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airship
5th Nov 2013, 16:39
Please do excuse me, but I've been seeing almost everyone appearing on TV sporting "poppy appeal" accessories in their lapels...?! And well in advance of the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month etc. :confused:

For example, all Sky News reporters have been wearing "normal-size" ones for the past few days. With the exception of the current Sky News "anchor" Mr. Whatsisname, who only has a minute-form of the poppy reminiscent of the "pins" which once existed and all the fads a decade ago, in his own lapel.

Also, almost every UK politician in the house/s; UK (or other) citizens brought before a UK court to answer accusations together with their legal representatives; and everyone else also appearing on TV today and well before the "real day", as if that might affect any outcome/s...?! :}

So what gives? You buy a poppy yourself for 1 (or the TV company / political party you work for buys several 100s of poppies, distributes them to their members etc.) Does it change anything?

Just because you wear a "poppy" in your lapel shouldn't mean you're anymore or less likely to be respected. Unless of course, you wear the "poppy" a little bit too early. Thinking that it in some way excuses any improper or lazy behaviour...

Sincerely, airship (not wearing any "poppy" lapels)... :* :sad:

WeeJeem
5th Nov 2013, 17:02
Just because you wear a "poppy" in your lapel shouldn't mean you're anymore or less likely to be respected.


Perhaps it shouldn't, but it does. Certainly for those of us long enough in the tooth to remember public reaction to Michael Foot at the Cenotaph, with poppy but wearing That Jacket...

tony draper
5th Nov 2013, 17:07
Someone has dropped a right clanger round here,normally all the corner shops have a tray of Poppies and a collecting tin for their regular customers,none have this year,the lady in the corner shop I patronize said some new organization had taken over and it was all computerized now,nuff said,according to Bro Draper some of the big shops dont have poppies either
Hopefully it's just this one town but I would not bet on it, haven't managed to get a poppy yet.
:uhoh:

Lightning Mate
5th Nov 2013, 17:17
WTF is this thread about please ?

Dushan
5th Nov 2013, 17:25
^^
This:
Honour and Remember | The Poppy Campaign | The Royal Canadian Legion (http://www.legion.ca/honour-remember/the-poppy-campaign/)

Lightning Mate
5th Nov 2013, 17:28
As an ex-service officer and a family military history going back over 100 years, I don't need a lecture.

Flypro
5th Nov 2013, 18:12
I don't think anybody can pin a poppy to their jacket without at least a nanosecond's thought as to why they are doing it - and this even applies to journalists and politicians!!

Far better we 'big up' poppy day rather than quietly let it disappear into the long grass.

We will ALWAYS owe those who gave their lives for us.

At the eleventh hour of the eleventh day in the eleventh month I will stop what I'm doing (if I'm driving I will pull over and park), and have a quiet few moments thinking of my friends in the military who have died and my uncle who was killed in WW2 and whose christian name I inherited.

ShyTorque
5th Nov 2013, 18:19
Seems to me that some have nothing better to do with their day than look for stuff to whinge about.

Big Hammer
5th Nov 2013, 18:23
Not seen any poppies for sale round here yet, not in the pubs or shops but my campervan is covered in them. Will have to visit the Legion I think to buy one,

vulcanised
5th Nov 2013, 19:48
I don't need a lecture.

I don't think you got one, looked like an answer to

WTF is this thread about please ?

radeng
5th Nov 2013, 20:10
Bought one in my local butcher's shop (black humour - appropriate) a week ago last Saturday. Have a problem when the cat jumps on my lap - she wants to chew it!

BUT

In Flanders fields the poppies grow
Beside the crosses
Row on row.....

post 1945 - Greece, Palestine, China, Korea, Kenya, Malaya, Borneo, Egypt, Ulster, Cyprus, Falklands, Sierra Leone, Iraq, Afghanistan.......and I've probably forgotten some. So I don't object to people wearing poppies early. As the Muslim and and his wife who turned out for every funeral procession from Lyneham through Royal Wootton Bassett said "They died so we can be free".

Rossian
5th Nov 2013, 20:44
.....however, he has a point in that it is all of a part with Christmas starting in September, Easter in the immediate aftermath of Christmas, general election campaign starting today(according to BBC's Nick Robinson) and now Remembrance Sunday in mid October.

He's not ALWAYS wrong.....

The Ancient Mariner

BenThere
5th Nov 2013, 22:27
Whatever you call it, Remembrance Day, Veteran's Day - it's a solemn acknowledgement to real men who died, often in agonizing, hopeless circumstances, trying to uphold the commitments their nations foisted upon them, and to which they answered with honor. All to keep the freedom and independence we have enjoyed alive.

Utmost respect for those guys, and sorrow that their lives were cut short.

gingernut
5th Nov 2013, 22:36
Apologies if you've seen the photo before. It's called "Lest We Forget..." It was taken a few years ago, after a long walk, which took in both the lively hotel "The Atlantic" and the very Solemn atmosphere of the war memorial in Newquay.

In response to your post Lightning Mate, it's about remembering those that have fallen in the cause of war.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/gingernut123/DSC_01002_zps116bdcbe.jpg

Dak Man
5th Nov 2013, 23:08
I have a small metal poppy pin that I wear every day, for me remembrance is not just about this date or that date, it's ad infinitum - simples.

airship
6th Nov 2013, 17:11
Rossian, thanks for your quite unexpected support... :ok:

ShyTorque wrote: Seems to me that some have nothing better to do with their day than look for stuff to whinge about. and BenThere who wrote: Whatever you call it, Remembrance Day, Veteran's Day...

NO! Whilst I might have much to whinge about on a daily basis, what actually got my goat was the pompous Sky News anchor wearing the "pins" poppy, as if it was much more stylish than wearing an ordinary plastic poppy. His voice is also very irritating. And there is an important difference between "Remembrance Day" and "Veteran's Day" BenThere...?!

What I don't appreciate are the media in general very cheaply taking advantage of whatever "profits" wearing poppies, well in advance of what 11th November might bring, without at the same time showing any reports or documentaries of the events... :sad:

There can't be many WWI veterans or just survivors left out there today (on any side). So let's not cheapen the 11th November and "poppy appeal" prematurely because todays' media (or others here) don't understand the significance.

Next Monday, 11th November 2013 will be a public holiday here in France. But there was already serious talk (between unions and employers here) several years ago of removing this "public holiday" from the calendar. My personal opinion is that the "dead" of that era, would be gratified to know that 11/11 was a public holiday in their remembrance. They would be chuffed, even if most of just take the day off and do little "remembrance".

I'd like to think that from wherever they are now, witnessing an innocent day out by the average family with simply the "day off" would warm their souls... :ok:

ATNotts
6th Nov 2013, 17:23
Not a wind up, but a serious question that hopefully one of the BBC journalists that lurk on these forums might be able to answer.

Every presenter and guest on BBC programmes in the run up to Remembrance Day wears a poppy, whereas in the "real world" I would say the proportion of "poppy wearers" is around 50%.

If a guest refused to wear a poppy, would they be banned from appearing?

anotherthing
6th Nov 2013, 18:00
OP wrote (my bold)So what gives? You buy a poppy yourself for 1 (or the TV company / political party you work for buys several 100s of poppies, distributes them to their members etc.) Does it change anything?It gives money to the RBL... so yes, it will change things for some ex-servicemen, as well as being a way of showing respect to those who have and continue to lay down their life so that people have the freedom to, for example, write shyte on internet forums without being locked up :ugh:

airship
6th Nov 2013, 19:09
When did you "die" or are not yet "locked-up" yerself anotherthing: It gives money to the RBL... so yes, it will change things for some ex-servicemen, as well as being a way of showing respect to those who have and continue to lay down their life so that people have the freedom to, for example, write shyte on internet forums without being locked up

I'm getting a bit tired. Surely it should be our governments (and not some charity or charities) who should be 100% responsible for looking after their (1st WW veterans) and their everyday needs properly and adequately?

Whatever, I'm all for everyone being able to "write shyte on internet forums without being locked up", whether it's you or I. Whether or not that's what they were fighting over back in 1914... :confused:

BenThere
6th Nov 2013, 19:39
And there is an important difference between "Remembrance Day" and "Veteran's Day" BenThere...?!


Enlighten me please. I've always thought they were both of the same sentiment and motivation. US has never addressed any sort of "Remembrance" day, but "Veteran's Day" has been our salute to the vets of WW1 as well as the long line who followed them in defense of the nation.

Blacksheep
6th Nov 2013, 21:15
We started last Friday. They're not £1:00, they're whatever you choose to give (remember the widows mite, anyone?). Most people do give £1:00 but I greet everyone who approaches, thank them for their donation and bid them Good Night as they leave. Nearly everyone pins their's on as soon as they get them. Remembrance isn't just for 11am on the 11th of November. It's for every day. My poppy adorns the photo of Dad's ship that hangs in our hall from when I get home from the parade, until a new one replaces it the following year. Every time I pass it, I think of him and those of his shipmates who were not so lucky.

BigEndBob
6th Nov 2013, 21:57
From what period does the wearing of the Poppy apply.
All wars, or from the Great War and including wars up to Afghan?

Watched a documentary where an old boy described his treatment in Jap PoW camp. Brought a tear to my eye.
Next day saw another old boy in the local shopping centre rattling a Poppy Appeal tin, so pushed a fiver in and I didn't take a Poppy.
I think the 'Poppy' has become a fashion accessory, with some people wearing enamelled pin badges.
But also, I dislike the way the Poppy Appeal has been hijacked for modern wars, namely any war beyond National Service.
If someone chooses to serve, that is their choice.
Being in the Services is dangerous, like mining.

To me the Poppy represents the sacrifice of hundreds of thousands of conscripted, as well as good meaning volunteers who may not of understood the reality of war or the reasons for going.

There is no excuse for the modern service person that excepts the risks and should be suitable compensated for by the Government and not have to reach out to charities.

Blacksheep
6th Nov 2013, 22:34
Whatever the poppy represents, there is no difference between the sacrifice of those who volunteered and those who were conscripted. The donations are used for the benefit of those who survive and in particular those who received life changing injuries - both physical and mental. As for the young men who died on Flanders fields, of which the poppies are symbolic, most of them were volunteers not conscripts.

Alloa Akbar
7th Nov 2013, 09:06
You could have a good winge about the Sky News anchor about his nefarious motives for wearing a poppy early.. The profiteering / subject hijacking for his own ends b'satrd that he is..

On the other hand...

Maybe the folks on TV recognize that the great War in particular is diminishing in the memory of every day people due to age and the passing of time, many youngsters give little thought to the subject. Therefore by wearing poppies early on TV, they serve as a subtle reminder to those who may have "overlooked" the up coming day??

There is no excuse for the modern service person that excepts the risks and should be suitable compensated for by the Government and not have to reach out to charities.

The question isn't really about the governments morals.. or lack of.

Every Serviceman and woman, whether a willing volounteer or pressed men, deserves the respect and support of the very people they willingly defended and protected. You should really count yourself lucky that there are people in the world who will execute acts of incredible bravery and self sacrifice, all in the name of protecting homelands and freedom and without prior consideration of who will pay for their post war care. You should equally count yourself lucky you are not one of them.

dazdaz1
7th Nov 2013, 15:32
Well said Alloa:ok:

StressFree
7th Nov 2013, 15:57
Alloa,

Spot on sir, well said :D

airship
7th Nov 2013, 16:03
Alloa Akbar (and others), please stop attempting to hijack this thread and "poppy appeal" in general...

PS. The USA was late coming into WWI. A bit quicker in WWII, but nevertheless a bit tardy... :uhoh:

anotherthing
7th Nov 2013, 16:11
Hijack?

You are the one who asked if it changed anything.

Just because someone (a hell of a lot of people, as per usual) doesn't agree with your point of view, it doesn't mean the thread is hijacked. Threads evolve :ugh:

airship
7th Nov 2013, 17:26
anotherthing, I don't mean to cause you or anyone else here any distress. In my own (perhaps twisted mind), one of own pet hates is being lead to believe that some institutions / charities atc. are not always very forthright or noble in all their activities.

I've always considered that the "poppy appeal" especially, was for the direct benefit of the WWI (1914-18) veterans, survivors and their families. I understand that there are as few as 20-25 WWI veterans remaing alive today (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_last_surviving_World_War_I_veterans_by_country).

I'm no easy "push-over" anymore when it comes to giving to charities or whatever, in view of some past mistakes on my part. What I don't appreciate at all are charities who collect donations under the guise of collecting funds for a specific purpose, only to see that these funds are used or diverted to other purposes. A lot of that happened in the wake of the 2004 tsunami, where many charities subsequently used these donations for other un-related projects. Also, I am always instinctively "on the defensive" when it comes to most even well-established charities, with all their fixed overheads, generous salaries and pension plans etc...?! :mad:

It would not be "right" for the British Legion or anyone else IMHO, to use the "poppy appeal" to continue raising funds for the very dwindling remaining WWI survivors, knowing that these funds would be re-allocated for other purposes not specifically-related to WWI. Or increase their TV audiences, attract increased sympathy from their parliamentary constituents etc. by merely wearing poppies in their lapels on TV. Have I managed to make myself sufficiently clear? :uhoh:

500N
7th Nov 2013, 19:09
As an aside, I notice that Prince Phillip is looking a bit gaunt compared to a year ago. Still amazing for his age.

Still looks good in his uniform with earned medals :ok:

axefurabz
7th Nov 2013, 19:48
I've always considered that the "poppy appeal" especially, was for the direct benefit of the WWI (1914-18) veterans, survivors and their families.Perhaps the best place to educate yourself is the Legion's own webpage:

The Royal British Legion - Follow the Poppy (http://poppyspend.britishlegion.org.uk/)

BigEndBob
7th Nov 2013, 21:24
Having looked at the Poppy appeal site, i'm surprised where the money does go. Might think twice in the future giving money. Obvious the needs of those receiving as changed. I imagined it went to crippled soldiers and those in need of rehabilitation, not cinemas, holidays, etc.

Alloa Akbar
8th Nov 2013, 07:31
Airship,

My opening point was a direct response to your opening post, subject matter wearing poppies early and the reasons thereof.

My second was a response to a later point to another poster as the thread developed.

Either way, if you don't like responses which oppose your view, or you don't like having a debate which evolves, then why the **** are you posting on an internet forum?? :ugh:

PS- Ref your assumption on who or what the poppy appeal supports, suggest you check out the RBL and see exactly what they do.. Its no secret.

Sure they engage in a lot of support activities, but again, I challenge the guys who question the cinema for injured vets, the holidays.. When these guys are under fire in Helmand getting paid their poxy 18k a year, do you think for one second they think about their kids holidays, or if they will be able to afford to take their kids to the cinema before they go into action? Yes they chose to do the job, and yes they get paid (Nearly) but do we really begrudge these people and families a little funded fun time when they risk so much? I don't, I just buy my poppy, sit in my warm plush office reading internet forums and think how lucky I am that I have a successful second career following my exit from the Forces. Many don't.

OK Rant over.. :p

oldpax
8th Nov 2013, 10:44
I have just finished reading a book called "Lonely voices of the Somme" Recollections from soldiers, sailors(yes)and airmen. Read it and weep.
Wearing my poppy now.

airship
8th Nov 2013, 15:03
Blacksheep wrote: We started last Friday. They're not 1:00, they're whatever you choose to give (remember the widows mite, anyone?)...

As Blacksheep wrote above, "they cost whatever you choose to give", even here in the south of France. BTW, got my 2013 poppy today. :ok:

Blacksheep
8th Nov 2013, 17:37
... well in advance of the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month... For example, all Sky News reporters have been wearing "normal-size" ones for the past few days.As I said, the RBL collections started last Friday. Friday the 1st of November. Several days before this thread was opened.

StressFree
8th Nov 2013, 17:53
Alloa Akbar,

Yet again sir, well said, good points very well made.

You have my full support :D

arcniz
9th Nov 2013, 10:47
The Future we can change in many ways, but the Past can be changed only by how we choose to remember it.

beamer
10th Nov 2013, 19:42
Going back to the original question, there are those of us who get a little irked when the poppies appear so early in October on the TV presenters, reporters and politicians. This is not to detract for one second the fund raising activities of the British Legion and other long standing service charities with long records of looking after the needs of ex-servicemen and women. It is now politically incorrect for those in the public eye to be seen without a poppy weeks ahead of the 11th November and the traditional ceremonies that take place the weekend before the day itself should the eleventh not fall on a sunday.

In the past 24 hrs I have been at a full rugby club ground (LV cup) in which the silence was observed, a full sunday last post ceremony in my local town, and have observed on TV an immaculate silence before the Man Utd-Arsenal game. Impressive occasions all and held at the correct time around remembrance day.

baggersup
11th Nov 2013, 19:35
Glad folks are clarifying the time period when the poppy is to be worn. I've worn one for years, in the US and in the UK when there, but never was sure when it was proper to begin (or end.)

Remembering is hard sometimes. Especially the older you get and you realize the friends you lost in service when they were 25 or 30 would be pensioners by now, too.

Was up this morning and remembered to turn on BBC News at 6 a.m. Eastern Time to participate (however oddly) in the two-minute silence. Then picked up the old Great War Poetry pocket-sized book and reread McCrea's signature poem "In Flanders Fields," which never fails to move.

A lot of the other war poets' work was more complex and sophisticated than McCrea's but his has stood the test of time and is highly recognizeable by many, unlike other poets.

radeng
11th Nov 2013, 20:00
I still feel the most poignant epitaph is:

"They died that we may be free".


Applies to someone, somewhere, in all the conflicts....

TWT
12th Nov 2013, 19:41
Not very respectful...

Brad Pitt's Fury Director Apologizes for Shooting Nazi Battle Scenes on Remembrance Sunday | E! Online (http://au.eonline.com/news/480157/brad-pitt-s-fury-director-apologizes-for-shooting-nazi-battle-scenes-on-remembrance-sunday)