PDA

View Full Version : Ok now things are getting out of hand


SOPS
5th Nov 2013, 06:08
Taxpayers' £10,000 bill to teach failed asylum seeker to fly | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2487444/Taxpayers-10-000-teach-failed-asylum-seeker-fly.html)

SOPS
5th Nov 2013, 06:19
And I note that he had a lawyer to help him get this........:ugh::ugh:

perthsaint
5th Nov 2013, 06:43
They sound like the sort of ambitious and resouceful young men who will be a credit to the country. The taxes they will pay over a lifetime will more than cover the costs of their education.

Good luck to them.

Lightning Mate
5th Nov 2013, 06:47
Good luck to them.

Whose side are you on ?

doubleu-anker
5th Nov 2013, 06:49
FFS! Now I've heard it all now.

What about the poor single widowed mother with 3 kids trying to scratch a living? What about... oh I give up.

7x7
5th Nov 2013, 07:05
Wouldn't you love to listen in to the conversation between this budding aviator and his mates "back home" in Addis?

Is it any wonder you have tens of thousands of people lining up at Calais to hitch a ride on the next truck to Dover?

We've had some crazy decisions made by government here in Oz over the last six years in regard to overgenerous benefits to so-called asylum seekers, but, a bit like the cricket of late, "youse blokes" in the Old Dart have well and truly "taken home the Ashes" in the crazy stakes with this decision by your courts.

500N
5th Nov 2013, 07:09
""youse blokes" in the Old Dart have well and truly "taken home the Ashes" in the crazy stakes with this decision by your courts."

And quite a few others, a fair few of which relates to listening to the EU Courts
and human rights BS Legislation.

The mind boggles how they have handed over so much control which
I think they might be looking at taking back, or I hope so.

Dash8driver1312
5th Nov 2013, 08:06
I'd love to have only paid 10g to make me employable as a pilot...

HuntandFish
5th Nov 2013, 08:14
Just listend to an interview with his lawyer on Radio4. There does appear to be a different side to this story . Has the Mail go it wrong?

Worrals in the wilds
5th Nov 2013, 08:17
Just what the world needs; more unemployed pilots. :hmm:
Surely it would have been more productive to pay them to train in a trade/profession where there's a shortage? Doctors and dentists spring to mind.

Lon More
5th Nov 2013, 08:31
Labour-controlled Newcastle city council fought the claim in the Administrative Court and the Court of Appeal, but lost

Unusual for the Fail to note this

dead_pan
5th Nov 2013, 09:07
Just listend to an interview with his lawyer on Radio4. There does appear to be a different side to this story . Has the Mail go it wrong?

Well what a surprise.

The Daily Telegraph has had a slew of articles this week about immigration. I also see they've laid the boot in to the CBI for having the temerity to suggest that staying in the EU would be in Britain's interest.

Nemrytter
5th Nov 2013, 09:20
Has the Mail go it wrong?Surely not! They're well known for their reliable and truthful journalism. Oh, wait...:E

cattletruck
5th Nov 2013, 10:13
Now he can fly in his extended family, let them claim asylum and get their wings.

Why not save on lawyer fees and just give the keys to the RAF.

500N
5th Nov 2013, 10:28
Cattletruck

A new form of manned target drone ?

No cost to the RAF ?

Capot
5th Nov 2013, 11:22
The Mail story was, predictably, a sensationalised version of selected elements of the whole story.

I cannot understand how anyone can ever take a Daily Mail story seriously. The rag has replaced the Sunday Sport (or whatever it was called) with its completely fabricated "stories".

Except that the Daily Mail's fabricated stories are aimed at stirring the pot of hatred and racism, rather than just being entertaining, as the Sunday Sport was.

For a start, the victim of this article was not a "failed asylum seeker"; the rag simply used that expression to make the story more interesting to its rabid readers.

sitigeltfel
5th Nov 2013, 12:37
The Mail story was, predictably, a sensationalised version of selected elements of the whole story.

Which elements of this story, repeated in other publications and media, are untrue?

Blacksheep
5th Nov 2013, 13:57
£10,000 will barely cover the PPL, then he moves on for the CPL and twin rating. What next? :ugh:

Cacophonix
5th Nov 2013, 14:03
£10,000 will barely cover the PPL, then he moves on for the CPL and twin rating. What next? :ugh:


Hell he might as well go for his IR and then just do his helicopter rating for fun. In fact he could post his progress on this thread. It would make for good reading and the outrage and fulmination would be most amusing to behold. ;)

Caco

Evanelpus
5th Nov 2013, 14:09
Now he can fly in his extended family, let them claim asylum and get their wings.

I was rather hoping the flights would have been in the opposite direction!:ok:

Cacophonix
5th Nov 2013, 14:20
He might go and try for a 787 rating, Ethiopian have/had at least one of these... ;)

Ethiopian | 787 - Africa's First Dreamlinear (http://www.ethiopianairlines.com/en/info/787_ethiopian.aspx)


Caco

Edited to say, he should have taken up running and then he would have suddenly been given a British passport and everybody would be smiling.

Capot
6th Nov 2013, 10:19
Which elements of this story, repeated in other publications and media, are untrue?

Well, for a start, he was/is not a "failed asylum seeker" in the perjorative sense that the headline writer intended you to understand, by suggesting a picture of an East European beggar - aka "failed asylum seeker" - being discovered in a container. He has been in the UK for many years, perfectly legally.

The problem is that the Daily Mail destroys what is a very valid case for not handing out money like this to such people by dressing it up with rabid exaggeration designed to please its readers by feeding their prejudice; in short, exaggerating - or lying - to sell more papers.

ShyTorque
6th Nov 2013, 10:24
If he wants to fly, give him a one way airline ticket.

Fliegenmong
6th Nov 2013, 10:49
Capot -

The problem is that the Daily Mail destroys what is a very valid case for not handing out money like this to such people by dressing it up with rabid exaggeration designed to please its readers by feeding their prejudice; in short, exaggerating - or lying - to sell more papers.

Got it in one I'd say Capot! Shame is the readership can't see it.....

dead_pan
6th Nov 2013, 12:42
Now where was that poster who so vehemently defended the Fail when I had the temerity to suggest it had an agenda along these lines? Haven't heard from him for a while.

Actually the Torygraph seems to be trying to out-Fail the Fail on this front. I've lost count of how many leaders its had on its website over the past few weeks with an anti-immigrant bent. I get the sense their limbering up for the mother-of-all-European elections next year.

Cacophonix
7th Nov 2013, 13:05
Here is a little bit more info on this story, the kind of stuff that The Daily Wail, in its majesty, never goes out of its way to tell!

Giving the other side: the story behind the asylum seeker's flying lessons that caused fuss in the 'Daily Mail' - Home News - UK - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/giving-the-other-side-the-story-behind-the-asylum-seekers-flying-lessons-that-caused-fuss-in-the-daily-mail-8924391.html)

I hope this guy gets his licence!

Caco

BigEndBob
7th Nov 2013, 15:24
Read the article, still convinced. Be good if every parent dumped their kids in another for them to look after.

Nick Riviera
7th Nov 2013, 19:13
Now where was that poster who so vehemently defended the Fail when I had the temerity to suggest it had an agenda along these lines? Haven't heard from him for a while.

That would be me. As you refused to back up your assertion on the thread in question I realised it was a waste of my time to post any further replies there.

gingernut
7th Nov 2013, 23:20
Most of the true wankers I've met are white, young, male and born in this country. And they don't seem to want to work. They seem to fit in the "there's no jobs for us 'cos the foreigners have taken them up" model.

I should imagine that he's had to work hard, and jump through a few hoops to get to this stage. I'm guessing that pilot training isn't easily given away. I suspect that he'll give more back to our great country than he'll take, and I wish him well.

If asylum is the argument, then let's have a separate debate.

LowNSlow
8th Nov 2013, 07:41
The two boys have had it more than tough but I didn't realise that getting reasonable A level results entitled you to:

He did well enough to get a pilot training place at Buckinghamshire University, but turned it down because the fees were £160,000 once flying lessons were included, and he felt bad charging the council such high sums. “I chose a different route because it was cheaper to do the pilot licence first, then go to university to do the rest,” he says.


He felt bad about charging the council such high sums?? It sounds like he assumes that the council would have paid the fees? Please tell me that that is not possible?

FANS
8th Nov 2013, 08:00
He has my sympathy and has had it tough, but take this example:

Mum and Dad work to put a roof over their heads, heating and lighting, but no surplus cash. Their son wants to be a pilot. No such funding for him, but their taxes pay for this other lad to have his flying lessons paid.

Why don't we advertise this route worldwide!

These decisions are great, until it comes to the small matter of paying for them.

Worrals in the wilds
8th Nov 2013, 08:23
I don't have an issue with subsidised training schemes when there is a shortage of applicants. In Australia we have a shortage of doctors, dentists, engineers and also in the skilled trades such as plumbing.

If suitable people without the ready cash want to train in these industries and the country needs them, then IMO providing subsidies is a win-win for all. Disadvantaged talented people get a profession/trade that they couldn't otherwise afford to complete (and get off the welfare/minimum wage treadmill) and the country gets its plumbers and dentists without having to import them.

However, in both the UK and Australia there's no shortage of wannabe pilots; like out of work actors (with apologies to Douglas Adams) it's more like a never-ending surplus :hmm:. Using public money to create more of them seems counter-productive on both fronts; firstly it's a waste of government cash and secondly it creates yet another skilled graduate who costs a lot of money to train and then can't find a job.

It should be a give and take, particularly when (as several posters have pointed out) this opportunity isn't available to everyone.

perthsaint
8th Nov 2013, 09:31
I'm struggling to grasp the idea that this young man is being treated favourably.

Changes in 2011 meant that he couldn't go down the student loan route as his peers could.

Anyone could do what he's doing if they have the appropriate academic qualifications and an appetite for debt.

vee-tail-1
8th Nov 2013, 09:55
If my local council tried to do this I hope many of us would refuse to pay our council tax. However it's not only the council at fault. There are vast numbers of badly implemented new laws being churned out by politicians. These are a gift to lefty lawyers who use them to make money and advance their agenda to destroy what remains of British England.

FANS
8th Nov 2013, 11:24
I'm struggling to grasp the idea that this young man is being treated favourably.

Changes in 2011 meant that he couldn't go down the student loan route as his peers could.

What student loans are available for PPL?

His peers - shall we pay/make loans that banks won't make to every wannabe in the UK and potentially EU?

Lon More
8th Nov 2013, 11:27
Looks like he could be a role model for many British kids. Instead of bunking of school, getting into gangs and drugs he is actually trying to do something with his life.
Damned if they do and damned if they don't by many here.


edited to add, the RAF paid for my PPL. Does that make me a benefit cheat?

perthsaint
8th Nov 2013, 11:30
FANS,

Did you not notice the reference to Buckinghamshire University?

FANS
8th Nov 2013, 11:44
Yes I did, but he's not at Buckingham Uni!

So I ask again - What student loans are available for PPL?

perthsaint
8th Nov 2013, 11:55
His peers would be able to get student loans to go to Bucks Uni and do it that way. He can't.

Blacksheep
8th Nov 2013, 12:46
Its nice to see a bit of balanced reporting for a change.

...did everything instinctively, soaring through the sky and dipping the plane’s wings without flinching.Wow! sounds like a Top Gun. The RAF should snap him up while they have the chance. He'll be soaring through the sky dipping his wings without flinching for British Airways in no time. ;)

FANS
8th Nov 2013, 12:49
He's not at Uni. Lots of people are not at Uni for a variety of reasons - do they qualify for such loans?

StressFree
8th Nov 2013, 15:44
I paid for every penny of my flight training in the 1980's, no tax breaks for self-funding my career, no help at all. I did it all on my own and 25 years later I'm still flying commercially but being taxed up to my nuts for having bettered myself at my own expense.

Why the F are we doing this, chucking away money that tax payers have earned on people like this??? WHY?

:*

perthsaint
9th Nov 2013, 02:33
FANS,

People who aren't at uni tend not to qualify for student loans.

Lone Ranger,

Some evidence to accompany your prejudice would be nice.

Stress Free,

Because, unlike you, he isn't a knuckle-dragger.

StressFree
9th Nov 2013, 09:48
perthsaint,

You're such a donkey that you actually amuse me.

Could you post more please. We need some humour on these boards.

:)

Lon More
9th Nov 2013, 09:49
From Lone Ranger's link
More data on this comes from the Mail on Sunday this week.

Then it must be true http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp154/disnie_of_disja/bth_pinocchio_nose_animated_gif.gif

Cacophonix
9th Nov 2013, 09:51
Lon

I have just spilled my cereal over my key board! ;)

Caco

Cacophonix
9th Nov 2013, 09:57
I paid for every penny of my flight training in the 1980's, no tax breaks for
self-funding my career, no help at all. I did it all on my own and 25 years
later I'm still flying commercially but being taxed up to my nuts for having
bettered myself at my own expense.

Why the F are we doing this, chucking
away money that tax payers have earned on people like this??? WHY?



People like what? What do you know about this guy?. You seem to harbour an ugly form of jealousy underpinned by something even uglier, if I am not misconstruing your comments.

There is almost a form of special pleading bordering on self pity therein. Get it over man. At least we aren't having to pay to keep this kid in prison or whatever. I wish him the best in getting into the air.

Caco

StressFree
9th Nov 2013, 10:05
Caco,

You're either being deliberately provocative or you're out of touch......

Spending many thousands on this man when he has to leave the UK next year is a questionable use of public money, how is the average Joe also supported with these lavish gifts? Can I apply for my son to get his training paid for? No of course I can't.......and yet its me who's paid a fortune in taxation into my country but without means to access things like flying lessons.

Try turning up in this gentlemans native country and ask for state funded flying lessons and you'll be laughed out of the room.

:eek:

Cacophonix
9th Nov 2013, 10:27
Try turning up in this gentlemans native country and ask for state funded flying lessons and you'll be laughed out of the room.

True but my guess is that this young fellow will not be sent home to a totally uncertain future in his country of birth and therefore this money might be being wisely spent on a potential asset to the British workforce.

Of course I may be wrong.

I might have been somewhat provocative (in a foul mood so sorry if my post was a bit on the aggressive side). :ok:

Caco

StressFree
9th Nov 2013, 10:30
Caco,

No worries old chap, I like a robust debate!

:)

SOPS
9th Nov 2013, 13:42
This story is the gift that just keeps on giving

Katamarino
9th Nov 2013, 14:03
I hope this guy gets his licence!

So, Caco, are you still this guy's biggest fan? :rolleyes: Well done to the Independent for supporting this fine, upstanding "young" man. They clearly researched the case very well.