Tiger now employing DEC Astronaut's.......

[AnQrKa]

Wow, 15,000 hours TT?

Who pulled these requirements out of their butt?

Hilarious.

[FYSTI]

15000 TT = mouldy blue shirt club?

[6100]

That would have to be someone looking after their mates. Who's the CP at Tiger?

[clear to land]

Impressive-the ex AN legacy seems like it will never die. Thats nearly double the requirements for DEC at EK-which has just a few more challenges ;)

[neville_nobody]

Reality is that if you are an Australian and you already have airline jet command time you would be close to that anyway. The majority of the Captains at VB/Jetstar/QF would have that easy.

This ain't Europe where you start flying a 737/A320 with 250 hours. Most guys start in jets around 5000 total.

Tiger want guys with experience and good luck to them :ok: Whether they want to pay for that or not will be the question!

[clark y]

My guess is its a typo.
For the conspiracy theorists out there- tiger won't be able to get any pilots with those requirements so will call for 457 visas.

[haughtney1]

15000hrs TT hahaha..for a 320 job? hahaha:8 Oztranoughts only perhaps

[boocs]

Funniest thing is, I personally know a handful of the Captains there, 1 a Trainer, and none of them have 15,000 hours.

does that mean they should quit?!?!?

b.

[Icarus2001]

The majority of the Captains at VB/Jetstar/QF would have that easy.I just tried a straw poll of five friends at VA, four are captains, they are between 8300 and 12800 total time.

[DeltaT]

"your application was not as competitive as other applicants in this instance."
Lots of competition and highly experienced applicants don't you know.
It's not about if you cut the grade, it's all about comparing you to others post testing assessment, I guess they want some pilots that will surpass everyone else.

[TheColonel]

They are targeting experienced aussie expats from dragon/cathay/emirates ect. And they will get them. No shortage of keen guys to come home... :cool:

[Captain Dart]

An expat mate tried Tiger for a while but it was so bad, he went overseas again.

And I can tell you personally that I know of no-one in CX who is interested.

[KRUSTY 34]

The plan, or at least what has been purported as the conditions for the purchase of 60% of TT by VA, was that TT be brought to profitability. This aint' gunna happen with just 11 aircraft.

Probably asking a bit much for highly experienced crews to leave secure positions until at least some sort of movement is seen in this regard.

Personally, I don't know how they(VA) are going to do it? :confused:

[Watchdog]

15,000 TT - not a typo

[Mister Warning]

15000 TT is more than fair as long as Tiger are willing to pay commensurate with that experience.
Somehow I think that's unlikely..... :sad:

[SOPS]

Ok....for my 20000 hours what are they paying? I will throw in 13 years as a TRE for free...what's the offer?..I didn't think so.

[Mister Warning]

SOPS I reckon about a dollar per hour per month would be minimum acceptable....

[smiling monkey]

Here's a guy (http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/526390-any-jobs-b1900.html) that's almost qualified for the job .. has 13500 hours TT at 33 years of age. (So he averaged 900 hours per year, every year, since he was 18 years of age to have that amount of hours :hmm: ). Pity he doesn't have an A320 TR.

[Gonetilltuesday]

The A in Astronaut stands for Ansett... Clearly the managers are trying to recruit their ex-Ansett mates....this is what happens in the smaller companies. After a long exile the misunderstood are invited back to Australia...

I love going fishing

[Captain Dart]

...or is it ex-Ansett ex-mates? :hmm:

[waren9]

lol subtle

[Mach E Avelli]

Smiling Monkey. I am sure that guy in India with 13500 hours will soon claim the necessary 15000 AND whatever type rating is desired! But he will need to up his age to 35 to have any credibility.......harrumph.

In one middle eastern country where I worked, jail time was mandatory for pilots who got caught with falsified qualifications. I successfully had one such person who gave us a heap of grief locked up for a short time. India needs this law to be enforced to take these characters out of the industry.

If Tiger really are bringing in 15000 hour DECs over the top of existing experienced F/Os it will guarantee two things: 1. Resentment from F/Os who have put in a few years already 2. When they realise that there is no career to be had there, F/Os will seek greener pastures.

What a great atmosphere for morale, safety and stability.

[Captain Dart]

Yes, I hear that the Parker Pen Company does a roaring trade in refills throughout India.

[totempole]

Parker pen pilot hours...oh, oh, oh you guys must be making fun of brig. Gen patricia halfback of " swiss air/crosshair " fame now holed up in incheon! Not nice, you know because he is such a nice volunteer boyscout! Guys can even get alteon instructors' sim check operating notes from him, small wonder so many newbies ace all the sim checks at jungseok building next ti inha hospital !

[Angle of Attack]

It doesn't really matter if its 15000 hours or 25000 hours, why does anyone care? Still crap conditions, thus let them do what they like, I have no idea why anyone would get worked up over it, bring it, I say...

[nitpicker330]

Three words

SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

Nothing more, nothing less. :ok:

[waren9]

wow aofa. bring it? this from a pilot with a number on possibly the most heavily defended and entrenched seniority list in the region?

if you were a capable fo at tiger good chk history and kept your nose clean i doubt youd be feelin the love

38? dont get too cozy mate, there arent too many jobs for life left in aviation.

[Berealgetreal]

Who said Tiger needs to make a profit to be of benefit to the Virgin group..

[Maisk Rotum]

Damn!! 22,000 hours but only 2,000 in command of the Airbus.

[oneflewoverthecuckoo]

Word is that Tigerair advertised for high time pilots to supplement their choice of check and training options and that they are talking to a significant number of interested people. I guess if you have been flying for 30 years you're going to have at least 15000 hours and if you want to come home after a dose of sand where else is there.
Makes sense. And surely these high time guys won't stop any F/O from being upgraded especially given their expansion plans.
From my perspective I would rather have my family on a plane with experienced pilots who know what they are doing.

[Gnadenburg]

I can understand these requirements especially the ex-AN bit- as opposed to recruiting a poorly trained, bogan Australian pilot who had to pay for his endorsement. :8

[Keith Nash]

Fishin's not so good in this pond Gnads :=

[Icarus2001]

And surely these high time guys won't stop any F/O from being upgraded especially given their expansion plans. With logic like that you should be running Qantas, wait a minute, is that you Al?

[Gnadenburg]

Truth hurts Ken. You're at regulatory minimums or Egyptian standards from what I hear of low cost flying operations in Australia.

[Jack Ranga]

Post #32 Love it :D

[Australia2]

Me too :ok:

[AnQrKa]

"bogan Australian pilot who had to pay for his endorsement."

Love it. So true. The LCC/low wage model has certainly opened up to a new cadre of bogans and male models.......

[Karunch]

as opposed to recruiting a poorly trained, bogan Australian pilot who had to pay for his endorsement.

Indeed, the flightdecks of Australian Lcc's now more closely resemble the blokes on an end of season footy trip. Backpacks, type rating debts and not an Hsc to be seen.

Thankfully they've not tried to export this inferior product yet.

[D'pirate]

So did any "Astronauts" take the bait? :rolleyes:

[geeup]

DEC never seems to work.
I've seen it destroy companies.
It's usually a result of the attitudes of the DECs rather than the quality of the company.
Also a bit of a slap in the face for the training department not producing upgradable FOs.

[Al E. Vator]

…so you mean like Singapore Airlines, Emirates, Qatar, Ethihad, China Southern, Air China, All Nippon…..yes they seem to be suffering.

[D'pirate]

Geeup - which companies? Pretty strong generalisation about DECs and training departments. Sounds a bit bitter from someone whose own profile is "washed up"?

[Captain Dart]

Yes, The title of this thread is a classic example of the 'Grocer's Apostrophe'. Not a good look.

[Wally Mk2]

..........oh boy the speeling polise r out in forse again I sea:)

You don't need an HSC or good grammar/spelling to fly a plane, that's a myth!


Wmk2

[Captain Dart]

No, Wally, flying a 'plane' as you call it is not rocket science. But operating a commercial jet transport does require some communication skills and attention to detail. When you post under your PPRunE persona, what you write is seen by thousands. The odd undetected slip of the keyboard is one thing. But basic misuse of punctuation in the title, unedited by the poster and obviously not checked, does not contribute to the poster's credibility. It really is a turn-off.

If not for the 'spelling police', where does it all end? Gen Y textspeak?

At least any DEC 'astronauts' would probably be of a generation taught to punctuate correctly. And so would many prospective employers...

[Wally Mk2]

'Darty' it took well over 40 posts for someone to 'pick' at someone's very harmless slip of the keyboard. So what, I mean sheeez some people have little else to do than inflict their morals on us!!! So that shows that if it's a 'turn-off' then it effects virtually nobody.
Commutative skills are overrated & with all the crap now needed to get thru the psycho skill rubbish communication skills will be more at the top of the list than the actual flying of the machine.

People from all walks of life visit these pages from Astronaut's to beautiful simple folk whom don't judge or hurt a fly & if some HR nut detects that their ability or inability to spell or apply the correct grammer means they are out of the game then well it's their loss only I say not someone else here to judge!

I didn't complete year 11 (form 5), failed pretty much every test at school & was selected to be a tradie when I left school so I did, a pilot just another trade:)

Anyway like has been said in here many a time if you don't like it don't read any further:ok:


Wmk2

[C441]

Silly me!

I thought it was some sort of question like the Million $$$$ question on Eddie Collingwood's hot-seat. :D

Tiger employing DEC astronaut's..........
A. Children
B. Dogs
C. Spaceships
D. Experience

[John Citizen]

well saids' Wally

I agriee with u very much

[C441]

Eclan et al.

I strongly suggest you avoid the "When is the next cull......" thread.

Personally, I find the 'find the missing punctuation and capitals' over there quite amusing.

My wife tells me that not all of her year 4 class are beyond that level yet! :cool:

[Capt Claret]

I wonder how many job applications, either in response to an advertised position or just cold calling, get dumped in the round file because of a demonstrable lack of literacy and grammar skills?

Who said spellin' don't matta??? :8 :ouch: :ugh:

[AnQrKa]

Strangely enough I just ran the title through my spell checker on word and all was ok.

You guys need to get out more. I started a thread concerning the (outrageously absurd) employment practices of an airline and you are focusing in on the grammatical errors in the thread title?

And as several posters have already pointed out, EVERYBODY, including the anal-retentive Captain Dart fully understood the message as written.

Loosen up fellahs, there’s a big world out there that requires a broader perspective.

[Wally Mk2]

'ANQ' I agree mate & most of us really don't worry about such things (grama/speeling) but some just have to be hero like but hey that's fine it takes all kinds to drive a plane, dumb & the educated:)

'Eclan' whether flying is a profession or a trade is subjective I believe, it really is just a skill I believe & requires virtually no formal education to fly unlike a Dr for Eg where you must have a certain amount of education b4 you even start learning to cut up people:-) :)

I did a motor mech trade b4 I started to drive a plane so to me it was the same thing, you where shown what to do, passed a few exams & did a test or two, not rocket science in either 'trade' & both the trades can kill/Mame :ok:.

It's pretty obvious as to why Tigers desire such a high number of flight Hrs.

Wmk2

[Captain Dart]

Spoken like a true Gen X-er; blames fundamental misuse of punctuation on a computer.

One would hope he can fly a visual approach.

[AnQrKa]

“Spoken like a true Gen X-er; blames fundamental misuse of punctuation on a computer.”

Ahhhh, dude…..whatever.

“One would hope he can fly a visual approach.”

Now this comment is just plane stooopid.

Dude.

[theheadmaster]

It amuses me when those without communication skills try to argue that those same skills are not required. I suspect the irony is lost on them, however.

[The Professor]

It amuses me that those priding themselves on perfect spelling, punctuation and grammar don’t understand that such importance is not to ensure effective communication but to identify one as belonging to the ruling elite.

Your argument is not about transmitting a message. The message has obviously been received.

Your constant correcting of extremely minor oversights in punctuation and “smart arse” comments linking such trivial mistakes to ones ability to fly a visual approach simply highlight an underlying insecurity you have and the resulting need to constantly prove that you are not working class!

Its ok, no one actually cares that you are landed gentry!

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Its ok, no one actually cares that you are landed gentry!

...but they always compraining when you are randed heaviry! :}

(Sorry.)

[Jack Ranga]

Oh, I don't know, maybe correct punctuation and grammar show an eye for detail and willingness to get things right? Like wiring a panel correctly or putting all the fasteners back in a fairing. How do you separate where you are going to spend that attention to detail? Is near enough, good enough?

I certainly wouldn't employ someone who's job it is to communicate if their punctuation and grammar was garbage.

And I'm not having a crack at ya Wal old mate ;)

[AnQrKa]

"I certainly wouldn't employ someone who's job it is to communicate if their punctuation and grammar was garbage."

Lucky us piluts dont communicate with them air traffic controllers in hand writin' then.

[Jack Ranga]

lol, I'm sort of saying that AnQrKa:E

[Angle of Attack]

Spoken like a true Gen X-er; blames fundamental misuse of punctuation on a computer

Dont you mean Gen Y'er, us Gen X's traditionally knuckle down and work hard and get screwed from both sides, the Boomers blowing all the Inheritence and the Y'ers staying at home spending our money. :E

[envoy]

I certainly wouldn't employ someone who's job it is to communicate if their punctuation and grammar was garbage

Isn't it 'whose', not 'who's'?

Happy days!

[Jack Ranga]

You're telling the story ;) happy days indeed.

[MASTEMA]

In answer to D'pirates question, a few Astronauts have been accepted and have commenced training.

The entry requirements were "15,000hrs total time and significant Check and Training experience... "

Based on the few who have been accepted, these requirements do not appear to be a requirement at all. :confused:

[Wally Mk2]

This is rather an interesting thread now, some humor has crept in so hopefully the few whom obviously lead sad lives get a laugh:ok:

'Professor' nicely put mate:ok:

'JR' that's okay buddy one can never argue with the man on the other end of the radio although sometimes I wonder what Weeties packet they got their licenses from, prolly the same as mine :E. With not having made it thru form 5 it hasn't held me back too much, being dumb has it's uses I can plead dumb & the courts will let me go, I can be dumb & the few sad ones here get their jollies & gives them purpose so all in all there's a place for us dummies:)

'Mastema' all that is going to create is a steeper cockpit gradient, you know the 'them & us' mentality having that many hrs doesn't guarantee a thing in some ways.


No doubt this thread will be closed 'cause we have drifted off into space here away from the main subject & we can't have that now can we?:E


Wmk2

[Howard Hughes]

and it is a profession, not a trade.
Vocational skill actually, but we digress, like the grammar issue! ;)

[Jack Ranga]

Wal, you made it a year further than me mate :ok: lol

[Wally Mk2]

Christ 'JR' & here I thought I was the dumbest one amongst these sad pages:E



Wmk2

[Jack Ranga]

Nahhhhhhh mate, dumb as dog****, how can I prove it? I did a panel beating apprenticeship when I left school, dumbas bro:ok:

[NowThatsFunny]

I find it amusing, actually pathetic, how those using crap grammar defend themselves.

Hey, you edumacated grama polise should chill and leave us unedumacated, suffring, lower class, "I left school at kindergarten" rabble alone. Poor us. Anyways, we gots our msg across so who gives a toss if we's cant string two correkt words togever. "Near enough is good enough" never killed anybody.

I suppose low standards in communication has no correlation to anything else.

Oh, chill mate. Its only grama. You cants compare bad grama to nots doing your job proper like.


"I'm not a professional aviator, I'm just a tradie".....yep, pretty much sums up your attitude. Nothing like aiming for the least of your ability.



NowThatsFunny

[maggot]

Mabbe some cant be forked since their typing on a ipad
:bored:

[Mach E Avelli]

Seeing as this thread started on the subject of astronauts - do any of you who can't be bothered mastering the written word of your native language think that any astronaut ever got selected without a very good command of at least one language? Be it Russian, American-English or whatever, surely any reasonably intelligent person can learn to write one language with a minimum of grammatical errors? Some manage several and still have enough surplus mental capacity to fly aircraft.

Btw, I left school at 15. You don't need an elite or even a long education to learn a few words and punctuation rules.

Blame it on the iPad? If so, how will you ever get around the FMC?

When sorting job applications I ALWAYS binned any that had not been properly proof-read for errors. It reduced the pile to manageable proportions. Now that recruiting is mainly in the hands of human remains type people, you can bet they do much the same to reduce their workload.

So all you who claim that poor grammar does not matter in aviation, don't die wondering why you never got that job interview.

[Howard Hughes]

Mabbe some cant be forked since their typing on a ipad
I reckon that is closer to the mark! ;)

[D'pirate]

Thanks MASTEMA, if those recruited so far do not actually meet the advertised requirements, then what are the special talents that they will be bringing to Tiger?

[Wally Mk2]

Sorry 'Eclan' can't give away any 'TRADE" secrets, trade being the optimum word here:ok:
Some are really hanging on tight here :)

Wmk2

[oicur12.again]

Holy crap.

The grammar police really are perfectionists.

Are you guy’s perfect pilots also? Or when driving a car.

Ever boiled the kettle over?

Slipped in the rain?

Life must be awesome being so damn good.

[theheadmaster]

The grammatical construction and interpretation of company orders, orders from regulators and government legislation is vitally important in this highly regulated industry. Screw it up and it can get very expensive!

[Jack Ranga]

It's probably a case of aiming to be perfect rather than near enough is good enough.

[Gligg]

The best commas are the ones between ,000's.

[Capn Bloggs]

Are you guy’s perfect pilots also?
Tut tut. No comma in guys. :=

[Samba Anaconda]

Capn...comma? That's a comma? Good Lord...Me thinks that's an " arsepostrophy "! The kind of trophy given to smart alecs.

[hoss]

Hey keep Alecs out of this. Besides it's spelt Alex.

[Tidbinbilla]

How about we get back on track?

Tigerair and its pilot negotiators have come to an in-principle agreement regarding the next Certified Agreement.

The CA will be put to vote in the near future.

[tryhard1]

Looks like they have reduced their requirements for Captains at Tiger now :)

justAviation - A320 Captain (http://www.justaviation.com/airlinejobs/view/1006/A320_Captain)

[Hot High Heavy]

I have been considering throwing my hat in the ring for an FO gig at Tiger but was keen to hear from anybody that already works there prior to starting the process. Specifically;

What sort of hours do you put in?
What's the training like?
What are the crew like?
Do you feel that the company will indeed keep growing?
What are the pay and conditions?
Is the endorsement self funded up front or can you be bonded for it?

Feel free to PM me.

Cheers HHH

[Capt Fathom]

From another PPRuNe link.....

Be prepared to self-sponsor an A320 Type Rating or CCQ if not already A320 endorsed

[atlas12]

That sounds like a decent agreement. Does anyone know how many overnights roughly per roster at Tiger? Being owned by V now, could one expect 5 day trips? Or possibly more a Jetstar type of roster. :confused:

[Vorsicht]

Can i take that to read pilots already employed at time of EBA signing will get an annual retention bonus of 10 k for Capt and $6667 for F/O's but those not already employed at time of EBA signing will get less than half that?

[ASY68]

Atlas, TT's model is to avoid O/N costs being an LCC, presently there are no overnighting duties, that being said there are crews that are MEL based however on secondment to the SYD base for periods of time...

With the new expansion it is hard to tell what direction they are heading, I'll try and suss it out when I'm over at the zoo next at work.

[joblogs1]

Gold Coast over nights
Perth out of syd
Not like v aus...
75 hours or so per month

[atlas12]

Thanks guys, that's good info :ok:

[Yap-Yap]

So based on the brief, a level 1 (year 1?) FO goes from the current EBA of $84,254 + Guaranteed 500hrs @ $40.42 = $104,464 Base

To $94,250 base for 660hrs!

If around 75 hours a month is correct, or 900hrs a year, the current EBA would be $120,632.

The new $111,050.

As a new pilot you wouldn't get the retention bonus, which goes from every 3 years to yearly for the same amount.

So in the end if we pro-rata the current 3 yearly bonus to yearly.

For a pilot joining after the new EBA..

Current EBA $127,299.

New EBA $111,050.

Surely not!?!

[Geeham]

What are the definitions of the new level 1,2 and 3 FOs?

[Stiff Under Carriage]

For a pilot joining after the new EBA..

Current EBA $127,299.

New EBA $111,050.

Surely not!?!

Creative blind side.

Who voted for that??

[abfgh]

So how much will I have in the bank after tax.....Captain with more than 8000hrs on A320.q

[pilotchute]

As a Capt about $11,000 a month and FO maybe $7,000.

[abfgh]

Thanks pilotchute. On more money at the moment, but money is not everything. thanks again.