Piedmont/US AIR passengers walk off after blind man kicked off

[robbreid]

Blind N.Y. man allegedly kicked off plane over guide dog; passengers exit in solidarity - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57612364/blind-n.y-man-allegedly-kicked-off-plane-over-guide-dog-passengers-exit-in-solidarity/)

Piedmont (PI) #4183 ? 13-Nov-2013 ? KPHL - KISP ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/PDT4183/history/20131113/2110Z/KPHL/KISP)

Passengers aboard a U.S. Airways Express flight staged an apparent revolt Wednesday night in support of a fellow traveler who is legally blind, when his dog wouldn't remain under his seat - after a long delay, the aircraft returned to the gate.

Security entered the plane to remove the legally blind passenger and his dog - the remaining 35 passengers - all of them, walked off the flight.

The entire group took a bus back to Long Island from Philly.

[Vilner]

Kicking the poor guy off the plane seems way over the top. :confused:

With only 1 side of the story, it's hard to know for sure what happened, but from the article I'd say the situation could have been handled differently.

[Igel]

"his dog wouldn't remain under his seat" we need to see an instruction from the given Company. But "under the seat" like a hand luggage seems strange...


It seems that only possible position for the guide dog is to lie on the floor between the rows near the blind passenger (and ideally the whole two seats row shall be given for them)

[PAXboy]

We will never know the full story.


The carrier's Ts&Cs?
Had the dog travelled by air before?
Actions by ground staff that might have affected the dog?
Actions by cabin staff that might have affected the dog?
Actions by other pax that might have affected the dog?
Etcetera.

That said, a mass walk off is VERY unusual.

[Capot]

If an entire passenger load walks off an aircraft, thus sacrificing their flight tickets, to express their outrage at the way a passenger has been treated, it seems to me that we can take it as proven that the airline staff, quite probably the aircrew, got it totally, horribly wrong.

Those people were there, saw and heard what happened, and walked off as a result. That's good enough for me.

[radeng]

I suspect the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) may kick in.

[KBPsen]

If an entire passenger load walks off an aircraft...It doesn't take much to set the outrage-express in motion among a small group of people. One determined leader can quite quickly gather a small following and then momentum and group pressure will cause the rest to tag along.

[ExXB]

I suspect the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) may kick in.

The Air Carrier Access Act (http://www.disabilitytravel.com/airlines/air_carrier_act.htm) trumps ADA.

[Capot]

.....momentum and group pressure will cause the rest to tag along.
Hmmm....I rather doubt that there was no-one capable of making up his or her own mind, if he or she saw no reason to "tag along" with the herd.

I know that some people will always be sheep, but there are also plenty of awkward cusses who do not just follow the flock.

Then again, down in JB there's the notion that after "the passengers" sided with the blind man, the Captain offloaded the lot of them.

If that's true, whether that means "every passenger" or some of the passengers" remains to be seen.

So as always there's several sides to the story, and we, especially me, shouldn't jump to conclusions!

[flarepilot]

Let's get some things straight.


1. The crew requested/ordered the dog to be under the seat.

2. The crew didn't come up with this, its in the FLIGHT OPS MANUAL approved by the FAA for this airline and is about the same for all other US airlines.

3. The passenger did not comply. The crew could easily consider this person to be interfering with the duties of the crew, which is contrary to the regulations.

4. If you have a seeing eye dog, it goes under your seat, them's the rules...not just for this guy, but all passengers in need of a seeing eye dog.


The flight was cancelled and the buses were brought in, that's why all the passengers got off.

While some passengers expressed outrage, it is simply because they were ignorant of the facts and the flight ops manual.

Had I been there, i might have taken the manual back and shown it to the concerned fellow passengers, and I would have asked them to read it to the blind man as it is not in braile or on audio books.


There are reasons for everything we do as flight crew and most people simply don't understand.


I'm with the crew on this one.

And if anyone thinks it is unfair...fine, petition the FAA to change the rules...but until then, dog under chair, comprende?

[flarepilot]

i noticed that the dog was reported as agitated because the plane had been sitting so long waiting for departure.

so what? a dog on a transcontinental flight would have to sit under the seaT for many hours...and there is no doggie door to help out in case of biological need.

sorry, the blind man was wrong, the passengers were wrong and that's all there is to that.

[flarepilot]

it occurred to me that some might not see the wisdom in putting the dog under the seat.


if the dog were in the space in front of the passengers seats and the order to evacuate was given, some people might trip over the dog, just like we don't keep our suitcases in the same area for the same reason.

and if the dog was placed in the aisle, it would make serving from the ''cart'' difficult for the flight attendant.


but the giant reason is turbulence...if the dog is under the seat and you encounter turbulence the dog will likely remain under the seat


if the dog is in the aisle or otherwise NOT secured and the plane hits real rough air (rough rough ) the dog is thrown around the cabin, hits someone in the head, snaps their head back and breaks their neck, who is supposed to compensate the passenger who is now paralyzed?

[crewmeal]

1. The crew requested/ordered the dog to be under the seat.

If it was a labrador it would be too big to go under a seat especially if it was a Dash 8.

I noticed that the dog was reported as agitated because the plane had been sitting so long waiting for departure.

Nothing new there, most pax are like that :ugh:

[Capot]

Blind peoples' dogs are usually retrievers, of one kind or another, or retriever sized; occasionally smaller but not often.

So I'm still wondering how you get one of those "under" the average economy seat.

Has anyone actually seen this done, for real?

Or is the rule in practice "under the seat as far as possible"?

If so, which seat? The blind person's, or the one in front?

So many questions, so many other things to do.

Sorry, just read previous post properly! But mine is a question, seeking illumination.

[flarepilot]

if you read the post, it mentions the dog wouldn't go BACK under the seat...this indicates to me that the dog had been under the seat prior to this time

therefor the dog had "fit" under the seat.

obviously dog lovers will try to stay on the dog's side...but this has been done for YEARS with no problem for the dog or master.

capot, if the dog is laying down it fits under the seat and I have seen it done...even on a turboprop the size of a metroliner.and if I recall properly, the blind man and dog is afforded the chair with the most leg room in the whole plane (middle seat last row).