Do YOU work for a great company!

[saddest aviator]

We all on these forums spend an awful lot of our time whining about the BAD companies/ agencies, many of us whinge, fewer are prepared to do much about it. HOW ABOUT A CHANGE OF EMPHASIS DO YOU WORK FOR A GREAT COMPANY? How about a little free advertising for the Great guys out there. The Great Managements, great t's and c's etc etc.
Surely there must be companies out in the world that are a sheer joy to work for!!! Sensitive to their staff and passenger needs , a fun even joyful experience to get to work at 0300 on a november wet monday morning!!!!
LET US BRING A LITTLE JOY TO THIS WEBSITE FOR A CHANGE!

[Stalker_]

I hear that Ryan air are quite a good airline to work for, they treat there staff and customers well

[saddest aviator]

come on be serious!:rolleyes:

[macdo]

Well, seriously, what did you expect? Most modern employers in the airline industry are pretty poor when you compare them to other walks of life. Although there are obviously worse ones out there. Irrespective of your current t&c's, which may be anything from generous to appalling, most operators operate on a knife edge of profitability which leads them to reflect that in the way they treat their staff. Pilots are normally treated better than other staff, but we are far from immune from the cold commercial reality of 2013. When you see whining on pprune, it often reflects the degradation of our work environment, as well as the incremental de-professionalisation of how we are regarded by the rest of the world, as well as a general reduction in what we get in the pay check.
Maybe a better question is to ask if anyone works for an airline where, in general and over a sustained period of time, they feel 'things' have improved.
Sadly, I still can't think of one. It would be nice to hark back to the days of state flag carriers and the luxurious lifestyles of our predecessors, but they are long, long gone and will never return.

[Nelson15]

I don't know if employers in the 'other walks of life' have it much better to be honest...

[captplaystation]

Nelson15, Yep, I believe we are "not alone" & certainly in aviation don't expect too many responses. I joined a company that I believed (20mths ago) could have given me the opportunity to answer the OP positively . . .but, regretably, it is all going to a piece of :mad: like all the others. Norwegian Air Shuttle (as you asked)


Edited to say, the events of last night may allow me to revaluate whether the glass is half-full, or half-empty :ok:

[v1r8]

Fine ill go ..

Work for one of the 'better' regional airlines in the US.
F/O CRJ 700
Make about 50/60K a year.
Bid mostly 3-day trips.
17 days off this month.
Fly around the world for free on almost all US airlines.. ZED agreements with 25 or so foreign airlines. As do my parents.
Bought a house at 27 driving distance from several ski resorts.

Give a pilot a bag of gold, he will complain how heavy it is.. I'm not rich and run out of money every month. But I'm healthy and happy and have it pretty good..

[v1r8]

That didn't sound to angry or frustrated at all :)

[747JJ]

"Please watch your mouth, unless your opinion on how other people get into the industry is invited."

Don't throw your toys out of the pram like that please, it's just a tidbit silly. You've got some surprises coming for you if you find a job with that attitude.

[macdo]

Sorry, I didn't express myself more clearly. Most employers are little different to airlines in the way they treat their employees these days. But, on a like for like basis, in terms of the status of our particular job, airlines have become poor employers in comparison to those of other professionals. Few, for example, expect you to go into debt to the tune of 100k plus to get the job in the first place.
A then (then being when I was about 20) and now (being 55),

Top 1 percentile salary - lucky to start on a living wage.
Decent Final Salary Pension - useless money purchase scheme or none.
Not dangerously overworked - Pilots falling asleep at work.
Station security - largely you go where they tell you.
Job Security - Zero Hours or Summer Contracts
Being Fed and Watered on Duty - Lucky if you get water supplied
Proper Hotac when rest is needed. - Premier Inn
Positioned by Taxi - Positioned in a Self Drive Car.

These just came off the top of my head, and if you never had the good times in the first place, many wouldn't even notice that they were gone. The fact remains though, that if we don't draw a line in the sand there will soon be a third column where the degraded 'now' will become the longed for nirvana of yesteryear.

And none of this is to say that you can't lead a happy life, just a slightly more frugal and tired one!

[BusBoy]

I do hope that 170to5 is a wind up!

[WX Man]

Do I work for a good company?

No. They are bunch of :mad:, and I'm this close to quitting aviation altogether.

I liked reading JG77's post though.

[Al Murdoch]

I don't know a single person in aviation who has had a different career beforehand that wants to go back to it. On the other hand I hear many people saying they want to get out - but they have usually had no experience of real life and work before. A 25 year old FO even told me once that he wanted to go and work in the City of London because it was less stressful. I couldn't help laughing. I mean, I know the guy was just naive, but really? Less stressful?:ugh:
I love my job, it's taken a lot of hard work to get where I am. I fly a wide body on a wide variety of routes and for the actual amount of "work" that I do, I am handsomely rewarded for it. Many of my non-flying colleagues would love to do what I do and I remind myself of that quite often. Yes it's not perfect and there are things that I would change about it, but net result = I am happy.

[FANS]

Brilliantly well put Al Murdoch.

[fireflybob]

I used to work for a great company in the 1980s called Orion Airways.

Since then it's been a progressive spiral downwards!

I quit 3 years before I needed to and now work for the greatest company ever......ME!

[PW127-B]

I think this is a good opportunity to realize that we ( at least I) get to do what I love and make a living out of it.
I work for a great company, I'm 24 and have flown the Fokker 50 and currently the A320 family, I did not pay to fly , and I get to fly to a lot of places. The layovers are good, and the salary is also good, do I wish it was any better? Sure, but we all do.
I'm moving to the heavy probably a year from now and expect to fly the heavy a lot.
We do work a lot over here , but I think every body all over the world also does, although management could be a bit better minded towards us , I think I got it pretty good over here.
Sure there are a lot of things we could complain about but I realized that I have a good job , there might be better ones out there , but this is the one I like.

[JB007]

Worked for a great little company with Fireflybob called Excalibur! That was in the early 90's! Approaching my 23rd year in UK airlines, 10 years flying professionally and as many airlines on my CV - I can officially use the phrase "ahhhh...the good old days..."

It was all so much better....

But I'm actually generally happy with my lot...mainly because I've seen the best and worst all this has to offer - and I enjoy giggling at it all!! Take it seriously?!? Mmmm...

I would not wish to be starting out now as a cadet/low experienced pilot...it's pants! But the entertainment value emmense and wouldn't want to do anything else!

[fireflybob]

Worked for a great little company with Fireflybob called Excalibur! That was in the early 90's! Approaching my 23rd year in UK airlines, 10 years flying professionally and as many airlines on my CV - I can officially use the phrase "ahhhh...the good old days..."

JB 007, yes that was a good one too!

Agree 100% with your other comments too!

[flarepilot]

things were better 25 years ago, but I do work for darn good company. part of the problem is that upstart carriers cut costs by cutting standards of living for pilots (money, days off etc)...so our line had to cut to compete.

if you work for a crap carrier, fine...but you are part of the problem in pulling everyone else down.

I could have done slightly better, but I could have done much much worse.

so, I consider myself lucky.

[matkat]

As an engineer ( not hands on but in the office) I work for a helicopter operater out of Aberdeen have been a contractor for over 30 years I am now an employee and really loving it yes money is far lower but I am 55 and the pension, holidays and the private medical are a huge bonus so for me it has been great and will stay with my new employers until retirement but who knows when that will be lol:confused:

[AJA402]

Al Murdoch said it so well.

I have to agree with everything you said.

From my side of the world, Africa things are interesting and challenging in their own way. The current operator I'm working for has lots of bad rep. However they always pay on time, I've never had a problem asking for leave, the crew are all great to work with and that adds a great deal to the job satisfaction.

Salary is never enough is it? However we are compensated by not working much at all. In fact we are almost guaranteed to have every weekend off :)

Flarepilot your closing line is excellent! I could also have done much much worse.

Overall I'm am happy where I am.

[Mach E Avelli]

I have worked for good and bad companies. The baddies all had a few things in common:

- Senior management who looked after their own interests at all costs.
- Marketing/Sales people held in very high esteem, regardless of productivity; big budget for advertising and marketing activities.
- Operations and maintenance people tolerated only (and barely) for their essential skills; minimal budget for training and maintenance
- Aircraft with repetitive defects.
- Always short of crew due to poor planning or inadequate budgeting; consequent pressures to bust duty limits and give up leave or days off.
- Every opportunity to erode pilot terms and conditions taken by Management on the basis that other pilots could come in and do the job for less (sadly dogs do eat dogs).
- Bills not paid on time, or at all.
- As the inevitable bankruptcy approached, dishonest dealings with staff entitlements, evasion of tax liabilities.

The good guys also had several things in common:

- Senior management took a genuine interest in ensuring that staff entitlements were met first, creditors next.
- Operations and maintenance budgets set and honoured.
- Defects cleared as soon as reasonably possible.
- Usually enough crew to do the job; when temporary shortages required extra input, a program to restore days off by adding to annual leave, or financial recompense.
- Firm but fair contract conditions - all parties expected to keep their side of the deal.

I am indeed fortunate to be dealing with such an organisation now.

[Denti]

Good or bad? Dunno really, the money is not really great nor bad, around 100k € a year as a normal FO, rising to around 115k in three years, that's nearly three times the average wage in my country. If i happen to get that elusive command it will raise by around 20 to 30k. Rostering is quite often bad, but we do work on that and it is getting better. There is always the possibility to call in sick or unfit to fly without any repercussion anyway. Since there was a change in management nearly 10 months back the attitude towards pilots has changed quite a lot and things are changing for the better.

I have worked in IT before and quite honestly my current lifestyle, while sometimes erratic, is a lot better than in that line of work. Around 11 days off a month, quite often up to 14 days, no work to take home (except for my second job as a union rep) and not too many nights in a hotel at the moment makes for quite a good living.

All in all, despite all the moaning it is not bad, especially if considering the state of the economy and that i supposedly work for one of the, well, worst airlines in Europe.

[Sam Ting Wong]

The problem is that as a newjoiner you will nowadays usually sign a different contract than your coworkers did a few years ago.

I work for Cathay, which certainly was a great airline a few years ago,
but has terrible conditions for anyone signing up now...

[fireflybob]

no work to take home

Denti, I agree with all of your post apart from this bit!

I don't know about other pilots but I used to do quite a bit of homework looking ahead at charts for next rostered duty, reading manuals etc (not all the time I hasten to add).

I think quite a few pilots do a lot of preparation when they are not on duty - not technically legally required but, if you are a professional, very much part of the job.

[lederhosen]

Denti just for clarification are you saying that your FOs gross between 8,000 and 9,500 euros a month? It is not a particularly well kept secret that the union has done a good job. But that seems a good wage even if you factor in the risk that it may not continue indefinitely.

[carbheatout]

the money is not really great nor bad, around 100k € a year as a normal FO

Seems ok to me. Don't know many who earn that as a 'normal' employee in or outside aviation.

[Denti]

@fireflybob in the beginning i used to do that as well, however our route network isn't all that big so i do know all airports we fly to for quite some time now. Manuals, yes, of course we will have the odd changes, about every week. However that is something i take with me when downroute, and then we have our scheduled hometraining days, four times a year at least, which are used for that, besides doing all the open CBT courses.

@lederhosen, in the top end if averaged over a year, yes. However it is not as simple as that and quite some part of it can be a lump sum payment at the end of the year if rostering wasn't clever enough. Starting pay for new joiners (type rating funded by the company of course, some even get two of them) is around 55k, so there is quite a bit of a change over time.

[pull-up-terrain]

Sometimes I wish I could wind my clock back to the 70's and the 80's

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i4eaDVjStH4

[tankiebootneckdad]

Is this restricted to airlines, or does it involve other arms of the aviation industry?

[pilotman330]

Beside the fact that Ryanair is killing the aviation industry I think that pilots haves good working conditions 5 ON 4 OFF, jumpseats, money is not too bad.

On the other side, they got a month with no salary and they can be kicked out at short notice since these guy's are freelance.

What I'd like to say is that as long as you're flying with them, life is quite ok.

There is still some good conditions out there but these are more and more difficult to find.

Flarepilot is right, a lot of us are 'still' lucky!

Some airlines results are going down and some are just incredibly rising, especially in the cargo airlines.