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Cacophonix
5th Nov 2013, 14:47
I was interested to see this article in the Telegraph today...this chap may be onto something here. What do PPRuNers think?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02721/BABY_2721313b.jpg

Caco

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02721/BABY_2721313b.jpg

Lightning Mate
5th Nov 2013, 14:49
How the :mad: is he expected to eat spaghetti with no utensils.

Can you drink soup using a fork ?

Cacophonix
5th Nov 2013, 14:54
How the http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif is he expected to eat spaghetti with no utensils.

Can you drink soup using a fork ?

You make a good point... you know it does beg questions about how cruel the Swedes really are. I mean they did invent IKEA! :uhoh:

Caco

ShyTorque
5th Nov 2013, 14:57
My toddler son got into the habit of throwing food about from his high chair. The joke soon wore off, but not with him. I told him that if he did it again he would be moved to the garage to eat.

He did, and he was.

He stopped.

Cacophonix
5th Nov 2013, 15:01
Mr Torque

Your very apt garage based approach, as heart wrenching as it might have been for him, may have just adjusted his manifold disobedience and set him on the road to obedient success.

Clearly you are a member of the garage based authoritarian school. ;)

Caco

ShyTorque
5th Nov 2013, 15:18
Caco, he's certainly calmed down a bit and no longer throwing food about, at least not in our kitchen. ;)

He's now the business manager of a major insurance group and is getting married soon.

Phalconphixer
5th Nov 2013, 18:07
Many moons ago my wife, my 10 year old son and I shared a large ('suitable for 2 families' it said in the brochure) River Thames Cruiser with another family that we had met individually on a previous holiday.
This family comprised Mum, Dad and an extremely precocious little 5 year old brat of a son. Brat was waited on hand and foot, his every whim being met. Close to Maidenhead, he demanded an ice-cream, his third of the day. We had none left in the fridge. The tantrums had to be seen to be believed.
Needless to say we had to stop and moor up adjacent to Maidenhead Bridge to go and find some... brat decided he wanted to be the Captain,Navigator and helmsman and promptly steered the fibreglass boat hard into the concrete walls putting a rather large hole in the prow and a long crack in the forward deck...
His father dragged him away from the controls and made a fresh approach and tied off. My wife, son and I went off in search of ice-cream, leaving we hoped, the brats Mum and Dad to give him a talking to.
We returned to find the brat running around on the flat roof of the cruiser, totally unsupervised, his mother and father initially nowhere in sight. As we made our way into the small galley, Mum and Dad appeared from their bedroom, looking red faced, decidedly disheveled and minimally dressed..."Oh your back sooner than we expected...Would you mind keeping an eye on Michael for a few minutes?" asked Mum...
We had been away from the boat for about an hour... Our joint response was voiced in no uncertain terms by my wife... "Yes, we bl**dy well would mind... your brat, you watch him."
A couple of hours later at teatime... Superbrat accidentally discovered that if he coughed with a mouthful of food in his mouth it tended to get sprayed all over the table. Fawning all over her son, the mother showed what I thought was a little too much concern...
To quote Auric Goldfinger, 'Once may be happenstance, twice coincidence, three times its enemy action...'
On third and definitely deliberate cough and spray, my own son asked if he could leave the table... his request was immediately agreed to and he and my wife pushed their plates aside and went to leave the cabin...
"What wrong," asked Superbrat's mum.
My 10 year had been the brunt of much of the brats attentions. With a completely straight face he answered her...
"Nothing" he said, we'll come back when the pig has finished at the trough...!"
The river trip had started two days before at a marina in Reading; we hadn't really got around to unpacking... We had a quick family meeting on the rear deck and decided to quit... it was only going to be a matter of time before my son (or me, or my wife) chucked the little sh*t off the roof.
We were still tied up alongside Maidenhead Bridge, a suitable jumping of point to get a bus or a train back to Reading... Brat's family would later have to explain the damage to the boat... Strangely enough, we never heard from them again...

racedo
5th Nov 2013, 19:16
Palcon

Good on you.

Always taken the view that kids have a certain amount of freedom until it starts to become obnoxious or likely to hurt someone. Then its a Stop...............loudly but firm. (My kids kill themselves laughing when i do it)

Friends of littlies come round they know the rules after 1st visit, one parent unhappy until their littlie not invited again...............she never told sprog off for anything.

Playground gossip was I was mean until the kid visited a few houses.....once only it seemed and after someones birthday party ruined by a tantrum the mum copped on a bit and asked for a bit of help from other mums.

SpringHeeledJack
5th Nov 2013, 21:03
It's only going to get worse regrettably, due in the main to the effects of an ever more ego-centric and narcissistic society. Yes there are still plenty of nice kids brought up by nice parents, but way too many rudderless beings unable and uninterested to raise their offspring, preferring to sub-contract this important duty to third parties or the offerings of the multi-media world whilst having 'me time'. Each generation seems to be leading the next further towards a meeting with the principles of Darwinism.

It seems that, in general, too many of the parents (mums especially) are scared of being disciplinarian toward their children and try to be their mates and/or kow-towing to all demands superfluous, driven by an innate sense of guilt caused by physical abscences chosen and unchosen from their children. Modern life is hard on families, no longer is it financially viable for most to live from one wage alone, but if we decide to have children, then sacrifices are called for and should be welcomed as a choice rather than festering as resentment towards the kids, partner, life etc.




SHJ

Worrals in the wilds
5th Nov 2013, 23:46
It seems that, in general, too many of the parents (mums especially) are scared of being disciplinarian toward their children and try to be their mates and/or kow-towing to all demands superfluous,
I agree. I also think that many mothers are terrified of telling their child off in public, thinking that everyone will immediately turn on them for being abusive and horrible.

Of course the opposite is generally true, but there are enough fluff-bunny do-gooders doing exactly that (like it's any of their business unless they're witnessing serious abuse :rolleyes:) that a lot of women won't say or do anything remotely agressive in the way of discipline, for fear of being rounded on by perfect strangers.

Of course there are also the incompetent parents who don't care, and Phalconphixer's companions sound exactly like that. Their parents were probably the same, which is why they ended up so selfish.

Krystal n chips
6th Nov 2013, 03:44
About that photograph posted by DX......and this statement

" How the is he expected to eat spaghetti with no utensils.

Can you drink soup using a fork " emanating as if does from a former officer ( thanks for letting us know )....it brings back happy memories from a long time ago, when, a certain gliding club went for an Italian meal.

Said officer, possibly partial to red wine, duly demonstrated the social skills required when, about half way through the spaghetti, he apologised to the assembled diners, moved his knife and fork, gazed at the meal and duly collapsed, face first in slow motion onto the plate with only a minimal "splat"! sound and with only the minimal evidence to support Archimedes principle......we were suitably impressed as his bottle(s) of wine were now available to the rest of the table.:p

Phalconphixer
6th Nov 2013, 13:13
racedo...Always taken the view that kids have a certain amount of freedom until it starts to become obnoxious or likely to hurt someone. Then its a Stop...............loudly but firm. (My kids kill themselves laughing when I do it)

Thirty five years on I adopt the same approach with my housepack of Spanish rescue dogs... and get a very similar response!
Not having a garden or patio where they can let off steam, they are essentially housebound BUT... this is no bad thing really. All spent a long time as street dogs and all suffered from the typically Spanish reaction to street dogs, starvation, dehydration, stoning and maltreatment. All have suffered from heat exhaustion during the summer and near hypothermia during the winter. Four of them (and two others that we have rehomed in the UK) had never known what it was to live in a house, with the net result that what was once a two bedroomed town house is now a two bedroomed kennel...
There is a disused 5-a-side football cum multisport court at the top of the village where they can do their own thing at least once a day and they get a minimum of 3 or 4 regular walks.
I allow short 15 minute periods of 'dogs will be dogs' in the house when all hell breaks loose but the single command 'Basta!' (tr. enough!) brings an immediate positive response.

Regarding the Superbrat...

SHJ... It's only going to get worse regrettably, due in the main to the effects of an ever more ego-centric and narcissistic society. Yes there are still plenty of nice kids brought up by nice parents, but way too many rudderless beings unable and uninterested to raise their offspring, preferring to sub-contract this important duty to third parties or the offerings of the multi-media world whilst having 'me time'. Each generation seems to be leading the next further towards a meeting with the principles of Darwinism.

So very, very, true. I was brought up as the eldest of four kids (and the only male) in a rough neighbourhood; My father was totally authoritarian to the point which these days would be seen as positively violent towards us and it was always my mum that had to intercede on our behalf, often receiving a thumping herself in the process.
None of us kids turned out to be bad parents...we all had children of our own and determined not to subject them to the same harsh environment. We were strict with our respective offspring but allowed them certain freedoms; but they knew just when to stop... Preferred punishments were psychological rather than physical; grounding for a week or so, withholding pocket money or sweets or comics. This was of course in the days when personal entertainment was limited to a Dansette record player!(Yeuch!)

Last week in Gosport Hampshire two young girls were mown down by a car and tragically one suffered fatal injuries. Whilst acknowledging the fact that there may be extenuating circumstances, one has to ask the question "What were two young girls aged 14 and 16 doing out on their own walking the streets at 4am on a Sunday morning?" Hell's teeth, Gosport is bad enough during the day but at night its absolutely dire! What the hell were the parents thinking about? Could it be that as Worrals suggests

... many mothers are terrified of telling their child off in public, thinking that everyone will immediately turn on them for being abusive and horrible.
Of course the opposite is generally true, but there are enough fluff-bunny do-gooders doing exactly that (like it's any of their business unless they're witnessing serious abuse ) that a lot of women won't say or do anything remotely agressive in the way of discipline, for fear of being rounded on by perfect strangers...

Such an approach to parenting is just plain wrong and the kids react accordingly knowing they can get away with it... whatever it may be!

One has only to look at the development of the 'Chav' 'Got to have it now' mentality to realise that something is seriously wrong in increasingly larger swathes of society today where it seems nothing and no-one least of all parents is or are respected.

Here in our little Spanish village, the kids are out playing in the streets or in the school yard until well past midnight during the summer; sure they can be noisy or mischievous but they all respect their elders, be they related or not.

Sadly in the UK its all gone too far and there can be no turning back. Until the courts start handing out punishments that fit the crime rather than the huggy-fluffy ASBO's and meaningless community Service Orders, kids of Chav age will just carry on, producing yet more Chavettes...

MagnusP
6th Nov 2013, 14:09
Can you drink soup using a fork?

Yes. Would you like MrsP's recipe for jellied gazpacho? Delish.

ExXB
6th Nov 2013, 14:38
Parenting is the most important job in the world, and we don't teach it. In the days of nuclear families new parents learned through osmosis. Today ... they don't, learn that is.

ShyTorque
6th Nov 2013, 15:22
"What were two young girls aged 14 and 16 doing out on their own walking the streets at 4am on a Sunday morning?" Hell's teeth, Gosport is bad enough during the day but at night its absolutely dire! What the hell were the parents thinking about?

There's no guarantee that the parents were aware they were out. Friends of ours have a teenaged daughter, of a similar age to our own. Our daughter told us how shocked she was to discover that the other girl was in the habit of climbing out of her bedroom window (to defeat the burglar alarm zone set downstairs) after her parents had gone to sleep, to attend parties. If your offspring does that without your knowledge there's not much you can do about it.

Dushan
6th Nov 2013, 15:50
PPRuNers think that Mr. Caco shouldn't be posting pictures of himself outside of the "pictures" thread.