Request to pay for an upgrade

[Octopussy2]

This may be a daft question, but maybe you can advise me.

I'm travelling on a KLM/Delta codeshare from Geneva via Schiphol to Minneapolis - I want to see if by any chance there's a possibility of an upgrade at a price I'd been willing to pay.

My question is, do I ask already at Geneva (I'm not bothered about being upgraded for the Geneva to Amsterdam leg), or do I wait until Schiphol - the reasoning being, do I need to find a Delta desk, as my request concerns the Delta leg, or will the KLM agents at Geneva be able to deal with it?

The thought of 9 hours down the back on Delta is not filling me with joy.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

I suggest you ask wherever and whenever possible.

But your best chance might be look on Deltas website for any suggestion that the business cabin has seats open.

But get to Delta desk (business counter if available) at AMS and ask the question: is there any chance of an upgrade to business on my existing ticket, at a reasonable price........

[ExXB]

or call them?

Delta Air Lines
1215 Genève 15 Aéroport
Phone *0848 00 08 72

local.ch - Offizielles Telefonbuch und Gelben Seiten der Schweiz (http://www.local.ch)

[Octopussy2]

Thank you. I'll ask everyone at every available opportunity!

Will let you know how it goes.

[skot]

I've had paid-for BA upgrades, but only out of the US.
I've paid $400 to get from econ to prem-econ and $600 to get from P-E to business (on a different flight!).

I've also gone to the Virgin desk when they announced that they were offering paid-for upgrades from LHR to Cape Town. Went up to the desk and they wanted £2,200 to get from econ to business - an offer I politely declined!

[bedsted]

I personally would not put too much faith in receiving a reasonable deal from Delta/KLM/AirFrance

[Jarvy]

Last year I had booked JFK to Tokyo return economy for $1800. Mrs J was on the same flights but in business as the company where paying for her seat. I rang Delta and upgraded both ways for a total of $2200 extra. So just over double.
This worked out a lot cheaper than booking the previous quoted business class ticket!

[SeenItAll]

Don't know about Delta/KLM, but on United, if there are unused seats in Business 24 hours out, when you check in (online or at a kiosk), you will almost certainly be presented with an offer to buy up from Economy to Business. In my experience, on a TATL flight, the one-way buy-up price will range from USD 600 to 1000.

Note that attempting to secure an upgraded seat more than 24 hours before the flight will almost surely be only at a higher price than what might be available at T-24. Good luck.

[MathFox]

Octopussy, KLM handles the Delta flights in Amsterdam, there is no Delta ground crew in AMS. When I check in for a Delta flight in AMS, it's at the KLM desks; you'ld have to go to the KLM transfer desk to make the arrangements.

It's a long standing deal that KLM/AF does European handling of passengers for Delta, while Delta does the handling of KLM/AF passengers in the US.

[Octopussy2]

Thanks again, all. Soooo, when I check in online, I get a message saying do I want to upgrade to "economy comfort" - CHF 25 for the leg to Amsterdam and CHF 90 from Amsterdam to Minneapolis. So of course I say yes, and whip out the corporate Amex (I figured this would be enough of an upgrade and it had the added advantage that the company would pay; I would have had to pay a business class upgrade myself).

So the system takes my money, I turn up at Geneva and get given a new boarding card for the first leg, but they can't issue me a new one for the next leg, that will have to be done at Schiphol. Duly turn up at Schiphol and explain I've bought the upgrade - but it's not in the system. Show them the email confirmation - turns out they have sold the upgrade twice. Plane is full, so no upgrade anywhere (by this time I'm feeling relatively fortunate in spite of it all, because two of my colleagues connecting from Italy have been bumpted and have to spend the night in Amsterdam).

Ho hum. No availability either on the return flight (and to add insult to injury, my screen wasn't working).

Just a word about the Delta hosties, though - people had told me all sorts of horror stories, but they were absolutely charming (admittedly I was VERY polite and did my best to engage them). I couldn't fault the service (within the constraints of that particular product). The plane was tired, old and very cramped, but the staff were great.

[ExXB]

Octopussy - did they offer you compensation? Regulation 261/2004 provides

2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), reimburse
(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1 500 kilo- metres or less, or
(b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, except flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments, and for all other flights between 1 500 and 3 500 kilometres, or
(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b), including flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments.

I'd say they owe you 75% of the price of the ticket (i.e. what you paid including the upgrade).

Your colleagues should have been composted as well, for being bumped.

Remember that the Regulation applies to all flights from the EU (including US carriers), and Switzerland/NO/IS

[vctenderness]

Try this method, lots of folk do.

Nonchalantly walk through the business class cabin supposedly looking for the toilets. Check if there are any empty seats, preferably near the back and more than just one.

Wait until lights off and then sneak back and quickly get seat into bed mode, grab duvet and get your head down. Hope that crew are not too observant. In morning wait until service is underway and then sit up and wait for breakfast.

One extra little tip if caught don't start arguing with senior cabin crew about all these empty seats going to waste and you being one of the airlines best customers etc. just get up and go back to your place in the hovel cabin.

[Andy_S]

Try this method, lots of folk do.

And I suspect the failure rate is close to 100%.....

[Octopussy2]

ExXB - thanks for your thoughts. I suspect, though, that "the ticket purchased" in this case would be considered to be my original, economy ticket and that I merely subsequently purchased an upgrade to that ticket, so that the regs wouldn't apply (it doesn't seem reasonable that the airline would expose itself to reimbursing 75% of the ticket price, for a gain of only CHF 90).

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm far too classy to try vctenderness' approach.

[ExXB]

I suspect the same ...

But I do recall flying PA in the very early days of "business class" when the separated the cabin with little signs stuck in the top of the seat back. There was no difference in the seat only the quality of the service.

I was assigned the last row of business and was sitting there when the pax in the seat behind me noticed the little notice. He stood up, looked around, and then took it and stuck it into his own seat back. He upgraded himself and his seat mates with this simple action.

Not so easy these days ...

[vctenderness]

Quote:
Originally Posted by vctenderness
Try this method, lots of folk do.
And I suspect the failure rate is close to 100%.....

When I was around it was I can assure you!

[ExXB]

Octopussy - Your ticket, once you paid for the upgrade was for travel in a class higher than the class you actually travelled in. They didn't have to offer you an upgrade but they did and you paid for it.

I normally don't favour the 'compensation culture' we see often. However, here I think KL/DL have screwed up royally. They promised you something they couldn't deliver on a flight that was oversold to boot. If they can get away with it, they will do it again.

I suggest you contact the marketing carrier (regardless of whose metal was used) and point out that you were involuntarily downgraded and that Regulation 261/2004 applies to downgrades. (There is no extraordinary circumstance defence for downgrades).

You should also point out that the Regulation requires them to advise you of your rights at the time the downgrade took place. They failed to do this, hoping you would go away without causing them any grief.

[The SSK]

Puss I'm sure your HR/Finance people wouldn't balk at demanding a refund. They get the 75%, repay you your CHF90 and pat you on the back for your diligence in researching the legal justifications. And maybe book you C-class next time in the hope that it happens again.

[Gibon2]

If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased

I think the problem here might be that "Economy Comfort" is probably not, in Delta's view, a separate class. I haven't flown on Delta recently, but if it is like the equivalent United product, it is a seat in economy class with a bit more legroom.

But I'm curious - have they at least refunded the CHF 90?

[ExXB]

KL/DL (whichever is the marketing carrier) would be hard pressed to say that something they charge extra for was not a separate class.

In any case they should have advised Octopussy of his rights. They didn't, so they only have themselves to blame.

[Octopussy2]

Gbion2's explanation is also my understanding. Yes, they have said they will refund the CHF 90.

BTW, just for the record, I'm female and (possibly ironically) a lawyer. I am in complete agreement with you about the compensation culture, and because litigation is my job, I tend to try and stay away from it in my free time.

If I'd paid to be upgraded to business and hadn't, then I would definitely have demanded compensation (because this might have affected, for example,what I'd packed to keep me amused on the flight), but being denied a little extra leg room has (for me) less significance. Then again, I'm short... I can imagine there are people out there who would be seriously upset.