Statistically, tyres are more likely to fail on motorways due to sustained heat build-up,
Possibly so many delays in the UK that the tyres never get hot enough? :}. Must admit that I haven't seen many carcasses in the last few years possibly due to better maintenance. Modern truck tyres are designed to be remoulded; thank God the old idea of retreading them by cutting new groves in them ha disappeared. In the UK the Highway Agency seems to collect them quickly but here they just get dumped off the carriageway and are collected at a later date.
Some rellies used to make a lot of money out of changing/repairing truck wheels on the M1.

Helol
17th Nov 2013, 09:41
Thanks chaps. My theory is (in UK) tyres not having as much of a chance to overheat quite so much because of the sheer volume of traffic on our main motorways!

Bizarrely, another relatively common sight 20/30 yrs ago used to be dogs run over, lay on the side of the motorway, (in Hainaut prov of Belgium) but over the past 10 yrs or so, this has thankfully disappeared.

meadowrun
17th Nov 2013, 09:43
One of the saddest sights in the world. Passing a Harley rider sitting by the side of the road who's holding a broken final drive belt in the rain.

At least you can do something with a chain.

tony draper
17th Nov 2013, 10:06
Doing a job in a filling station once,needed a ciggy so walked a bit down the approach and stood a few yards from the carriageway,large lorry passing me blew a tyre, jebus!! one hell of a bang,near blew me over,lot of energy stored in those tyres.
:uhoh:

BDiONU
17th Nov 2013, 10:19
Come to Dubai, loads of tyre debris here (but cleaned up at night) mainly due to two things:
1) Companies running them long past legal tread.
2) The intense heat.

Police and government often run regular checks of truck tyres on the main motorways but there are just too many trucks.

UniFoxOs
17th Nov 2013, 10:25
At least you can do something with a chain.

Business opportunity to come up with an emergency kit with a length of belt than can be joined after fitting in place and suitable for, say, 20 km @ 20 kph? Get you off a motrway and out of the rain.

Metro man
17th Nov 2013, 10:44
I used to have a Citroen GS and had a front tyre fail at around 80km/h. I only noticed it because the car slowed down a lot faster than normal when I slipped into neutral to coast (I was an instructor at a flying club at the time and money was scarce).

The problem with a tyre blow out on the Citroens was that you wouldn't notice it and ended up destroying the tyre.

Yamagata ken
17th Nov 2013, 11:27
Concur with onetrack re loss of control with a blown tyre in a truck. I was driving an 8-wheel (4 axle) tipper when I picked up a puncture in the outer near-side tyre on the back axle. Fully loaded, entering a roundabout (left turn) was fine, but turning right was a slow motion nightmare of oversteer. I was in an ERF, no power steering and about 18 turns from lock to lock. I was going like a fiddlers elbow getting it corrected.

Re: fanbelts. Old style vee-belts were deep in section and single vee, with lots of stress and potential for mechanical failure. Modern belts are flat in section with multiple vees. They are also contructed similarly to cambelts, so will potentially last the life of the car.

funfly
17th Nov 2013, 11:38
Re: fanbelts. Old style vee-belts were deep in section and single vee, with lots of stress and potential for mechanical failure. Modern belts are flat in section with multiple vees. They are also contructed similarly to cambelts, so will potentially last the life of the car.

Seem to remember something about ladies tights used years ago but I've got a suspicion that this was just an excuse to get them off :ok:

DX Wombat
17th Nov 2013, 11:39
I'm not sure what the maximum size is for these but they are not just for cars and the idea sounds good. Tyron bands (http://www.tyron.co.uk/)

Loki
17th Nov 2013, 11:56
Had to take avoiding action a couple of times when trucks ahead have me have blown tyres......big chunks of truck tyre could do a lot of damage at 70 knots. it pays to maintain situational awareness....I knew it was clear to weave into an adjacent lane. (and fortunately everyone behind me was awake and piling their brakes on etc)

Lon More
17th Nov 2013, 12:09
dogs run over

The Walloons found out they made a pretty good stoofvlees

cockney steve
17th Nov 2013, 12:17
Heavy commercial tyres are built with an extra-thick sacrificial sidewall rubber, specifically because of kerbing and scuffing.

The tread has an extra-thick underlayer, again, specifically there so the tread can be recut.

Purpose of tread....to allow surface-water to squidge into the pattern between the blocks that grip the road-surface....slicks have more grip in the dry, due to contact-area with the ground. disastrous in wet,as the water has to squeeze from centre to sides...aquaplaning is the result of too much water+too little time aka too fast for conditions.

Tread is obviously less-stable (wobblier) the further it gets from the solid carcase so a new tyre wears very fast, initially. As the tread becomes more stable, the wear-rate reduces, so the last 1/4 of the tread provides about 2/3 of the mileage , until the pattern is of insufficient depth to remove the water.

Hence the provision to recut!

When that's worn away, the carcase is usually still sound....there are specialist manufacturers of "tread-belts" like a large rubber band with the tread-pattern on the outside....the carcase surface is ground down to a specific finish, treated as required and the band is stretched by a machine , popped over the carcase and the machine withdraws, leaving a new RETREAD...which then has to be autoclaved to vulcanise the new tread to the old carcase-surface.
Again, retreads can be, and are, recut.

With a REMOULD the whole outside of the carcase is prepared. the carcase goes in a mould and new sidewall and tread-rubber is injected....the mould determines the tread-pattern...with car-tyres, it used to be possible to identify a major-manufacturer's "old" tread -pattern on a remould....showing they sold their obsolete moulds on to a remoulder.

All buses and commercial vehicles usually run on retreads/remoulds/recuts the cost of NOT doing so, adds a significant cost to operation.

All commercial aircraft normally use remoulds!....check! IIRC, the remouldability of aircraft tyres is 6 times.

the observant will have noticed that the vast majority of tyre-debris on the motorway verges is TREAD ONLY indicating a retread that has shed....usually due to under-inflation / overloading but also poor carcase-prep. poor handling of treads and poor autoclave-curing also contribute.

I suspect the rigid enforcement of lower speed-limits has meant less failures than we used to see in the '60's and early '70's.

a fascinating subject once you scratch the surface!

Windy Militant
17th Nov 2013, 12:25
Used to do grass track sidecar racing a years ago, one of the guys we used to race against was a tyre fitter. He didn't show up at a meeting one week and we later found out he'd been seriously injured inflating a lorry tyre. Your supposed to use a cage or other safety device when doing this but he was in a hurry to get home.... There's been a few fatalities over the years he was lucky that he wasn't one.

Saw a trailer foot pad on the A34 the other day haven't seen one of those on the road for years. The new quadrant type are lot safer than the wheel type which if the trailer legs dropped down used to spin up and do a fairly good, or bad if they were heading for you, impression of a bouncing bomb!

radeng
17th Nov 2013, 12:36
Interesting about heat. Coming back from Cairo the one and only time I've been there, it was a very long taxi out to the runway, and the FO announced we would be holding for a few minutes at the end of the runway for tyres to cool. From memory, we sat there for about 20 minutes. That runway was a bit like Adlestrop - 'no-one came and no-one went'.

You can tell how long ago it was because it was a L1011!

racedo
17th Nov 2013, 14:23
Seem to remember something about ladies tights used years ago but I've got a suspicion that this was just an excuse to get them off http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

So have you stopped wearing them ? :E

racedo
17th Nov 2013, 14:27
Used to do grass track sidecar racing a years ago, one of the guys we used to race against was a tyre fitter. He didn't show up at a meeting one week and we later found out he'd been seriously injured inflating a lorry tyre. Your supposed to use a cage or other safety device when doing this but he was in a hurry to get home.... There's been a few fatalities over the years he was lucky that he wasn't one.


Pub I used to frequent many years ago has a guy who trained as a Nurse in Birmingham in 1970's. Told story of one day a tyre fitter being brough in with half face no longer there as changing tyre and exploded taking his face with it. Said only time he had to go out and vomit because it was a bad one.

Lon More
17th Nov 2013, 16:06
Your supposed to use a cage or other safety device when doing this
A very substantial piece of kit; ignore it at your own risk. Problem is the steel lock ring may not be seated properly and come off. I've seen one make a considerable hole in a 40 foot high ceiling.

ShyTorque
17th Nov 2013, 16:45
Exploding tyres.....I know of one case where the fitter used an oxygen cylinder from a welding set to inflate a tyre. It was at a now defunct caravan sales place near the car auction entrance at Blackbushe airport. He really lost his head over that one. :yuk:

Metro man
17th Nov 2013, 23:32
I will not use retread/remoulds on my car. Back when I had no money I had to and had two failures, one of which was a rear tyre at 65mph after a few hours hours driving.

Last month I had my car serviced and the dealer recommended new tires all round, I didn't argue. My days of driving dodgy motors are over.

diginagain
17th Nov 2013, 23:50
At least you can do something with a chain. Club the Hog rider over the napper?

VFD
18th Nov 2013, 00:08
As Cockney Steve point out retreads are common in the trucking industry.
USDOT prohibits retreads/regrooves on the steering/front axle.

Heat from overloading in the US in not to common as there are many weigh stations and checks depending on what state you travel.

That being said, when warmer temperatures and southern climates as Loose Rivets points out and long distance/time between stops to check for low inflation pressures causes most failures.

The removal of the rubber alligators sort of becomes dependent of local areas of jurisdiction. I have a relative that works for ODOT and I questioned him about picking up the treads and caucuses along the roadway. He indicated that the job was not to enticing and was usually handed down to someone for disciplinary reasons.

One of my fellow engineers was over in China and commented on overloading of trucks tires there to the point that some trucks had Rube-Goldberg type systems to distribute water on the tires to cool them and it was eye catching to see a truck moving down a road with steam coming off the tires/tyres

VFD

M.Mouse
18th Nov 2013, 02:31
Someone mentioned avoiding tyre debris on the motorway/freeway. My girlfriend was driving down in the centre lane of a three lane motorway a few years ago with traffic on both sides of her. She was unable to avoid some truck tyre debris in her lane and the damage to her low sports car was substantial!

reynoldsno1
19th Nov 2013, 01:43
Michigan is where old truck tyres go home to die ...
Indiana going north - sssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, then ferdump,ferdump,ferdump,ferdump ... mrsr1, what's that? Just crossed the state line, sweetheart - nearly home ....