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Noah Zark.
5th Nov 2013, 19:45
Although we can't afford to launch space machinery ourselves, I'm glad to see that we continue to subsidise India to the tune of 280m a year so they can launch it instead.

OFSO
5th Nov 2013, 19:56
Although we can't afford to launch space machinery ourselves

More a fact that we are a member state of ESA: together the 19 member states do more for less money. ESA launches roughly every three months (seven ESA launches planned for 2014) and nearly always with a double payload. No other single power can match that.

In the UK we build a large amount of "space machinery" - and over 30,000 people are directly employed in the space industry.

And we are also a member state of Arianespace.

Edit: some time ago I saw a study which said the UK gets back about two and a half times the amount that we put into ESA.

...and now to subsidies. IMHO we should not be subsidising ANY foreign power when we haven't the money ourselves, no matter what other scientific projects they can afford.

Edit: ... and in contrast to my added remark above, we get b*gger all back from the subsidies. Not even (or especially not) goodwill.

radeng
5th Nov 2013, 19:59
OFSO

Exactly so.

G-CPTN
5th Nov 2013, 20:14
Maybe the need to find a future dwelling place for the population is greater than countries with fewer inhabitants?

B Fraser
5th Nov 2013, 21:10
The spacecraft has been sent to Mars from Chennai to detect signs of methane. The probes already there are doing just that so the intended contribution is rather pointless. Come to think of it, standing on the beach in Chennai, methane is the main thing you can smell.

:rolleyes:

radeng
5th Nov 2013, 21:14
B Fraser

I thought the smell was a bit more complex than just methane - some H2S in there as well. Sh*t anyway.

B Fraser
5th Nov 2013, 21:33
I reckon that the announcement that aromatic organic compounds have been detected is guaranteed. The chances of anything actually coming from Mars will be a million to one.

:rolleyes:

G-CPTN
5th Nov 2013, 21:49
The chances of anything actually coming from Mars will be a million to one.
As likely as that?

dead_pan
5th Nov 2013, 21:56
Well, good for them. I hope a certain Prof Pillinger wasn't involved in the project in any capacity.

As joked on HIGNFY:

Host: "How will we know when its arrived?"
Paul Merton: "When we lose contact with it"

galaxy flyer
5th Nov 2013, 22:14
Let's see, they launch a Mars probe and have that dump in Mumbai called an airport. Think they need to work on their priorities.

GF

loveflyingalways
5th Nov 2013, 23:20
If the mars probe picks up something and want to land back in India firstly the Indian government will ask bribe to let in land back in India

AtomKraft
5th Nov 2013, 23:45
I bet most ppruners don't know that the UK is the only country that had its own space program.......and abandoned it.

Well, did YOU know that? :ooh:

galaxy flyer
5th Nov 2013, 23:47
If they try to land it at Mumbai, it'll out of radio contact for an hour over the Arabian Sea; go direct Bravo Bravo Bravo; hold somewhere for awhile undefined; then get vectored for 40 minutes before touchdown.

GF

Cacophonix
6th Nov 2013, 00:01
can't afford to launch space machinery ourselves, I'm glad to see that we continue to subsidise India

Get your whining shit together, India is kicking our arses...

Oh the humanity.. .

Ravi Shankar - YouTube

Caco

Ascend Charlie
6th Nov 2013, 02:24
The main reason for the Mars shot is to set up a call centre there.:8

Cacophonix
6th Nov 2013, 02:29
The main reason for the Mars shot is to set up a call centre there.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/nerd.gif

Eight seconds later...!

My name if Gupta I am being wanting to help you...

Aagh...!

Caco

jolihokistix
6th Nov 2013, 02:32
Personally speaking I would prefer to probe Venus than Mars... and yes, we should stop those embarrassing annual subsidies to India forthwith. :ugh:

Noah Zark.
6th Nov 2013, 23:01
Get your whining shit together, India is kicking our arses...

........and we are paying them handsomely to do it!

dead_pan
11th Nov 2013, 13:01
Looks like everything's going swimmingly:

BBC News - Indian Mars mission hit by snag (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24900271)

I'll boldly predict that the spacecraft won't actually make it to our neighbour.

Haraka
11th Nov 2013, 14:58
I bet most ppruners don't know that the UK is the only country that had its
own space program.......and abandoned it.


South Africa?

tony draper
11th Nov 2013, 15:03
Ere a real knowledge of orbital mechanics demonstrated with this gem.
Instead of flying directly to Mars, the probe is scheduled to orbit Earth until the end of the month, building up the necessary velocity to break free from our planet's gravitational pull.
:uhoh:

John Marsh
11th Nov 2013, 15:19
An article linked from below that BBC report cites Indian 'national pride' in beating China in the Asian space race as a benefit from the launch.

It would be interesting - albeit unlikely - if India sought national pride through beating China in caring for its sick, starving and homeless people.

OFSO
11th Nov 2013, 15:48
Bad news, yesterdays scheduled burn failed to raise the apogee to the required level.

fleigle
11th Nov 2013, 16:57
Well they'll know how to fix it, the call centre is just next door.
:E f

sitigeltfel
11th Nov 2013, 17:54
They were obviously using Khorma grade fuel. To achieve a good strong burn from the tailpipe they should have used Madras strength propellant. :ooh:

MG23
11th Nov 2013, 18:16
Ere a real knowledge of orbital mechanics demonstrated with this gem.
Instead of flying directly to Mars, the probe is scheduled to orbit Earth until the end of the month, building up the necessary velocity to break free from our planet's gravitational pull.

That seemed pretty bizarre to me, too; a single burn is usually more efficient, unless you can take advantage of fluctuations in the gravity field caused by the Moon's orbit to gain additional energy.

Hopefully, given how little the writer appears to know about spaceflight, the situation will turn out to be nowhere near as bad as it's portrayed.

dead_pan
11th Nov 2013, 18:54
Bad news, yesterdays scheduled burn failed to raise the apogee to the required level.

Well, half-way to Mars wouldn't be so bad, would it? I'm sure the view from there would be lovely.

OFSO - I recall you have some previous experience with the Indians with regard to their nascent space programme...

MG23 - be verrry careful what you say about Mr Draper, nor be taken in by his apparent low post count. Said individual has been here pretty much since the beginning, and is revered hereabouts. PPRuNe royalty, you could say.

Dak Man
11th Nov 2013, 18:58
Is it a Sputputputputnik?

tony draper
11th Nov 2013, 19:02
I think Mr MG was agreeing with me Mr Dead Pan,just staying in orbit would not increase your velocity so it is a rather daft statement in that article.
:)

MG23
11th Nov 2013, 19:08
I think Mr MG was agreeing with me Mr Dead Pan,just staying in orbit would not increase your velocity so it is a rather daft statement in that article.
:)

Oops, yes, I was referring to the writer of the quoted article, and agreeing with you that it was very silly.

dead_pan
11th Nov 2013, 19:23
Oops, my bad - mucho apologianos chaps. :ok:

Andu
11th Nov 2013, 19:31
...and 'rich' countries like Australia are still giving them many millions of dollars a year in aid.

WTF??????

Miraculix
11th Nov 2013, 19:42
This was the fourth in a series of five engine burns known as "midnight manoeuvres" because several constraints require that they are carried out in the early hours of the morning.

I didn't know they had noise abatement procedures and a curfew on when to do engine burns in space :ooh:

dead_pan
11th Nov 2013, 19:44
I'm beginning to think this may be a massive own goal for the Indians. Its all well and good tinkering with a space programme on the ground, but to then launch a mission with such an ambitious goal and have it (apparently) fail so spectacularly early on is only going to make people think they're taking the p1ss with all the aid they are receiving from various countries.

OFSO
11th Nov 2013, 19:44
OFSO - I recall you have some previous experience with the Indians with regard to their nascent space programme...

I'm sure they have learned a lot since then. One thing I remember is the guys arriving from Ahamadabad at the control centre at Darmstadt - in winter. Darmstadt can get as cold as -15c and dry, but more often it's -5 and slushy-wet. So here's the Indian Flight Control Team getting off the 747 at Frankfurt a.M. wearing paper-thin winter coats and shoes soled in cardboard. Or maybe tissue-paper. They tended to stay on duty in the warm most of the time.....

Contrast that with the meteorologists from Saudi who arrived in Germany with cold weather clothing. When asked, they said "it gets mighty cold at night in the desert in the Kingdom".

tony draper
11th Nov 2013, 20:09
First man made object to reach and orbit Mars was in 1964,getting into space exploration is ok but why repeat a exercise done the thick end of fifty years ago?
:uhoh:

Thomas coupling
11th Nov 2013, 20:13
Anyone seen "Gravity" yet? I gave it 6/10.:ok:

Cacophonix
11th Nov 2013, 21:00
http://www.marsjournal.org/contents/2007/0002/files/wooster_mars_2007_0002.pdf

Specifically see the Draper labs trajectory option... ;)

Caco

wiggy
11th Nov 2013, 21:21
First man made object to reach and orbit Mars was in 1964

Sorry to be a pedant but not quite, the first fly-bys were in 64-65, the first Mars orbiter was Mariner 9 in 71'ish.....that said I agree, it was a long time ago and even if this Indian mission gets to Mars I suspect it will add very little to our knowledge of the planet.

Cacophonix
11th Nov 2013, 21:25
that said I agree, it was a long time ago and even if this Indian mission gets to Mars I suspect it will add very little to our knowledge of the planet.

Possibly but their endeavour will add a lot to their orbital insertion techniques and will push the Indian space programme forward.

Now let's talk about the British space programme.... :uhoh:

Caco

tony draper
11th Nov 2013, 21:31
You are correct Mr W,the 64 and 65 shots were fly bys not orbital missions.:\

Cacophonix
11th Nov 2013, 21:39
Tale of the Mars tape....

A complete list of the world's launch attempts in the
direction of Mars

Russia's unmanned missions to Mars (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/spacecraft_planetary_mars.html)

Caco

tony draper
11th Nov 2013, 21:46
Pretty swift progress when you think the first satellite in earth orbit was just three years before, I remember when it was on the news Sputnik !, peeps coming to their front doors and discussing it with neighbors,people did things like that in the olden days when I were a lad.
:)

TWT
12th Nov 2013, 06:02
Glitch removed, India's Mars mission back on track - Hindustan Times (http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/mars-mission-normal-after-engine-glitch-isro/article1-1150099.aspx)

500N
12th Nov 2013, 06:06
Tony

Did you ever go outside and try to spot the odd satellite as it went over ?

They were few and far between then.

Now, I reckon it would only take a few minutes to pick on in the sky.

tony draper
12th Nov 2013, 06:59
Yer we probably saw more of the early satellites than most folks, remember seeing the ECHO 1 which is probably the brightest object ever launched,twere a huge silvered inflatable balloon for bouncing telly pictures off.
Of course there are more of em than one could shake a stick at now.
:)

OFSO
12th Nov 2013, 08:55
Now, I reckon it would only take a few minutes to pick one in the sky.

Go to the heavens above website, enter your coordinates, look at the predicts for the iss. You can spend a pleasant few minutes waiting for it to pop up over the horizon - and indeed, how many other satellites can you also see.

Note if you haven't done it before: the "brightness" of solar objects, i.e. the spacecraft, is expressed in a negative fashion, hence -2 is brighter than -1 and -3 brighter than -2.

On the predicts anything brighter than -1 is worth watching.

dead_pan
12th Nov 2013, 14:16
Go to the heavens above website, enter your coordinates, look at the predicts for the iss. You can spend a pleasant few minutes waiting for it to pop up over the horizon - and indeed, how many other satellites can you also see.

Indeed, an excellent website. The lad and I routinely use it - we got to see the last Shuttle-ISS 'chase' a few years back, which by good fortune happened to be visible from the UK (and for once the skies were clear).

radeng
12th Nov 2013, 17:42
There's been 120 amateur radio satellites alone launched since 1961.

500N
12th Nov 2013, 17:48
OFSO

Thanks for that :ok:

When I have a few minutes, I will do that as it would be interesting to know what I am looking at !!!

dead_pan
14th Nov 2013, 12:55
Another emerging space superpower?

BBC News - Lebanon?s forgotten space programme (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24735423)

The bit about their rockets' "dual-use" possibilities raised a wry smile - Werner v-B would have been proud.